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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
parthia shot was used by the parthians, scythians, huns, magyars, mongols and the comanche. that one single tactic along with others prolly conquered an appreciable fraction of all world conquest

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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
training accidents are not dumb, and jousts started as explicitly training

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Bongo Bill posted:

Y'all need Wittgenstein.

the world is everything that is der Käse

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
ancient history thread / bfc bad with money thread crossover

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

kiminewt posted:

This is more related to the pre-cheese topic and I'm sure this has been talked about but what's this thread's opinion on The Dawn of Everything?

I'm about halfway through. It's interesting but its points are a bit muddled I feel.

if a popularizing book has an unqualified noun like "everything" on it it can't be any good

graeber was an economic historian and anthropologist in the vein of sahlins et al, so despite the title it can't really escape the economic history and anthropology

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
sanctioned legalized magic first, philosophy second. or maybe third or fourth after being a place to enforce elite power and a place to shove spare elites

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
egyptology exists as a separate field because the ancient egyptians ability to keep stuff (what with the endless desert mere feet from settlements) was head and shoulders above any other ancient polity, so we have like random rear end receipts for poo poo in new kingdom egypt whereas we have substantively nothing for far far younger stuff in mesoamerica forex

so its a lotta evidentiary selection effect too

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
The Other Place Where We Have Random rear end Receipts For Stuff

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
prehistory is defined as the time we dont have records for, so saying "do we have records for this prehistoric thing" is like asking "i need the recording of that unrecorded conversation"

now, we have archaeology of systematic group violence from 13 millennia ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1266108/

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

WoodrowSkillson posted:

yeah it was not a good system it is just better that sending all the poor to die. A bunch of farmers were bankrupted by the siege of Veii because it went so long that they missed multiple harvest seasons.

the american military, which gets the exploiting the poor reputation for some reason, is marginally richer than the general american population. not like by a huge amount but they are richer

this is almost certainly confounded by the fact that they all have jobs, the military being a job

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
you mean adm. mahans book on it

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
presented without comment

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/16jlqp9/there_will_be_no_more_roman_empire_questions_post/

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
bit difficult to call em maps when they dont have any pictoral content

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 26, 2023

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
yeah, pretty much

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
is charcoal burned? burned is a word for literally thousands of weird little oxidation reactions, the set of which is completely different at different levels of oxygen

you can write out the chemical equations for pure hydrocarbons relatively easily but that aint no pure hydrocarbon

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
oxygen is the main thing, you could do it yourself if you shove things under a pile o dirt or something

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
always seen it as face-gently caress

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Elissimpark posted:

*AD 69 and some schlub out in Spain pays for his bread and milk with a Galba gold coin and gets his change in Vespasian silver.

"Seriously?"

people who are not like, serious corporate entities or states or parastate things or otherwise institutions in themselves do not pay for things in gold coins. they used the unit of account, sure

1 gold aureus was priced at 8 grams of gold, rough actual gold content 7 grams so seignorage was a seventhish. the focus of the intense debasement was mainly the silver denarius so they would have been pissed off for not getting enough change, mostly

original denarius : aureus exchange rate was 25 to 1. constantine put out a solidus that replaced the denarius by 312 ad, which for reference was 4.5 grams of gold and worth 275000 denarii, for how fuckin debased they got the denarius

prolly the most used-qua-used gold currency was millennia later in england, the angel and the noble coins, and they were still like, for buying cows or land or something of that nobleman-only nature

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Nov 13, 2023

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
classic move is that you force taxes to be paid in coinage so they see it at least once a year

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
the romans knew exactly what africa was - the roman province w/ tunis in it, lol



not their fault we moderns made the definition gape

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
daedalus

archimedes was a real dude

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Benagain posted:

Kill everyone who knew about the grave other than you, bing bong so simple

thats what genghis khan apparently did and it worked great

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
we have no idea where he was buried. it worked great

might be by a holy mountain, might be in a riverbed, we dont know poo poo

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
the only nation which never, ever does local translations out of ideological reasons is north korea

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
that's my standard response nowadays to peeps needing a theodicy. "why does god let evil poo poo happen?" "god is basically a ball of every god the hebrews had. they had some trouble formally rolling in the apotropaic demons like pazuzu, who you made sacrifice to to avoid falling off of cliffs, avoid unwanted guests and anyone fuckin w pregnant women, and others like him"

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

euphronius posted:

Why would anyone expect to understand god .

thats some orthodoxy poo poo speaking. that wasn't a serious factor for mass religion until the 1500s AD. religion was sanctioned magic until they figured out magic doesn't exist

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Gaius Marius posted:

It does if you believe

and its gotta be sanctioned! that's the difference between religion and witchcraft!

skasion posted:

Whoa now. God’s last soliloquy in Job is all about man’s eternal but groundless expectation to know what God’s up to. “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.”

book of job was written 6th century bc, during the last stages of the katamari damacy ball-rolling, where indeed they were having trouble rolling up the apotropaic demons because the demons were usually considered to be evil spirits you're buying protection off of, mob boss-style

or consider zoroastrianism, which indeed has much less of a problem w/ theodicy because they did the katamari ball-rolling but into two (and a few more) balls, where all the good in the world is from ahura mazda and all the evil is with angra mainyu. and they fight

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jan 17, 2024

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Nessus posted:

If magic is fake, how does the Emperor keep the Astronomican lit? Checkmate Horusists

40k poo poo is way, way closer to orthopractic religion than it is orthodoxy. those demons are deffo actually gonna come if you slaughter 888 warriors and present their skulls to the blood god, ok?

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
christian fundamentalism is younger than electric lighting

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
whig history predominates in times of plenty and peace, and the anti-whig history (not to be confused with non-whig history) predominates in times of chaos and war. just retrojection of present concerns into history

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
erastothenes of cyrene. also made his namesake numerical sieve, which is a great example of a mathematics thing that literally took 2 millennia to be useful

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
confucian intellectual ideology also shits on merchants, like many other landowning aristo ideologies

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
they're prolly referencing piraha counting, not any ancient stuff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_language#Lexicon

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
the counting stuff is deffo colored by daniel everett's 40-year slow-burning vicious academia war against chomsky

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
chomsky's overarching linguistic theory of everything states that peeps have a universal grammar that has an innate (and only innate - unlearnable) capacity to do syntactic stuff only, because semantics stuff is meaningless. the essential biological thing about the grammatical structures is that grammar is always recursive, along with a bunch of other stuff. everett went to the jungle and according to him found out that piraha has no embedded clause structure, no recursion in the grammar, none of the syntactic stuff that chomsky was insistent was the innate hallmark of all human language. after 40 years of arguing over whether one's wrong or not they hate each other personally and would frankly kill each other in a knife-fight if they were young and violent men

i actually do have a horse in the race, inasmuch as i used to be jay mcclelland's postdoc's minion. jay and his buddies dave rumelhart and geoff hinton and others decided to test if that poo poo was unlearnable by making computers learn it. that was v0 circa 1986 of the technology that openai, google, etc uses to go and make language

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jan 29, 2024

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

cheetah7071 posted:

it never particularly struck me that the two were incompatible. Recursion is very useful for communication but that wouldn't mean every language would choose to use it, even if recursion is a hard-wired part of our brain. It suggests that a very large majority of languages would use it, which is true whether or not there's one exception.

the two of them think it's incompatible. they think it's so, so, fuckin incompatible. hundreds and hundreds of pages of increasingly personal attacks

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Nessus posted:

We will just have to see which of the two of them agree with me about current events wants it more.

What exactly is recursion in this context, anyway?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion#In_language

you can just stick in more clauses in a sentence infinitely. some fucker wrote an entire novel in one sentence once for shits and giggles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducks,_Newburyport

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Mad Hamish posted:

I can't precisely recall, but there's a bit in The White Goddess that suggests some phalange-counting thing was used by uhhhh Druids? for either textual communication or for actual counting, I can't remember which at the moment.

God dammit Robert Graves what were you smoking?

i think it was his fetish, not the drugs, imo

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
regrettably, this is becoming noblemen eccentric hobby poo poo again, tho, so better be landed gentry

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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
second most organized human sacrifice regime, after the aztecs

although it's extremely indicative of like, modern rich country culture that you usually get more heat from peeps telling them about their puppy sacrifice (by immurement) than from telling em about their human sacrifice

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