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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Pressuring half of the population to get educated in order to work for a year and then spend the rest of your life in the kitchen can't be helping anything.

I've also seen the point made that maybe stagnation isn't such a bad thing. Japan's economy has been basically stagnant for 25 years now? And it still has a great standard of living. Plenty of countries would kill to have an economy as bad as Japan.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I just wonder if it's really as bad as it's always portrayed. I feel like I've been reading about Japan's economic disaster and imminent collapse for 20 years now and nothing seems to be happening.

Maybe this is dumb but it seems like if the country is growing, the economy has to grow to keep up with the standard of living. But if your country is stagnant or shrinking, do you need economic growth to keep the current level of prosperity? I'm not making an argument, I don't know.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


icantfindaname posted:

Is the Korean political right as awful as the Japanese? I suspect it is, but just to confirm

Yeah more or less. They're also absurdly pro-corporate, somewhat pro-immigration oddly (the Korean left is generally the more racist side), and ultra evangelist Christian.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I would like to offer my support to Emperor Naruto.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


If there were criminal conspiracy laws they'd probably have to do something about the yakuza, maybe roll up to their clearly-labeled public offices and ask them nicely to stop being criminals?

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Ekster posted:

Uhh excuse me, they are a group who deeply cares about traditional Japanese values and frequently work with disenfranchised youth.

They provide jobs for otherwise discriminated against ethnic Koreans.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


There isn't any pachinko in Korea if that's what you mean. My understanding is most if not all pachinko is yakuza owned and a chunk of the money goes to North Korea. The modern yakuza is largely made up of ethnic Koreans and has business connections in both Koreas.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


I'm not sure if it's the majority now that I'm thinking about it but they're at least a huge proportion. I don't know how they justify with all the ideology.

E: Casual googling is saying the yakuza is ~30% ethnic Korean, also lots of burakumin for the same marginalized-group-turns-to-crime thing that happens everywhere.

E2: Also since the yakuza isn't a single thing, there are apparently some yakuza groups that have Korean leadership and mostly Korean members.

Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 10:00 on May 24, 2017

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


NikkolasKing posted:

I was watching and reading a lot of Japanese politics stuff today which dropped several names I didn't recognize. He was one of them. His Wiki article is...something.

Discovering Ishihara for the first time is magical. :allears: He's quite the guy.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Dr.Radical posted:

Sorry I guess I was referring to the city of Edo, not all of Japan. I kind of assume that being a merchant in Edo was probably alright but being a daimyo's peasant in the countryside probably sucked a fat one.

You probably lived comfortably, but remember that merchants were the absolute bottom of the social order. I'm not sure if eta were considered lower or not, I think they were just outside the entire structure of society. A peasant would've been considered more valuable. Some peasants were pretty rich.

From what I've read I don't think it was significantly different than anywhere else. Being a peasant kinda sucks anywhere, any time.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


It's the same in Korea, China makes a little more time for non-food TV so they can have more shows about Japanese people being killed.

Person, locally famous or not, gets a food. Food in question is often completely generic restaurant fare.

Person eats food.

Person shouts DELICIOUS repeatedly while eating food.

Repeat.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Taiwan was the model colony, their first real acquisition and treated fairly well all in all. Hence why Taiwan is still kind of a Chinese-Japanese mix in a lot of ways and doesn't have any real issues with Japan today. They technically dispute the Senkakus but don't seem to care that much, certainly not like the PRC does.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


punk rebel ecks posted:

I keep telling them that Somali immigrants integrate and do well in Minneapolis and in Canada as oppose to the ones in their countries so it is possible but they keep yelling at me and say I'm dumb for comparing apples and oranges.

They're the dumb ones. It's actually an excellent comparison. For all the very real issues with this sort of thing in the US and Canada, the fact is that immigrants (and specifically Muslim immigrants in this debate) are integrated into society much better than in many parts of Europe, say France for example, and you can see the huge difference it makes. There's very little homegrown immigrant terrorism in the US, immigrant communities tend to be a lot better off. You don't have hopeless Muslim ghettos with 30% unemployment in the US. We have rural West Virginia for that.

I mean after twenty years of Emperor Trump who knows but historically, as many problems as there are with US immigration, in the longer term it tends to work out well for everyone involved. Immigrant group X integrates and becomes part of the country and the racist pricks move on to hating group Y, usually with a bunch of the previously hated X group helping out in the hate.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?



Can you guys post summaries when you do this? Not everyone interested in Japanese politics is also fluent in Japanese.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


China's an outlier because one of the very few positive things the CCP did was insist on and enforce gender equality, destroying a lot of the traditional sexist poo poo. Korea's a better comparison and it is pretty similar to Japan in misogyny, though Japan usually somehow ranks even lower.

There's a lot of reasons, mostly around the general conservatism over here. There's never been a serious feminist movement. Also while it's always too tempting to reductio ad Confucum, fact is Confucian roles are extremely misogynistic and it's a part of the societies in East Asia.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


icantfindaname posted:

I think the idea that things aren't just as bad or worse in Chinese white-collar workplaces because Mao said some decent stuff at the height of the Cultural Revolution is hilariously credulous. There's basically no women in senior government or Party roles, I don't see why business would be any different

I mean, I haven't worked in Japan but I have in Korea, which has very similar issues, as well as China. The difference is striking. You are right that the political leadership is a sausagefest but there are professional women in positions equal to or superior to men all over the place in China. My own company is largely run by women, and you see women all the time in roles like bus driver or police officer that are basically nonexistent in Korea. I know a number of women entrepreneurs here and I never met or even heard of such a thing in Korea. There are a good number of major Chinese corporations with female CEOs. http://fortune.com/2015/01/15/the-number-of-chinese-women-in-top-corporate-jobs-is-exploding/

icantfindaname posted:

Also, given the sexual harassment outing apocalypse going on right now in America in TYOOL 2017, the idea that American office culture is some post-sexist utopia is also sort of weird and hilarious

Where did anyone say anything about America? :confused:

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Just never go to any zoos in East Asia. If you think Japanese ones are bad try China. If you want to see animals there are perfectly decent aquariums, or the panda center in Chengdu is actually quite nice and basically just an enclosed bamboo forest for the pandas to roll around in and not gently caress.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Sanguinia posted:

Are we going to get a Japanese Macron in a couple years?

They already do frequently if you're typing in proper rōmaji.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


NikkolasKing posted:

An alternative take on Abe's legacy somebody linked me to (in case any of you know who Noah Smith is, I do not)

He's one of the big twitter dudes who is professionally stupid in public, he's wrong about literally everything he ever posts.

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