Fiction Writing: Advice and Discussion

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The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
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Skysteak I don't mean to pick on you but is there a reason why your last 4-5 responses to this thread are about how natural ability trumps over hard work and practice?

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Dec 17, 2012

# ¿ Dec 17, 2012 07:53

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 10:07

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supermikhail posted:

And everyone else's ideas keep working out, as in, a friend won NaNoWriMo this year with 100k. Fuckin' winners. (For the record, I didn't participate this year because I had begun my latest attempt at a novel before November.)

Before you consider whether they have "won" I would suggest you read their 100k output and reconsider. Most novels from that month are barely edited rush jobs and padded with words just to reach the target word count which is not the way for novels to be written.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2012 11:44

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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Minor silly question, in the world I'm building, the country which is a rough equivalent to China is called Xiang (pronounced _ecks-AYE-eng [which is often mangled into sigh-eng.])

There is a city in China called Xi An 西安 and pronounced as "See Aren't" though. Are you sure you want to name it that?

# ¿ Jan 7, 2013 10:50

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If you (like me) do not have the time to pick up books or because your work involves so much reading of corporate documents, subscribing to a newsletter or a mailing list that sends you short stories or quick reads can help. http://www.delanceyplace.com/index.php is a good start.

# ¿ May 14, 2013 03:22

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The Duke of Avon posted:

I hardly like anything that anyone writes and a lot of what I enjoy is widely considered to be trash.

What do you read?

PS: What do you write considering you have no ideas?

# ¿ May 25, 2013 13:00

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crabrock posted:

No, I think you've come to the perfect place to get better. Other writing threads will sugarcoat things and keep you chasing your tail. Here people are giving you real advice for how to get better.

I'm going to echo this because it's one of the better places to improve your writing. TD is meant to be strictly about not providing a "hugbox" effect you see in a lot of other online writing groups (nanowrimo forums are a great example), so the (potentially unfortunate) truth is that you won't be cuddled for producing rubbish and people will not stop to consider whether their criticism makes you sad. There's also, generally, an attempt by inthread goons to give good crits, so even amidst the kayfabe and "lol it's rubbish" posts there'd be someone to make a serious evaluation of your work. You can even request for one if you're truly unsatisfied, and people will usually be willing to help as long as you express a wish to learn from the process.

If you are currently feeling burnt out by writing and getting crit, I'm going to reiterate Noah's proposal that, regardless if you are acting as judge this week, to try to read some submissions and crit them. I've mentioned it in one of my judging weeks before, but doing this will help you think more about the writing process - what sort of things work/don't work, and why they work/don't.

# ¿ May 29, 2013 04:16

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Why are you taking this so personally. Just like you shouldn't treat your writings as your babies, you shouldn't treat advice you have given that way too.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 02:25

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Chillmatic posted:

I think Thunderdome is a great idea to get feedback from outside the (incredibly) harmful echo chamber of friends and family, but a significant amount of the feedback I've seen there is long on vitriol and short on specifics.

Chillmatic posted:

God, how long did it take for you to become worth a poo poo as a musician? Did you "just play" all the time until you became awesome? Or, perhaps, did a few people along the way show you what you needed to know and give you the tools you needed to be successful? Maybe you did some research into the craft of music?

Do what you want, man. But consider how pathetic it looks for you to continue on a path that has thus far amounted to a grand total of:

Chillmatic posted:

Interesting. I'll certainly look forward to seeing how Mag7 improves under your guidance!

On another note I just want to point out you are currently guilty of what you are accusing other people of (as emphasized in bold above in your first quote), so you might want to :chillpill:

and be less insulting to mag7 and crabrock.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 03:09

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There is no reason why you can't have the character flaw of your beautiful babby hero be a personality or psychological one, rather than something as shallow as not being able to lift more weights or solve more maths equations.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2013 11:33

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I've been told off for using too much purple prose before, so I just want to figure out when exactly is too much. This is an older flash fiction I put up on TD previously that people seemed to but have issues on its purple-ness (with ending rewritten a little for flow). Would appreciate if you guys could help:

quote:

Michael saw the thing on the floor, and lowered his rifle. The draught of mountain air had already filled the cabin, and he closed the door before the chill of an expiring autumn pained his bones.

He hung the hares, left his rifle on the table, and sat down beside his visitor. She was young, so very young, skin the pale pink of lousewort and hair, marsh marigold without a wisp of gray. So unlike him. Her eyes were like rainclouds at twilight, holding back a rain of tears.

Michael placed his hands on her face, and tilted her head to the side. The hole just above her left ear was an explosion of caked blood and dried pieces of flesh darkened by black soot. The pool her head was lying on was still crimson, less than a day old, but already becoming nothing more than a darker shade of the wooden floor.

It took Michael some time to take the revolver away from her. Mostly, he did not know whether it was right, or just. He broke her index fingers to remove it, and could not help but notice her uneven and jagged nails, tips dirty with splinter and dust. He checked the revolver. Its job done, nothing but a shell. Empty.

A knapsack sat at a corner of the room. Too large for its contents: a water tumbler, barely-used map, packs of cream crackers, a pen and notebook. Her memoir was neatly-written, the final words on the last page fading as the ink ran out. They were all hieroglyphics to him.

Before, he had never had anything larger than a raccoon enter his home. Michael built his cabin a long time ago, on an uneven terrain deep in alpine woods. He had stockpiled it with ammo and dried food made to last. He hunted his own game, chewed on herbs, made jams from berries and flowers, and drank from waterfalls and streams.

Michael rubbed his fingers across the synthetic threads of her tracksuit, and touched her hands and neck and face. The exposed flesh of her skin was hard as stone and cold to touch. The sun was setting and darkness fell, so he threw some logs to the fireplace.

He covered her up to her neck with one of his blankets, wrapped himself with another, and sat down by the girl. The flickering light cast his shadows in uneven places, but hers was still and prone.

The girl was pale, hairless, fragile as a shattering porcelain doll. He watched her, calm open eyes staring at the ceiling.

�Hello,� Michael said.

He coughed in surprise at his own voice, a croak, rasp rocky from disuse.

The girl did not respond.

After some time, he managed again, a voice barely a dull warble, cutting and crude.

�I am Michael.�

The night was quiet, save for the faint chirps of cicadas and the rustling of leaves.

�Hello, Michael,� Michael listened to the girl. �You have a nice home.�

�Thank you,� said Michael. �I try.�

�I am sorry I came in,� Michael heard.

�I never lock.�

�You should.�

�Nobody visits.�

�I did.� Michael heard. Impassive and still, he listened to the voice, like a breezeless afternoon at the peaks, hints of a light shower in the distant.

�I am glad you took it away from me,� he heard it continue. �It was an ugly thing.�

�Thank you. For being glad.�

�Don�t mention it.�

A fly landed on her lips and rubbed its feelers. He swatted it away, taking care not to touch her.

�Why did you come here?� he asked.

No answer. �Have you been here long?� he heard a question instead.

�Long enough,� he said.

�Why did you come here?�

He hesitated.

�You don�t have a reason?�

Another fly landed on her right eye. Michael stood up, away from the girl. He went to the window and leaned against the cabin wall. The moon was red, a bright harvest moon the glow of earth and rust. Small, young creatures wandered in the dark outside, disturbing the foliage.

�I forgot,� Michael told the girl lying on the floor of his home.

�That�s okay,� he heard.

A wolf howled. He wished he knew how it felt.

�I�m going now,� Michael heard. �Thank you.�

�For?� Michael asked.

�For staying with me.�

Michael knelt down beside the girl. The flies scattered away from her and flew above him, their frustrated buzzes powerless and futile. With his right hand he gently tilted her face back to where it was before, so the wound was no longer visible.

�Thank you too,� he said to her. �For staying with me.�

He closed her eyes.

The girl went away, leaving in her wake the broken thing in his house.

He took the corpse the next morning to where the pine trees and the whitest flowers were. Under the gaze of curious sparrows and squirrels, he lay it down in the hole he dug, the knapsack by its side and the notebook on the chest.

He left the grave unmarked, and walked over to the edge of the hill.

Before him was a vista of the mountains, the falling leaves golden as the warmest sun. He let the first snowflake fall on his whiskers, and dropped the revolver.

The ravine was thick with mist, and Michael watched the gun fall, fall into the whiteness of nothing below him. For one moment he heard a distant knock where the revolver hit a rock.

And when the gun was no longer a thing, Michael walked back into his own life, leaving the flowers and the trees to grow where her corpse lay.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 15:54

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

And then change the title of the self-pub erotica thread to Erotica Writing: JUST WRITE loving

I thought mods killed that thread???

# ¿ Oct 9, 2013 14:21

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systran posted:

I've been following this whole argument and don't even know what the argument is.

I don't even know what or who is getting offended by what or why anymore, I thought we were just trying to improve our writing not get our emotions unbalanced by words on the Internet, is this real life.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2013 00:54

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I Am Legend is arguably the easiest and the shortest, so start with that. Slaughterhouse is good reading, Clockwork Orange can be incredibly difficult if this is your first reading list, especially as it uses its very own vocabulary and you may have to refer to the glossary several times. King has many deriders, but he has an easy to read style. I would suggest you also take a look at King's On Writing.

On your criteria for reading, are you primarily looking at genre fiction? Ray Bradbury and Arthur C Clarke have some good ones, so start with the short stories to see if you like them.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2013 18:17

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They are guidelines. Not rules. Regardless of the fact that my day job requires me to consider guidelines as "regulatory compliance" matters, in writing, they should not be treated as such.

It is possible to do "show, don't tell" and yet not write well. There are instances where to show too much will kill your pacing, and drag the story to a halt, when all you need to say is a simple line of "he is sick". There are appropriate places to employ "showing" and also areas where they are not necessary at all. If you need to describe a phone shop attendant whose role is just to sell a phone, you don't have to go into massive detail unless (a) he shapes the way your character perceives people; (b) he has a much bigger role to play than selling a phone; or (c) describing him sets the mood of the situation/setting.

For example, John Le Carre wrote this to describe an interrogation facility:

quote:

The gates opened electronically and beyond them lay mounds of clipped grass like mass graves grown over. Olive downs stretched towards the sunset. A mushroom-shaped cloud would have looked entirely natural.

If you just go with "tell, don't show", here's how he would have written it:

quote:

The interrogation facility is very bleak. It is pretty depressing by the way.

It's ok to like the "tell" version, but the "show" version shows a better use of the language, and it gives off a much stronger mood than "lol totes emo". That's not to say the story written in the "tell" version can't be enjoyable. It may, however, have room for improvement.

Also, if you are using the review by Kim Robinson of Marquez, written in another book, as the reason why you are going to employ "tell don't show", then you would be remiss if you do not actually open 100 Years of Solitude and figure out if that is the style you want to employ. And personally, I have read that book awhile back and I don't ever recall it being "telling not showing".

I've just flipped through a few pages this morning, and here are some "show don't tell" I see:

quote:

The world was so recent that many things lacked names, and in order to indicate them it was necessary to point.

If Telling:

quote:

They lived in the world in its early days.

Another "Show":

quote:

�rsula lost her patience. �If you have to go crazy, please go crazy all by yourself!� she shouted. �But don�t try to put your gypsy ideas into the heads of the children.�

...

�rsula on the other hand, held a bad memory of that visit, for she had entered the room just as Melqu�ades had carelessly broken a flask of bichloride of mercury.

�It�s the smell of the devil,� she said.

�Not at all,� Melqu�ades corrected her. �It has been proven that the devil has sulphuric properties and this is just a little corrosive sublimate.�

Always didactic, he went into a learned exposition of the diabolical properties of cinnabar, but �rsula paid no attention to him, although she took the children off to pray. That biting odor would stay forever in her mind linked to the memory of Melqu�ades.

If telling:

quote:

Ursula was very religious and did not believe in science.

It's absolutely fine to break the age old rule of "show don't tell". But in order to break rules, you have to understand them well enough and know the correct way to twist them to your favour, or to find that one perfect loophole to jump through. Breaking without comprehension will just lead to a mess of words being slammed on the keyboard as if you were playing The Typing of the Dead: Overkill.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jan 3, 2014

# ¿ Jan 3, 2014 03:30

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magnificent7 posted:

And why the hell am I awake at 3am can't sleep thinking about writing. That's not so bad I suppose.

You could spend the rest of the night reading Marquez :rolleyes:

# ¿ Jan 3, 2014 09:50

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magnificent7 posted:

What is Marquez and no I need to sleep.

But what is it.

It's Gabriel Garcia Marquez, the writer of 100 Years of Solitude which you just quoted in your own post about "tell don't show" and I wrote a massive post about above.

That above was a prime example of me "showing not telling" you that I think you really need to learn to read.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jan 3, 2014

# ¿ Jan 3, 2014 10:17

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Is there any online resource which sets out the different writing styles used in world folklore? E.G. How the Arabian Nights's style is obviously different from the Poetic Edda. I'm trying to find out what are the key things that separate them to be distinctive.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2014 11:14

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The Saddest Rhino posted:

Is there any online resource which sets out the different writing styles used in world folklore? E.G. How the Arabian Nights's style is obviously different from the Poetic Edda. I'm trying to find out what are the key things that separate them to be distinctive.

Hi I'm sure you foul-language connoisseurs find the usage of naughty words very fascinating but I would like some help with my genuine question quoted above, please :saddowns:

# ¿ Jan 26, 2014 05:14

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Crisco Kid posted:

How do you mean writing styles? Like in wording and structure, or theme? It will be a lot easier to find common themes and occasionally structures in regional folklore as opposed to prose style, unless you stick to really distinct formats like the sagas. Anything less obvious than saga formats or West African word repetition, etc. won't be recognizable enough to register as different to most readers.

I've seen linguistic, structural, and psychological approaches, and there's the Aarne-Thompson classification system, but it sounds like maybe "comparative mythology" as a general search might be more useful to you.

Hey, thanks very much for this and sorry for not responding earlier. I wasn't aware of the Aarne-Thompson classification and that looks really fascinating. I'll have a read!

What I was looking out mostly for is prose style - I'm not aware of the repetition structure of West African writing so I'll keep an eye on that. I'm just mostly noticing that the Arabian Nights have a very distinctive way of prose style (or it could be Richard Taylor's translation), with references to Allah being scattered liberally among others. Then there's also Kipling's Just So Stories, to take a more contemporary example.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2014 14:03

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elfdude posted:

Hey ya'll looking for advice on trying to write a story where a character hates themselves.

In what way does said person hates himself? Is it a body image issue or a self-esteem problem, or maybe a feeling of helplessness of being trapped in a situation they don't feel they are strong enough to get out of? It may be that you can look into depression symptoms but I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Also:

Mr. Belding posted:

I know most writers are hapless dipshits (which is why writing advice threads devolve into worthless whining).

Considering "most" of us are "hapless dipshits" who quite likely hate ourselves, I expect you are going to get a lot of help! :v:

# ¿ Jan 30, 2014 06:38

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blue squares posted:

Where in the hell did you come up with this nonsense? Grammar is the set of rules governing the use of clauses, phrases, words, and punctuation. There are real actual rules that exist for a reason, and elfdude's writing broke several. No hard and fast rules? Sure, when you're speaking in dialects, but typically we write in Standard Written English, unless you're going for a specific character's voice, and SWE has grammatical rules. And your advice to just write with a word processor that fixes things automatically for you? Ridiculous. Why bother learning anything when a computer will do it for you, right?

Hakuna your tatas, my son. Let anger not be the guide in composing your words, for the message shall indubitably be lost on the reader.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2014 04:03

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Revisions in bold (I'm only looking at punctuation, not much on prose/word choice since others have pointed out earlier):

Mr_Wolf posted:

He waits for his time to come, but it never does.

Waiting to be happy gets to a man in the end; he begins to see despair in other people's joy, he ~~starts to wish~~ wishes for bad things to happen to good people just so he has company.

In the end that man stops living, wasting the time he has left wishing it was better, wishing he has another chance, Another tomorrow.

Sometimes, though, tomorrow never comes.

One of the problems I had with your punctuations is dialogue tags. The correct tags should be:

John said, "I would like that. Blueberry pancakes are great."

"I would like that," John said. "Blueberry pancakes are great."

"I would like that." John played with his phone. "Blueberry pancakes are great."

"I would like that. Blueberry pancakes are great," John said.

Sometimes I see you not bothering with the commas or periods, or even putting them outside the quotation marks. It's pretty distracting so that's something you would need to be aware of.

magnificent7 posted:

If your grammar errors are getting in the way of your story for most people, that's a bad thing, unless that's your goal (like Flowers for Algernon or No Country For Old Men).

Only do this if your grasp of the grammar of the English language is strong enough that you know how to violate them.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Feb 14, 2014

# ¿ Feb 14, 2014 18:08

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Opposing Farce posted:

I feel like I'm probably going to kick up some kind of terrible grammar derail here, but my understanding is that the punctuation inside/outside quotations thing is more a matter of UK vs. US English and ultimately comes down to personal preference so long as you pick one and stick with it.

I did wonder about it, so I checked and http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/hub/A3046349 states that it's supposed to be inside the quotations in UK (ignore the bits about nested quotes, which is irrelevant but also threw me off a loop in my first read), and http://litreactor.com/columns/talk-it-out-how-to-punctuate-dialogue-in-your-prose confirms it is done that way in American English. I'm still willing to concede that I may be wrong, but I rarely ever see punctuation outside quotation marks and presume they should always be inside.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2014 18:43

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Ursine Asylum posted:

Silly question. I'm writing in this week's Thunderdome, but I don't want to poo poo up that thread with READ MY STORY PLX posts. Would someone be willing to give my story a once-over and let me know if it's complete and utter tripe before I grit my teeth and submit it?

Get on irc and show me.

Mr. Belding posted:

I think you try to keep in mind that when people say "I didn't like that," they are almost always right, and when they say, "because..." they are almost always wrong.

I think this is terrible advice. You know I'm right, so I won't bother giving a reason because by doing so, I'm immediately wrong, following your logic.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2014 14:09

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I believe both Testro and Gandhi are correct:

Neil Gaiman posted:

�Remember: when people tell you something�s wrong or doesn�t work for them, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what they think is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.�

Which is actually a good way of approaching crits. Listen to them, think through what they are saying, but ultimately have some faith in your judgment and fight for what you hate to lose.

As to considering people wrong when they start saying "because" and list their reasoning, I sincerely hope Mr. Belding didn't follow that line of talking because, good luck ever improving in your writing.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2014 17:14

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What is programmer fantasy?

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 01:26

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blue squares posted:

Definitely, different things work for different people. Yeah I could have written more, but I had studying to do, papers to write, and hastily typed, unrevised opinions to post here. Plus, books to read. Still, find time to write every day. I honestly do think that is pretty non-negotiable. Even if it's half an hour. Of course, I'm not a professional author so maybe my opinion is worthless. On the other hand, you don't get in the NFL by only practicing football on the weekends and when you're not too tired from work.

I'm a legal professional. I have to read through a 500-page report today on the standard operating procedures for a company in an industry I don't care about, because I have responsibilities to my professional well-being, my bosses, and ultimately my clients. I also need to answer to governmental requirements as the clients intend to do a share listing exercise. I am lucky, since I don't have dependents currently, or else I would be answerable to their wants and needs too. After reading that report, I would need to come up with my own summary on what they have and they are lacking, and make a potentially 50-page recommendation within the fortnight on what they should do. If they breach any law, the recommendation will be longer because I need to tell them how to minimise the damage. Sometimes I look at a book, when I'm in a train, usually an anthology of short fiction. At the quieter lunch hours, I try to write a few things but usually I have to leave it till the weekends, where I [likely] have to work extra to meet deadlines.

That's one project. I have 3 projects going on, and another minor property sale-and-purchase matter with today as the deadline.

You just study for yourself.

I'm just sayin', work is pretty different when you get to it, and it's not as easy to say "oh just write even though you work". Takes a lot more commitment than just that, and I'm lucky enough I don't have kids or relatives right now to take care of.

Write when you are studying.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Mar 19, 2014

# ¿ Mar 19, 2014 04:22

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elfdude posted:

Don't get me wrong, the tone of the writers on this forum is far from motivating, but for me I've always considered the majority of their pejorative criticisms to be little more than an attempt at sounding cool. At the end of the day, nothing they say can really damage who I am as a writer because (IMO) it's hard to respect anything but good points over the internet. You can call me anything you want, and claim that my writing is less than poo poo, but it won't faze me until you explain why that conclusion is true. Perhaps it's different because I've had real success in writing, and I've won a variety of contests and scholarships that I can ignore their criticism, but honestly the words from a child face-to-face would have more impact on my self-esteem than long-winded allusions to my worthlessness over the internet.

In summary, unless they tell you something tangible which validates what they're saying, then gently caress em. Odds are when/if they do give you something, you can down-moderate dramatically the tone surrounding it as trivial fluff and bluster.

I see, sorry I think your writing is pretty bad. I'm not interested in any of your past or current performance in real life, because they come to moot when what you show have not convinced me that you deserve whatever "prizes" you claim to have been awarded with.

I was about to crit your story for last week's TD, but do not expect any from me from now onwards.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2014 06:11

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elfdude posted:

That's an interesting conclusion to come away from what I said. I said the majority of pejorative criticisms. Pejorative being the key word their. Which is to say the insulting part of the criticisms. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of value in the insulting criticisms, but the value isn't the insults but rather the good points they make.

Which is to say the point of what I said was to delineate the personal attacks from the professional criticism and encourage others not to take the personal attacks to heart while valuing the professional criticism for what it is. If it makes you mad that I'm unfazed when someone calls me stupid then all I can do is shrug and move on, although I will point out I think you've mistaken what my meaning was there.

I think you are ungrateful for people's criticism. I see you have not bothered to apologise for offending me, whether intended or not.

So my point still stands. I would be willing to believe you are just merely bad at expressing your points (much like you are bad in doing so in your fiction), but at this juncture I'm not impressed of your constant need to express how you have won essay competitions, and that all the negative criticism will be something for you to ignore. Unless I'm convinced otherwise, I do not see the point of criticising your writing at all. Good luck in being good in everything you claim you do.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 19, 2014

# ¿ Mar 19, 2014 06:59

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quote:

I don't think there's necessarily a point to criticising or writing whatsoever other than the one defined to yourself. If you thought writing a critique was worthwhile to help improve my skill then either you're being charitable (because clearly my writing sucks), or you see nuggets that could be polished, or it benefits you somehow.

OK, the others have pointed it out but it's your absolute inability to communicate simply or concisely which is a problem. You see what you did up there? It's pretty easy for me to take away the message "you're implying I only do critiques for strangers on the Internet for some kind of ulterior motive where it benefits me somehow???"

Here's another point:

quote:

much like you are bad in doing so in your fiction) pointless insult but whatever

...

and that all the negative criticism will be something for you to ignore That's an interesting take home message which is explicitly at odds with what I said.

You're trying to apologise to me in the same post where you attack me for being "pointlessly insulting" and then condescend on me for having an "interesting take" on your words. Do you even think about what you write?

And this can be read as way more insulting than the others:

quote:

I don't know who you are and I have no way to tell if that's in your character,

Because you're telling this to the person who judged and criticised TWO of your stories in TD (one of them a line-by-line crit), who's now pissed because he interpreted your words as you being unappreciative of his efforts. And you saying this can be interpreted as "I didn't bother figuring out who you are, even though you said something as drastic as 'I don't want to bother helping you anymore with your writing.' in response to my statement."

Ultimately I know you are trying to say "I don't know you that well and cannot tell how you think and feel" but it required me to exercise some brains gymnastics and not look at it emotionally.

Also I don't know why you bothered saying you thank everyone who helped offer critiques because I sure never got any when I did them.

You managed to dig yourself a bigger hole each time you responded to me through all these kinds of stupid errors. In one of my crits I told you to stop with the purple prose bullshit and figure out how to write in simple, plain language (and I recommended Hemingway and specifically pointed out I do not care if you don't like his writing). Actually apply that seriously and maybe you'll improve your comprehension and communication.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Mar 19, 2014

# ¿ Mar 19, 2014 16:54

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
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CommissarMega posted:

How do you guys think expanding your characters' and/or setting's backgrounds should be done? Large paragraphs in the beginning of the story, gradually revealed, or a mixture of both?

The key thing is to ensure readability in your story. Infodumps are generally not necessary so it'd be better to have them gradually revealed, and only bring it up if it is absolutely crucial for the reader to understand something unfamiliar (more often that not, it would not be crucial), or if you need it to build atmosphere. It's usually less interesting than the writer thinks it is, and it just kills pacing, obstruct the story, or stop people from reading altogether.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2014 03:34

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CommissarMega posted:

_{Seriously, if anyone has any tips/examples on writing the mundane, I'd really like to hear them.}

Well, we're in Malaysia. We have a lot of things that are weird and different from the typical Anglo-Saxon white America stuff that dominates the English fiction market out there, so draw inspiration from that. Even our news headline are far from mundane.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2014 02:27

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CB_Tube_Knight posted:

I'll only do it if you make a post being a smart rear end.

But you are asked to post in a manner conducive to the objectives of this thread :confused:

if you don't want to do that why are you here.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2014 01:54

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blue squares posted:

I have a question about an upcoming problem I am foreseeing. I started something with the intentions of doing it as a short story, but after 3,000 words (of moving plot, not just dithering) I've only just now got the two brothers in the main predicament that they have to solve. I can't see myself wrapping this up satisfactorily and staying within the ~7,500 words that is the top-end of salable short fiction (to magazines, not on Kindle). In fact, the idea could easily support a full novel. Thing is, I already wrote one novel and while it was a great learning experience, it was a terrible finished product and I told myself I'd stick to short stories for a year or so before trying again. That was only a month ago.

Should I just abandon the story and leave it to later, or just follow it into novel territory even if I don't think I'm ready? I guess it's possible I could surprise myself and write something long that's decent. Or, if I just let the story do its thing and end up with something that's 20k or so, what do I even do with that?

You are bound to feel differently about every piece of work you create, so I think the questions are, (1) do you feel better about this story being turned into a full-length novel; (2) are you feeling the same vibes and apprehension as when you wrote your first novel? I'm not sure you should use your experience on finishing one single novel to gauge when you should start another one. However, if you feel that this is going to be detrimental regardless, put the story aside and write something else first and come back later. You may even find that it can work as a shorter piece.

I'm not familiar with the market, but 20k is a novella? It doesn't seem to have that huge a demand though.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2014 17:25

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
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If you don't have a good story/plot it doesn't matter how great your premise is.

Axel Serenity posted:

When do you guys typically start to send out your submissions, anyway? After the first draft? After a couple passes?

Never send your first draft unless you want to get :lol:

ed out by the agent/publisher/editor. Give it at least two to three passes first. You can do it by yourself first to spot really dumb errors you don't want people to see (stuff like "the cold clamness in his eyes") (yes I seriously wrote that recently, ugggghhh), then go through with other people WITHOUT telling them your plot/message and see what they get / do not get.

In reviewing alone, I've found printing out the draft and sitting down with a red pen to be immensely useful, because what is familiar to you onscreen becomes a new beast on paper. It's sorta like how artists when drawing portraits sometimes flip the pictures horizontally to see it from a new perspective. If it's inconvenient, changing the whole thing to a different font is also supposed to help.

E:

CB_Tube_Knight posted:

But there needs to be a clearer idea that what you're wanting to do here needs to be for the wider benefit of all and not just the kind of thing where people can bounce ideas off one another and the like.

I just read your post in full and noticed this. It reads like you are blaming the thread for performing the function it's designated for, whereas you alone remain the individual person who has confused it for something completely different. I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say here, but perhaps you should take up the advice of looking for another place online for the activity you would like to most indulge in.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Apr 3, 2014

# ¿ Apr 3, 2014 03:12

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
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# ¿ Apr 5, 2014 03:21

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PoshAlligator posted:

I'm writing something that has a character who has reasonably frequent phone calls to his office.

Balance it to be more interesting than frustrating to the reader. Imagine being at a small dinner with your friends and someone picks up the phone and speaks loudly. Which are the lines which you tune out on ("Hi Jane... yes... no.... ok, hold on... use the GPS... no press the right button... the RIGHT button...") and which are the ones that hold more interest (you make your own decision)?

# ¿ Apr 22, 2014 03:31

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magnificent7 posted:

People give me advice or critique. I choose to ignore parts of them, and cherrypick only those I like. Here is me telling all of you that I choose to do that.

This is almost every other post you make in this thread. Please expand your horizons and have more variety in your Something Awful forum thread post-writing.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Apr 24, 2014

# ¿ Apr 24, 2014 17:32

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

(though some authors make it work having someone look in the mirror and describe themself)

I'm in another writer's group, and June's theme is "mirrors".

Guess how many stories have that kind of setup :shepface:

# ¿ Jun 12, 2014 04:08

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 10:07

The Saddest Rhino: Apr 29, 2009; Put it all together.
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If Hard Luck Hank is any indication (again), mantits are important.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2014 23:24

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