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Imperium can be summed up in essentially power bestowed to various officials to act within their sphere of influence of their position, yes? Also, wasn't the technical legal power of the emperor in part granted through not only various powers like the tribunical power or the office of pontifex maximus but by being granted a wide scope of imperium in regards to how far his powers from these offices could extend?
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Jul 17, 2012 06:45
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euphronius posted:Everyone knew the earth was round. It is obvious. The flat earth stuff is some weird Renaissance meme. Not even Renaissance, more so Victorian revisionism. Heck think about the most famous voyage ever, Columbus gets hired by the government to find a sea route to China, you're not going to China on a flat Earth. Most of his men didn't want to turn back because they were worried about falling off the Earth, they were worried about starving to death.
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Jul 17, 2012 23:50
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Paxicon posted:I dont think it was so much a formal tradition as on a triumph to triumph basis. Caesars troops sang a song that went something like "Romans, lock up your daughters! Our generals bald, but he'll gently caress anything that moves!" Also according to Suetonius, they also chanted a joke about the widespead rumor on how Caesar had a relationship with King Nicomedes of Bithynia, and preferred to be on the receiving end of sex. Gaul was brought to shame by Caesar; By King Nicomedes, he. Here comes Caesar, wreathed in triumph For his Gallic victory! Nicomedes wears no laurels, Though the greatest of the three.
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Jul 18, 2012 16:45
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CAESAR DIES??? Welp, now what am I gonna watch. I won't usurp the cheese on the question since he can probably point out every little technicality but in general the politics leading up the Caesar's death seem pretty accurate. Heck, they don't even make him dictator for life right away(which would've been the easy thing to do since most viewers beyond history nerds would just accept that's how it was since they know Caesar as a dictator) and differentiate when he was appointed dictator for 10 years and when he was granted the power of dictator for life the month before his death. Actually I just watched episode one of season two earlier. I think my favorite thing is the smug way Antony says "Aw, the lictors guild?" when Brutus lists them as one of the groups on his side. Antony gives no fucks. e: Actually, the most amusing line, and a nice little show of how culture changes over time, in the last episode when the family is sitting down to dinner and they're joking about marriage, and in this case marrying for love, and Niobe says "Love each other from the start? Well that would be a strange marriage." quote:Did Romans trade much with the people beyond their borders, aside from to the east? I mean like the Germanic tribes, w/e the gently caress lived north of Hadrian's Wall, Scandinavians, Africans on the western edge of Africa? Sure, on different levels. But as was said much earlier, if you wanted the good poo poo, you went east. But it wasn't just some rabid no man's land that no one ventured into past the empire borders. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 25, 2012 |
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Jul 25, 2012 01:05
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roadhead posted:Did he really select 100 new senators from the Gauls and Celts? Was there a plebe (not Vorenus obviously) that he raised to the senate? I found it interesting that he seemed to be trying to make a better Rome that would endure forever and not necessarily grab all the power for him-self. I can't speak for the Gauls and Celts, but Caesar did expand the Senate greatly to around 900 members I believe from 300.(Augustus later reduced it to 600). Plebeians were in fact already in the Senate, but they were usually from high standing Pleb families, Caesar appointing someone like Vorenus may have been a bit of a shock.(Though considering Vorenus was made a magistrate and that was usually the stepping stone to the Senate as well as other high positions, who knows, but I suppose Senators would find it offensive that a low Pleb who had only been a magistrate for a few months be appointed to the Senate). This is actually why most Plebeian tribunes weren't exactly leading the people's revolution. Most were from well off and politically connected families who were cozy with the Senate because they knew people in the Senate, and would in fact probably be there themselves later on. Sometimes you got some rockin tribunes though like the Gracchi brothers, but then the Senate, both patricians and plebs would do what they do best, cry tyrant. I like what someone said many pages ago, the fall of the Roman republic can in part be summed up in 'The Senate that cried tyrant'. Low plebs could rise up though if they had enough personality, Cicero was kind of no one who rose up, I mean not slums of Rome nobody, but not from a patrician family or a pleb family of importance.
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Jul 25, 2012 20:35
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Well, at least the rich back then had some kind of societal pressure to actually do a few things for people in general, fund the maintenance of some aqueducts, sponsor a day of games, whatever. Our rich have become a bit more Ayn Rand tinted since then. However, from the Gracchi brothers to a millennium later in the eastern empire up till today, legally trying to get the rich to part with a small bit of their holdings or say pay taxes could in fact lead to your downfall. Oh how some things never change.
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Aug 19, 2012 21:05
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Yeah but most of them are forced into it through law, there's no "You need to be a noble patrician and do what's best for Rome" type of atmosphere anymore, which to be fair is also in large part due to 1/2 the non rich in the country screaming STOP PUNISHING SUCCESS For you see, some day I shall be a tribune and then a Senator as well, and I'll be damned if I have to fund a temple. I'm just currently a temporary embarrassed proletarii.
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Aug 19, 2012 23:19
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Jazerus posted:I think you're overgeneralizing when you talk about a broad societal pressure on the rich to do things for society - this was really more of an obligation if you wanted to gain political power, not something you were expected to do as a rich private citizen really. But this is kind of the point actually. As is said above, it is pretty ridiculous to compare Romans to us, or anyone else for that matter, but one thing that was said earlier in the thread is Roman politics could be summed up in what was good for Rome was good for you. Just put this into perspective, the current main contender for the highest elected office of the United States is a man through his whole life basically did things that helped ruin the lives of plenty of Americans. Romney was what I was originally thinking of when I thought of that because the US has reached a point where "gently caress you, got mine", and selling off the nation to the highest bidder can in fact be the platform of the man running for the highest office of the land. I mean Romney and his ilk have never needed to pretend to even have any sense of public duty to America and yet it works to get him elected. Though this isn't even a now vs them comparison, could this man really even really be a serious contender for high office in any other nation. But yeah, it is a bad and over simplified comparison. One thing it is good on though, money shall always be able to acquire someone vast political power.
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Aug 20, 2012 00:27
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Weren't the Romans able to reverse blindness? I remember watching a documentary about this and it was weird as gently caress. Fromage could you comment on this (if you're back)? This wouldn't exactly be too surprising actually. There are forms of blindness like hysterical blindness that are not permanent and can be cured. I imagine after a while they stumbled onto some plants that did whatever to relax people enough to make blindness go away. But, to be more practical and something that was probably more common, the Romans(as well as other ancients) did in fact carry about cataract surgery, and cataracts are still among the leading cause of vision failing in people. So yeah, the Romans among others were probably able to reverse some blindness, it's actually not that radical though, it in fact pre dates Rome http://www.rila.co.uk/issues/free/001/2001/v4n2/p61_65/p61_65.html Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 21, 2012 |
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Aug 21, 2012 18:30
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For what Wikipedia is worth, the story on him is pretty interesting to anyone else who may have interest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Calpurnius_Bibulus Roman politics 
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Aug 24, 2012 14:39
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Agesilaus posted:
Why? As someone who is fascinated with the Titanic, this reminds me of when people speak of the ship and always imagine if they could go back on it they'd be riding high in first class, walking down the grand stairway to dinner, never a 3rd class passenger who can't speak English or shoveling coal in the boiler rooms.
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Aug 26, 2012 20:12
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Don't just assume probably horse racing, especially in Rome itself. The Circus Maximum was huge, could seat anywhere between 100,000-150,000 people, and the imperial palace eventually bordered it. The colored teams were huge deals, almost political factions in their own right minus the politics even into the Byzantine era.(See the Nika riots and the giant hippodrome in Constantinople). Sometimes there would even be politics, some emperors made it clear what color they supported at the races. Popular and important enough that this dude may be the wealthiest athlete in history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Appuleius_Diocles Greeks/Romans had their own strategy game like chess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrunculi Dice were also popular, I would assume because then like now they make a good gambling game. Don't forget the public baths and theater which would be popular leisure activities. And GF can take it from here.
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Aug 28, 2012 03:38
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Frosted Flake posted:That's really interesting. Did Green and Blue have different political views I believe reading once Justinian was a supporter of the Blues, but at the time obviously neither of the teams were in much favor of Justinian. I believe what started the whole riot was the fact a couple of members from both factions had been arrested and were due to be hung, the crowd that day ask for mercy, there was no visible response, and as the race went on the chants against each team threw against each other eventually turned into one overwhelming chorus against Justinian. The teams may have been political in the sense it might be known who say the emperor or other top nobility, generals or whatever supported, but they definitely didn't hold some kins of set political views. Basically, if there is one thing that hasn't changed in 2,000 years, people hold seriously deep and irrational attachments to their sports teams. Vigilance posted:If I'm not mistaken, Justinian wanted to say gently caress this and flee during that riot but his wife convinced him to stay because fleeing would basically mean giving up his power as emperor. Theodora had also risen from stripper to empress and I would think at that point was going to die as an empress. Theodora was such a badass, one of the most powerful woman in Rome's 2,000 year history, possibly even more so than say Zenobia or Irene who actually held power due to her influence over Justinian and his power at the time.
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Aug 28, 2012 15:39
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Awesome thread, thank you. Roman Civilization by Naphtali Lewis Meyer Reinhold. It's divided into two sourcebooks, one for the Republic and one for the Empire. They're not specific on daily life itself, rather they cover almost all aspects of Roman society using original sources, but this includes of course many aspects of normal life for Romans. e: Also, if you want to go further into time, "Byzantium, The Empire of New Rome" by Cyril Mango offers a great insight into the culture and mindsets of the eastern empire. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 28, 2012 |
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Aug 28, 2012 18:06
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In regards to the equites and merchant class, wasn't one of the problems there in terms of Senate membership the fact that technically under law Senators weren't allowed to engage in trade? So nominating a man with 20 vessels sailing to India every year might be a bit of a political problem.
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Aug 29, 2012 00:54
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physeter posted:"Engages in trade" was a smear....mercantile pursuits were for money-grubbing plebs not men of property. I guess this attitude carried over into eastern Rome. I remember now that you said it how in Cyril Mango's book he talks of the same attitude, in terms of them being money grubbers, in regards to merchants who came to Constantinople.(I assume elsewhere too, but the topic at that point was trade inside the city)
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Aug 29, 2012 16:05
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By the time Rome really gets control of the east, it already has the entire Mediterranean under it's control, and quickly gets both shores of the Bosporus under it's control for a very long time. Meanwhile Crimea was for a while a Roman client state, and even when it wasn't, who else is it going to trade with in any major fashion, Rome controls what may as well be most of the world. And it's not like it has a massive navy that might come through the Dardanelles and gently caress up Rome's shipping. Meanwhile since the Roman state was the only major actor in town, it's not like the medieval era where the Eastern empire would just funnel all trade into the city before letting it flow to western states. I can't imagine Byzantium would have any major strategic value during say the Pax Romana era.
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Sep 28, 2012 03:32
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The history channel is apparently having a "Caligula, 1,400 days of terror" thing coming up. Given how the channel has been in the past few years, can we expect it's going to be Suetonius on steroids
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Oct 8, 2012 05:21
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Grand Fromage posted:gently caress you, got mine is the way American society works. Fixed that  So has anyone been watching the Caligula thing? I just realized it was on but they're way into it. e: They were just talking about the fact ancient historians often exaggerated like hell because they didn't like him, so it can't be all bad right? Right?? Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Oct 10, 2012 |
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Oct 10, 2012 03:32
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I'm still pretty surprised there's yet to be a Hollywood movie on the stealing of silk from the Chinese. Romans? Massive spy operation? Evil Chinese we must steal secrets from? It has every aspect of a blockbuster.
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Nov 12, 2012 03:21
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Grand Fromage posted:There are some letters left from Egyptian rulers sending pleas for help back to the pharaoh, they're very apocalyptic and haunting.  Do you or anyone else happen know of any online links for any of them?
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Nov 14, 2012 03:21
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Well now, that is a bit creepy. It just keeps on going down the rabbit hole, mystery collapse compounded by the mysterious Sea Peoples no one can quite identify.
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Nov 14, 2012 03:55
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I just saw this when I went to NPR and figured it'd be good to post it here. Apparently they're building a new rail line in Istanbul and stumbled upon all kinds of ships from Roman times. It doesn't appear to be new news though beyond mainstream news sources reporting it, I guess the first things started being found in 2006. http://www.npr.org/2012/11/30/166244488/in-istanbul-a-byzantine-era-fleet-surfaces-again Above anything, as an American, I'm just fascinated with the idea a city can construct something but have to continually keep stopping because there's 1,500 year old history that was found and needs to preserved. I mean there's plenty of native American finds here, just not on the same scale as the Roman world. The Romans were probably pretty impressed they had a solid network and hold on an area stretching from Turkey to Britain, and centuries later I'm still kind of awestruck in the fact if you wind up in the right place, people in both Britain and Turkey can unearth a whole bunch of Roman stuff. e: For that matter, Roman poo poo has been unearthed as far away as the far east, but that was never part of the empire, except maybe in some people's campaigns in games.
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Dec 1, 2012 05:32
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In regards to Theodora, it may be because she was a monophysite Christian, not the state sanctioned Orthodox version of the time. Though maybe not, I have no idea what side Procopius was on. That had to be an awkward couples situation, if I recall reading correctly in a Cyril Mango book, Justinian often persecuted the monophysites while Theodora openly gave them aid. That's some awkward dinner conversation.
Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 22:06
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I think people forget that outside the Roman borders was in fact not a wilderness of just tribes in huts or whatever. There were civilizations that had traders and rich people just like Rome, and if you're bordering a superpower, it bodes well to learn their language and gain favor in their rich circles.(or just find ways to suck silver/gold out of them). Although I do wonder how the the Roman diplomatic mission to China in 166 went. They received an audience with the Han Emperor supposedly, but given this was the first recorded direct contact, I can't imagine the Romans were too up to date on......what was spoken in China at the time? Nor could I imagine the Han imperial court having anyone around who knew really any Latin.
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Dec 24, 2012 07:07
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Grand Fromage posted:I would wager they used merchants. Maybe there wasn't anyone who knew both Latin and Chinese, but you could've had a team. Latin to Persian to Chinese or Latin to some Indian language to Chinese or whatever. I have the most wonderful mental images of the Roman ambassadors meeting the Han emperor, and in between them is a line of 7 people needed to translate. It just becomes this high level diplomatic game of telephone which by the end of it the Emperor is told the Roman ambassadors are asking if he happens to have any extra apples which they can use to wipe their noses with
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Dec 24, 2012 07:20
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WoodrowSkillson posted:There were also the royal families who often had women in positions of near absolute power, albeit through their sons. and husbands  One of history's ultimate power couples. I like to think the story of Justinian about to flee from the royal dock during the Nika riots and Theodora stopping him by saying "Purple is a good color to be buried in" or whatever is true for the simple fact at that point forward I'm pretty sure Theodora would be wearing the pants in that relationship. It's kind of hard to say no to your wife after she just stopped you from going down in history as a disgraced and deposed coward.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:48
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sullat posted:Another story is that, during the riots, the mob grabbed some old Senator and hailed him as emperor. Justinian was gonna pardon him, but Theodora was like "only one person alive can wear the purple." And so they executed him. Along with a hippodrome full of people supposedly. Theodora, Belisarius and Narses take no poo poo, Justinian, may or may not take some poo poo, at least up to that point. Amused to Death fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 18:25
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For starters, you should go google/wikipedia "Greek fire". Ramming is for the uncultured, the Romans will just burn you alive with a substance that water couldn't put out. Don't quote me on this, but I believe reading once old texts say aside from sand, people at the time found that urine also was able to put out Greek fire, further confusing modern people in trying to figure out what the hell it was exactly.
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Feb 3, 2013 18:05
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Random question since I realized tonight when it came up during the superbowl that I don't think I've ever actually heard the term spoken. Does anyone know for sure how to say Nika in regards to the Nika riots. I've always pronounced it has neye-ka, but I realized I have no idea.
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Feb 4, 2013 06:25
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Bubonic plague as well. Isolated cases still happen, but it's exceedingly rare, and very treatable if you have access to antibiotics. This compared to when it'd occasionally wipe out 1/4 to a 1/3 of the population in just a year or two.
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Feb 24, 2013 02:01
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physeter posted:(Years later some punk tried the same trick, but Cicero remembered the stories and remarked that the new lawyer wasn’t Crassus Orator, and that the new defendant’s scars were very small and likely from womens’ teeth.) "Sir, I knew Marcus Antonius, and you sir are no Marcus Antonius."
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Mar 5, 2013 19:30
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Shy posted:New Guinea has 20 times less people than Nigeria with over 800 languages. 800 sounds impressive in verbal format. It's even more impressive when on a map though http://www.muturzikin.com/cartesoceanie/oceanie2.htm
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Mar 8, 2013 19:01
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It's almost surely not true, but, one of the stores for Valerian is the molten gold being poured down his throat. In the 0.2% it is true, that's a pretty epic/terrible way to be killed.
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Mar 15, 2013 21:28
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Well, I remember of Formosus, whose corpse was put on trial after he had died. That's always a bit weird.
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Mar 15, 2013 21:52
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According to ABC news, Pontius Pilate was a Roman emperor who crucified Jesus. Tiberius is going to be pissed when he hears about this attempted usurper! 
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Mar 29, 2013 23:49
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If you want more, well, sensationalism, definitely go with Suetonius. Suetonius was a gossip and as someone called him dozens of pages ago, a great mix of history and tabloid. The Twelve Caesars is a fun book.
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Mar 30, 2013 05:26
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Kassad posted:I agree with your main point that bringing down the Persian empire was something huge but I think you're massively oversimplifying history by ignoring that it was almost 2000 years after Alexander that Europeans actually started dominating the rest of the planet (starting with the colonisation of the Americas after 1492). Even the Roman empire didn't have that much influence outside of its borders. Arguably at the time no country had much influence outside its borders beyond whether or not they instilled enough fear to keep neighboring people's friendly enough to tow your line. I think the point though is no nation in Europe at the time period had any kind of widespread renown for power on the scale empires in Egypt, the middle east and Asia had accumulated. Alexander changed that. Rome changed that as well. Rome may not have been able to colonize Australia, but it united a huge amount of area under one administration, it was still a superpower in terms of its time whose only global rival was China. You can see it in how far Roman trade has gone, permanent trading posts in India, Roman glass showing up in Japan. Even the myths the Chinese and Romans came up with for each other. GF probably knows exactly what it was, but if I recall during the empire days, the Chinese thought that Rome may have been a land ruled by a body of elected enlightened philosophers and who never went to war. Point being though when a superpower you don't even have direct contact with is making up all kinds of good ridiculous myths about you, you're probably doing pretty well for yourself.
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Apr 2, 2013 14:52
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Grand Fromage posted:It's so weird to think about people inventing the concept of armies and organized warfare. Maybe far into the future when historians are looking at our ancient societies, someone on the SomethingAwful forums version 4,204 will say "It's so weird to think these people actually spent a lot of money on having some portion of their nation get weapons and go off and kill people from other nations" 
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Apr 8, 2013 03:53
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It seems like in Rome and other cities with aqueducts bringing in thousands of gallons of fresh water a minute to public fountains, it's really more about a love of wine. It's really not that different from today. How many people after work go to a pub or go home and drink? I don't mean get hammered, just enough to keep a good buzz going and conversation flowing. A substantial part of the population. People love booze, the only thing that changes is the preferred variation of it.
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Apr 10, 2013 16:25
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