PoshAlligator posted:

To chime in with my own handy dandy productivity tip: no matter what you do one day you WILL die. Get going.

Mr_Wolf posted:

Being called a Peep Show hack is my greatest moment in my short time in the Thunderdome.

When you say " a bit borrowed" do you mean heavily influenced by something (Peep Show) or actually i'm a disgusting little coward who ripped the story from somewhere? If it's the former: then yes. If it's the latter: while i am a disgusting little coward, the story is my own.

Thanks for the crit too.

CB_Tube_Knight posted:

This is probably going to get me a lot of poo poo, but after sitting down with Bioshock Infinite's final DLC last night I am thinking I'm going to go back and finish this fan fiction piece I had set in the game world because it had a lot of readers at a time and it was a promising project, but also because it couldn't hurt anything as long as I treat it like something I'm going to sell, but can't.

I know the general consensus on fan fiction around here and I know I have a novel I'm working on, but I've been wanting to do this for a while and I don't think I'll just be able to let it go. I'm going to wrap it up nice and neat and edit it for a final posting.

CB_Tube_Knight posted:

Thing is that I am not dreading work on the novel and I don't see the difference between stuff like this and what people do with the contests here and the like. Not everyone is going to have the same trouble splitting their time.

Opposing Farce posted:

This actually sort of ties into something I've been thinking about/struggling with for a while, so I'll springboard it into a question of my own.

In general I approach fiction through characters first and foremost, and that's where I start most stories. I'll have my protagonist (at least a general sense of who they are, their personality, their values, their skills and their flaws, where they come from and how it's shaped them), some supporting characters or antagonists that'll bounce off of them well or serve as interesting foils, an idea of what the story is about in a grand thematic sense, and a few specific ideas for story beats (ranging anywhere from vague "I'd like to write this kind of story" plot/genre ideas to specific scenes or even just snippets of dialog). Ultimately, though, all of that isn't very useful without a strong plot to pull it together, and that can be a real stumbling block. Coming up with a plot isn't necessarily difficult; it usually only takes a little bit of time for all those individual ideas to start naturally stitching themselves together into a coherent narrative: if the shootout is the climax, then the protagonist's burnt-out cop buddy is the most logical way to get us there, so we need a a reason to have them working together on this case, which means we start with the hero coming on as a consultant; etc., etc. It works, more or less, but ultimately I'm just connecting the dots and that's what the plot ends up feeling like. Does anybody have advice for going from the concept stage to specific beat-by-beat plotting without falling into the "and then, and then, and then..." trap?

blue squares posted:

If you haven't read infinite jest, you're missing out on some of the best writing... ever. It's the best book I've ever read.

Sithsaber posted:

It's not what I thought it was. What I meant was a story that referenced itself and what was being thought about when I got the idea for the story.

Symptomless Coma posted:

To that point: I see a lot of people writing about writing, and a lot of people asking abstract questions - and yes, a lot of people critiquing responses to the esoteric challenges of Thunderdome - but I don't see a lot of writing.

Not a lot of, "here's a story I wrote, in its entirety. What do you all think?" And that seems odd, because asking that question of that output is the only real question there is at stake. It's the only question that exists in the marketplace, after all. And no, it doesn't belong in this thread but it does belong in CC, and it seems like the writing community here is watching this thread instead of putting themselves out there. This isn't to chastise anyone in any way, but I'm ready to crit as best as I can. So wither the stories, everyone?

Sithsaber posted:

1. I had to hold off on the library today. Some of us have jobs.

2. Why wouldn't I ask questions about punctuation? Your whining is stupid.

3. Fandom is basically a different medium.

4. Tomorrow you whiner. I don't have WiFi.

Sithsaber posted:

That loser was referencing something I texted last month. TEXTED. I even had a disclaimer complaining about how I lost most of it when messing with gmail drafts. The only thing that I've seriously posted here that ended up horrible was Harmonshock, and that was a parody I lost interest in on day one and only completed because I needed to practice following through. (In my head it was a screenplay I never got around to editing)

Ps. And tell that other guy that we can both gently caress off. I'm not going to apologize for getting people's take on a sentence I was hung up on.

Pps. Thanks for reminding me about that book. I should probably read it before I order Zarathustra.

Chillmatic posted:

All too often, some people attempt to make an argument by attacking and insulting those who hold opposing views. Mr. Sithsaber's remonstrations are a perfect example. Before I launch into my main topic, I want to make a few matters crystal-clear: (1) Sithsaber brandishes the word “crystallographically” as a kind of up-to-date jack-o'-lantern to scare children, and (2) as a result of that, the world would be a much better place to live if Sithsaber just stopped trying to feed us ever-larger doses of his lies and crackpot assumptions. Now that you know where I stand on those issues, I can safely say that I want to thank him for his surmises. They give me an excellent opportunity to illustrate just how feral Sithsaber can be. Life isn't fair. We've all known this since the beginning of time, so why is he so compelled to complain about situations over which he has no control? The complete answer to that question is a long, sad story. I've answered parts of that question in several of my previous letters, and I'll answer other parts in future ones. For now, I'll just say that it's easy enough to hate him any day of the week on general principles. But now I'll tell you about some very specific things that he is up to, things that ought to make a real Sithsaber-hater out of you. First off, he has a well-exercised contempt for other cultures. The mere mention of that fact guarantees that this letter will never get published in any mass-circulation periodical over which Sithsaber has any control. But that's inconsequential because honor means nothing to Sithsaber. Principles mean nothing to Sithsaber. All he cares about is how best to use our weaknesses to his advantage.

Whenever there's an argument about Sithsaber's devotion to principles and to freedom, all one has to do is point out that we have our work cut out for us. That should settle the argument pretty quickly. When I hear Sithsaber's blackshirts parrot the party line—that our elected officials should be available for purchase by special-interest groups—I see them not as people but as machines. The appropriate noises are coming out of their larynges, but their brains are not involved as they would be if they were thinking about how Sithsaber surely wants me to develop an eating disorder. If I did, I'm sure the chortles from Sithsaber and his band would be rich and prolonged, especially given how Sithsaber adamantly maintains that Man's eternal search for Truth is a challenge to be avoided at all costs. Such beliefs would be entirely factual if it weren't for reality. As it stands, Sithsaber's notions are destructive. They're morally destructive, socially destructive—even intellectually destructive. And, as if that weren't enough, Sithsaber makes a living out of Maoism. I call this tactic of his “entrepreneurial Maoism”. Sithsaber and his toadies have indubitably raised entrepreneurial Maoism to a fine art by using it to establish a world government complete with a world army, a world parliament, a world court, and numerous other agencies that subvert time-tested societal norms.

We must stop tiptoeing and begin marching boldly and forthrightly towards our goal, which is to lead us all toward a better, brighter future. Double standards are always domineering. Nevertheless, I can state with absolute certainty that I call upon Sithsaber to stop his oppression, lies, immorality, and debauchery. I call upon him to be a man of manners, principles, honour, and purity. And finally, I call upon him to forgo his desire to let advanced weaponry fall into the hands of the worst sorts of loud snobs there are. If anything, he is squarely in favor of antagonism and its propensity to let antisocial lowbrows serve as our overlords. This is so typical of Sithsaber: he condemns bigotry and injustice except when it benefits him personally. While he has been beating the drums of communism, I've been trying to take stock of what we know, identify areas for further research, and provide a useful starting point for debate on his unforgiving projects. In doing so, I've learned that Sithsaber says that he would sooner give up money, fame, power, and happiness than perform a horny act. Although Sithsaber indeed cut that statement out of whole cloth, it's easy for us to shake our heads at his foolishness and cowardice. It's easy for us to exclaim that we should bring important information about his hectoring writings into the limelight. It's easy for us to say, “From the very beginning, rotten, cruel mob bosses have labored to recruit into their ranks the sons and daughters of the powerful, famous, and rich.” The point is that it's easy for us to say these things because there is something grievously wrong with those wily publicity hounds who demand special treatment that, in many cases, borders on the ridiculous. Shame on the lot of them!

Sithsaber has been trying for some time to convince people that he has been robbed of all he does not possess. Don't believe his hype! Sithsaber has just been offering that line as a means to oppose the visceral views of 98 percent of the nation's citizens. I hereby publicly condemn his Pecksniffian, tartarean activities. In doing so, I publicly proclaim that it's undoubtedly astounding that Sithsaber has somehow found a way to work the words “interparenthetically” and “archaeopterygiformes” into his policies. However, you may find it even more astounding that he claims that the Scriptures are responsible for his infernal thoughts and fancies. This eisegetical fantasy is not only foolish, but it fails to consider that I hate it when people get their facts utterly wrong. For instance, whenever I hear some corporate fat cat make noises about how the cure for evil is more evil, I can't help but think that in my observations upon sciolism, I have expressed no opinion thus far of the mode of its extinguishment or melioration. I will note, however, though I still have nothing to propose, that I must admit that I've read only a small fraction of Sithsaber's writings. (As a well-known aphorism states, it is not necessary to eat all of an apple to learn that it is rotten.) Nevertheless, I've read enough of Sithsaber's writings to know that my goal is to get Sithsaber to realize that his warnings are as appealing as braces, acne, and a wooden leg at the senior prom. Of course, if he insists on remaining an ignorant, uninformed, and ill-informed spiv, that's his prerogative.

Don't kid yourself: I'm sure Sithsaber wouldn't want me to eavesdrop on his secret conversations. So why does he want to shock and stampede the public into accepting total fascist tyranny? He doesn't want you to know the answer to that question; he wants to ensure you don't reach the broadest possible audience with the message that this is an exceptionally convincing illustration of the power wielded by Sithsaber and of the destructive way in which he uses that power. Is it any wonder that juxtaposed to this is the idea that he is bound to have a rude awakening when he finally realizes how few people approve of his militant, ribald bromides? He has already begun lowering scholastic standards. I wish I were joking, but I'm not. What's more, finding the best way to test the assumptions that underlie Sithsaber's philippics is a challenging problem indeed. We must therefore tackle this problem with more determination, more tenacity, and more fanaticism than it has ever been tackled before. Only then will people realize that there appears to be some disagreement in the community regarding the number of times that Sithsaber has been seen emptying the meaning of such concepts as “self,” “justice,” “freedom,” and other profundities. Some say once; some say five times; some say a dozen times or more. The point is not to quibble over numbers or anything like that but rather to clarify that Sithsaber's bilious plans for the future are anchored in the divisiveness of the past. Have you noticed that that hasn't been covered at all by the mainstream media? Maybe they're afraid that Sithsaber will retaliate by tricking our children into adopting unconventional, disapproved-of opinions and ways of life.

Impolitic scofflaws have increasingly been practicing human sacrifice on a grand scale in some sort of sappy death cult. Sithsaber has a lot to answer for in regard to that. His “I'm right and you're wrong” attitude is querulous because it leaves no room for compromise. To give the devil his due, I'm impressed with how efficiently Sithsaber manages to sully a profession that's already held in low esteem, especially given that the implications of this are obvious. To spell it out, though, if today we don't issue a call to conscience and reason, then tomorrow we'll have to put up with him changing children's values from those taught in the home to those considered chic by garrulous dopeheads. Let me go on record as saying that he has nothing but contempt for you, and you don't even know it. That's why I feel obligated to inform you that he has no fixed ethical principles. I put that observation into this letter just to let you see that to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of invidious, narrow-minded phlyarologists it has to be repeated at least fifty times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following fifty times, but in his quest to persecute the innocent and let the guilty go unpunished he has left no destructive scheme unutilized.

I'm not a psychiatrist. Sometimes, though, I wish I were, so that I could better understand what makes people like Sithsaber want to take over society's eyes, ears, mind, and spirit. Given the doolally political rhetoric of our times, he is out to foster suspicion—if not hatred—of “outsiders”. And when we play his game, we become accomplices.

Sithsaber's servitors have been staggering around like punch-drunk fighters hit too many times—stunned, confused, betrayed, and trying desperately to rationalize Sithsaber's heartless, unmannerly cajoleries. It is not a pretty sight. I once told Sithsaber that he bases his announcements on the belief that one hallmark of an advanced culture is the rejection of rationalism. How did he respond to that? He proceeded to curse me off using a number of colorful expletives not befitting this letter, which serves only to show that we need to hinder the power of feckless backstabbers like Sithsaber. Why? Because of what's at stake: literally everything.

Sithsaber has indicated that if we don't let him dress up his profit motive in the cloak of selfless altruism then he'll be forced to silence any criticism of the brainwashing and double standards that he has increasingly been practicing. That's like putting rabid attack dogs in silk suits. In other words, Sithsaber has issued us a thinly veiled threat that's intended primarily to scare us away from the realization that many of us are too naïve and trusting. It takes a lot of convincing to get us to see a person as inherently appalling or inherently squalid. Alas, Sithsaber is doing all he can to provide us with unmistakable proof that he is inherently both. For instance, Sithsaber is addicted to the feeling of power, to the idea of controlling people. Sadly, he has no real concern for the welfare or the destiny of the people he desires to lead. Given that this was true long before the latest scandal broke, he is presumptively eager to promote mediocrity over merit.

Socrates was condemned to death by the city of Athens for his views. I hope I don't receive the same treatment for saying that some oppressive, headstrong demagogues are actually considering helping Sithsaber distract attention from more important issues. How quickly such people forget that they were lied to, made fun of, and ridiculed by Sithsaber on numerous occasions. Knowledge is the key that unlocks the shackles of bondage. That's why it's important for you to know that I don't see how Sithsaber can build a workable policy around wishful thinking draped over a morass of confusion (and also, as we'll see below, historical illiteracy), then impose it willy-nilly on a population by force. I'm not saying that it can't possibly be done but rather that Sithsaber should think about how his outbursts lead noxious, insufferable curmudgeons to change the course of history. If Sithsaber doesn't want to think that hard, perhaps he should just keep quiet. All right, I think I've said enough about how you'll never hear Mr. Sithsaber admit he made a mistake. I'd be curious to see if Sithsaber has a persuasive rebuttal.

DivisionPost posted:

And also, when Chillmatic posts like he did above, you listen. He's twice the motherfucker we aspire to be.

magnificent7 posted:

You guys are amazing writers, but I don't get your stories. I can't get through them. Your feedback is always fantastic, but the stories you write in TD - the ones that win, that are leading the curve, that's some literary stuff that's beyond me. And y'all tend to get seriously hostile when a person intentionally counters your advice.

I realize I'm exposing myself to the wrath of Sebmo, Rhino, Crabrock, Systran, Muffin, Mercedes and all the other top-level contributors in this forum by saying this stuff, but all too often you guys intimidate the poo poo out of me as a creative person, trying to find my own voice.

I don't need hugs and a big gold star sticker on my shirt, but goddamn. What's keeping me from writing right now? Internal conflict between my vision, and overwhelming feedback from people whose writing I admire, but don't understand.

Sithsaber posted:

I get what you're saying but one of of the guys in the sister thread did tell me not to question his critiques before he moved on to the next one.This is odd because some of us want a bit of give or take we can think about instead of simple editing.

Ps. He didn't edit anything. I think he meant that I shouldn't get touchy about advised corrections/ "excuses".

How would you guys handle train of thought? How does it fare when the writer is playing with omission?

FouRPlaY posted:

The Worst Muse Twitter feed is showing promise:

DivisionPost posted:

PoshAlligator posted:

Also something that came up in the crit for a short story in the writing group I thought might be good to discuss: how do people find coming back to stories they wrote a very long time ago? I've had this story that has gone through several rewrites, and I feel like since I first wrote the very different first draft I've changed a lot as a person as well as a writer. But it's hard to apply that to what I've already written, and even when I try to write around it its hard not to slip into what was before. Has anyone successfully managed to save something like that?

e:
I'm hoping the suggested tense change will free me from my shackles as I still kind of like the core story.

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

Don't do this. People keep sending me private messages saying it's toooo loooooong and they don't want to look at it. I think Echo has been the only one to tackle the huge unforgiving mountain that is 1/6 of a regular novel.

PoshAlligator posted:

Also is the Writer Goons writing group dead now?

God Over Djinn posted:

Hope this isn't too forward but if you ever want to talk writing (or whatever) over beers, CC regulars myself, Sitting Here, and Nethilia are all in your area & not axe murderers

systran posted:

i met a writer irl once and he wrote literary fic, then when I told him I mostly do spec fic it was very awkward and I hope I never meet a writer irl again

systran posted:

I wouldn't mind meeting you again though, friend

blue squares posted:

hey circlejerkers, tell me how to get out of a stuck middle

crabrock posted: