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Deleuzionist posted:I'm so sad that video is titled "Revolutionary Fascist" This guy placed eighth out of fifteen candidates?! How bad were the remaining seven?!
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Jun 28, 2012 15:42
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Thanks to the OP for starting the thread. Japanese politics generally somehow manages to be both incredibly dull and ridiculously crazy at the same time, and I'm glad it's finally got its own section here.This Jacket Is Me posted:As an example, I remember a lot of hand wringing when the DJP came to power over Okinawa. There was a spat between the new PM and Obama, then the new PM resigned and the issue hasn't come up since. If it was a matter of party conviction to bring up the Okinawa bases, then I would assume that the conviction would pass to the new PM, but that clearly isn't the case. I recently finished my undergrad dissertation on the Fukushima issue, the DPJ's organisation and Japan-US relations more generally. My take on the issue is that Hatoyama (the first DPJ PM), who originally made a big election promise out of moving the US Marine bases on Okinawa away from residential areas, didn't really realise the deep-seated opposition the US government would put up against such a move. Before the 2009 election, the DPJ were very much a "permanent opposition" party- they felt able to criticise the LDP and make all kinds of promises that sounded great, but once they got elected they were swiftly faced with the realities of government. My impression of Hatoyama is as a rather wide-eyed idealist who genuinely wanted to make a change, but found himself unable to due to Japan's bureaucratic structure, factionalism (just as much a problem in the DPJ as in the LDP), and above all the US government's insistence that Japan continue to play the defence role expected of it. The reason it's not been brought up as an issue since Hatoyama resigned is down to DPJ factionalism and its own lack of any real identity besides "well, we're not the LDP!" Hatoyama and other smaller factions skew left and are more willing to openly criticise the US, but Noda, Maehara and others are far more conservative, clinging to the tradition of prioritising American relations above pretty much anything. The base issue was essentially one of Hatoyama's pet projects, and now the status quo has returned, the dominant conservative blocs within the DPJ are loathe to do anything to risk another falling out. At the risk of derailing this thread away from Japanese politics, the US' continued influence on Japanese politics- particularly defence issues- cannot be overestimated. Though their occupation officially ended in the 1950s (technically later when you consider that until the early 70s Okinawa remained entirely under American military control), Japanese policy ever since has always had to toe the line in regards to the US' geopolitical goals. Gavan McCormack, author of Client State: Japan in the American Embrace, goes as far as calling Japan the "client state" of the US, where politicians continues to put US geopolitical goals ahead of the interests of their own citizens. Take the example of the Okinawa bases- there seems to increasingly be a sense that Japan's Self Defence Forces, at this point, should be responsible for the country's security, yet politicians insist their presence is necessary to protect against a potential invasion from North Korea. Never mind that NK can barely feed themselves, and that invading Japan (whose defence spending, despite the nominally pacifist constitution, is larger than NK's entire GDP) would be suicide. The Marines are in any case an attack force, not a defensive one. They need to remain there so as to continue projecting US power across Asia. The real threat to the US here is China, whose military expansion has been the subject of paranoid rants by Japanese politicians for some time now. Sorry for the wall of text. I'm really interested in Japan's politics, especially relating to international affairs and security questions- if anyone wants any more information don't hesitate to ask! I can maybe also provide a bit of historical context for Japan's political structure as relates to the Occupation etc. Grey Dynamite fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 28, 2012 |
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Jun 28, 2012 16:24
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Grey Dynamite posted:if anyone wants any more information don't hesitate to ask! What's your take on this military pact with South Korea?
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Jun 28, 2012 16:26
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Deleuzionist posted:I'm so sad that video is titled "Revolutionary Fascist" Well, he did say that he was a National Anarchist on that page.
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Jun 28, 2012 18:49
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Grey Dynamite posted:Thanks to the OP for starting the thread. Japanese politics generally somehow manages to be both incredibly dull and ridiculously crazy at the same time, and I'm glad it's finally got its own section here. It's a little bit problematic to refer to the issue of American military bases as purely one of politicians being slavishly devoted to maintaining the security agreement with the U.S. There was a time, back in the 70s and 80s, where Okinawa's local economy was based around the existance of the military bases, through land lease fees as well as "expenditure from SOFA status persons" i.e. soldiers buying stuff. According to Okinawa's 1999 data (I don't have any more recent figures, sorry) the military bases account for 5% of Okinawa's total prefectural expenditure. Land prices have dropped off as of late, but not dramatically. Ultimately the bases serve to reinforce the Okinawan economy and pump in billions of yen a year. Opponents of the bases, on the other hand, would suggest that the economic shortfall of closing the bases would be more than made up for by the tourism industry, but I'm not entirely convinced by this argument. Okinawa draws the vast majority of its tourism from the Japanese mainland, and international tourists make up a small percentage. Also, there are much cheaper options for tourists outside of Asia in terms of both flights and living expenses, on similar island resorts in the vicinity of Okinawa. In short, the demand for tourism seems to be rather inelastic and I don't think the bases' opponents' predictions for an economic upswing are entirely realistic. Okinawa's economy seems to me to still be largely tied to the bases and although local politicians campaign for the removal of the bases, I think the politicans in Tokyo are unwilling to take a risky gamble with Okinawa's economy. Combined with geopolitical issues and fears about an aggressive China, which (thanks to the Senkaku incident) are no longer the exclusive preserve of the far-right, I think it's easy to understand why the Kan administration wanted to quietly drop the issue.
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Jun 29, 2012 07:53
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You're probably right that most tourists don't care about the military bases. However your speculation about the impact of removal of the bases is only speculation. The problem here is that nobody really knows exactly what will happen. You can point to Shintoshin for example -- it's a massive shopping area/complex built on land reclaimed from the base. Has some of the best new restaurants in the prefecture. And you can believe the prefectural government when they tell you that revenue from the area increased 14-fold as a result of the removal of the base and subsequent development. In some other area it was a 174-fold increase. But these are the success stories. It's not realistic to assume that other areas would result in similar upticks in economic activity, especially outside of Naha. Historically nobody non-military goes to the central/northern part of the island because it's been dominated by the military base for the past couple generations. It's essentially the only thing up there. If they actually wanted to put something cool (economically) up there they'd probably want a new airport, since Tokyo<>Naha is already like the #7 busiest plane route in the world. Farmland? Sake and shochu are rapidly gaining popularity, maybe Okinawa tries to carve out a niche selling awamori overseas? They could go upmarket and trademark Okinawa Pork like Hyogo tries to do with Kobe beef. Who knows! Definitely a big question mark around what they could use the land for, and what it would do for the economy if anything. One thing you are erroneous about is the demand for Okinawa tourism. You imply that it's been static and potentially declining because of alternatives. However it's been steadily increasing minus the past couple years due to radiation/earthquake fears and the economic downturn. If the economy recovers it could be increasing yet again -- figures from 2012 YOY so far have all been positive. I imagine that since a huge portion of Japan's population is due to retire within the next decade, you'll find even more pressure to expand tourism. Yes there are cheaper options like Guam and Saipan but these are international destinations where you may be required to speak English and go through customs. Old people in Japan balk at that kind of poo poo, and they have the money to afford the luxury and convenience of going to Okinawa instead. They may even choose to retire there. You say the prefecture is "still largely tied" to the bases yet you also say that only 5% of the prefecture's revenue comes from the bases. For 5%, most Okinawans are willing to take the gamble. zmcnulty fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Jun 29, 2012 |
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Jun 29, 2012 08:59
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A sexy submarine posted:It's a little bit problematic to refer to the issue of American military bases as purely one of politicians being slavishly devoted to maintaining the security agreement with the U.S. There was a time, back in the 70s and 80s, where Okinawa's local economy was based around the existance of the military bases, through land lease fees as well as "expenditure from SOFA status persons" i.e. soldiers buying stuff. According to Okinawa's 1999 data (I don't have any more recent figures, sorry) the military bases account for 5% of Okinawa's total prefectural expenditure. Land prices have dropped off as of late, but not dramatically. I have a hard time believing that the sheer bloodymindedness about the base situation in Okinawa is tied to revenues - especially when as you say, it's only about 5% of the prefecture's budget.
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Jun 29, 2012 10:41
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Lost For Words posted:What's your take on this military pact with South Korea? Never mind, the Koreans are backing out it looks like.
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Jun 29, 2012 12:18
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So it looks like today's antinuclear protest drew about 150,000 people. Photos from asahi here: http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0629/TKY201206290577.html Watch international media not cover this.
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Jun 29, 2012 20:24
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First a semi joking question: What kind of influence do yakuza have on politics? On an actual serious question, is there any prescence of a green party in Japan? It seems wierd to me that you wouldn't mention one, given pretty much every non starving country has one, even my third world country. Japan is much richer, and more able to act on it, it seems to me, which would foster a social-enviromental party.
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Jun 29, 2012 23:24
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Medieval Medic posted:On an actual serious question, is there any prescence of a green party in Japan? It seems wierd to me that you wouldn't mention one, given pretty much every non starving country has one, even my third world country. Japan is much richer, and more able to act on it, it seems to me, which would foster a social-enviromental party. There's not a lot of actual room for a green party in Japanese politics because most green issues that would be fringe green issues in other countries are mainstream political issues dealt with in the some fashion by the main political parties. In other countries this isn't the case, but Japan's a fairly small an island nation that's pretty concerned with not loving itself over. You can see this in policy with regard to recycling, energy conservation, pollution, etc.
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Jun 30, 2012 00:08
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A note about prime minsters being elected and then resigning: They seem to make the resignation of the prime minster position almost ritual. Why can't a prime minster in Japan be committed long term to the job?
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Jun 30, 2012 02:40
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ErIog posted:There's not a lot of actual room for a green party in Japanese politics because most green issues that would be fringe green issues in other countries are mainstream political issues dealt with in the some fashion by the main political parties. In other countries this isn't the case, but Japan's a fairly small an island nation that's pretty concerned with not loving itself over. I think you'd get pretty different accounts of how serious the Japanese government is about environmental issues and the necessity of more ecological focus depending on who you ask. Particularly recently, what with the radioactive food. Anyway, there have been numerous attempts to start a Green Party in Japan and keep it going: the website of the most recent one is here: http://www.greens.gr.jp/ The main reason they aren't more successful is because there are already two other minor left parties which account for about 10% of the popular vote and there isn't room for a third.
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Jun 30, 2012 04:03
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Jkid posted:A note about prime minsters being elected and then resigning: They seem to make the resignation of the prime minster position almost ritual. Why can't a prime minster in Japan be committed long term to the job? It's a question a lot of people have asked. 1.) The Prime Minister in the Japanese Constitution is a weak office compared to the President in most places or even a lot of Prime Ministers in other countries. 2.) Historically there's generally been a powerful informal elite behind the office. This was more true with the LDP. Nakasone is still powerful in the LDP even though he's in his 90s and finished his term in office in something like 1987. Some of this has to do with families. For example, four generations of Koizumis have held power in Koizumi Shinjiro's district in Kanagawa, basically since universal male suffrage was adopted in the 1920's. Within the LDP, many of these families marry each other, and there are blood-based political alliances. 3.)(my take) In general, it deflects some responsibility from the party if the PM is offered up as a sacrifice to public opinion. 4.) (my take) It's also a hangover from the prewar system (where the PM had very limited authority) in the context of what's generally a very corrupt and undemocratic political system. There's a historical shadow of some other, more 'competent' institution being able to come in and bring some forcible order to the messy business of democracy. 5.) (bonus) A lot of analysts and some newspapers now basically see the elected government as unable to control the ministries, which hold the real power--Japan has a 'sovereign bureaucracy.' By that token, the PM is a complete fall guy with no real power. EDIT: Clarity. Roadside_Picnic fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jun 30, 2012 |
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Jun 30, 2012 04:25
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Roadside_Picnic posted:The main reason they aren't more successful is because there are already two other minor left parties which account for about 10% of the popular vote and there isn't room for a third. Basically this. Both the Communist Party and the SDPJ run on "red-green" platforms, especially since the Fukushima disaster. I have a question for the thread. Where is the the SDPJ's remaining power concentrated? I live in Kyoto, so the Communists are very prominent here, but I can't really remember seeing SDPJ candidates advertised anywhere I've been. I also get the impression that the SDPJ is mainly comprised of the left-wing remnants of the Socialists (The right wing going to the DPJ). If that is the case why didn't they just join the Communists? Is it their support for North Korea that is the stumbling point, or just old animosities that keep the parties apart? EDIT: In view of Hashimoto's rise as the "alternative" to the LDP-DPJ order and the inability of the left to get much traction from the nuclear issue, it seems that Japan could really use a "Left Front" party like that found in France. MaterialConceptual fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jun 30, 2012 |
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Jun 30, 2012 06:06
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Roadside_Picnic posted:Particularly recently, what with the radioactive food. The testing is pretty stringent, and while a few companies have tried to sneak stuff that didn't have proper labeling or didn't meet the new standards, nothing remotely close to dangerous has made it to market.
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Jun 30, 2012 06:17
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MaterialConceptual posted:
Off the top of my head, I think they have at least one district seat in Osaka and maybe one or two more in Kansai? I think they still have a strong base in Hokkaido, from what I remember, and maybe in Tokyo. As far as why they didn't amalgamate the two parties, there's the geopolitical stuff, but I think most sane people would recognize that those stances are now anachronistic at best. the main thing is that neither side would have gained anything immediately obvious from merging the parties. A lot of support for both still runs through union affiliations, identities and legacies of political fights on that turf. A lot of people vote for the JCP or the SDP because those are the parties that gave them their specific job security, not out of a deep sense of identification with the left. (Still more people vote for them out of simple exasperation with everything else.) Also, under the cuddly, the JCP is still a Leninist, democratic-centralist party that makes its political decisions based on a political line, and there's no mechanism for bargaining on specific points. Roadside_Picnic fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Jun 30, 2012 |
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Jun 30, 2012 06:50
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Roadside_Picnic posted:Also, under the cuddly, the JCP is still a Leninist, democratic-centralist party that makes its political decisions based on a political line, and there's no mechanism for bargaining on specific points. Thank you for the interesting reply. Could you expand on this point? I can't say my experience in the social democratic NDP in Canada varied all that much from this description (Policy basically seemed to be decided by which faction seized control of the party leadership and dissenting voices were utterly marginalized) so I'm not sure how the SDPJ would really differ in this manner. The point you make about union-affiliations is one that I thought would be a major factor, but in terms of Communist supporters I think you left out their rather sizable support amongst the small-business owning petty bourgeoisie. EDIT: My view on most social democratic parties today is that they are "vanguards going nowhere." They act as "vanguard parties" of the proletariat and petty bourgeoisie insofar as they claim to articulate their political interests and offer them organization, but have no revolutionary agenda whatsoever. I don't see how either the JCP or SDPJ really differ on this point and would like some more info. MaterialConceptual fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Jun 30, 2012 |
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Jun 30, 2012 07:40
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FunkMonkey posted:It's been only three years since he got rocked by the funding scandal, and he was only just acquitted of a more recent indictment over misappropriation of funds: He has two mistresses, an illegitimate kid, he took months to visit his home prefecture after 3/11 and he is Ozawa. The fact he has some semblance of career is testament to how awful every other loving politician is in this country. Abandon hope.
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Jun 30, 2012 08:12
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hadji murad posted:He has two mistresses, an illegitimate kid, he took months to visit his home prefecture after 3/11 and he is Ozawa. This is a bit of a side issue but how is having a mistress viewed in Japanese society? From what I know it's pretty much accepted in China while it's career suicide if you're found out in the US. I could be wrong about China and I'm definitely oversimplifying things in the US, but Japan is what I'm curious about.
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Jun 30, 2012 16:34
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Keep that poo poo quiet. I don't think it affects the average been there done that politician.
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Jun 30, 2012 19:00
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MaterialConceptual posted:Thank you for the interesting reply. Could you expand on this point? I can't say my experience in the social democratic NDP in Canada varied all that much from this description (Policy basically seemed to be decided by which faction seized control of the party leadership and dissenting voices were utterly marginalized) so I'm not sure how the SDPJ would really differ in this manner. The JCP doesn't have factions--once a position is adopted it's the position of the whole party and the discussion is done. And in principle those positions are supposed to come from a coherent single analysis of Japanese society. So it's difficult for a dissenting position to creep in because it's basically predetermined what group w/in the JCP you would belong to (based on occupation and where you live) and those groups are arranged in a hierarchy at the national level. They also don't tend to have very specific arguments. On class, basically the ruling class is the major parties and the working class is 'the people.' They talk about issues like precarity but the upshot is usually something along the lines of 'people shouldn't be treated this way.' A more nuanced understanding is no problem, but it's hard to find things to actually disagree with.
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Jun 30, 2012 20:28
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Roadside_Picnic posted:The JCP doesn't have factions I'm not sure I can believe you there considering that even the CPC pretty clearly has factions, but I think I can see where you're coming from. I guess I'll try reading up on the party more, because I'm still not really understanding what makes them different from your average social democrats.
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Jul 1, 2012 02:33
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Deleuzionist posted:I'm so sad that video is titled "Revolutionary Fascist" He's not the only one working the gag (?): this guy will show up to your event in his tricked-out hearse (click the rightmost link) http://www.torihada.com/syoukai_top.htm
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Jul 1, 2012 05:29
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So Nihon TV is reporting that Ozawa might leave the DPJ as early as tomorrow over the tax hike. Is this the end of the DPJ, the end of Ozawa, or the end of both?
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Jul 1, 2012 16:41
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MaterialConceptual posted:So Nihon TV is reporting that Ozawa might leave the DPJ as early as tomorrow over the tax hike. Is this the end of the DPJ, the end of Ozawa, or the end of both? Michael Cucek from the shikaku blog seems to think Ozawa's commiting political suicide here. Although, seeing as how his corruption charges have been refiled and the LDP/Komeito alliance are willing to back Noda just to get him out, its more like a man on life support smothering himself. It's just a question of how many people he's going to take with him. e: Also, to move away from this topic a bit, can someone explain this 'microaggressions' thing to me? A sexy submarine fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jul 2, 2012 |
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Jul 2, 2012 01:40
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A sexy submarine posted:e: Also, to move away from this topic a bit, can someone explain this 'microaggressions' thing to me? It's something someone with untreated mental illness dreamed up to explain his paranoid perceptions of the world.
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Jul 2, 2012 06:29
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Well, its official, Ozawa's officially gone. He took 49 of his followers with him, so the DPJ still has a majority, albeit a very slim one.
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Jul 2, 2012 10:58
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hadji murad posted:Keep that poo poo quiet. I don't think it affects the average been there done that politician. Still, since Thailand's culture is probably closer in some ways to Japan than anywhere else in Asia (by which mean inscrutable, byzantine on the inside and supernaturally polite on the outside) it made me think about what would happen if you ever, God forbid, had a female PM in Japan. Of course, the answer is, "Female PM in Japan? Hahahahhaahohohohohoh." I know.
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Jul 2, 2012 11:04
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ReindeerF posted:until it turned out the meeting was only a run of the mill corrupt bag handover and everything calmed down and was forgotten about. Oh man. Possible minor sexual peccadillo? Bring out the mobs. Corruption which undermines the fabric of the state and its instutions? *shrug* Then again I shouldn't be surprised as that seems to be the same is so many other places. It's just rare to see such a perfect example of it.
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Jul 2, 2012 11:30
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Oh good, I had hoped I'd see a thread like this eventually. Can anyone tell if the number of war atrocity deniers in the government is going up or down? Are they being replaced with younger ones as the older ones are leaving/dying, or not? It's still terrifying to me that those views are apparently tolerated.
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Jul 2, 2012 18:51
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Cool OP, I knew nothing about Japanese politics other than LDP were in power almost forever and that Koizumi has dreamy hair.  Apraxin posted:The weird thing about the high turnout rate is how it's actually that high when everyone seems to hate their politicians so much. In pretty much every poll I've seen that asks 'Which party are you likely to vote for?', support for the LDP and the DPJ hovers at around 20% each, and 50%+ of respondents answer 'No Party'.
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Jul 2, 2012 23:06
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A sexy submarine posted:Well, its official, Ozawa's officially gone. He took 49 of his followers with him, so the DPJ still has a majority, albeit a very slim one. Also seems like the Kizuna Party and the SDPJ will be likely to support him. That would bring his numbers up to around 70. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120703a1.html#.T_JGMUiaA0g
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Jul 3, 2012 02:10
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Orkiec posted:Well, he did say that he was a National Anarchist on that page. I couldn't tell. The reference points to the japanese version of the same page, which I can't read.
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Jul 3, 2012 02:18
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A sexy submarine posted:Michael Cucek from the shikaku blog seems to think Ozawa's commiting political suicide here. Although, seeing as how his corruption charges have been refiled and the LDP/Komeito alliance are willing to back Noda just to get him out, its more like a man on life support smothering himself. It's just a question of how many people he's going to take with him. This seems a little hasty to me--if the x-billion minor parties (Your Party, etc.) pick up votes in the next election and there's a stalemate with no clear mandate, Ozawa could swing a lot of weight. Not that this will help anything.
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Jul 3, 2012 02:39
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MaterialConceptual posted:Also seems like the Kizuna Party and the SDPJ will be likely to support him. That would bring his numbers up to around 70. The shinto daichi are going to join his caucus as well. Roadside_Picnic posted:This seems a little hasty to me--if the x-billion minor parties (Your Party, etc.) pick up votes in the next election and there's a stalemate with no clear mandate, Ozawa could swing a lot of weight. Here's what Azuma Koiishi to Ozawa (taken shamelessly from the Shisaku guy): "Without the party to protect you, you will be spending the rest of your living days giving testimony to Diet committees investigating everything you have done in your entire career. Are you ready to face such a future? Are your followers? Or do you actually believe that the LDP, having joined hands with you once, leading to the circumstances contributing to the death of Prime Minister Obuchi Keizo and, out of desperation, nearly joining hands with you again until you backed out after your private deal with Prime Minister Fukuda Yasuo and Watanabe Tsuneo led to your DPJ allies turning on you -- that the LDP will now join hands with you to turf out Prime Minister Noda Yoshihiko and form a conservative-liberal alliance of convenience with you? Do you not understand there is no there there? Does it not enter your imagination that the LDP and the New Komeito, whom you have both jilted (in the LDP's case four times) will not take this opportunity to join hands with your new enemy the DPJ and redistrict you and all who follow you out of existence? That your newest friends like Yamada Masahiko are nihilists, with nothing to lose?" Put simply, the LDP would sooner form a coalition with the DPJ than let Ozawa anywhere near a position of power. A sexy submarine fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jul 3, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 03:39
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e: whoops double post
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Jul 3, 2012 04:16
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I never got how carpetbagging seemed to be accepted in Japan - How can politicians such as Hatoyama and Ozawa represent voters in Hokkaido and Iwate respectively when they're not even from those prefectures and are just using the seats as a springboard for themselves?
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Jul 3, 2012 04:45
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A sexy submarine posted:
I rest my case. But in all seriousness, even if there's no prospect of a coalition the diet still has to pass legislation. I don't think that the major parties can indefinitely ignore the votes of 70-odd legislators on the basis of a grudge. BTW, I have no particular love for Ozawa, but Watanabe Tsuneo is ten times more of a cancer on Japan than that guy. (BTW, no, I am not a Hanshin fan) Roadside_Picnic fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jul 3, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 05:19
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Roadside_Picnic posted:I rest my case. A number of the original defectors have already recinded their resignations and gone crawling back to the DPJ, so I'm not sure how stable the new party is. It's still kind of a moot point anyway since the DPJ maintains a majority in the lower house, which can override any attempts to block legislation by the upper house (in which the DPJ would need to rely on coalitions to get anything passed). That said, I shouldn't really be speculating too much, now is a very delicate time in Japanese politics and anything could happen in the next few weeks.
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Jul 4, 2012 04:06
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