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Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



JacquelineDempsey posted:

I'll try to succinctly sum up my car insurance question as best I can.

Spring 2012: Was idiot, got arrested for DUI. Lost license, revoked for one year. My bf's car had just died, so that was some decent timing; sold my Cavalier to him, since I obviously didn't need her for at least a year.
Spring 2013: Got license back. In order to get license, I need FR-44 insurance (twice state minimum). Get added to bf's policy and drive my Cav again, yay!
Summer 2013: My mom's dying of cancer, gives me her Kia. I go off bf's insurance, insure the Kia in my name; bf keeps the old Cavalier still in his name.
Now: I'm unemployed, and the Kia's dead. No point in paying Progressive $80 a month for a hunk of rusting metal in my driveway, especially since I'm unemployed. So I want to take off the plates, sell her, then get a joint policy with my bf and my old Cavalier.

I don't understand FR-44 AT ALL because I are dumb when it comes to insurance, and the DMV website is not very helpful. The links to info about FR-44 come up under the "commercial" section, even though this is a personal use car...?

1. If I'm a driver on the policy, I assume, we still need the "twice state minimum".
2. That said, do I need to be the primary policy member on the Cav, and bf is an added driver, for DMV "certified insurance" purposes? I'm terrified of getting my license suspended for not having FR-44 insurance, that's still part of the deal of my keeping my license, as far as I can tell.
3. If #2 is NOT the case, is there any difference in rate quotes if bf is the primary, and I'm the add-on, even if we're still doing 50/100/40 coverage? Are two people being covered on the same car equal in the eyes of insurer and the law?

I'm sorry if these are really stupid questions, or more properly belong in the legal megathread. This is in Virginia, fwiw.

1. Yes.
2. No - as long as you're a listed driver you can get an FR44.
3. Not really. Maybe off his credit rating for him being primary vs. you, but the cars and drivers being equal otherwise, your rate will largely be the same.

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Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



supkirbs posted:

You would not have had to pay any deductible out of pocket/upfront/at alll.

Assuming they had accepted liability that fast. Also, if it's some podunk insurance they often don't have direct repair shops and can make the rental a pain in the rear end.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



SiGmA_X posted:

There aren't any dealer body shops in my area for my brands. The BMW and Audi certified body shops locally aren't at or owned by either dealer. Same with other German brands.

Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by direct repair shop? Can you elaborate? I figured it was the <insurance brand> owned repair shop.

No insurance companies own the shops. Direct repair shops are shops the insurance company has a contract with. It depends on the market area but you almost always have a high end shop, because people don't want their Porsche getting fixed at a Caliber.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



SiGmA_X posted:

Progressive owns repair shops. I was under the impression Allstate did too. Perhaps I'm wrong.

They don't. The problems you run into owning both the insurance and the shop are huge. They have Service Centers where they get the cars in, do estimates, and put people into rentals but the work is done by a direct repair shop.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



SiGmA_X posted:

I'll take your word for it. From what the Progressive people said, they own and operate the body shop, but they may have really meant they sent the cars to a direct shop. Sales people..

Speaking as someone with a much higher level of exposure to claims than a sales rep, they unequivocally do not own any shops. There is a relationship and a contract, but 0% ownership in any shop.

Owning the shop would have steering lawsuits coming out of the woodwork overnight.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



I think you'd be hard pressed to say something that was, in essence, run over would qualify as a missile. Usually it it isn't high enough on the car to actually be airborne I would say collision.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



OssiansFolly posted:

In my state anything that is STATIONARY in the street is Collision (which includes already hit and dead animals). Anything that is falling off of, kicked up from, or moving on the roadway is comprehensive.

But as I said before...it is all going to come down to the phrasing used to describe the loss and the adjuster handling the claim.

I think you'll find it isn't a state regulation but a policy interpretation.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



OssiansFolly posted:

Many insurance companies have a clause in the claims paperwork that says by cashing the check you are accepting their settlement unless otherwise noted. So, until he brings up his qualms with the pay out he should hold the check. Also, the longer you hold that check and complain the longer that claim remains open and that claim adjuster can't close the file. Claims adjusters get paid to finalize and close claims, so by not cashing that check you are wrecking his claim closing numbers (which the majority of insurance companies use to offer bonuses and promotions).

Keeping an uncashed check is a good idea until you get satisfactory responses from the insurance company.

If you're not singing a release then there isn't any paperwork. Most PD payments don't have a release either.

Also lol at adjusters getting paid by the claim closure rate. Maybe at some poo poo tastic podunk company, but that doesn't happen at any big carriers.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



OssiansFolly posted:

I worked in claims at State Farm...the largest and most successful insurance company in the US. Guess what...this is how it works. Adjusters get paid, receive bonuses and are considered for promotions based on satisfactory closing rate. The faster you close claims the better, because people come to and leave companies based on how claims are handled. I now represent 9 different companies and of the 4 I have visited they all handle claims the same way. Keeping claims open requires more hours and the company is losing money as someone works that claim...not to mention the aspect of keeping or losing a customer gets better or worse depending on how quickly that claim is handled.

Trust me...this is how claims works.


Eh, success is relative. SF is huge because they've been around forever, and as a mutual insurance company, aren't obliged to make money for shareholders.

I've worked in claims at several major insurance corporations. High level. Sure, claims inventory is something to review, but that because claims rarely age well, and customer satisfaction is directly correlated to it. Attorney represented, commercial claims, and litigation claims can take years to resolve, and this has no impact on that person's job performance.

If you handled claims in SF's centralized claims environment you may see something like that, because it's a volume operation. Low complexity, high throughput centralized claims handling is very common nowadays. Because the work is segmented into low complexity claims, the volume is increased to distribute it evenly. If you didn't ever close a claim you'd be in trouble, but nobody is losing out on promotions or a profiting sharing/bonus system because someone decided to not cash a check. Once you issue the check and it reflects a loss payment on the claim, it's considered closed at any rate.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



damnfan posted:

So my car is currently covered under my parents' insurance. I'll be moving out next week to another state for a job. Due to that, I will need to get my own car insurance, correct?

Correct.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



OssiansFolly posted:

I don't know...I've read these sites before and they seem legit, but the pricing seems oddly specific...(Bubble more than Insure Your Rental)

My only main concern that I can't answer because none of the sites provide an answer is...do these policies cover 'Loss of Use' to pay for the rental car company's loss of profits due to a damaged vehicle being unusable while being repaired. If you go the route of one of these please let us know what they say about that 'Loss of Use' coverage.

Generally the rental companies will try to hit you up for diminished value, loss of use and an administrative fee if there is a loss. If you call them they'll usually waive it though.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



OssiansFolly posted:

That is basically right. It has NOTHING to do with there being an agent involved. For all we know the prices you are quoting are annual vs. semi-annual (you may laugh, but I see people screw this up ALL THE TIME). Two companies that I rep, State Auto and Auto-Owners, typically run on the higher end of cost, BUT on occasion they absolutely blow other companies like Travelers and Safeco out of the water. That just means those people fall into their target market (Over 45, less than 2 kids, awesome credit, clean driving record, etc.). Progressive doesn't have a target market...Progressive is the insurance definition of throwing poo poo at the wall and hoping it sticks. If you have a clean driving record and proof of continuous coverage it is HIGHLY likely you can find a more affordable option.

(For the record...State Farm's target market is 50+ with no drivers under 25, home, investments and awesome credit. They may try forever to convince the younger generation that they want them, but trust me as someone that worked for them for 7 years...they don't.)

Edit: And for the record, of all the companies I write for (13 total) PROGRESSIVE is the ONLY company that actually charges the customer a premium for having an agent. Every company I write for will write a policy direct, and we can get the same price as through direct. Progressive is 10% cheaper if you do it online. Just another reason we don't write them except for really lovely drivers with DUI/DWI/OVI or they've been uninsured for a period of time.

You talk a lot of poo poo about companies you write for. I'm sure the agent sales rep would love to hear about that, because I doubt you own the agency and the owner wouldn't be happy to miss out on commissions because one of his guys is going ape poo poo online.

All of the major companies are angling for a piece of the market where people have cars, houses and other toys insured. It's where the money is, because those people don't move companies as often.

To the guy asking about the coverages and rates. By and large, all of the major insurance companies are going to offer a very competitive product. Sometimes the rates are very different and as a consumer, that's good for you. They're going to offer you the same coverages, a very similar claims process, etc. You're spoiled for choice and paying over the odds isn't cost effective.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jastiger posted:

I get what you're saying, but LoL if there aren't a billion non standard companies chomping at the bit to write those bad risks.

Well yes, but the non standard market isn't what it used to be. All the big companies are trying to avoid writing those risks and implementing new processes and technology to price them out of joining. One of those companies is going to offer a very similar level of service.

There are plenty of fly by night places for the non standard market. Watch late night tv or go to an agent to find the ones that don't actively market at all and you'll find scores of them.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



OssiansFolly posted:

BOTH! And do it right away because once coverage is exhausted they will start denying payments! Be prepared to have them come after you for the damage to the van in front of you.

To explain my comments. All the insurance companies involved are going to try and push any liability and payments off on the other companies. They will say that you didn't provide a safe clearance between your vehicle and the van and you are responsible for 20% of the damage (number used for example). It is a fairly common tactic to push some fault/liability off on as many drivers as possible in this kind of claim. Be prepared, and turn in the claim on all drivers behind you and your own insurance. STICK TO YOUR GUNS! If they give you 20% of the fault/liability it will count as a loss on your driving record, so keep the police report (if you haven't filed one go do it now).

I've never seen a multi vehicle limits claim where they paid limits without getting releases and paying it pro rata. If anything it takes way longer because everyone has to go through their coverage if they have it, then the at fault party's insurance has to figure out the damages and then start figuring out the pro rata payments.

The 20% is possible but I don't see it very often. Some smaller places will always try it, especially if they aren't members of arbitration and know the cost to sue them for the difference isn't worth it.

As for the record I would imagine since it's less than 50% it's a not at fault either way.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



OssiansFolly posted:

I've been a part of and been an adjuster to do this...it sucks. They use Assured Clear Distance as a way to justify some responsibility in damage to vehicles further up the chain. If you had left more room between you and the vehicle ahead of you the damage could have been avoided. At Fault is At Fault whether it is 20% of 90%. If your company pays out PD or BI on a claim it is At Fault. As far as paying pro rata, I've seen it go both ways. I've seen places start issuing payments as soon as the numbers come in and when they are out of money they just shrug and tell you it is now on the insured or to file with your company. I've also seen them split damage equally depending on numbers. Either way...you don't want to wait...file early and with as much info on the damage and repair costs as possible.

I've been in claims for over a decade and I can say that unless someone just flat out doesn't respond, I've never seen a insurance company rush to pay out when they know there are additional potential exposures. If you go and pay out limits without getting releases from the other parties you aren't protecting your insured and setting yourself up for a bad faith claim. You can't tell your insured that they're on the hook for the difference because someone came first. I agree you don't want to wait, though.

I can see the defense on being partially responsible but it's all going to depend on the impact. It's not a reasonable expectation to leave enough room if you get blasted by someone doing 60mph. If you have a minor hit in the back and you roll into the other guy, yeah that might be an issue. The trend right now is more companies applying shared liability because even a 1 or 2% increase in the overall liability percentage can net huge returns. When you're running on formula that generates 2-6 cents profit on the dollar it's a big deal, especially since you don't want to be behind your competitors and have to start raising rates to make up the shortfall, which makes you less competitive when people shop rates, and you bleed customers.

As for the liability, any company I've dealt with (including SF) doesn't consider something at-fault unless its 51% or more. BI claims are sometimes made on claims where you're not at fault in any way in order to secure a release because it's easier to pay someone $250 or $500 rather than deal with potential costs down the road (lowest ultimate cost) but it doesn't change the liability decision. The percentage at fault may change some internal rating factors for how the loss is categorized and impacts premiums.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



22 Eargesplitten posted:

Progressive were who had the $25 extra for a $500 deductible comprehensive. $500 deductible collision would have been an extra $78/mo. As opposed to $8.50 and $17 from State Farm. I checked them first because they always advertise showing you comparable prices for other brands, but that wasn't available for me.

I ended up buying already. I'll call the agent for the renters insurance and see A) how to get that "steer clear" training discount they have and get renter's insurance. I might also see how much a $100 deductible on comprehensive and/or collision would be instead of the $500. I tried to rush as little as possible, but still rushed more than I should.

I'm still pretty drat happy, because previously I was with metlife paying $30 more/mo for 50/100/? liability, 50/100 uninsured, ? uninsured property damage, no collision or comprehensive. And that was after the renter's discount. I bought it when the company I was with had a discount, and didn't shop around like I should have.

Either is better than when I was under my mother's insurance. She sent the old policy's info over when I got on Metlife and she was paying as much for liability and uninsured motorist on my '99 Subaru as she was for comprehensive/collision/annual birthday cake on her 2013 Subaru.

Do policies just not lower premiums even when a new quote would be lower? That would make sense, since that car came on the policy when I was 18, and the Subaru Impreza is probably in the top 3 cars wrapped around a tree in the middle of nowhere.

Companies adjust their rates pretty often, but sometimes you can get stuck in an older product model. It's always worthwhile to quote around every 6 months or a year. I've rewritten with my current carrier and got a lower rate mid term even.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



I doubt they were trying to go around it, probably just weren't aware OP went through their coverage. Not unusual with some slower carriers.

At any rate you'll get any difference in deductible between your collision coverage and UMPD. Your insurance company will either accept the 5k releasing the other party (most likely) or sue them directly which is not likely considering the amount they're trying to recover and the fact that someone has 5k limits they probably don't have much in the way of assets.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jastiger posted:

Yeah a lot of states are ridiculously low and I genuinely don't understand it. Florida has REALLY low limits and you'd think it would translate into lower premiums but its the exact opposite. Minimum coverage should be a lot higher and personally I"d rather see every state go the route of MA or NC..no insurance..no license.

The thought process behind the low limits is that having a low minimum limit means that coverage will be cheaper, and there will be less uninsured motorists on the road.

In practice it never really works because if you aren't going to pay $30/month you aren't going to pay $25 either.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



LongDarkNight posted:

As far as the car seat goes let your carrier know about the damage. They should pay to replace it under your collision coverage, it's state law.

This.

The hitch and rental should be covered as well. Most policies have a component of covering aftermarket equipment to a certain price, $500, $1k or similar. The rental should be part of your UMPD.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



EugeneJ posted:

The longer you're with a company, the easier they are on you after you have an at-fault accident

How long have you been with esurance?

The company may have some longevity discounts but this, in general, the increase is only related to the accident regardless of your tenure.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



antiga posted:

Well, that's odd but at least then I'd be six months closer to having it fall off my record. I booked it, hopefully I don't get a call in a week saying they made a mistake and want to cancel.

To the other poster, I'd think esurance would rather have me on the record saying that the other party obviously lied about the injuries rather than writing a big check but I understand that they didn't have to act in my interest.

Thanks.

The other party didn't really lie, they just ran up a bunch of medical bills because that's what their attorney told them to do. If Esurance says they aren't paying it, it would go to court and you run the risk of getting a big rear end settlement against Esurance and you. Them paying the amount releases you from any liability. It sucks but it's really in your best interests.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



It's worthwhile to try, because there won't be any increase. Sure it's a bit annoying when it beeps at you for hard braking but if you can live with it for awhile it can save you money.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



LongDarkNight posted:

It depends on what state you are from and what coverages you carry on your own policy. Do you have comp and collision?

In addition to this, it depends on the contract. This is definitely a question to call and ask your insurance company because I've had plenty of cases where a relative or bf/gf have driven a rental car they aren't listed on the contract for and our coverage won't apply since they aren't contractually liable for the damages.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jastiger posted:

Which state are you moving to? And from which part of Cali?

You're absolutely right though, location SERIOUSLY matters, as does the state you're moving to due to insurance laws. Some states are just off the charts crazy for insurance while others are relatively mild.

My favorite craziness is Michigan lifetime PIP.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Untagged posted:

Is it possible to be an independent agent part time? As in keeping a full-time job, but selling and doing policy work with supplemental income in mind?

You'd be working for an agent most likely, not an agent yourself. Availability and accessibility to clients is important, wouldn't be easy to work only part time.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jastiger posted:

Well thats pretty danged low to be honest, depending on what state are you in.

As for lowering the premium, you can probably just put it on their insurance with GEICO and that may be cheaper. Otherwise, just see if they offer "Storage" insurance.

In addition, your best bet is to make sure you are listed as a driver somewhere. If you aren't, you're going to pay much higher premiums when you get back because you haven't maintained continuous insurance.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Call your insurance company and report the accident. Assuming you have the coverage, they can get your car towed to a shop or salvage yard if it's totaled and get you into a rental.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jastiger posted:

Depends on the company. A preferred company that has you on minimums will probably pay and leave you to your own devices and drop you. IF its a significant amount they'll follow up and make sure they are paying out. If its sub standard company they may pay out the minimum or deny the claim outright unless there is certain documentation. Every company is different and it matters what happens.

IF they are in a separate state, then they are breaking the law by not having insurance in the state of residence.

Detroit address fraud is so prevalent a lot of companies have specific individuals or whole teams that deal with suspected fraud of this nature. Older policy language would usually just pay out and nonrenew people but the trend recently is more aggressive language about material misrepresentation and duty to report changes which has a much stronger chance of denial, especially for first party claims.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jastiger posted:

If their insurance company is willing to pay up for medical and you're worried you may be hurt, go get yourself checked out. If not, I wouldn't worry about it. Often times insurance companies will pay you just to go away even if you aren't hurt. That way they KNOW there is no further claim.

Chuck 250/500 at them for that signed release. :angel:

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



They charge a ton and have awful service. Basically exist to insure the risks nobody else wants.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Some companies will remove the lack of prior US insurance if you provide them proof of residency overseas.

I'd call direct.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



I would do the same. I'm actually insured with GEICO, despite working for someone else. Money is money.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



I don't think it's the score so much as the particular information that can be correlated to risk.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



It tends to vary, and the 25 cutoff is sort of a myth. It all depends on what the insurance companies loss ratios are, and there isn't a dramatic shift from 24.99 to 25.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



If you took a defensive driving class to wipe it, then I wouldn't report it. The fix it ticket MAY show up, but I'd probably not report it either. Just be aware your premium may change.

Your limits are super high, so I'd consider reducing the BI limits unless you have a lot of assets.
Whatever you do, raise your current PD limit ASAP. 5k is the lowest allowed in any state and 5k goes fast.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Safeco, The General, Titan, etc. are all non-standard nightmare companies.

For everyone out there, stick with a bigger name company if you are in doubt. SF, Nationwide, Progressive, GEICO, etc.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



This.

Also, walk out to your car. Scratch it with your key. Thats going to cost around $500. Now imagine you only have $5000.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Are you in CA? That's the maximum by law. The coverage is super restrictive. That's if someone hits you with no insurance. Doesn't cover hit and runs though. They have to be identified.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



And UMPD does cover other property, unlike comp/coll.

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Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



When you settle the meds, there is typically an amount for incurred expenses, your pain and suffering, and an open amount for future treatment. They won't give you any money until you sign a release. Providing a statement and describing your injuries is bog standard fare. Since you don't have PIP, you either provide a statement or you get an attorney and have them eat up 1/3 of your total settlement.

As for your diminished value claim, good luck. Who appraised it? A dealer? Someone with a vested financial interest into telling you that your car is worth less? Diminished value claims are very sticky, and you're not getting anywhere near 7k. At best you might get a grand, but it's realistically probably a few hundred.

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