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so uh what do you do when you finish a first draft of a book.......... that you dont hate. i've thrown away two books now. this is weird. also when do i start trying to sell the thing
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Dec 6, 2016 08:20
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this doesnt make any sense!!! none at all!!
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Dec 6, 2016 08:26
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start your second draft
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Dec 6, 2016 09:04
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anime was right posted:so uh Take a brief break from looking at the manuscript and start researching agents and how to write query letters if you haven't. If you're into small presses, research those. Make sure you have an idea of what the sales expectations are for your book's genre and try to find out how many copies the small press manages to move in the release month of a new book before you get your heart set on that place. (Never sign up for a publisher/small press who moves fewer copies per month than you could manage as a self-publisher.) In about a week, go back to your manuscript and re-read it. Take notes on poo poo you want to change for consistency or style or whatever, then do those revisions. Write query letters and start contacting agents. Make sure that when you contact them, you follow the directions they've supplied about how to do so and what information to include. Work on a synopsis for your novel. Consider working on the outline if you didn't use one to write the book, some agents will want one and it's better to be prepared. Write the blurb. Take up drinking, then quit drinking.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:34
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Take up drinking, then quit drinking. quitters never win
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Dec 6, 2016 16:39
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Chokes McGee posted:quitters never win where'd the fuckin trump riot go 
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Dec 6, 2016 16:42
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I hate writing! 
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Dec 6, 2016 17:55
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General Battuta posted:I hate writing! we love you tho.
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Dec 6, 2016 18:43
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Take a brief break from looking at the manuscript and start researching agents and how to write query letters if you haven't. If you're into small presses, research those. Make sure you have an idea of what the sales expectations are for your book's genre and try to find out how many copies the small press manages to move in the release month of a new book before you get your heart set on that place. (Never sign up for a publisher/small press who moves fewer copies per month than you could manage as a self-publisher.) thanks, comrade. do you have any resources for finding an agent? i'm guessing one was posted earlier in the thread somewhere, but if anyone else has info on that, i'd like to hear. i would prefer starting on the trad pub route before starting to think about selfpub. anime was right fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 18:43
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:where'd the fuckin trump riot go go outside and look around
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Dec 6, 2016 18:55
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anime was right posted:thanks, comrade. I started by going on QueryTracker and putting in my age bracket/genre, then went and looked at the websites and twitter accounts of the agents that popped up under the search. The agency websites show you if they have enough sales to prove legitimacy and the twitter accounts show you if the agent is a decent person or a dick. Beyond that, you can look up agents on AbsoluteWrite, Publisher's Marketplace, or Predators and Editors if you want a broader sense of what they've accomplished and what kind of success a client of theirs is likely to have. Every book sale is different, of course, but you can be pretty confident that you'll have better luck with Senior Agent Eddie Punchclock and his 200 Big Five sales than you will with Junior Agent Sally Housecoat and her 2 sales to a random small press. PS: Take all my advice with a grain of salt because I haven't managed to get an agent. I have, however, gotten at least sixty rejections, which means I at least know how to find agents. I just don't know what to do with them once I've found them. FormerPoster fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 19:03
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anime was right posted:thanks, comrade. Find books you like which were published recently and which compare closely to your book. Look up their agents, check their websites to see if they're taking new clients.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:58
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thank you both.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:31
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Naerasa posted:I started by going on QueryTracker and putting in my age bracket/genre, then went and looked at the websites and twitter accounts of the agents that popped up under the search. The agency websites show you if they have enough sales to prove legitimacy and the twitter accounts show you if the agent is a decent person or a dick. Beyond that, you can look up agents on AbsoluteWrite, Publisher's Marketplace, or Predators and Editors if you want a broader sense of what they've accomplished and what kind of success a client of theirs is likely to have. Every book sale is different, of course, but you can be pretty confident that you'll have better luck with Senior Agent Eddie Punchclock and his 200 Big Five sales than you will with Junior Agent Sally Housecoat and her 2 sales to a random small press. General Battuta posted:Find books you like which were published recently and which compare closely to your book. Look up their agents, check their websites to see if they're taking new clients. Quoting both of these for later. Thanks.
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Dec 6, 2016 20:33
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Hey Writertards Open Culture just dropped some wisdom for your rear end. (Okay, more than two years ago, but from the perspective of the milky way's existence, it JUST loving HAPPENED.) http://www.openculture.com/2014/03/stephen-kings-top-20-rules-for-writers.html Stephen King’s Top 20 Rules for Writers 1. First write for yourself, and then worry about the audience 2. Don’t use passive voice 3. Avoid adverbs. 4. Avoid adverbs, especially after “he said” and “she said.” 5. Never let Stanley Kubrick pull a face-hugger-chest-burster with one of your stories. 6. The magic is in you, but only in bulk. etc. etc. Read the article to get the rest.
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Dec 6, 2016 21:59
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magnificent7 posted:5. Never let Stanley Kubrick pull a face-hugger-chest-burster with one of your stories.  What?I'm already 20k into my third novel this year and I've got an editor looking at book 1 so...this year was a success? Writing wise. Other than that it was a disaster.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:33
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I realize Stephen King has made enough money that he can wipe his rear end with twenty dollar bills but every advice I'm seen him give is terrible. To me, at least. 
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Dec 9, 2016 17:21
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Chokes McGee posted:I realize Stephen King has made enough money that he can wipe his rear end with twenty dollar bills but every advice I'm seen him give is terrible. To me, at least.  At least his expression of the advice just doesn't work for me. One resource I find myself returning to is the Sin & Syntax style guide. It's brief and has some great examples (poo poo, it's a good resource for a wonderful reading list).
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Dec 9, 2016 17:46
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all advice is bad. feedback is better. just write and have people tell you if they like it or it sucks.
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Dec 9, 2016 22:03
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crabrock posted:all advice is bad. feedback is better. just write and have people tell you if they like it or it sucks. but other people are terrible 
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Dec 9, 2016 22:46
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I just threw myself back into the querying pool after finishing out a writing contest where my manuscript was chosen for a free round of professional editing. The book and the query are both much stronger for the editing, but I'm still not holding my breath about getting an agent to take a gamble on my heroin-supervillain-near future-alternate history. I figure I definitely won't get an agent for it if I shelve the fucker, though, so I'm gonna keep at it while working on something else. Hooray??
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Dec 9, 2016 23:58
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Naerasa posted:I just threw myself back into the querying pool after finishing out a writing contest where my manuscript was chosen for a free round of professional editing. The book and the query are both much stronger for the editing, but I'm still not holding my breath about getting an agent to take a gamble on my heroin-supervillain-near future-alternate history. I figure I definitely won't get an agent for it if I shelve the fucker, though, so I'm gonna keep at it while working on something else. Hooray?? Keep marchin' on. You're definitely not alone.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:00
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Naerasa posted:keep at it while working on something else That's the right approach.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:19
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Keep marchin' on. You're definitely not alone. I know, that's the hosed up part! I'm not special at all because there's a billion people who are just as good/better than me and they're vying for the same few dozen agency contracts around. It's a pretty sobering thought - like, even if I'm not bad, it's still not enough when there's people who are better. Maybe I should take advice from the GBS relationship thread and try compersion?
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Dec 10, 2016 00:26
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It doesn't work like that. It's not good/better. Somewhere there's a fuzzy line that separates competitive, professional fiction from the rest. Once you're over that line, relative quality becomes meaningless. It's not about beating out other people, it's just your query catching the right person at the right moment in the right mood. It's not about you and other writers, it's about you and the agent reading your query. If your writing is readable and you don't quit, you will eventually get through, but don't fixate on it. Your problems don't end when you have an agent; that's when they begin.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:43
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Danknificent posted:Your problems don't end when you have an agent; that's when they begin. how so
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Dec 10, 2016 00:47
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anime was right posted:how so Because you're still not published yet.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:50
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Danknificent posted:It doesn't work like that. It's not good/better. Somewhere there's a fuzzy line that separates competitive, professional fiction from the rest. Once you're over that line, relative quality becomes meaningless. It's not about beating out other people, it's just your query catching the right person at the right moment in the right mood. Yeah, I've read enough horror stories about agents disappearing/publishers going under/editors eviscerating books that I've got some idea of what it's like once you get past the agent hurdle. Still, I'd rather not worry about problems I don't have (yet), at least until I've figured out how to not worry about this step.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:55
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Because you're still not published yet. so it was a hyperbolic statement, ok.
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Dec 10, 2016 00:56
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anime was right posted:so it was a hyperbolic statement, ok. Nah, uh, I think it's a fact (though I couldn't cite) that it's easier to go from 'unpublished' to 'one book' than to go from 'one book' to 'any kind of meaningful success. Publishing is full of crazy bullshit, people get hosed over by agents retiring or houses collapsing or people running away to other continents and taking their series rights along or depression or or or. A lot of stuff can go wrong. e: also there are a lot of horror stories about getting an agent but ending up in submission hell/insane drama
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Dec 10, 2016 01:04
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anime was right posted:how so Because once you have a deal, your editor doesn't wake up in the morning wondering how they can make you happy, they wake up wondering how they can twist your work into whatever shape the market research says is a good idea at the moment. Sending queries and reading rejections isn't easy, but it's not as hard as watching your name go on books that make you cringe.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:07
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General Battuta posted:Nah, uh, I think it's a fact (though I couldn't cite) that it's easier to go from 'unpublished' to 'one book' than to go from 'one book' to 'any kind of meaningful success. okay, that's fair, but i think "the problems actually begin there" is a little inflated sounding from that statement. no worries, and thanks both for the clarity. General Battuta posted:e: also there are a lot of horror stories about getting an agent but ending up in submission hell/insane drama Danknificent posted:Because once you have a deal, your editor doesn't wake up in the morning wondering how they can make you happy, they wake up wondering how they can twist your work into whatever shape the market research says is a good idea at the moment. Sending queries and reading rejections isn't easy, but it's not as hard as watching your name go on books that make you cringe. do you think this partially stems from people making ill-informed decisions about who they let represent them? like, i listened up/read on a couple of things and a lot of people seemingly in their desire to be published no matter what end up letting novices or houses with no chances of survival represent them. or is it really just pure chaos and luck once you get your foot in the door, even with someone decent? edit: and i genuinely want to thank everyone for the help/advice. the business aspect of all of this seems just as rough as actually being a decent writer. anime was right fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 01:08
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Some of the things that happen after signing for representation can't be foreseen by you or your agent and are totally out of both of your hands, and those kinds of things happen not infrequently. They can kill deals and launches and pennames. That bit really isn't hyperbolic.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:17
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anime was right posted:
There are too many intertwining factors to untangle it all, and there's nothing anyone can do to protect themselves from chaos and luck, which affect us all. All you can do is practice solid fundamentals: patience, perseverance, thick skin, and acceptance of the likelihood of taking some hits along the way.
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Dec 10, 2016 01:42
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Danknificent posted:There are too many intertwining factors to untangle it all, and there's nothing anyone can do to protect themselves from chaos and luck, which affect us all. So you're telling me the best advice on writing is that animated gif of the weird little fox saying 'chaos reigns'?
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Dec 10, 2016 02:33
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Writing groups, man. I've got one, it's steady, it's got a few people whose writing i can respect and it's got a few people whose feedback i find useful. But some of these people. Right now I've got an arguer ('you're doing x, which always loses me' 'x is explained as part of the deep and mysterious backstory!' 'when someone tells you they have a problem with x, do you think there being a reason for x is satisfying' 'it is to me!' ughhhhhhhhhhhh and it is one of those sorts of problems where the fact that there is a deep and mysterious backstory reason for a thing is half the problem) and someone who is just so bad, on literally every level, but they're so earnest I just don't have the heart to even look at their godawful stuff.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:51
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neongrey posted:Writing groups, man. I've got one, it's steady, it's got a few people whose writing i can respect and it's got a few people whose feedback i find useful. All you can do is make the critiques and let them go. Think of them like notes you shove into bottles and hurl into the ocean. Someday, somewhere, they might reach somebody, but don't hold your breath.
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Dec 10, 2016 02:54
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Pretty much, I just like to complain.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:03
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Danknificent posted:There are too many intertwining factors to untangle it all, and there's nothing anyone can do to protect themselves from chaos and luck, which affect us all. All you can do is practice solid fundamentals: patience, perseverance, thick skin, and acceptance of the likelihood of taking some hits along the way. Actually if you grab a pyromancy flame and put on Flash Sweat you're going to be fairly well protected from chaos weapons and for luck builds I think weapons do dark damage so just grab the Black Set or something.
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Dec 10, 2016 03:34
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Djeser posted:Actually if you grab a pyromancy flame and put on Flash Sweat you're going to be fairly well protected from chaos weapons and for luck builds I think weapons do dark damage so just grab the Black Set or something. blue blood or death
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Dec 10, 2016 03:48
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