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OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Geektox posted:

So does this mean that on Virgin I could just pay off my SuperTab and not have to deal with Cancellation Fees and thus am free to switch to a Choice Plan from a Combo Plan?

I can't speak for Virgin, although this probably applies to them. However it only applies to contracts that are signed or resigned after February 4th. It's not going to do anything to existing contracts until you renew.

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OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

ZShakespeare posted:

Oilslick, for family sharing can you actually share ANY plan? I'm grandfathered into a 6gb data plan and I want to know if I can bring my wife into the deal with a cheap 100mb plan.

Well, yes and no.

Yes, pretty much every in market plan has a sharable version of it. That's the problem, as there are two almost identical versions of any plan: a sharable plan and a stand alone plan. This means that if you are currently on a stand alone plan, then you must change your plan to a sharable one. But if that plan is no longer in market, then it cannot be made into a share plan.

If you are on a standalone plan right now, then there's no way to allow your wife to share your data without changing your plan entirely.

Also, features don't share. So if you have a voice plan with a $30 6GB add on, those don't share ever. It's a pretty lousy system, I know. (And if anyone's wondering why you'd ever elect to have a standalone version of a plan instead of a share one, it's because standalone plans have flex data, allowing for a better overage rate of $10 per GB}

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

less than three posted:

The CCTS draft wireless code is done.

http://consultation.crtc.gc.ca/read-draft-code

A few nice gestures such as a cap on roaming and devices must be offered an unlock after 30 days, plus clarity on additional fees and a limit on termination fees. Nothing about contract length.

The top 100 liked comments on the draft are all variants about the 36 month term.

Is there any likelihood of this being implemented, or is it basically just a wishlist by an organization that represents concerned consumers?

Also, it seems like it'd be hard to get telcos to agree to this. They'd probably be able to successfully argue that some of the terms of this draft would allow for easy fraud, particularly allowing to stop charges when a customer's phone is lost or stolen. Don't feel like paying your bill? Just call up your provider and tell em that your phone was "stolen". I think they'll find a way around not billing you while your phone is incapacitated under warranty. Your carrier did not design the phone, they merely provide the service. As long as their towers still work they are still holding up their end of the bargain. Yes, it's hard to get service when your phone is broken, but that argument has never worked and I'm guessing there's a reason why. Not letting prepaid cards ever expire sounds like a tough sell too, considering that they'd be supporting many phones on the network for next to nothing.

Furthermore, a great deal of those terms are already being implemented by many carriers (no autorenewing contracts, explaining subsidies and termination fees and other info in contract, notifications of exceeding data usage, providing online usage monitoring, termination fees not exceeding total subsidy, explaining how to check prepaid balance, etc)

OilSlick fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jan 29, 2013

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

ZShakespeare posted:

So, in other words, when the moratorium on spectrum sale from the 2009 auction is up next year and Wind and Mobilicity get bought up by the big 3, they will have no incentive to follow these "guidelines" and everything will return to normal.

I wouldn't say things are likely to go backwards. Those two carriers have no presence in Atlantic Canada, but competition is still (relatively) alive here, when the carriers could have just as easily kept shafting us compared to the rest of the country and chalk in up to "regional" differences, which does happen sometimes.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
Yes, Bell offers the 10% off deal. If you're an existing customer it's still possible to get it, but your contract must be completely finished.

EDIT: You must have a minimum of a $50 voice and data plan in order to get it.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

jonathan posted:

Galaxy Nexus purchased from Rogers last Feb.

I suppose that's the fastest this phone will support. I know when I was going to get it there was also the Galaxy S3 with LTE but I went Nexus because these phones are RAD.

Yeah, I don't think the Nexus has LTE. I never really use LTE on my S3 anyway.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
Alright, so I guess Eastlink is pulling a Blackberry and finally launching their long announced/frequently delayed cell service. I may update the OP once I get more information for the benefit of goons from Atlantic Canada. I'm sure both of you are highly interested. :allears: Not much is known right now, but what my boss was able to gather:



- No contracts. Not sure yet if it will be a tab system or the system that American Walmart uses that I don't remember and won't bother to explain.

- Will apparently have 2 plans: $20 and $30. No word yet on data/add ons.

- No iPhones. Will support Android and Blackberry.

- Will have towers in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, not sure how widespread they are. Will use Rogers towers (not roaming) everywhere else. Good luck Newfoundland.

- Will presumably be able to bundle to Eastlink home service bills.

Will Eastlink help usher in a new era of competition and improved rate plans? Or will their launch likely be full of glitches and have such poor coverage and handset selection that the Big 3 will pretty much ignore whatever threat they pose? I'm sure you know.



In other news, MobileSyrup is reporting that Telus is lowering the price of their iPhone 5 (and probably 4S). The Bell store I work at just got a MASSIVE shipment of iPhones today, indicating that the Big 3 is probably doing this soon.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Godinster posted:

I think that was just refurbs

Hmm... I wonder why we got sent so many. They didn't appear to be refurbs, as we've never carried them. We'll see I guess

Edit: confirmed the iPhone 4s is going back to 0 again tomorrow

OilSlick fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 12, 2013

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
I really hate Wireless Wave sometimes. Ten bucks says the manager there was trying to switch you over since it would count as a new activation for his store which is considered valuable, rather than selling you a new phone outright, which is considered worthless. I guess he had no way of knowing that this would happen after the fact but yeah that sucks. I don't think anyone in this thread really has any ideas you haven't tried already. Hopefully that complaints thing works, it'd be nice to know if that route actually goes anywhere. Good luck.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

THE LUMMOX posted:

The reps at two stores had no idea wtf was going on and as far as they explained it, if it could get voice it should be able to get 3g data.

This isn't always true. With unlocked phones that aren't from the original carrier, the only thing that can be guaranteed to work is voice and text. Other services, such as data, are not guaranteed to work. So yeah, that's normal. Not much you can do about it.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

ante posted:

I don't know anything about going from other countries TO Canada, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, as long as you were paying for the service and had the proper APN settings

I don't know why either, all I know is when Bell first got HSPA coverage that was one of the first things they told us.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Secx posted:

My dad has this old LG pre-paid Telus phone. I want to give him my old unlocked 3GS, but his phone had no SIM in the SIM slot when I removed the battery.

Will Telus sell me a SIM card if I go in a store? And how much are they?

I can't see why not. They're :10bux:

edit: They may require your dad to be the one to do it if it's his name on the account, and they may require the iPhone present to activate.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Squibbles posted:

I believe there are or were some providers who were known to lock your account which prevents transfers if you notify them that you are terminating your account with them? Not sure if that still happens but it was kind of a dick move.

Never heard of it happening, never had it happen in five years of selling phones, and if it did I'd punch that carrier in the dick for ruining my sale. Of course if you cancel your line completely then there is no number to port and will have to get a new number (if it's possible to get it back it's more trouble than it's worth)

When porting, just make sure you have your account number. That's usually all that's needed.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Martytoof posted:

I just got a text message from Rogers (?) telling me I can get a free Kindle Paperwhite 3G if I upgrade my phone and re-up my plan or something. I don't need one, but is this a legit thing they're doing, or just some sort of scam SMS?


It appears to require a brand new line, not upgrading an existing one, based on that MobileSyrup article and the sign at the Rogers in the mall I work at.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
I dunno, a pretty big force for competition lately has been Koodo. Even if they're owned by Telus, they seem to be the one that Bell is trying to hardest to compete with. We've come out with similar plans (with similar handset subsidies) and we now offer free long distance in some of our plans. I haven't heard any internal communications breathe a word about Mobilicity or Wind, probably because their networks were so weak they didn't consider them a threat. Superior network coverage is pretty much the main thing we use as an excuse to charge higher prices than our competitors and get away with it, so I can see why I never see the names Mobilicity or Wind ever come up in any internal competitive info. Competition isn't dead yet.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Lexicon posted:

So there's been plenty of bluster on reddit, etc about Telus raising SMS prices to the USA to $0.40. If someone's midway through a contract, and signed onto that contract with the expectation that the price for that service was some X < $0.40, and then they raise it - how is this not a breach of said contract? Does it not therefore release any given consumer from the obligation to see out that contract for its duration?

It was brought up earlier in the thread, and it very well might be considered a breach of contract, but it's also possible their lawyers are cooler than your lawyers and may have a way around it. If I had to guess, they might say that they are raising a non essential service price. Carriers have raised prices on stuff like call display in the past and got away with it, and they can simply tell you to get rid of call display if you don't like it as they can still provide you with the service that they are legally bound to provide for without call display. It may work something like that, if it works that way at all.

The other point that was raised is if one carrier is going to raise a price, then all carriers will eventually raise the price, since Canadian carriers are insanely deluded and believe they can salesmanship their way around any price increase, so no need to undercut your competitors. In other words, even if you are able to weasel your way out of the contract, you'd only wind up with a carrier that will do the same thing.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Mak0rz posted:

Okay, my old contract with TELUS is finally up! I still have the old Blackberry Curve that was with the account. I don't want the phone to go to waste and instead want to donate it to charity if possible. Two questions:

1: Is there anything I have to do with the phone apart from resetting to factory defaults? It never had a SIM card so I can't just remove that.

2: Where can I send it? What places will accept cell phone donations?

1. Factory reset should be fine. Remove your memory card if you have one.

2. I know most Bell stores accept used phones, regardless of carrier, for proper disposal and recycling, with proceeds going towards saving pandas or something like that.


Aphrodite posted:

Will Canadian carriers still unlock phones, or did they stop when the US passed that law?

Yes, they still unlock phones, albeit with some strict policies and a high fee, depending on the device you want unlocked. Use an online service or local repair shop if at all possible (i.e, not an iPhone).


Lexicon posted:

So this bill simply doesn't make sense. Anyone have any theories what might be going on? The competence of Rogers in accurately measuring and billing is, of course, a matter of some suspicion right now.

I've seen stories about situations like these on the internet. It seems to be an extremely rare glitch that causes some error in data calculation yet looks totally legitimate and has no sign of an error on the carrier's part. Maybe it's an obscure glitch, maybe the phone is somehow transmitting a copious amount of data in error. The trouble is proving that you were not at fault, which can be extremely difficult. If she's never had this problem before, Rogers may allow a one time adjustment. If worse comes to worse try the link in the OP regarding escalating complaints, it's apparently helped some goons here. I'm assuming Rogers has a self serve app of some kind that can track data, so I'd advise monitoring that on a daily basis to see if it keeps happening.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Aphrodite posted:

Is that use an online service if it is an iPhone, or isn't? It's not for me, so I can't really do anything myself, just asking for a friend.

Use one if it is NOT an iPhone. According to the iPhone jailbreaking thread there is no way to unlock an iPhone without carrier intervention unless your iPhone is super old.

Martytoof posted:

iPhone stuff

1. If you are able to successfully cut down your SIM card to fit the new iPhone, then yes, that's all you need to do. You do not need to inform your carrier that you are moving your SIM card. They don't know, don't need to know, and probably don't care. Otherwise, you'd need to get them to give you a new SIM card. This shouldn't renew your contract, even with Roger's penchant for re-signing you if you look at them funny

2. There is no difference in data plans for different iPhones. They are the same for all iPhones, Android, and Windows devices. They would use the same amount of data.

3. You may need to change the APN settings to access 3G, not sure about that one. Calls and texts should work just fine with no work required on your part.

4. Don't be afraid if you need to ask Rogers any questions about this. It's pretty basic stuff, even for them. There's no way they can seriously harm you. Hell if they resigned your contract the new laws can only charge you a maximum of $50 to cancel a contract if there was no device subsidy which should be easier to argue out of, so it's much less scary now.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
Updated the OP a bit. Now with 16% more discount carriers!

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Starhawk posted:

Last night I tried to check my data usage in the "My Telus" official android app. The saved password did work like it usually does, so I pasted it in again from keepass which it rejected, and then finally accepted on the third try. Although it signed me into somebody else's account. Some girl named Erica in the 403 area code (I'm 519/226). I was able to browse through all the pages just as if it was my own, could see her favorite numbers, her bill, plan, usage, everything.

I can't even begin to imagine the level of incompetence it takes for that happen. Should I tell Telus about it? Text Erica and tell her that Telus lost control of her information? Or just keep my mouth shut and pretend it never happened?

Uh, well, if you want to be helpful then I guess you should probably let Telus know. I don't think I'd tell Erica about it because I don't see how her life would be improved in any way by a random text that says "I just read your phone bill. I'm from the internet". Informing Telus of the error should suffice, as a privacy breach of that magnitude, while probably not enough to cause a lawsuit, should still probably cause someone somewhere in the company to crap their pants. It's probably not a common glitch and they probably aren't aware of it. If it were a known issue, I'm sure we'd have heard the shitstorm by now.

That sure is weird, though. I've only used the Bell self serve app and it doesn't require a password. It's connected directly to your phone number.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
$5 more, actually. They did the same thing when the system access fee was eliminated. In some cases it's still cheaper to pay for call display if your plan is good.

But on the upside, Nova Scotia is now among the few provinces (including Newfoundland, Manitoba, and I think Ontario) where you no longer need to give 30 days notice to cancel your account. The wheel of competition continues to turn! (note: the wheel is square and pulled by a dead mule)

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
The amount of people who sign up for phones/plans online completely baffles me. Although I guess these same people would be equally baffled by the fact that we have dozens if not hundreds of people coming into our store to pay their loving bills. My God my dad is about as ignorant as you can get with technology and he was shocked when I told him people pay their bills in a store.

Anyway, going into a store to haggle won't get you far. The iPhone (or any phone) price is generally set in stone and cannot be changed unless there's a promotion going on. So you can ask if there is one, but it's not really haggling if you have to give up after the first no. As for the plan, there are sometimes unadvertised plans, but again they generally cannot offer anything different than what's currently in market. If you want to really haggle, you generally need to do it over the phone with customer service and they may have to mail you out a phone. Just so you know, this is often a terrible process and stores are mostly shut out from being able to help you with any problems with the plan you arranged.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

ZShakespeare posted:

Is tablet data sharing still a thing? I was looking at Virgin's site and it looks like I need to buy another plan, which is a lot more expensive, not worth the convenience of not having to tether.

Bell certainly does. Telus probably does too.

As for the whole "data/text only" plan debate, I think a big reason why it's not offered is because almost no one would use it. I've met maybe two customers ever who asked if such a thing existed. I work at a high volume location and honestly I don't see people forgoing talk minutes much at all. I guess there aren't that many goons in Halifax (thank God because I have no idea about any of this frequency band poo poo seriously no one ever talks about it here)

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
If you're currently in a three year term and are considering changing your plan, do it now. With Bell, and possibly with other carriers, your rate plan is associated with your contract length. After July 31, we won't have any 36 month contracts anymore. Meaning that if you want to change your plan and you are already in a 36 month term, you will not have any 36 month term plans to pick from (they wouldn't have renewed your contract) and therefore must pick a 24 month plan, which will cut a year out of your contract, and charge you some amount of termination fee. If you are doing an upgrade, this will not happen.

This new poo poo is still pretty confusing right now so I'll update if I learn anything new.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
Heh, I just got back from vacation and I've been getting a fair amount of people rushing to upgrade their phones before August 9th (the new end date for 3 year contracts) so they don't have to pay the higher cost of a phone on a two year contract.

That's one thing you don't see in this thread that I see all the time. People aren't too concerned about plans but by God that phone better be $0. Stay classy, Halifax :allears:

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Aphrodite posted:

Which carrier raised the cost? All the ones I saw kept the subsidy but raised the bill.

I'm pretty sure all of them will lower the subsidy. I just checked the Telus website and they too have higher prices. Presently our price cards still show the lower price because 3 year contracts are still an option for now.

That said, the increased handset price isn't even that much considering you're shaving a whole year off your contract.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

iLikeMidgets posted:

So here's a scenerio. I might be getting a koodo locked iphone this weekend. The person I'm getting it from will be exchanging it for a new iphone since the current phone has an issue with it.


Would we able to exchange for an unlocked iphone from the Apple store?
If not, I assume we will get a koodo locked phone. Would we be able to pay the unlock fee through the Apple store?
And if not, since it's technically a new iphone, would koodo be willing to unlock it?

I would be taking possession of it after the exchange at the store but I won't be using it on koodo. That's why we are looking to get it unlocked.

Apple does not unlock iPhones. Koodo will only unlock it as long as they have recovered any subsidy that was given off the original device. Not sure if you will be given a locked model from the Apple store or not.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Lexicon posted:

It'll be interesting to see what impact the new, terrible plans will have on Robelus' back to school sales. I imagine it will be a huge one, but then I often assume consumers are more rational than they are.

Right now at Bell the voice and data lite $60 and $75 plans (in other words, low/no subsidy for high end smartphones) are $5 off for students.


:yotj:

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Jan posted:

Has anyone ever experienced a number transfer where incoming/outgoing calls were properly moved to the new service, but text messaging remains on the old service?

I moved my Line2 number to Koodo a month ago, and while voice works, text messages don't. For the short period of time I still had Line2 after the transfer, text messages were still going to the Line2 app, which is why I'm suspecting the transfer somehow didn't entirely go through.

I've seen iPhones retain the old cell phone number after a number change and that would sometimes affect text messages, and it would be fixed by doing a hard reset of the device.

I've never heard of Line2, but I wouldn't touch a number port like that with a ten foot pole if someone asked me. I have no idea what kind of fuckery transferring a virtual number like that could cause.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Duro posted:

what are the pros/cons of waiting for December before renewing so I can get a 2 year contract. I'm guess they will make the phones more expensive, but is it really going to be that bad?

They already do this, and yes, it is. Discount brands like Fido and Koodo got kicked in the balls pretty hard with the new regulations since they must have their devices completely paid off in two years. There's virtually no chance of getting that plan if you renew on a new iPhone.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

grack posted:

That's only because they're not legally allowed to make unilateral changes to cell phone contracts.

Yeah, but they can require a rate plan change if you wish to re-sign your contract.

If they do allow you to retain your old plan on a two year term, a more important question is will they give you a discount on a new iPhone? I've looked at other carriers and they all appear to require a higher rate plan in order to qualify for an iPhone subsidy. Last I checked Koodo's standard price for an iPhone 5 was the same as Bell's. I have serious doubts they'd give you a fully discounted iPhone 5/5s/6/whatever with a $57 plan.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
From what I've seen on carrier websites, anything under the minimum required plan does not offer any device subsidy for iPhones. So there doesn't appear to be any middle ground, it's either get a more expensive plan, or keep your cheaper plan but not get a cent off the device, even if you take a contract. With Bell they offer a couple hundred bucks off for smaller data plans with the exception of the iPhone, and even then it may not be worth it.

Also a reminder if you're planning on buying your iPhones outright, get them at the Apple store. They're the same price but come unlocked for free.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
Yeah, you'll be able to use your iPhone with Telus or whoever just fine.

And I also echo the sentiment that outside of this forum no one knows or cares what a Nexus is. The few that ask mostly stare blankly at me when I explain the benefits of a pure Android phone and then go right back to the Samsung/iPhone.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

On the subject of the hilarious use of flawed logic to further their unpopular policies, Bell once released a memo to employees to attempt to showcase the "benefits" of a locked phone to customers who ask about unlocking their device. Such benefits include "competitive roaming rates" (because people unlock their phones to pay more I guess) and "not having to pay an unlocking fee"

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit
No, I don't know when the new iPhone is going to arrive tia


Seriously, 3 hours after the announcement and we're getting phone calls if we have it. Gotta love this time of the year.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Science posted:

Does Rogers still charge that additional 911 fee and other fee that was a blatant cash grab?

Everyone charges the 43 cent 911 fee. It is paid to the government to pay for 911 coverage, even on disconnected phones. I don't think Rogers charges any other bullshit hidden fees.

Also, Bell will not be doing any preorders for any of the new iPhones. They aren't confident Apple will be able to meet initial demand, since they've barely been able to do so in the past. Not sure about other carriers yet

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Lexicon posted:

I was just on the Rogers upgrade eligibility thing chat (because I hate phoning them so much) to get a sense of my current options for acquiring a 5s. To cut a long story short, the guy was saying that all corporate accounts still renew on 3-year terms. That completely removes the incentive to get the phone through Rogers, but surely that can't be true?

I had a corporate client do an upgrade the other day and they seemed to have the option to do 3 year plans with Bell, so I guess it's probably true. That said, I was able to keep the same type of rate plan and the phones are the same price on a two year term anyway, so there was no real point in signing a three year contract. Not sure if Rogers will allow for the same.

The Continental posted:

Does anyone know if Rogers Canada-wide Calling includes incoming calls? Or is it only for calls that you initiate? It's not clear on the website and I've heard of other similarly named plans distinguishing between the two...

It's free calling in or out, assuming it's an unlimited calling plan.

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

less than three posted:

1. Unlock iPhone (Telus will charge for this IIRC) carry on with Rogers. You are not required to sign a new contract with Rogers to do this. Adding data will add around $25-30 to your existing plan.

or 2. Finish with Rogers, switch to Telus. You can keep your Rogers phone number. You aren't required to sign a contract with Telus. You could pick up a plan lik e this for $55/month, which includes Canadian Long Distance.

With option 2, you could choose to sign a 2 year contract with Telus and get a free Nexus 4. You could then sell the Nexus or the iPhone for some extra cash.

Option 2.5: If you don't want a Nexus 4 or can't find one (they are approaching the end of its development cycle), you can switch your number to Telus and use your iPhone 4S with a month to month term and get 10% off any plan. You won't be locked into any contract and can cancel/port with no charge (and no 30 day notice in certain provinces, Nova Scotia, Ontario, can't remember the others)

OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

cowofwar posted:

Will an unlocked iphone 5s from Apple work on Rogers?

I don't see why not

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OilSlick
Dec 29, 2005

Population: Buscuit

Kenny Logins posted:

I'm getting an unlocked 5s either way, and my contract isn't up for another year, but is there actually any money to be saved these days with Bell Mobility by "bringing your own" unlocked phone once you're off-contract? I've heard that Bell will give you 10% off your monthly plan when you do so in the past but can't find anything current.

If you are on the current $30, $45, or $55 plan, it's 10% off. If it's a voice and data plus plan, it's $20 off. The $85 plan gives you 2GB of data, unlimited nationwide calling, texting, voice mail and caller ID for $65.

Bamabalacha posted:

I can afford the $800, but the wording on the Telus website makes it seem like if you want the 5s, you have to pay an extra $20/month, regardless of whether or not you bought the phone outright.

I checked the website and it says 10% off any plan if you supply your own phone. If you supply the phone then you can pick any one, but it's not as good as $20 off the higher data plans with Bell or Rogers.

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