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Wulfolme posted:I genuinely enjoyed Soul Drinker and Daemonworld by Ben Counter. Has he not kept up a good standard, or did he just fall out of 40k novel writing entirely? Those were poo poo books. If you enjoy them feel free to check out every book not mentioned in the OP.
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Jul 7, 2012 06:31
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gender illusionist posted:I read some of the Horus books. They started bad and got worse; they're like warhammer fan fiction written by kids. Which did you read?
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Jul 7, 2012 07:41
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^^You missed a spot.
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Jul 9, 2012 01:37
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uXs posted:I've started reading Eisenhorn, but I don't really like it so far. Eisenhorn is too full of himself, too "Oooh, I'm an inquisitor, look at me!" That combined with the first-person viewpoint makes it read like a self-insert fanfic type of thing. If that makes sense. Confidence in his abilities, his mission, and the justifiability of his decisions is what makes the Eisenhorn series what it is, for it is a story of consequences and his slow descent into Radicalism. At the start he's also rather gung-ho but he's only 40-60 years old; later on age and experience start catching up to him.
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Jul 16, 2012 16:28
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None of the major factions are good; everyone's out to look for their continued survival first and foremost.
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Jul 17, 2012 16:04
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Mechafunkzilla posted:The Salamanders are pretty righteous dudes. They aren't a major faction. They're a small part of the armed forced of the Imperium... and don't even have their own codex.
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Jul 17, 2012 19:31
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jadebullet posted:The Tau seem to be pretty cool guys. They would rather diplomacy than war, and would like to see everyone working together for the greater good. Here's how Tau diplomacy works: *points gun* Dissolve your existing government structures and join our highly stratified caste-system empire, were you'll be third class citizens forever. *cocks gun* It's for the Greater Good (lit. "The Tau Way") of all. They're only "pretty cool" in that they prefer subjugation over annihilation of other species, but even when fully integrated they're treated like untouchables by the Tau castes.
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Jul 18, 2012 04:23
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Well, it is heavily implied that the Ethereals have a form of mind control over the other castes through pheromones, which is a likely reason why Farsight broke off (he stayed away from Ethereal influence long enough that him and his forces wore it off). We also know from the Dawn of War: Dark Crusade game how they treat rebellious populations, and I've heard rumours that the Vespid are also being mind controlled through some means, but I don't recall where I heard that.
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Jul 18, 2012 23:55
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Mr.48 posted:Doesnt Ravener and crew use something like a webway (in the shape of a magic door) to time travel at some point? What they used was entirely different.
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Jul 21, 2012 19:08
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Baron Bifford posted:I get the impression that this hasn't been addressed in the fluff yet. I'm surprised, because it's a pretty important plot point. What, using the webway? I recall fluff bits about how Eldar close up or hide entrances that have been discovered, and deal with extreme prejudice any serious attempts to map them. Webway entrances are also apparently completely undetectable (or close enough to make it practically so), meaning no way to find them if you don't know exactly where they are. On torturing or bribing, the webway is so fundamental to the continuing survival of the Eldar species (both Craftworld and Dark Eldar), that it is a betrayal of the utmost caliber to reveal its routes. Craftworld eldar are also highly conditioned against torture by default (dark eldar being another can of worms), and presumably anyone with full maps would have psychic locks placed in to protect the information. Add to that Craftworld eldar being gudided by some of the most powerful prescients in the galaxy, who would be quick to take action against any threat to the secrecy of the webway... There's a reason why the Emperor was so secretive about his work on the Golden Throne.
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Jul 21, 2012 22:38
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They use AIs; advanced machine spirits are just that (more basic ones are expert systems, and lower is just general programming or not even a thing). However, they're not fashioned to think like humans, but instead be like sort of an animal sapience related to its task. You could say, for instance, that the AI that drives a Land Raider is like an attack dog in scope and personality. And that fulfills the edict: you may not fashion an artificial construct in the likeness of man.Baron Bifford posted:I know what the fluff says, but what purpose did the writers have in mind to establish that in the first place? Why did they decide that EDIs and HAL 9000s were unsuitable for their particular vision of the 41st millennium? It was just so that they could use servitors? Because 40k, and the Imperium in particular, is extremely human-centric in a xenophobic fashion. Humans, humans only, against everything and everyone else. Having talking computers or an android is not much more different from being pals with that big warrior poet guy with the ridged forehead, which is completely opposed with what they were aiming for since 2nd ED. The Imperium of Man is not the Federation.
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Jul 24, 2012 20:14
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Hate and fear them, don't forget. Most people won't talk poo poo at a navigator's face, because they're witches that can kill you with a single glance from their warp eye. Astropaths, however, get so much poo poo from everyone unless they're really high ranking.
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Jul 25, 2012 18:35
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There's this thing called the Age of Strife. You should read up on it.
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Jul 25, 2012 20:16
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I think general fluff discussion is fine here, since the traditional games thread mostly limits itself to the modelling and gaming aspect.
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Jul 25, 2012 20:29
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berzerkmonkey posted:As for the Marines, they don't go out and selectively choose psykers - their psykers happen to be recruits who show an aptitude for psychic powers. Except for a certain Chapter that does just that for all recruits.
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Jul 25, 2012 22:00
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mdemone posted:I love it. Like, I don't even understand 75% of what you guys are saying but I'm totally on board. After Eisenhorn read Ravenor, and after that the list is vast, so might as well go for the books recommended in the OP based upon what picks your interest. Do note that HH is best reserved to when you have a good grasp on the WH40k universe, as most of the impact in those novels is seeing the truth and deeds of characters of myth, and the contrast of the world as it was before it all went to poo poo.
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Jul 27, 2012 06:52
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Baron Bifford posted:So Warhammer books generally suck? Well, yeah. The Black Library (wh40k section) is what, 300 books? And only about 20 of those are legit good, with about 50 more being decent.
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Jul 27, 2012 10:16
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Trast posted:Also as far as Pariah goes is there any given reason why Ravenor and Eisenhorn would be at odds? I'd imagine it would have to do with Ravenor coming away from his trilogy still an inquisitor and Eisenhorn being radical now. But in the short story where they meet they didn't really seem to be at each other's throat. Yet. Not at each other's throats yet. Ravenor however, is amazed at how much Eisenhorn has fallen (in regards to the relationship he now seems to maintain with his pet), and I imagine his own experiences with the event of his trilogy wouldn't have improved his view on things. Of course, the books themselves will be the ones to introduce the actual conflict, as everything prior is merely lead-up in that regard.
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Jul 27, 2012 20:47
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Arquinsiel posted:It's solid 1980's coverart and rocked for it's time. The plot of DoW2 has little to do with the DoW novel and outright contradicts it in several ways.
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Jul 30, 2012 02:33
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Finally read Xenos, and while it wasn't a high concept or speculative Sci-Fi novel like I usually read, I still found it really good. While the overall plot was fairly standard, what really fleshed it out was how Abnett is really good at growing characters and their relationships, better than even a lot of my so-called "high concept" Sci-fi authors. In 40k, everything has always felt so inhuman, and to see the humanity behind a character within the most monolithic and impersonal organization within the Imperium really fleshed out the entire universe for me. If you think Abnett is good at characterization, ADB is gonna blow your mind.
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Jul 31, 2012 06:03
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Fried Chicken posted:So someone here (I think? Maybe it was the 40k Roleplaying thread) was talking about how Mechanicum had some big discussions of the reality of technology in 40k so we should read it. So I have started to. I'm something like 4 chapters in and regret it. It is very very bad. This is a bad book. Do not read this book. It changes locations and points of view without proper breakage. It is full of talking heads that info dump when they have plenty or reasons not to. Guards famed for their intimidating silence suddenly open up and talk about their master, their history, and their big plan. It has a page and a half long discussion of how sexy a robot is. As in, talking about "shapely curves of bronze, distinctly and appealingly female". The lead up to Horus' Rebellion is handled with all the subtlety of a brick through a window, with everyone across the galaxy knowing it is going to happen before he even turns to Chaos. What I have to say of the three "good" HH books on the OP (Mechanicum, Outcast Dead and Eisenstein) is that I found the first borderline unreadable and lovely, the second borderline unreadable and filled with plot sins that made me drop it before I got to them, and the third lulls you into thinking its decent bolter porn with its first third and then turns into a boring shitfest. Speaking of which, I just finished Legion of the Damned. It starts strong, but once it gets to the cemetery world, you can almost hear the author go "oh poo poo I still have a hundred pages to go, what do I do?" It's like... the anti-Abnett ending.
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Aug 1, 2012 00:54
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Cream_Filling posted:Keep in mind here that 40k is space fantasy, not science fiction, and, at least before the Mat Ward crew got their hands on it, it was more accurately satirical space fantasy. Reason and logic do not really apply. Part of the joke is that there is nothing stopping the Imperium from being a lot nicer or at least less totally wasteful except for sheer bloody-mindedness. If you noticed this, then, congratulations, you've just gotten the joke. If it helps, most of the real world is also stagnant and oppressive for no good reason. It stopped being that way since 3rd and you shouldn't continue trying to view it as such.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:50
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Baron Bifford posted:Games Workshop is doing the Horus Heresy now, but are there plans in the future to do the collapse of the Imperium in the 42nd millenium? They've expressed desire to do so but there's no immediate plans.
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Aug 3, 2012 07:50
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Warp travel without the Astronomican is possible, however it makes it much safer and easier, allowing for very long jumps and the establishment of relatively stable arterial routes. Presumably, the Emperor was initially guiding his fleets through the warp himself, and as the scope of the Great Crusade expanded, he built the Astronomican and remotely channeled his power through it. That is how powerful a psyker he was, able to power the psychic beacon of such magnitude while simultaneously leading his armies in battle.
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Aug 3, 2012 17:19
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oscarthewilde posted:If anyone has any further recommendations, I'd really appreciate them. Congratulations, you've read the thread title, now it's time to read the OP. On a more serious note, it depends on what you're looking for. Bolter porn? Fleshing out of a particular element of the setting?
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Aug 5, 2012 20:34
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If it were the bloodtide that'd be great; have ADB fix the mess that was the GK reimagining as portrayed by Ward's horribly writing.
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Aug 11, 2012 05:44
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Horus was the Warmaster, having an excellent grip on imperial communications through conventional methods granted by his position, and through his patrons' control of the warp. The entire conspiracy relied on loyalists being blind to their machinations until they could deal that single crippling strike, after all. Basically, only couriers were reliable; while the Emperor felt the use of virus bombs on Istvaan, it was the Einsenstein that revealed just what had happened, and likewise they had no idea about what a catastrophic loss the loyalists suffered there until Corax himself made it back to report.
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Aug 18, 2012 19:46
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I want a book with Andrej as the protagonist.
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Aug 20, 2012 20:33
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berzerkmonkey posted:And there is a 10,000 year gap between "species" of Marines. All of the HH era Marines (Night Lords included) are more "human" than their 40K era counterparts. Dogma, conditioning, and flaws in geneseed have created a creature pretty far removed from humanity. It has a lot to do with the recruitment process, also. Remember that wolves scour the battlefields of Fenris to get recruits, while Taros and co. were already teenage rapists and murderers when they got inducted into the Night Lords. Most codex chapters go for boys just entering puberty, and in the case of ultra-fanatic chapters like the Templars or the Grey Knigths, they do a lot more conditioning in order to purge the humanity off the recruits. But in general, yes, HH marines tended to be more human, the apparent ideal of the Emperor being that they shouldn't become too distant from humanity as they'd eventually perform a more administrative role in his Imperium.
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Aug 21, 2012 16:59
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The Outcast Dead is a terrible book and you should just forget it exists.
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Aug 22, 2012 13:45
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Since the message was so vital and needed to get to the Emperor fast, Magnus basically did astral projection to deliver it in person. So he had his soul travel through the warp, taking advantage of the webway he had discovered earlier, and eventually found a connection to terra itself. He pushed through, aided by a "massive and powerful warp presence" and broke through the barrier to stand before the Emperor. Turns out the barrier he broke through was the heavily-shielded human entrance to the webway the Emperor had been working on. Daddy wasn't pleased.
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Aug 25, 2012 18:05
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The Emperor was working on unlocking the secrets behind them; not just map the existing webway, but how to create entrances and new paths.
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Aug 25, 2012 22:32
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It's a legit good book and the best Graham McNeil book I've ever read. I haven't been able to find a copy of Storm of Iron, though.
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Aug 26, 2012 20:26
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berzerkmonkey posted:Except replace "the Codex Astartes" with "the Bible" or "the Koran" and, woah! People follow it without question to the point of fanaticism. It happens in real life, so why not in a fictional world? Except the codex was laid down by a primarch, during and after the great crusade and accounting for the numerous threats they faced in their conquest of the galaxy and foreseeing for possible future strategic/tactical scenarios, and further added onto during the thousands of years since. It is a sacred text, but it loving works. Saying that a military textbook doesn't account for the kind of mundane poo poo that is thrown at it in books like the Ultramarines series, or that it doesn't have clauses for what to do when preferable procedure is unfeasible in critical situations, is being blind and stupid and completely relegating something so pivotal to the identity of most space marine chapters as a mere excuse to say "Ventris is a maverick, he doesn't play things by the codex!".
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Aug 27, 2012 17:00
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Arquinsiel posted:Using Coruscant logic there are probably horrible steam clouds floating around the planet from all the people and industry. Someone did the maths on Coruscant and apparently it should be physically impossible to keep it cool enough for humans to survive. Holy Terra is a horrible place to live. You can safely assume that most of the atmosphere isn't safe for unmodified or unprotected humans, that the parts that are breathable are kept that way using technomagic, and that the rich or well-off-enough live in altogether sealed habs. Also, the bulk of the oceans had been boiled off long before the Great Crusade, to the point that the blue planet was already a distant memory. How it happened is anyone's guess, but considering the technology available to humanity at the time it isn't very far-fetched to think it possible. Where did the water go? Perhaps stripped off the upper atmosphere by solar wind, don't know.
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Aug 29, 2012 01:49
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Possibly, but it's heavily implied the current state was a byproduct of warfare. Liberal use of futuristic WMDs isn't healthy for planetary bodies.
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Aug 29, 2012 02:01
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Reminds me, I need to listen to the Butcher's Nails. God I hate audiobooks. Why can't it be text?
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Aug 31, 2012 09:36
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Helicon One posted:Ok, now I'm just confused since that's clearly a Grey Knight. It's a shop. He's poking fun at the blood tide fluff. Pretty terrible joke even if you get it right away.
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Aug 31, 2012 18:59
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Baron Bifford posted:What's scarier is that Cuu sounds exactly like the kind of guy who might have been recruited by a Space Marine Chapter. The Space Marines are said to often recruit the most vicious of hive ganger scum (particularly in the older fluff). It depends on chapter; most aim for the strongest on whatever world they have available for recruitment, and in the case that's a hive world, then they'll go for ganger youths. However, once they're in they're subjected to all the rigorous psych screening and indoctrination that makes them proper marines of their chapter. Of course, a proper marine is also up to interpretation on a per chapter basis, which means that anywhere from mild psychopathy to utter disregard for the life of anyone outside the chapter may be acceptable.
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Aug 31, 2012 20:24
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Those are ultras alright. It's just their shoulderpad trims that have green (probably a company thing), and all their iconography is the omega. Alpha Legion have blue-green helmets and the chained A they had during the Heresy is very distinct.
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Sep 1, 2012 07:46
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