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Baron Bifford posted:Been reading Ravenor. Are untouchables immune to the corrupting effects of Chaos (madness and mutation), given that they blot out everything that is of the Warp? They're immune to warp-induced mutation, yes. They're also immune to madness that's directly caused by the warp(e.g. a psyker cannot use their powers to drive them mad, they won't feel psychically induced fear/madness from a demon's presence, etc). Whether or not they can go 'regular' mad from it, though? Not sure, but I would assume that the answer is "yes". I know there's one part in Eisenhorn where a blank sees a Chaos Marine and pretty much loses her poo poo because being immune to the warp doesn't make you immune to regular old non-psychic pants-making GBS threads terror.
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Aug 27, 2013 04:39
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Arbite posted:Is the Emperor sending Russ to take Magnus in and then Horus nefariously telling him to just kill 'em all still a thing? I remember it being vaguely alluded to in Thousand Sons but no mention in Prospero Burns. IIRC, it went like this: 1) Magnus does his poo poo. 2) Emperor sends orders to Russ to bring Magnus in 3) Horus intercepts the orders and changes them to "murder the gently caress out of those dudes" 4) Russ gets his orders to murder the gently caress out of those dudes, not knowing that the orders had been hosed with 5) Russ murders the gently caress out of those dudes It wasn't mentioned in Prospero Burns because that book is from a Space Wolf POV and they didn't know that the orders had been tampered with.
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Aug 30, 2013 00:22
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That never seemed reasonable to me, because I can't see Russ just deciding to disregard the Emperor's orders to such a huge extent. There's an awfully big difference between "Bring Magnus back for questioning" and "Kill off a fellow Primarch, his Legion, and his homeworld", and I can't see Russ being talked into that kind of escalation.
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Aug 30, 2013 00:41
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Nephilm posted:Well it's Horus, the Warmaster and good friend of Russ, playing upon his weaknesses and expectations. I can see Horus, as Warmaster and the Emperor's proxy in the Great Crusade, talking Russ into killing Magnus for violating the strictures imposed by the Council of Nikaea, especially since Russ distrusted Magnus already. What I can't see is Horus talking Russ into disobeying the Emperor's direct orders to do this thing.
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Aug 30, 2013 03:24
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In the Emperor's Gift, Hyperion says "Angron, Lord of the Twelfth Legion. The wider Imperium could never be allowed to know that the Emperor's own sons turned against him, nor that the Gray Knights existed in the empire's shadows, fighting a war against creatures that couldn't be real", which heavily implies that the Heresy isn't general knowledge. On the other hand, in the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts books the knowledge that Traitor Marines exist seems to be commonplace throughout the IG. I can't recall any comments about the Traitor Primarchs, but the existence of the Traitor Legions seems to be common knowledge among the Guard.
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Sep 2, 2013 20:00
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Regarding Flight of the Eisenstein: It's decent by HH standards, which is basically just saying "At least it's not Galaxy in Flames or Battle of the Motherfucking Abyss", but it's still fairly mediocre and forgettable and the main character's story is only continued in their loving audio dramas. gently caress you, GW. I regret buying it, myself.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:45
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It's in Abnett's Brothers of the Snake. I love how the Inquisitor in it keeps making jokes about the Khorne corn-dolls to the Space Marines and gets no reaction at all from them.
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Sep 4, 2013 18:19
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The "standard" e-book of Betrayer is finally out, thank god. gently caress you and gently caress your "enhanced" editions", GW.
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Sep 6, 2013 18:36
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Holy poo poo. Betrayer was amazing. I love how ADB can write Chaos characters in such a way that he makes them understandable and even sympathetic, but without making Chaos itself sympathetic. I did not expect to come out of this book feeling sorry for Angron.
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Sep 7, 2013 23:00
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IIRC, it was already in decline when that happened.
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Sep 9, 2013 07:32
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VanSandman posted:Which is probably the dumbest thing the Emperor ever did Dunno, man. The "Dumb poo poo the Emperor Did" list is pretty loving long.
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Sep 9, 2013 15:26
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Kenlon posted:Reading Betrayer was like an endless series of punches in the gut, since I'd read After Desh'ea right before it. The difference in both Kharn and Angron between the two stories is heartbreaking. The part that hit me was when Argel Tal was talking with Kharn. quote:'We're definitely on the wrong side, Kharn.'
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Sep 9, 2013 21:07
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Jerkface posted:Actually having now read the codex itself, I guess it could lean in the direction that the BT have only 1000 marines, but it doesn't really say that. Though there is also no mention of them pissing off the Inquisition with their boss amounts of marines and accounting tricks. I thought the Inquisition had their doubts about it, but was generally cool with the BTs because of their dedication to the Emperor and hatred of psykers.
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Sep 10, 2013 19:18
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Skulls for the Skull Throne.
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Sep 15, 2013 02:29
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The problem is that they were trying to jump right into the Heresy. What they needed to do was give us a handful of good Great Crusade books so that we actually got to see the players involved before everything went right to poo poo.
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Sep 15, 2013 20:49
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Eh. Mostly accurate, but I thought A Thousand Sons was pretty good. Fulgrim would have been better but I got tired of their whole perfection! thing pretty loving quickly. Generally speaking, I'll read anything by ADB or Abnett, no questions asked, and I'll read others if I see them get decent reviews here.
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Sep 16, 2013 08:31
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That's in Betrayer, Lorgar telling Erebus why Sanguinius will never be turned to their side.
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Sep 21, 2013 17:30
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I think Perturabo's story is honestly the 'saddest' of all the Primarchs'. The clear winner of this one is Angron, imo. Dude is enslaved and has the Nails driven into his head. Rises to start a slave rebellion that sweeps over the planet. Doomed to fail, but they'll die fighting. And then on the eve of their imminent demise, his gene-sire, the motherfucking Emperor of Mankind, appears at the stroke of loving midnight with Angron's sons, who are the entire goddamned War Hounds Legion of Space Mariness. The Emperor's then like "Yo, this poo poo is doomed to fail. Bail on those losers and conquer the galaxy for me." Angron's basically loving horrified that he'd suggest that and his response is something like "Eat an entire bowl of dicks, motherfucker. All I want to do is die alongside my brothers in arms." Angron's sons get pumped the gently caress up by his loyalty and dedication and the bonds of brotherhood he has with his slave army and it's love at first goddamned sight, because that is basically the most important thing in the world for the War Hounds. And so what's the Emperor do? Does he unleash the War Hounds to save their gene-father's army? Does he fight alongside the son that he failed? Does he stand by in orbit and watch his damaged, terrible, noble son die valiantly in battle against his oppressors? Nah. He just loving kidnaps the dude and drags him off without saying anything, leaving the entire world to assume he bailed on the last battle of the rebellion, disheartening his allies and shaming his name there forever. Then he gives Angron a Legion of Space Marines and shoves him out into the galaxy, telling him to go forth and Perturabo ain't got nothing on Angron.
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Sep 21, 2013 20:41
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Nephilm posted:No, the War Hounds didn't make first contact with Angron until the Emperor brought him to orbit, and they were horrified that their Primarch was an insane monster with little of the majesty of all the others they had witnessed. And they could never connect with him, even though they so desperately tried - adopted his customs, adopted his style of warfare, let themselves be violated by the Butcher's Nails, and even with all that they never felt like their father's sons. They did feel like that, later. But at that moment when they learned that their gene-sire had refused the Emperor and the Imperium to go back and die with his brothers? They loved that. In Betrayer, it's said that "they didn't hate Angron for his choice. They worshipped him for it. What primarch better understood the bonds of brotherhood than one who turned his back on the Emperor, on the Imperium, on life itself - to die side by side with his kindred?" And while Nails would have hosed Angron up eventually, I think that the Angron whose brothers-in-arms were saved by the War Hounds and the Emperor and who had a chance to join the Crusade on his own terms would have been a much different man than the Angron who was snatched away from his glorious death while his brothers died alone while believing that he had abandoned them.
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Sep 21, 2013 21:36
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IIRC, the Black Templars could do it if they pulled all their crusades together.
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Sep 22, 2013 10:09
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In the Horus Heresy, A Thousand Sons. It's basically the leadup to the events of Prospero Burns and the following assault from the viewpoint of Magnus and his Thousand Sons. This is the book that covers the Council of Nikaua. Outside of the Horus Heresy, Storm of Iron. It's about the Iron Warriors(Chaos Marines, not to be confused with the Iron Hands) laying siege to a fortress and it is basically  as all gently caress.
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Sep 22, 2013 23:43
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Nonus(the ninth) was taken by Talos as a slave when they raided that one space station place, and he died later on in the books.
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Sep 23, 2013 06:03
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I liked Eisenhorn more because I like Gregor Eisenhorn more than Gideon Ravenor. Gregor's path from "radicalism is heresy" to "Daemonhosts for the Emperor!" is well done and fun to read. Ravenor felt a lot more bland in contrast and really relied on Molotch to drive the story.
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Sep 23, 2013 22:39
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Waroduce posted:A friend of mine was in my car and saw a Horus Heresy book that I had. He read the boilerplate intro before the cast list and asked for a recommendation. I explained the setting of the Heresy and he expressed interest in the primarchs. I also don't think he's the type to enjoy Eisenhorn. I need something a little more bolter-porny with trappings of epicness. I have the first two Heresy books, Thousand Sun, Grey Knights Omnibus, Space Wolf omnibus, Know No Fear and Soul Hunter (whatever the first Night Lords is) not packed away. He's got no background in 40k. What would ya'll recommend? Maybe Gaunt's Ghosts? Granted, that's IG lasgun porn and not SM bolterporn, but it's pretty solid military science-fiction even counting non-BL books and it's a pretty decent starting point for 40k on top of that. Brotherhood of the Snake might also be a good starting point for Space Marines. As far as starting the HH goes, I might seriously suggest "Read Horus Rising. Then go read the Lexicanum page to find out what happened up to Isstvan III, because Galaxy in Flames and False Gods blow. Then do Legion, Fulgrim, First Heretic->Know No Fear->Betrayer, and Thousand Song->Prospero Burns, in no particular order. Then stop with the HH for now." From the books you listed, I'd probably go Space Wolves.
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Sep 25, 2013 01:52
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Improbable Lobster posted:They couldnčt care less about the lives of their allies or the citizens they were 'liberating'. VanSandman posted:'gently caress you, into the grinder,' and nobody gets a happy ending. Those are both pretty much true of the Iron Warriors, as well as the Iron Hands.
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Sep 25, 2013 19:17
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Really, there are no good guys in 40k(maybe the Salamanders?). The Iron Hands are supposed to be the "slightly less evil" side.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:07
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The thing I love about WH40k is that I had to spend a few minutes deciding whether or not that was serious.
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Sep 27, 2013 00:03
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Is that why they have issues with Khorne? Fighting over the skull supply? "Skulls for the Skull Throne!" "Skulls to make the monthly Leman Russ quota!"
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Sep 27, 2013 03:13
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The thing about Cain is that he's not a vile bastard of a character. In the grim dark grimdarkness of the 40,000th millenium, as the galaxy is torn apart by the galactic battle to control the Skull Trade... Cain is basically a pretty decent guy.
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Sep 29, 2013 08:53
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Cain is basically a Big drat Hero, and he's the only person who doesn't know it.
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Sep 29, 2013 22:39
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TheStampede posted:Are you saying the Cabal can make someone a perpetual? That's interesting. Also, I'm doing everything in my power to ignore everything else I'm quoting. Yep. That's how John Grammaticus became one. Also, in Betrayer, it is said by an associate of Grammaticus that when Erebus brought Cyrene back she came back as a perpetual, so he is apparently also capable of it.
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Oct 5, 2013 03:23
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Battle for the Abyss, sadly.
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Oct 6, 2013 21:59
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Eh. I'm not a huge fan of that. The Alpha Legion is good enough at planning and infiltration that the amount of poo poo that would have to go wrong for that kind of thing would feel forced as hell. The AL book I want to read has two different AL squads on the same planet who are trying to accomplish the same goal, but their planning and execution was so secretive and comparmented that they're completely unaware of each other and trying to accomplish it through incompatible means.
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Oct 9, 2013 00:14
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The best explanation for the Emperor's stupid decision making, imo, came from Torgaddon in Horus Rising. "He doesn't understand! The Emperor isn't a god, but he may as well be. He's so far removed from the rest of mankind. Unique. Singular. Who does he call brother? No one! Even the blessed primarchs are only sons to him. The Emperor is wise beyond all measure, and we love him and would follow him until the crack of doom, but he doesn't understand brotherhood." And that's it, really. The Emperor just doesn't understand people. The Primarchs are so far beyond the Space Marines that the Space Marines give each other advice like "Look at his feet because eye contact will make you forget everything you wanted to say", and the Emperor is even further beyond the Primarchs. He's a 30,000+ year brilliant scientist, researcher, and inventor with the powers of a god. He's been so far above humanity, even his gene-altered trans-humanity strains, for so long that he just doesn't loving understand people, and virtually all the monumentally stupid decisions he seems to make are founded in that. Not realizing that his priest-king son was going to have difficulties with the Imperial Truth. Disciplining Lorgar like that on Monarchia, and using Guilliman to do it. The way he dealt with Angron. The way he appointed the Warmaster and bailed on the Crusade. The way he dealt with Magnus. All these things basically stem from the fact that the Emperor has no loving clue how people actually work.
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Oct 11, 2013 07:20
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I'd figured it was just a convenient way to give the Imperium a reason to use slave labor and lobotomized servitors.
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Oct 13, 2013 20:33
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Cream_Filling posted:More like almost everything the emperor did is intentionally vague and mysterious. It's only dumb if you want it to be dumb, since it's basically one big void for you to project your own explanations onto. The problem is that so many of the things that the Emperor did were so dumb that there's no reasonable explanation for them other than "the Emperor did something really dumb." I mean, how do you explain something like his treatment of Angron as anything other than a really stupid move? Or humiliating Lorgar in front of Guilliman for basically no drat reason at all? Letting Magnus gently caress around with the Warp without any adult supervision or warnings? Maybe he saw the future and knew that worse things would happen if he didn't act like a giant golden dong towards his son(s)? Maybe it was all part of his Master Plan? There's no real way to explain for these things that doesn't sound like you're blatantly making excuses as to why any indvidual thing doesn't belong on the list of "Stupid poo poo the Emperor Did".
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Oct 14, 2013 07:16
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Nephilm posted:Lorgar: No reason? Lorgar was the slowest of all Primarchs at conquest, and in every world he set up worship of the Emperor and his writings formed the basis of the Lectio Divinatus - all of this explicitly going against the Imperial Truth the Emperor strived so hard to implement. A Primarch, one of the most powerful and influential individuals in the nascent Imperium overtly disobeying his edicts. After 50 years of telling him to quit it, he decided to show him just how serious he was about the matter. He needed to correct Lorgar, this is true. He did not need to do it by dragging Guilliman and the Ultramarines out there and humiliating Lorgar in front of his entire Legion, however; that is what there was no reason for. Also, letting him spread his Imperial Cult over so many worlds before bothering to correct him? Also a dumb move.
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Oct 14, 2013 12:48
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Vorenus posted:I like to take the bolded part as yet more evidence of Hyperion being a loving idiot. Hyperion's justicar/squad leader is actually the one to ask about this. I don't think it's ever stated, but I got the feeling that they generally assumed that since there's no armor in the entire loving galaxy that will stand up to a single hit from Angron they might as well be comfortable when they die.
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Oct 18, 2013 08:27
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The thing I loved about the Space Marine game is that the single-player character is an Ultramarines captain who is basically a goddamned World Eater in disguise. Warp-resistant with an angry-meter and he regenerates health by brutally murdering people with a chainsword? Tells other Ultramarines to pull their head out of the Codex and think? He's the most awesome Ultramarine ever.
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Oct 18, 2013 22:05
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Reading the Shira Calpurnia books by Farrer. I'd been putting them off, but decided to go for them after reading his short story in Angron. So far, I'm a fan. I'm really liking how he has the descriptions of that planet-wide Mass prefacing the chapters, if just because of the fact that the Emperor would have probably killed the world for holding it.
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Oct 23, 2013 05:46
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