Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Hey, goons! I'm running RC D&D for a few sessions in a while, so I'm wondering which of the classic B-series adventures I should run for my group except not B2 Keep on the Borderlands or B4 The Lost City. Both of those I've run (under 5e and Dungeon World, respectively) within the past few years.

I'm leaning towards B3 Palace of the Silver Princess, but I'm not sure if there's other gems in that line I'm not familiar with.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2014 02:58

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 00:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

The Dark Sun boxed sets are considerably better. I had a good time converting City by the Silt Sea to 4e. It's awesome.

The Crimson Legion one was pretty okay. Arcane Shadows was awful. Forest Maker was salvageable, barely. I was converting/adapting Dragon's Crown, but it has some terrible "gently caress you, psionicists" stuff I had to work around.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2014 00:35

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

DalaranJ posted:

Apparently Cubicle 7 is kickstarting a Lone Wolf RPG. Which is confusing to me because I already own Mongoose's Lone Wolf RPG.

What we need is a Sagard the Barbarian rpg.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 17:56

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

A Strange Aeon posted:

Not sure this is exactly the right thread, but can anybody tell me about all the early imitations of DnD? Stuff like Tunnels and Trolls and Rolemaster? There's a huge gap in my knowledge of fantasy role playing--I'm just curious what these other games did that DnD didn't.

What prompted this is an ad in White Dwarf 18 for Tunnels and Trolls that says "Are you roll-playing instead of role-playing? Tunnels and Trolls is the answer!". White Dwarf 18 has a cover date of 1980, and T & T is advertising its 5th edition already, so it's gotten me curious.

Holy crap are you in luck.

Go here and pledge: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/designers-and-dragons

The 70's volume has all that stuff from the dawn of the hobby. And the 80's book is already out if you're at $15 or more.

e: :ninja:

# ¿ Aug 25, 2014 23:58

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

heh, I get to somebody finally. Both the books that are out are absolutely fascinating. Shannon has talked to pretty much everybody it seems.

It is amazing, and I'm glad he tries to fairly present the facts.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 01:28

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

dichloroisocyanuric posted:

This is amazing and I immediately backed it.

Did I really read that right? For $15 I get all the PDFs? That's what I did. That seems like a fantastic deal.

Yep, and only $10 more to upgrade to a printed volume with the bookmarks, which is where I am. I'd like the 70's in paper since it's got the stuff I always wanted to know more about while growing up. It's also got GDW who started in my hometown. And TSR of course!

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 03:23

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Babylon Astronaut posted:

BAB = 20-THAC0. Also, THAC0 - target's AC = number needed to hit, and for the player to know what AC they hit: Attack roll - THAC0 = AC hit. Just use a hit matrix though, it's faster. I don't agree with the folks that say adding 3 numbers and comparing it to 20 is easier than subtracting one from the other, but it's been said that subtracting numbers from 0 to 20 takes a math savant to do it fast enough to not stall out your game so I don't know.

Addition is good because it's commutative. 5+3 = 3+5

Subtraction is bad because it's not. 5-3 =/= 3-5

I found it really easy to figure out characters' attack bonuses once, then just add to 20 in play.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2014 21:42

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

So I'm running RC D&D for 9 of my closest friends tonight.

I'm thrilled beyond words.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2015 16:25

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Lightning Lord posted:

A module or did you cook up something?

Module. I was going to use the hilarious B3 (... why is there a deadly trap in the corridor between the classroom and library, again?) but settled on The Haunted Keep, from Dragonsfoot.

We'll be using rapid advancement (not dividing xp by number of players) and replacing dead PCs at will. And giving 1,000 xp for bringing or wearing 80's stuff. You know. For atmosphere.

It's just for 1 or 2 sessions, kind of a break from our 4e game, and I want a fun little light diversion. The big house rules are (1) minimum of half HP possible at 1st, and (2) Thief skills add 3x Dex score to the percentages. Keeping it simple.

I'll be running it out of the Moldvay Basic book I've had since 1982, when I began my descent into nerdery. And Dark Dungeons. And the RC I got for $4 from some poor schmuck on Amazon last year.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2015 22:21

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

CountingWizard posted:

36 pages in and this thread is absolute garbage. All I've read for the past few months is how to make playing D&D less like playing D&D, how to add tedious overly complicated rules to relatively simple systems, and how to shoehorn in modern rpg systems into the retro systems.

The reason people play the older systems is because they are fun, and arose from entirely different line of thinking about how rpgs should be played. This thread is the antithesis of fun or interesting. Most the crap here belongs in a different thread.

The recent talk about what a great idea it would be to have more defined class roles (as opposed to fantasy archetypes) is the last straw for me, count me out of this discussion.

If you don't like it, post something better instead of flouncing out?

# ¿ Jan 29, 2015 20:16

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

drrockso20 posted:

my copy of Dark Dungeons arrived in the mail today woo!!!!

Dark Dungeons is seriously the best.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2015 04:47

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

It's worth it just for Vance and Hughart.

For real, the Dying Earth series is amazing.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2015 04:13

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Evil Mastermind posted:

It looks like the guy who wrote Dark Dungeons is working on a retroclone of the old Marvel Superheroes game.

This is awesome.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 22:00

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Covok posted:

Why did two hit matrixes fall out of style? They didn't seem too bad from what I saw.

They take up a shitload of space, and don't really save much time if you have multiple weapons.

e: OSRIC is imo the best AD&D retroclone. It's certainly the most faithful.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2015 23:49

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

obeyasia posted:

Final shill for the DCC RPG Kickstarter I mentioned 2 posts up. 6 hours left, all stretch goals have been met. The amount of free stuff you get with a $40 book is a really awesome value.

It is truly insane, yeah, and I have no idea where their profit is.

$52 post-shipping, and you get the book, 6 or 7 adventures, a GM screen, dice bag, dice, etc.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2015 04:19

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Soonmot posted:

4E question:

I've made a minotaur earthstrength warden and, almost by accident, a lot of my powers knock enemies prone. I could have sworn there was a feat that did *something* to proned enemies, but I can't find it? Anyone have ideas if I'm remembering something that actually exists? Otherwise, I might need advice in turning this into more of a charge based guy.

There's still an active 4e thread, FYI.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 23:44

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

MagnumOpus posted:

Seconded but only if it comes with a lot of examples. I can't get enough of the OSR style. Backed the recent DCC kickstarter pretty much exclusively out of respect for the art.

It does have some phenomenal art, doesn't it?

It's got the panel-van/high-school-notebook-cover kind of vibe.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2016 20:14

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

So this is interesting. Was it in this thread or some other one that people were talking about Gary Gygax's efficient plagiarism?

Looks like the Chainmail Fantasy Supplement was copied off some dude named Patt. There's even a chain of evidence that the authors read the issue containing these rules.

http://playingattheworld.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/a-precursor-to-chainmail-fantasy.html

# ¿ Jan 25, 2016 16:52

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

gradenko_2000 posted:

2. For all the different polearms that were written about in D&D, it does not deal with sarissa?

:gygax:

quote:

3. The AD&D 1e DMG has one set of random encounter tables which uses MM1 monsters, the Fiend Folio has another which uses its own monsters, and the Monster Manual 2 has yet another which uses monsters from all three books. Any idea if any of these in particular are better than the others?

I'd use the MM2, myself.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 15:47

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

thefakenews posted:

So I guess this is the 4E thread now?

Nope!
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3605446&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

quote:

My question is: are the extra points likely to cause issues with using the 4E maths as is, particularly if I'm running Gardmore Abbey? I don't really care if the players want higher stats (as long as they all use the same PB), but I don't want to have to do additional work to increase encounter difficulties and appropriate DCs if I can avoid it.

His defenses and skills will all be higher than the norm, but it won't push his optimization ceiling much higher. The biggest impact will actually be his secondary stat since the primary one is going to have an 18 or 20 no matter what. Still, rolling for stats is ugly.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2016 15:53

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Pfox posted:

Question for discussion - what, in your opinion, are the highlights of Mentzer's Red Box introductory adventure, and what things would need to be updated for a modern version of the same?

Ehh, run Keep on the Borderlands. Give them the proper 1981 experience. Put Bette Davis Eyes and Jesse's Girl on a loop.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2016 17:19

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I'm running DCC for the first time tomorrow and I'm pumped.

What's everyone's views on allowing some ability score increases when hitting 1st? Like letting them reroll 2-3 non-Luck stats on 4d6s3 on that first advancement.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2016 23:12

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I was shocked at how deeply-integrated the AD&D 1e Psionic rules were with the rest of the system. I had remembered them being a weird tack-on, but there's a lot of monsters who depend on them. Not just the obvious stuff like mind flayers and intellect devourers - some you wouldn't expect, like Demons and Devils.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2016 15:02

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Glorified Scrivener posted:

Hope the game was fun! Did you run a module or home brew?

Anyway, DCC isn't too dependent on high scores - no prime requisites and a relatively flat bonus curve, so go for it. Especially if your players aren't having fun with characters with low scores. Although I cherish the memory of my old pathfinder DM's angst over rolling 3d6 in order, I know that's not everyone's thing. If I did it I'd work it into the funnel somehow and give an in game reason for the stat increase - weird radiation, a blessing, house rule a non-wizard patron system into existence, etc and use it as a hook for more adventures.

I guess it gives characters an edge in the resource management mini game of ability scores, especially if they can spellburn. Otherwise it's not going to save their character from a horrible death to have slightly better stats.

Of course, you don't have to take my word for it - let's check in what everyone's favorite love to hate book burner has to say about it.

Yeah, cool deal then. I'll give it a shot.

We had a fantastic time, getting through the first half or so of Starless Sea. We're going to level the survivors up early next session, which should be a pretty big spike in capability!

# ¿ Apr 14, 2016 16:27

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

FRINGE posted:

Yeah, but they also had the most of the basic psionics (the attack/defense methods) designed so that they only mattered between psionic creatures. (Psionic Blast being the exception.) Other than that the powers were easily substituted with whatever near-clone "special ability" could fill the slot.

Yeah, the Attack/Defense modes are often ignorable; it's the rest of the abilities that are a drag.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2016 21:12

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Alright, so while running Dungeon Crawl Classics last night (the thrilling conclusion to Starless Sea), one of the Wizards cast Color Spray. It Blinded the big guy.

So um.

What does Blindness do? The closest I could find was in the Mighty Deeds of Arms's Blinding Attacks, and there was also a bit about getting +2 to attack a Blind defender.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2016 14:39

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Glorified Scrivener posted:

Well, they're blind. Go with that as far as how you think the NPC will react to their new situation.

So when this came up at our table we settled on a +2 modifier for attackers and a -2 to making attacks for the blinded target, deciding that being blinded was roughly equivalent to your target being behind cover. We also threw in the half speed from result 4 on the Blinding Attack Mighty Deed list for the target. We didn't go with -4 from the blinding attacks list because we decided Color Spray probably didn't induce as much shock as being physically struck in the eyes, but that's your call. Leaving it at a -2 also keeps it roughly in line with a first level fighters deed die result of 3. Everybody seems satisfied with that and we apply it to darkness as well.

Alternately, make something up or import your favorite blindness rules from another source. I keep a notebook with house rules and just try to be consistent in the way they're applied. And I may yet get around to grafting on the crit tables from Arms Law.

Yeah, I dunno, seems like something that should have been on that big table. Would have made it easier in play.

I went with the -8 from the MDoA table for lack of anything better (he hit his next attack anyway) but I think I like the -4 melee/-8 missile option later in the text.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2016 16:08

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Glorified Scrivener posted:

It would be easier. It was an adjustment for us not having something like the condition charts and definitions that are present in 3.x and we discussed just importing the relevant section of the SRD, but decided against it.

How'd your players react to the rules uncertainty? If you keep playing you'll have to make more of this type of ruling.

Oh, it went fine, but it stopped play for a few minutes. I'm fine making rulings, and my group is fine with me doing it, but this really felt like something that should have been spelled out a bit better. It's the fundamental effect of the spell, so I was hoping for as much clarity as there is around blindness almost everywhere else it pops up - like in the MDoA lists.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2016 16:41

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Yeah, Target 20 is the best of both worlds, IMO. On the player side, they can go with simple attack bonuses. On the DM side, you can just use oldschool materials directly without even the smallest amount of conversion.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2016 16:19

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Alhireth-Hotep posted:

For both of those, how about T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil?

Yeah, the Moathouse in particular is a great little intro. (Though the evil cleric is a killer fight if they don't level up by then...)

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 19:33

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Angrymog posted:

Everytime I've played in a game that started that we got murdered by the loving frogs and called it quits.

oooooh, yeah, forgot the frogs...

Yeah, frogs are murder

My party had real luck with die rolls a few years back, and beat them enough that they failed their morale rolls.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 19:58

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

OtspIII posted:

B1 is just a fucker of a map, full of weird maze bullshit. If you're expecting mapping to be a big part of the challenge of your games it's a good one to drop on your players early to set expectations. I kind of hate it, but it's one of the classics.

Mazes are one of the top things on my list of Things That Should But Really Don't Work At All in D&D.

I mean, what could be more archetypal? A labyrinth of twisty passages! What could be more dungeony!

In practice, it's just dull. It's just boring descriptions of distances and cardinal directions.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 20:31

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

FRINGE posted:

Oh man, I totally forgot that existed. My memories of B3 and B4 are very hazy.

It's seriously one of the best modules of all time. It could easily become the seed for a huge campaign.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2016 14:54

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

St0rmD posted:

Most of them, really. I mean, there's always traps, but there are very few that are total screw-fests like S1.

S1 isn't much of a screw job if the party gets the poem tho. It's a comprehensive walk through. Like the dungeon's Konami code.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2016 00:50

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

So, guess who's running Godbound tonight for a small sub-set of his normal group who happens to still be in town and available this week?

This guy.

This guy riiiiight here.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2016 15:28

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Covok posted:

That's going to be pretty fun. I've done a one-shot of the game and it is pretty legit. Just remember, only have them roll skills for poo poo gods would have trouble with.

Oh yeah. It was great. It took a little for my players to figure out they were demigods and not little 1st level poo poo-farmers. But once they did...

# ¿ Dec 23, 2016 20:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Session 2 of Godbound is tonight. I'm trying to think of ways to explain how Influence and Dominion work.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2016 14:02

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I almost did, but chickened out.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 06:02

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

DCC is pretty brilliant, and I feel like I made out like a bandit on the Kickstarter.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2017 19:03

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 00:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Jenny Angel posted:

I've been looking into running a 4E campaign but the general sense that I'm getting is that D&D Insider is no longer a functional option unless I'm already actively subscribing to it. Is that accurate? I have 6 books of it including all 3 core books so I'm definitely not out of options if that's the case, but the campaign be over Skype with some remote players so I'm hoping there are some options available that let players access the rules without being in the same physical room as me and reading the same physical books as me

Heya! FYI, there's a dedicated 4e thread here

You actually can still subscribe to Insider; rumors of its demise have been greatly exaggerated. But if all you want is the character builder, there are other options.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2017 21:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

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