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Amethyst posted:Because reaching up from a keyboard to a touchscreen is an objectively terrible experience which makes your arm hurt after a few minutes. But now you are using a cursor with a small trackpad on a UI designed for fingers. I like the idea of Metro but something about Surface just screams Ballmer choking pre-release and shoving a bunch of extraneous poo poo into the device. It was probably a lovely tablet running Win 8 but then got larded up with a kickstand, keyboard and stylus because Ballmer was worried it wasn't different enough.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:07
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The trackpad will come into play when you're using it as a laptop and doing heavy duty work in Desktop mode. Hopefully Metro won't intrude too much when doing so and hopefully the trackpad isn't poo poo, but we'll have to wait and see for that review.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:13
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monkeyspank posted:But now you are using a cursor with a small trackpad on a UI designed for fingers. I like the idea of Metro but something about Surface just screams Ballmer choking pre-release and shoving a bunch of extraneous poo poo into the device. It was probably a lovely tablet running Win 8 but then got larded up with a kickstand, keyboard and stylus because Ballmer was worried it wasn't different enough. The Metro UI is designed for touch. Programs may not be. Like Office. I'd probably destroy my computer if I had to use Word or PowerPoint without a mouse/touchpad.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:13
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Even if this device doesn't end up being perfect it's probably the most comprehensive competitor to the iPad so far with some differentiating features that could help it carve out its own niche. Having a huge player like MS solidly behind an in-house device is good for everyone including Apple people. It just helps push the market forward, forces vendors to reevaluate pricing and creates more consumer choice. It looks like a cool product that may be a very good fit for a lot of people so hey. Cool. spidoman posted:The Metro UI is designed for touch. Programs may not be. Like Office. I'd probably destroy my computer if I had to use Word or PowerPoint without a mouse/touchpad.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:14
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Launching "competitive" with existing priceS doesnt make people reevaluate their pricing. Using a worse screen than existing tablets doesnt push the market forward. There is no niche for this thing. The ARM version doesnt have an app ecosystem. The intel version is thick, heavy, and will probably be very expensive. The screen is worse than an ipad, and the keyboard is worse than an ultrabook. It is the homercar of devices, it tries to do everything, but the only things that stand out are the gimmicks.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:22
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I'm interested to see how it works. I can imagine really lovely ways to integrate a small trackpad into a touch UI and I hope MS figures out something non-lovely instead.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:22
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Amethyst posted:Are there any pictures of this thing running in portrait mode? I can't imagine it looking any good with the 16:9 aspect ratio. Is there any evidence there will be a portrait mode?
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Jun 19, 2012 04:22
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^^^ Windows 8/Metro works and looks fine in Portrait, not sure about RT. Gendo posted:Even if this device doesn't end up being perfect it's probably the most comprehensive competitor to the iPad so far with some differentiating features that could help it carve out its own niche. Having a huge player like MS solidly behind an in-house device is good for everyone including Apple people. It just helps push the market forward, forces vendors to reevaluate pricing and creates more consumer choice. But then you have an accessory. The ability to do "everything" with just your tablet and case seems really awesome. I think it's the first honest attempt at blending the tablet and the laptop together into one product. It may have issues but I hope this is the direction of tablets in the future... Sudden Loud Noise fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 04:26
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Wow, this looks interesting and I can't wait to give it a try. I currently use the original Asus Transformer with the keyboard dock and it's great for bringing to class but it's occasionally buggy and Android tablet apps seem to be lacking. The tactile keyboard also looks neat but one thing I like about the Transformer keyboard dock is that it also acts as an extended battery. I don't really like the idea of the kickstand on this since I will be using it on non-tabletop surfaces such as my lap and I don't know how that will work out. I wonder if there's any chance that they are working on a third keyboard dock with a solid hinge design and maybe the extended battery.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:27
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the talent deficit posted:Is there any evidence there will be a portrait mode? It it doesn't have a portrait mode, that is yet another glaring omission that it's competitors don't have.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:27
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computers posted:, and the keyboard is worse than an ultrabook Were you at the event tonight to try out the keyboard?
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Jun 19, 2012 04:28
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Doomsday Jesus posted:Were you at the event tonight to try out the keyboard?  The keyboard is tiny, like a netbook. Looks really uncomfortable to me, like a netbook.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:30
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The iPad keyboard is extremely easy to type on when it's in normal keyboard mode, even with my somewhat big hands. I can't imagine anyone having issues with the Surface keyboard if they actually spend time with it.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:34
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Kilometers Davis posted:The iPad keyboard is extremely easy to type on when it's in normal keyboard mode, even with my somewhat big hands. I can't imagine anyone having issues with the Surface keyboard if they actually spend time with it. It's ok for short term typing, like quick responses to emails, but you aren't going to be writing long documents or coding. Same with netbook keyboards and this type cover thing. If Microsoft is seriously proposing this as a laptop replacement I am seriously skeptical about using that keyboard for full blown content creation.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:37
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Amethyst posted:It's ok for short term typing, like quick responses to emails, but you aren't going to be writing long documents or coding. Same with netbook keyboards and this type cover thing. I feel like if you're going to use it for full blown content creation then you will just plug a USB keyboard into the port.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:38
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Startacus posted:I feel like if you're going to use it for full blown content creation then you will just plug a USB keyboard into the port. In that case why not have a laptop instead? No need to carry around a usb keyboard. If this device isn't good for portable content creation, it isn't filling the niche Microsoft says it does.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:40
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The ipad keyboard is usually at a proper angle as well. Typing on a flat surface, especially such a thin one, is really terrible. There's a reason that keyboards are angled or raised.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:40
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Amethyst posted:In that case why not have a laptop instead? No need to carry around a usb keyboard. I think the idea would be if you are lounging around your apartment, or commuting to work, you can use the keyboard to type some quick emails, tweet, fb, whatever. Then when you get to work or wherever you're going to be working for sustained periods of time, you would have an actual keyboard there. No need to carry the keyboard with you. Just leave it at your desk.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:44
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Startacus posted:I think the idea would be if you are lounging around your apartment, or commuting to work, you can use the keyboard to type some quick emails, tweet, fb, whatever. Then when you get to work or wherever you're going to be working for sustained periods of time, you would have an actual keyboard there. No need to carry the keyboard with you. Just leave it at your desk. How can you use this keyboard on anything other than a flat tabletop?
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Jun 19, 2012 04:47
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If I can order the Intel version with windows 7 I'm sold. Even on this, gently caress metro.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:49
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ilkhan posted:If I can order the Intel version with windows 7 I'm sold. That's ridiculous, it's a touch device, why would you want windows 7?
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Jun 19, 2012 04:52
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Startacus posted:I think the idea would be if you are lounging around your apartment, or commuting to work, you can use the keyboard to type some quick emails, tweet, fb, whatever. Then when you get to work or wherever you're going to be working for sustained periods of time, you would have an actual keyboard there. No need to carry the keyboard with you. Just leave it at your desk. So this isn't a laptop replacement then?
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Jun 19, 2012 04:53
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Butt Savage posted:This is exactly what I want from my tablet experience. I want the security of being able to switch from lazing around and watching poo poo on YouTube to "oh my god, I forgot to do research for this paper due Friday, good thing this thing turns into a fully capable notebook that I can use at the library." Just get a laptop. quote:Like others have said, if the battery life is 50% as good as the iPad's, I'm sold. Make sure that four hour battery has charge before rushing to the library in a panic.
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Jun 19, 2012 04:56
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TheRevolution1 posted:That's ridiculous, it's a touch device, why would you want windows 7? To be fair, Windows 7 has a lot of touch stuff built-in, just not to the level of Windows 8. I have to support it on a lot of tablets running medical software.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:05
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Amethyst posted:So this isn't a laptop replacement then?
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Jun 19, 2012 05:10
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TheRevolution1 posted:That's ridiculous, it's a touch device, why would you want windows 7? And I say that as one of the few people on Earth (it seems) who liked win vista once it had a patch or two in it. Win8 is loving horrible from my VERY brief encounter with it. I couldn't stand it long enough to even let it sit on my laptop overnight. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 05:11
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computers posted:There is no niche for this thing.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:11
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I'm buying the 128 Intel version the second it's available. This thing is pure sex.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:14
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hotsauce posted:I'm buying the 128 Intel version the second it's available. Why don't you buy a Samsung series 7 slate right now? http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/Samsung-Series-7-Slate/productID.241554200
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Jun 19, 2012 05:18
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mod sassinator posted:Why don't you buy a Samsung series 7 slate right now? http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/Samsung-Series-7-Slate/productID.241554200 I actually had one and sold it  It was a bit large and the dock/keyboard arrangement was awkward. The Surface solves those issues.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:19
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Chasiubao posted:Not you, but seriously where is this Compared to the A5 or A5X, the GPU on a tegra3 is tiny. People may not think of apple as being aggressive on specs, but when it comes to SoCs they have been. I don't know why MS is being cagey about the screen res either actually. To me, being cagey on something like that this far from release means they're seeing how low can they go to meet cost demands.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:23
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The Tegra 3 is underpowered
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mod sassinator posted:Why don't you buy a Samsung series 7 slate right now? http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/Samsung-Series-7-Slate/productID.241554200 Also the display isn't 1080p and it's not running Ivy Bridge.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:24
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hotsauce posted:I actually had one and sold it The series 7 is the same thickness and weight as surface pro. Sure the surface will hopefully have a better processor and screen, but is it really worth waiting over 6 months for it?
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Jun 19, 2012 05:26
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This looks really cool and i want to try one out
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Jun 19, 2012 05:26
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Syrinxx posted:Some people actually loving hate Apple and I am one of them so I guess that's sort of a niche. If it's half as pleasant to use as my Windows Phone I'll be extremely happy with it. Brand loyalty/disloyalty is an inredibly dumb thing especially when it drives you into buying a blatantly inferior product. The RT version of the surface is objectively a worse device than an iPad because of the screen, app availability, and OS maturity alone. If you truly want to cut off your nose to spite your face buy an android tablet that at least has some semblance of an app ecosystem. If you want to use this as a laptop and not a tablet and are actually interested in content creation buy a laptop they are better and cheaper at this while offering better battery life and performance. This product has literally no merits over the competition unless you count a gimmick keyboard cover as a improvement worthy of buying the product despite the areas it is lacking in almost everywhere else. Tablet/laptop hybrids have been out for a decade now and have never caught on outside of very niche medical roles. Metro isn't going to suddenly spur developers to the windows touch platform because the market share and the profit aren't there. If you are actually considering buying the intel version I don't really see how you can justify buying what amounts to a netbook without a keyboard and trackpad for more than the price of a full featured ultrabook, because there is absolutely no way MS will be able to leverage their suppliers to get a core i5+128gb SSD in a package under $1000. You would be spending more than a good laptop for a tablet that is huge and clunky and requires a really crappy keyboard/trackpad so it can equate to a laptop. But you really really won't be satisfied typing papers, coding, whatever on that tiny rear end capacitive keyboard for prolonged periods of time. Getting the Intel versions just puts you in a role where you could run all the windows apps you love but you can't because of the crap that you need for input, and if you were to rectify this with a bluetooth keyboard+mouse you have completely defeated the portability factor of a tablet. The intel tablet will be worse than an iPad or even a Xoom at being a tablet because of it's weight, thickness, and battery life and worse than a Macbook Air or whatever laptop you would consider buying at being a content creation device. Frankenstein devices sure sound cool but in theory they become the worst of both worlds.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:31
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You know what would be sweet? If MS released some in-house win 8 streaming software that allowed you to stream from your home win 8 desktop or xbox 360 to this thing. There's been a lot of talk lately about MS acquiring On-Live, and I wonder if this is their eventual plan for the surface. Release this thing, release the new xbox next year, and release live streaming capability specifically tailored to Win 8. "now play Crysis/xbox 720 games at 1080p anywhere in the world"
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Jun 19, 2012 05:42
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MrBond posted:Compared to the A5 or A5X, the GPU on a tegra3 is tiny. That, or they're trying to source decent display hardware and running smack into "Apple bought all our production and promised we'd sleep with the fishes if we sold a single one to anybody else" from everyone who can possibly manufacture a tablet-sized high-DPI panel. Paint.NET Autist posted:The RT version of the surface is objectively a worse device than an iPad because of the screen, app availability, and OS maturity alone.  There are other things that matter... but not many that matter so much.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:48
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Space Gopher posted:That, or they're trying to source decent display hardware and running smack into "Apple bought all our production and promised we'd sleep with the fishes if we sold a single one to anybody else" from everyone who can possibly manufacture a tablet-sized high-DPI panel. Office frankly isn't enough here. Especially since it isn't optimized for tablets.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:50
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Amethyst posted:Office frankly isn't enough here. Especially since it isn't optimized for tablets. There's tons of apps people are going to want on a Windows ARM tablet, and if they don't get them, it will be hard to justify switching from either an iPad or an x86 laptop no matter how cool the gadget is. However, I think its safe to assume Office isn't going to wait very long before they start working on a tablet-tuned version.
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Jun 19, 2012 05:55
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As a simple minded consumer whore, could I ask for an educated guess as to whether the Pro version of this thing would be suitable for graphically intensive PC games?
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