Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Try this: "Really, really, really, ridiculously good."

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Phonetic accents are terrible unless you know the variety really, really well and even then it's dodgy. Irvine Welsh is about the only exception I can think of and even that wears on me after a while. Unless it serves a very specific purpose to the story, keep it out.

I'll debate this; we're all the worst judge of our own accent. We've grown up with it to the point where it's just normal. I've got a pretty distinctive accent but I don't think I trust myself to write it phonetically.
aiff god a priddy distinctiff iksin bud I don thin I trast maisilf t wrait it phinuticully. See? Turrble.

In other questions, how does a paragraph in MS word translate to the printed page? I keep having trouble when I'm writing because my paragraphs look too short in word processing programs. I understand they're getting pushed wide and flat but it still doesn't feel right. What's a good word count for a paragraph, so I know I'm hitting a right-ish mark?


e: in fact, I'm going to try and prove this. Give me a short piece of text to write phonetically in my accent, then guess where I'm from. I promise I'll try to do it as well as possible.

I would say...seth effreckin?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

sebmojo posted:

Kiwi, IIRC.

I can't tell the difference between SA and Australian/Kiwi when written in dialect

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
It's interesting, but I would say maybe too many names in the first sentence. Referring to the king as...well, "the king" provides enough info. I would argue that you can refer to "the assassin" as well. Just my thoughts.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

justcola posted:

I was wondering if/how other people celebrate when they've finished a large project? I'm probably going to finish my book today and usually treat myself with cheap cigars and fortified wine, though I'm thinking of something a little classier this time around.

Good cigars and Blanton's?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

supermikhail posted:

but I've got my own process which hasn't involved other people much so far, and I prefer it that way.

Are you writing a diary or something?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
The worst is in-world quotes.

And the greatest among ye, rise from the smool and wield the power axe against your enemies, for if your strength is naught surely no manmonkey can withstand them.

-- Verse from a sermon given by the High Lord Executioner P'Fluthmoz to the Bhagavad Hot Carl before the great Ceremony of Noogies

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Fair enough..

I'm thinking of stuff I read and think "that's pretty silly," like a quote by one of the characters or some history that has nothing to do with the story being told. I can't think of anything specific though so ignore me.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
I think comma splicing is great, especially when writing in first person or a deep third person limited, since that's how people think. Gotta go to the car, get my gun. rear end in a top hat thinks he can do me like that? We'll see. I'll whip his teeth out his mouth, make him hurt. Then spread his brains across the wall.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Chillmatic posted:

This thread's getting a bit anemic.


So how about a debate: Inciting incident-- should it go at the beginning of a novel or later on, after there's been time to get to know the setting/characters a bit?

I'm arguing with an editor right now about this; she's telling me that most stories should open with an inciting incident. But I really think only works for poo poo like detective stories or similar boring procedural crap. If you put your protagonist in danger right out the gate, the reader won't be that invested if anything actually happens to him/her, right?

Hell, it's hard for me to think of any stories offhand that straight-up open with the inciting incident, and the few times I've seen it just turn me off because it's "conflict" with no real stakes-- seeing as how I haven't read enough to care yet.

Thoughts?

Predicting the inevitable chorus of "Just write it, anything works if done well, blah blah."

I feel like the inciting event, meaning the thing that sets the story in motion, is something that should have happened before the start of the novel, or that happens right at the outset. That doesn't mean that laying some groundwork before this happens isn't possible. It also doesn't mean that you can't have some kind of major catalyst that hits after an inciting incident occurs, raising the stakes of the inciting incident. But I think it's a good idea to have the inciting incident take place at the end of the first chapter at the latest.

I think you can do this a million different ways, though. There are also many definitions of what, exactly, qualifies as an "inciting incident." A character can learn that her estranged father has died (inciting event), and travel to the family home to take care of the estate only to be assaulted by a burglar rummaging though the home's safe and discover that her father's death is more than it seemed (catalyst).

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Roquentin posted:

Write the piece, then eddit

Is this intentionally funny or should I feel sorry for you?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Read a book.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
I meant it seriously. Whenever I feel a minor block like that, I read a new book. Reading is like a jump start motivator to write: what I like in the writing, how I would write a scene differently than the author, what works, what doesn't. So I should have put all that but I thought it was self evident.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

sebmojo posted:

If you ever find your characters answering each others' questions, rewrite.

I get this as a warning against overly expository dialogue, but would you explain a little more what you mean?

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Goddamn, you're boring.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas has some pretty great stream of consciousness drug writing, but that's a pretty unique level of both drug use and writing.

You should read it anyway because it's great.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

magnificent7 posted:

Augh goddammit.

A narrator tells about seeing a car accident involving a driver and a hobo. With a rednecky southern accent:


Is that sentence understandable? I've jumped from "He" being the bum who got hit, to "He" being the guy who hit the bum, in the same sentence. But, it conveys what happened, right? From a technical, logistical and followable standpoint, should I re-word this? It's a story being told by a simpleton who ain't so much teh smarts, but I STILL need to be clear that two people are in this sentence, the driver and the bum who got hit.

It sounds bad and should be rewritten.

He hit the ground [a little description would be nice here]. The driver jumped out and ran over, but there was nothing to be done. The bum was coughing blood out onto the asphalt.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Are you loving serious

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

BlueInkAlchemist posted:

I have a courtroom scene I need to knock out. It's an arraignment. Does Law & Order get that part of the courtroom procedure right, or can I get directions to another source I can draw reference material from so the scene feels authentic?

Law & Order is typically heavy on banter from the judges, and zealousness from the lawyers, but generally they have the procedure correct. Depending on what kind of court you're in (federal, state) the affair may be more wooden or livelier. I know criminal court here in New Orleans has more of a zoo atmosphere whereas federal court is more like a library.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Also if you are doing a scene in Federal court where someone is getting sentenced, remember federal sentences run in months, not years, and are based on guidelines.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

TheRamblingSoul posted:

Thank you for the advice.

I was worried because I was thinking over the other narrative-style I was imagining (ie present-tense narrator is talking to a therapist as an actual character)

Here's an example [not actually going to be in the story]:
---
I craned my neck and looked askance at Bob, my therapist. "Really, you want me to tell everything?"

"Yes, of course, Shane. Why don't you start from the beginning?"

I sighed. "Well, if you insist..."

[Past narrative starts here]

It all started one day at the zoo. Bill was... (etc. etc.)

"Hey Shane, you dummy!" Bill said to me.

I looked over at him (etc. etc.)

"And then what?" my therapist asked. (etc. etc.)
---

I think "double-layering" the narrative like that, actually writing it out now, would make the story needlessly convoluted and distract the reader instead of immersing them. I think it's better just to jump straight into the narrative and act as if the reader is the invisible therapist.


I think you have the right idea. You are better off writing this in a way that is clearly narrative. What I mean is instead of relating all of the dialogue like you do, just tell the story. Imagine yourself as the guy sitting in the chair, talking to your therapist (i.e. your readers). Anything else is absolutely too convoluted.

e.g.:

quote:

Look Bob, seeing as you charge by the hour I don't mind getting straight to the point. My dick stays limper than a wet hot dog bun, even when I'm watching dogfucking.

Well, it's been going on for a while, I...you want the whole story? Fine. It all started at the zoo...

And to answer your other question about paragraphs, if I understand you correctly, you break up paragraphs within spoken dialogue by starting a new paragraph with an open quotation mark (but don't close the end of the paragraph). Like this:

quote:

"I was explaining to this guy how to write dialogue. Well, it was more about punctuation than actually how to write dialogue, but I'm pretty sure he would benefit from learning how to write dialogue, considering how bad the stuff he posted was.

"The next time I saw his story, it was much better."

  • Locked thread