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Octy
Apr 1, 2010

So Gore Vidal's Julian is pretty good.

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Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Jerusalem posted:

Saw this linked in the Political Cartoons thread of all places:

Roman villa unearthed 'by chance' in Wiltshire garden

Very cool story, the thing that really gets to me though is that apparently a large stone that the family were using as a planter for flowers turns out to have been a child's coffin :stare:

Ugh, I wish I lived in Europe just for the slim chance of finds like this on my property. Maybe they'll find a copy of Suetonius' Lives of Famous Whores?

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

I finished reading Richard Fidler's Ghost Empire on Byzantium and now I have a hankering for more of the same. Google points me to John Julius Norwich's history of the Byzantine Empire, but I thought it best to come here for recommendations as well.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

fantastic in plastic posted:

"As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood." -some guy, I guess

Poor Enoch Powell. Should have stuck to teaching classics at my alma mater.

But yes, I've only managed to find Norwich's single volume history which might be the way to go for now. Try it before I commit to a trilogy and all that.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

JaucheCharly posted:

Nice dog.

Anyway, I've got some time to read, please recommend some books. I've got SPQR, so no need to put that on the list. Maybe something about the eastern part of the empire.

I received Tim Whitmarsh's Battling the Gods: Atheism in the Ancient World for Christmas, which has turned out to be precisely the book I never knew I wanted. Its focus is on Greece but it extends to about the fourth or fifth century AD, so plenty of interaction with Rome if that's more your cup of tea.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

It might have been another thread but thanks whoever recommended Colleen McCullough's Rome series. I haven't read such good historical fiction in years.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Jerusalem posted:

Yeah it's an absolute blast, even if she can't help but justify everything Caesar does.

I love her Cicero, he's such a nerd :allears:

I'm about to start reading the second book. I'm not all that familiar with the Marius/Sulla period, so I don't know how accurate it is, but it's been great. I love Scaurus.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Since we're on the topic of Egypt, this popped up on my Facebook just now. http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/02...ional-identity/

quote:

On a cool Sunday evening in March, a geochemist named Sun Weidong gave a public lecture to an audience of laymen, students, and professors at the University of Science and Technology in Hefei, the capital city of the landlocked province of Anhui in eastern China. But the professor didn’t just talk about geochemistry. He also cited several ancient Chinese classics, at one point quoting historian Sima Qian’s description of the topography of the Xia empire — traditionally regarded as China’s founding dynasty, dating from 2070 to 1600 B.C. “Northwards the stream is divided and becomes the nine rivers,” wrote Sima Qian in his first century historiography, the Records of the Grand Historian. “Reunited, it forms the opposing river and flows into the sea.”

In other words, “the stream” in question wasn’t China’s famed Yellow River, which flows from west to east. “There is only one major river in the world which flows northwards. Which one is it?” the professor asked. “The Nile,” someone replied. Sun then showed a map of the famed Egyptian river and its delta — with nine of its distributaries flowing into the Mediterranean. This author, a researcher at the same institute, watched as audience members broke into smiles and murmurs, intrigued that these ancient Chinese texts seemed to better agree with the geography of Egypt than that of China.

I don't know enough about Egyptian or Chinese history to say whether it's all just BS, but it makes for an interesting read if you have nothing else to do.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

sounds delicious. Who doesn't love a good gruel?

Jokes aside, it is pretty awesome that we have an actual cookbook from all that time ago.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

Some flamingo brains would perk him right up. It's the Roman way!

Ugh. It's the tongue you want, not the brain, you barbarian.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Hey Ancient History thread! My mom's looking for a decent pop-history book on the Punic Wars. Do y'all have any recommendations? She's particularly interested in accounts of Hannibal's march into Italy.


I hope this hasn't been discussed lately, but I'm approximately 500 pages behind on this thread.

Livy's Ab Urbe Condita is pretty good and has remained pop-history for 2,000 years.

As for my own question, having read McCullough's second book: was Sulla really as bad as she makes out, i.e. an actual murderer and guy who slept with his stepmum?

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Epicurius posted:

They're good, but they're not as good as the people who like them think they are, if that makes sense. Her biggest problem is that she has characters she likes and characters she doesn't like. (She likes Marius, until Caesar comes along, doesn't like Sulla, likes Caesar, doesn't like Pompey or Cato, likes Octavian, doesn't like Marcus Antonius, etc), and tends to make the characters she likes pretty wonderful and the characters she doesn't like pretty horrible. You read it and you get the impression that the only reason anybody ever opposed Caesar was just out of pique, and that Octavian was a super-genius who had worked out pretty much all of Roman history in his head when he was born.

The books remind me of ASOIAF. They're not very well written or edited, but she is fantastic at developing characters to the point it feels like you have actually met these people.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

cheetah7071 posted:

130k years ago is a really really long time ago. Checking the wiki page, it isn't even universally agreed that Homo Sapiens had left Africa by then. Assuming the dating is accurate (the article makes the claim that the marks themselves were dated, not just the tusk, but I always thought you couldn't do that and that was one of the major weaknesses of dating technology) this is really cool. And in California too, not just the relatively easier to reach Alaska.

It'd certainly beat the general consensus about the Aborigines being in Australia for 40-60k years. Even the earliest estimate of their arrival is about 100k years ago.

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Octy
Apr 1, 2010

Forbes posted:


Although we often romanticize the bare marble of ancient sculpture today, most of these specimens were in fact painted in bright shades of blue, red, yellow, brown and many other hues. Over the past few decades, scientists have worked diligently to study the often-minute traces of paint, inlay and gold leaf used on ancient statues and to use digital technologies to restore them to their original polychromy.

As this history of painted statuary returns to view, it brings with it an unsettling question: if we know these statues were polychromatic, why do they remain lily white in our popular imagination?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drsara...d/#6d47dff75ad5

Short read but interesting. I admit despite my education the imagery of white, rather than coloured statuary usually comes to mind when I think about the ancient world. But because of that same education I know there was an enormous diversity of colour in the ancient world and I've never seen the Romans as being just 'white'.

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