Fiction Writing: Advice and Discussion

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Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Stuporstar posted:

I'd love to see a story where the theme is mirrors, and you fill the story with them, and yet you manage to have the character not look at themselves--not once.

Edit: and no vampires, because that's cheating.

The way to do this is simple: have the lead dislike himself and his appearance and then use the mirrors as an analogy for judging others harshly because all you see in them is yourself. God damnit this tale of alienation, pariah-hood and self loathing sounds like something sad I'd write for father's day.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2014 00:22

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 22:44

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

We've all heard the maxim "show don't tell". Can I get a example of too much show?

I also need some help with structuring dialog.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 00:33

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Djeser posted:

What part of dialogue are you having trouble with? Putting together a conversation, putting together individual lines, the tags (he said, etc)?

The tags and ways to potray verbal idiosyncrasies. (Stammers, distorted vocal pitches, heavy accents etc)

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 01:12

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

sebmojo posted:

Jacques Sauniere, reknowned curator, pulled his elegant and stylish coat around him against the cold and eyed the famous rock singer, who was called Mick Jagger. "Your pants are too large for you, sir," he said. The legendary rock singer smiled because he knew his pants were exactly the right size to hold the eleven inch ball of pure gold with a street value of one million dollars he had stuffed down there.

Son of a bitch http://i.somethingawful.com/images/emot-dance.gif

My issue is that I don't know to depict three guys arguing with their mentor. They keep talking over each other until the mentor loses his cool and breaks into a rant.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 01:24

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

sebmojo posted:

Each of the three is having a different conversation, in his head, than the others. They keep correcting each other on what they're actually talking about.

Also: people never talk to each other. They talk around, through, over, against each other.

So how would I portray that? I basically gave up and made each of them take their turns and collectively guffaw at the mentor's outrageous indifference.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 01:42

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

gently caress, you people are way better than me.

Another Question: What's the proper sound effect for getting kicked in the dick? [italics] He crumpled with a squeel[/italics] just isn't doing it for me.

quote:

Lamenting his crushed manhood, Byron contorted in a puddle of his own hemorrhaging piss.

this joke passage is much worse.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 01:55

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

sebmojo posted:

sithsaver, fyi, italics is [ i ] and [ / i ] (without the spaces, or you can highlight the text and go ctrl i) and you do emoticons by going : (emoticon name) :.

Stop being smarter than me!

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 03:02

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

What are your opinions on editors? Can you dump entire chapters on them or is that ghost writing?

# ¿ Jun 28, 2014 05:31

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

I'm asking about submitted chapters that are deemed unworkable.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2014 06:49

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

You don't submit chapters, you submit entire works. If multiple chapters are "unworkable" you are unlikely to find an agent or a publisher (who editors work for) to take on the project.

If you are talking about contract editors who you pay to edit stuff, they will give you feedback on chapters no matter how hosed up, and might make some suggestions, but they will not rewrite chapters for you.

Hope this helps.

It did. I obviously know nothing.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2014 07:01

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

crabrock posted:

EXT. BUSY STREETS - Night

An Aston Martin races down the street, followed closely by a Land Rover. BRAD sticks his head out of the window and goes bug eyed as he looks back. He sticks his head back in to talk to the driver, who is surprisingly a female, WANDA.

BRAD
Oh man, the terrorists are going to catch us!

WANDA
Nobody can catch me!

Brad (pointing)
There, some stairs!

WANDA
Imma go down them!

Isn't that writing structure only suited to screenwriting?

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 00:09

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

qntm posted:

Snow Crash also has one chapter end with the protagonist running out of a town with a bunch of angry people pursuing him, collects his motorbike, and the final line is "...and the rest of it is just a chase scene." Which is quite a neat way of doing it.

1. How do you handle all the changes in dynamic that may occur if you switch a character's gender?

2. What are the signs that tell you when to quit a story?

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 08:07

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Djeser posted:

1. Rewrite all those parts that would be different
2. When you're bored of writing it, because if you're bored with something you yourself made, everyone else is going to be super mega x2 bored with it because they didn't make it.

2. So you shouldn't power through malaise and writer's block?

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 08:16

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Comma placement question:

quote:

...blah blah passed by downtown Atlanta enough to recognize the City, and wherever he was going, downtown Atlanta wasn't it.

1. Is this wrong?

2. Should I have written "but wherever he was..." instead of "and wherever"?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 05:51

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:

it looks like the second part is an interjection but the third part isnt a direct continuation of the first part. which is why i think you wrote it like that in the first place.

So...what should I do exactly?

I held off on the semicolon because I'd already used one in the same paragraph.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 07:09

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

God Over Djinn posted:

Make it two sentences. But if you don't have any intuitions about how that sentence sounds, I'd hazard a guess that your writing has other problems you'd do better to spend your time worrying about.

Why do you think I'm asking the question?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 08:08

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

The Saddest Rhino posted:

Are you being sarcastic to people giving you advice because lol

Obviously I have a lot to learn.

Here's the old sentence in full:

"Nevertheless, Stephen had passed through the area enough times to recognize the City, and wherever he was headed, Downtown Atlanta wasn't it."

I changed the aforementioned mentioned comma into a semicolon. For some reason this breaks the stream of consciousness and metanarrative but whatever.

Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jul 8, 2014

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 09:20

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Anomalous Blowout posted:

This would 100% no foolin' abso-loving-lutely flow better if you just turned it into two sentences. Read it out loud, then read it out loud with a period after "city."

Never write anything after 4 in the morning.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 14:59

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

LOU BEGAS MUSTACHE posted:

no, thats the best time to write, just edit when you're wide awake.

Really?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 15:50

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Now I'm confused.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 16:36

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

blue squares posted:

I know I haven't been doing anything to contribute to good discussion, but this thread got a whole lot worse when Sithsaber found it.

Someone report this. I always get probated when I tell off the whiners who follow me around.

This is a advice thread, genius.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 17:06

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

God Over Djinn posted:

Sorry for being snippy earlier, but what I was hoping to stave off was exactly this. My whole point was: it's not a question that's worth getting confused over. You have a number of good writers telling you that various solutions are all fine, which should suggest that it's largely a matter of context and personal preference. But if you're still at a point where you don't have an 'ear' to choose between multiple technically correct options, then you definitely don't need to be spending this much time and energy on a single relatively uninteresting sentence. You're wasting your own time. Just write.

Maybe I'm missing something, because I've never read anything you've written, but your questions in here are very basic, the kind of stuff that you could easily intuit from reading or learn by Googling. The fact that you're asking them makes me guess that your writing has other issues that dwarf 'do I put a comma here?'. That's why (at least) my instinct is to be a bit irritated when I see you asking these things - you're clearly missing the forest for the trees. But I invite you to prove me wrong by posting your writing (or pointing me to where you have).

1. I use this thread as a launching point.

2. I nitpick

3. I've been a bit eclectic lately. Right now I'm trying to get over the sloppiness that comes with texting everything, but I'll link a couple things tonight.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 17:16

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Sitting Here posted:

what's a metanarrative

It's not what I thought it was. What I meant was a story that referenced itself and what was being thought about when I got the idea for the story.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 19:37

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Oxxidation posted:

And nothing makes this "advice thread" unhappy like some pompous rear end-jack asking increasingly picayune questions in a transparent attempt to make other people an accessory to procrastination. Punctuation advice? Really? Really.

It especially doesn't help that you've got no actual samples up so no one can be sure if you're just blowing smoke up their asses. Personally I have only read your essays on Bioshock and would give them a C- at best. Dull stuff, dull stuff.

1. I had to hold off on the library today. Some of us have jobs.

2. Why wouldn't I ask questions about punctuation? Your whining is stupid.

3. Fandom is basically a different medium.

4. Tomorrow you whiner. I don't have WiFi.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 02:15

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Keromaru5 posted:

If you're having that much trouble with punctuation, don't come to a bunch of people on a message board. Read The Elements of Style. Once you've gotten the hang of its rules, then you can figure out when and where they're necessary. Ultimately, it's a matter of personal judgment, but judgment built on a solid foundation.

Not as different as you might think. Casual conversations like this? Sure, that's one thing. But advice for fiction writing can also apply to nonfiction, like articles and reviews. Don't forget, many of history's best novelists were also essayists and critics.

That loser was referencing something I texted last month. TEXTED. I even had a disclaimer complaining about how I lost most of it when messing with gmail drafts. The only thing that I've seriously posted here that ended up horrible was Harmonshock, and that was a parody I lost interest in on day one and only completed because I needed to practice following through. (In my head it was a screenplay I never got around to editing)

Ps. And tell that other guy that we can both gently caress off. I'm not going to apologize for getting people's take on a sentence I was hung up on.

Pps. Thanks for reminding me about that book. I should probably read it before I order Zarathustra.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 02:41

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

I was thinking that tiny doses of run on sentences instead of periods and semicolons quickly express my roaming train of thought.

Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jul 9, 2014

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 05:56

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Chillmatic posted:

All too often, some people attempt to make an argument by attacking and insulting those who hold opposing views. Mr. Sithsaber's remonstrations are a perfect example. Before I launch into my main topic, I want to make a few matters crystal-clear: (1) Sithsaber brandishes the word �crystallographically� as a kind of up-to-date jack-o'-lantern to scare children, and (2) as a result of that, the world would be a much better place to live if Sithsaber just stopped trying to feed us ever-larger doses of his lies and crackpot assumptions. Now that you know where I stand on those issues, I can safely say that I want to thank him for his surmises. They give me an excellent opportunity to illustrate just how feral Sithsaber can be. Life isn't fair. We've all known this since the beginning of time, so why is he so compelled to complain about situations over which he has no control? The complete answer to that question is a long, sad story. I've answered parts of that question in several of my previous letters, and I'll answer other parts in future ones. For now, I'll just say that it's easy enough to hate him any day of the week on general principles. But now I'll tell you about some very specific things that he is up to, things that ought to make a real Sithsaber-hater out of you. First off, he has a well-exercised contempt for other cultures. The mere mention of that fact guarantees that this letter will never get published in any mass-circulation periodical over which Sithsaber has any control. But that's inconsequential because honor means nothing to Sithsaber. Principles mean nothing to Sithsaber. All he cares about is how best to use our weaknesses to his advantage.

Whenever there's an argument about Sithsaber's devotion to principles and to freedom, all one has to do is point out that we have our work cut out for us. That should settle the argument pretty quickly. When I hear Sithsaber's blackshirts parrot the party line�that our elected officials should be available for purchase by special-interest groups�I see them not as people but as machines. The appropriate noises are coming out of their larynges, but their brains are not involved as they would be if they were thinking about how Sithsaber surely wants me to develop an eating disorder. If I did, I'm sure the chortles from Sithsaber and his band would be rich and prolonged, especially given how Sithsaber adamantly maintains that Man's eternal search for Truth is a challenge to be avoided at all costs. Such beliefs would be entirely factual if it weren't for reality. As it stands, Sithsaber's notions are destructive. They're morally destructive, socially destructive�even intellectually destructive. And, as if that weren't enough, Sithsaber makes a living out of Maoism. I call this tactic of his �entrepreneurial Maoism�. Sithsaber and his toadies have indubitably raised entrepreneurial Maoism to a fine art by using it to establish a world government complete with a world army, a world parliament, a world court, and numerous other agencies that subvert time-tested societal norms.

We must stop tiptoeing and begin marching boldly and forthrightly towards our goal, which is to lead us all toward a better, brighter future. Double standards are always domineering. Nevertheless, I can state with absolute certainty that I call upon Sithsaber to stop his oppression, lies, immorality, and debauchery. I call upon him to be a man of manners, principles, honour, and purity. And finally, I call upon him to forgo his desire to let advanced weaponry fall into the hands of the worst sorts of loud snobs there are. If anything, he is squarely in favor of antagonism and its propensity to let antisocial lowbrows serve as our overlords. This is so typical of Sithsaber: he condemns bigotry and injustice except when it benefits him personally. While he has been beating the drums of communism, I've been trying to take stock of what we know, identify areas for further research, and provide a useful starting point for debate on his unforgiving projects. In doing so, I've learned that Sithsaber says that he would sooner give up money, fame, power, and happiness than perform a horny act. Although Sithsaber indeed cut that statement out of whole cloth, it's easy for us to shake our heads at his foolishness and cowardice. It's easy for us to exclaim that we should bring important information about his hectoring writings into the limelight. It's easy for us to say, �From the very beginning, rotten, cruel mob bosses have labored to recruit into their ranks the sons and daughters of the powerful, famous, and rich.� The point is that it's easy for us to say these things because there is something grievously wrong with those wily publicity hounds who demand special treatment that, in many cases, borders on the ridiculous. Shame on the lot of them!

Sithsaber has been trying for some time to convince people that he has been robbed of all he does not possess. Don't believe his hype! Sithsaber has just been offering that line as a means to oppose the visceral views of 98 percent of the nation's citizens. I hereby publicly condemn his Pecksniffian, tartarean activities. In doing so, I publicly proclaim that it's undoubtedly astounding that Sithsaber has somehow found a way to work the words �interparenthetically� and �archaeopterygiformes� into his policies. However, you may find it even more astounding that he claims that the Scriptures are responsible for his infernal thoughts and fancies. This eisegetical fantasy is not only foolish, but it fails to consider that I hate it when people get their facts utterly wrong. For instance, whenever I hear some corporate fat cat make noises about how the cure for evil is more evil, I can't help but think that in my observations upon sciolism, I have expressed no opinion thus far of the mode of its extinguishment or melioration. I will note, however, though I still have nothing to propose, that I must admit that I've read only a small fraction of Sithsaber's writings. (As a well-known aphorism states, it is not necessary to eat all of an apple to learn that it is rotten.) Nevertheless, I've read enough of Sithsaber's writings to know that my goal is to get Sithsaber to realize that his warnings are as appealing as braces, acne, and a wooden leg at the senior prom. Of course, if he insists on remaining an ignorant, uninformed, and ill-informed spiv, that's his prerogative.

Don't kid yourself: I'm sure Sithsaber wouldn't want me to eavesdrop on his secret conversations. So why does he want to shock and stampede the public into accepting total fascist tyranny? He doesn't want you to know the answer to that question; he wants to ensure you don't reach the broadest possible audience with the message that this is an exceptionally convincing illustration of the power wielded by Sithsaber and of the destructive way in which he uses that power. Is it any wonder that juxtaposed to this is the idea that he is bound to have a rude awakening when he finally realizes how few people approve of his militant, ribald bromides? He has already begun lowering scholastic standards. I wish I were joking, but I'm not. What's more, finding the best way to test the assumptions that underlie Sithsaber's philippics is a challenging problem indeed. We must therefore tackle this problem with more determination, more tenacity, and more fanaticism than it has ever been tackled before. Only then will people realize that there appears to be some disagreement in the community regarding the number of times that Sithsaber has been seen emptying the meaning of such concepts as �self,� �justice,� �freedom,� and other profundities. Some say once; some say five times; some say a dozen times or more. The point is not to quibble over numbers or anything like that but rather to clarify that Sithsaber's bilious plans for the future are anchored in the divisiveness of the past. Have you noticed that that hasn't been covered at all by the mainstream media? Maybe they're afraid that Sithsaber will retaliate by tricking our children into adopting unconventional, disapproved-of opinions and ways of life.

Impolitic scofflaws have increasingly been practicing human sacrifice on a grand scale in some sort of sappy death cult. Sithsaber has a lot to answer for in regard to that. His �I'm right and you're wrong� attitude is querulous because it leaves no room for compromise. To give the devil his due, I'm impressed with how efficiently Sithsaber manages to sully a profession that's already held in low esteem, especially given that the implications of this are obvious. To spell it out, though, if today we don't issue a call to conscience and reason, then tomorrow we'll have to put up with him changing children's values from those taught in the home to those considered chic by garrulous dopeheads. Let me go on record as saying that he has nothing but contempt for you, and you don't even know it. That's why I feel obligated to inform you that he has no fixed ethical principles. I put that observation into this letter just to let you see that to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of invidious, narrow-minded phlyarologists it has to be repeated at least fifty times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following fifty times, but in his quest to persecute the innocent and let the guilty go unpunished he has left no destructive scheme unutilized.

I'm not a psychiatrist. Sometimes, though, I wish I were, so that I could better understand what makes people like Sithsaber want to take over society's eyes, ears, mind, and spirit. Given the doolally political rhetoric of our times, he is out to foster suspicion�if not hatred�of �outsiders�. And when we play his game, we become accomplices.

Sithsaber's servitors have been staggering around like punch-drunk fighters hit too many times�stunned, confused, betrayed, and trying desperately to rationalize Sithsaber's heartless, unmannerly cajoleries. It is not a pretty sight. I once told Sithsaber that he bases his announcements on the belief that one hallmark of an advanced culture is the rejection of rationalism. How did he respond to that? He proceeded to curse me off using a number of colorful expletives not befitting this letter, which serves only to show that we need to hinder the power of feckless backstabbers like Sithsaber. Why? Because of what's at stake: literally everything.

Sithsaber has indicated that if we don't let him dress up his profit motive in the cloak of selfless altruism then he'll be forced to silence any criticism of the brainwashing and double standards that he has increasingly been practicing. That's like putting rabid attack dogs in silk suits. In other words, Sithsaber has issued us a thinly veiled threat that's intended primarily to scare us away from the realization that many of us are too na�ve and trusting. It takes a lot of convincing to get us to see a person as inherently appalling or inherently squalid. Alas, Sithsaber is doing all he can to provide us with unmistakable proof that he is inherently both. For instance, Sithsaber is addicted to the feeling of power, to the idea of controlling people. Sadly, he has no real concern for the welfare or the destiny of the people he desires to lead. Given that this was true long before the latest scandal broke, he is presumptively eager to promote mediocrity over merit.

Socrates was condemned to death by the city of Athens for his views. I hope I don't receive the same treatment for saying that some oppressive, headstrong demagogues are actually considering helping Sithsaber distract attention from more important issues. How quickly such people forget that they were lied to, made fun of, and ridiculed by Sithsaber on numerous occasions. Knowledge is the key that unlocks the shackles of bondage. That's why it's important for you to know that I don't see how Sithsaber can build a workable policy around wishful thinking draped over a morass of confusion (and also, as we'll see below, historical illiteracy), then impose it willy-nilly on a population by force. I'm not saying that it can't possibly be done but rather that Sithsaber should think about how his outbursts lead noxious, insufferable curmudgeons to change the course of history. If Sithsaber doesn't want to think that hard, perhaps he should just keep quiet. All right, I think I've said enough about how you'll never hear Mr. Sithsaber admit he made a mistake. I'd be curious to see if Sithsaber has a persuasive rebuttal.

(Fart)

There's my rebuttal.

If I can't get around to posting some poo poo in the next 24 hours, feel free to ignore me.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 13:56

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

DivisionPost posted:

Why wait 24 hours when I can start now?

I'm using a PHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNE.

PS. I also messed myself up be reading "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts".

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 14:48

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

crabrock posted:

i only feel good when i write something people like, not when i pat myself on the back for putting words on the page. i guess people have different approaches to self-esteem.

Panderfapfap pander fap. If Oxxi is still crying he should use the search feature while I'm away. I'm sure I have some overblown cartoon analysis he can enjoy.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 16:07

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

quote:

I'm just going to assume you're trolling at this point, as you've produced no writing and have just started insulting people for no reason. I wasn't even talking to you, idiot. I wrote 100,000 words last year, and not all of them make me proud of myself.

I'll paste something to tide you over while I edit and go to work. Here's a loose prologue to an old "Tale From Ominy" I'm currently fixing. I hope I can get to the library to post the rest of it.

quote:

The brown and bloodied hut shelters a ragged woman within. She heaves in the confined space, unable to choke down the final vestiges of sorrow and humanity. The floor is ruined oak and the walls are crushed adobe fashioned from the rotting remains of the world. She cries, cooking her latest stillborn child in a pot made from the hollowed skull of her final mate. The hut begins to sink as acrid fumes envelop her; vision blurs as the primordial dolmen reasserts itself over the final witch.

Ereshkigal's sobs pervert themselves into cackles as the psychoactive haze takes effect. The crypt becomes a fortress as her chains morph into fine embroidery. She delights in the illusionary madness of the claustrophobic crypt; One last laugh leaves her lips as damnation takes hold.

I'll post the various short stories in their appropriate threads and than link them here. Endriver is almost 3000 words so it'll need it's own thread.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 17:58

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Echo Cian posted:

Same for me pretty much; hell, I've had someone offer to buy me books if I write just a bit more of my novel, and there it still sits (I bought the books myself). I automatically drift to any excuse not to write - irc, MMOs, even Solitaire as long as it's not writing, which annoys me to no end. I've even tried removing all my shortcuts and it doesn't work.

But Monday my computer died, leaving me with only a notebook and my phone which is a pain to use for more than a few minutes at a time, and I'm most of the way through a story outline that I probably never would have bothered to write if I was sitting at a computer.

This isn't actually much help, except to say that maybe the keyboard is the problem when you can think of other things you'd rather be doing that are just a click away, but it's definitely a common sentiment.

(Of course now I want to actually write the story and can't easily since I have to go to the library to type and writing by hand is slow and hurts after a while. But when I fix the computer it'll be back to distractions and nonproductivity. Can't win.)

This isn't as atrocious as your attitude led me to anticipate, has some good details; but it's overwritten, showing off your vocabulary rather than bothering to tell a story, and I'm left going "Yeah, and?" Some do write for imagery and atmosphere, but most people are interested in a story, and a snippet like this doesn't give room to care about a scene description. "The woman" isn't even a named protagonist, unless she's Ereshkigal, but I'm not even sure of that; it's too unclear.

quote:

The brown and bloodied hut shelters a ragged woman within. She heaves in the confined space, unable to choke down the final vestiges of sorrow and humanity. The floor is ruined oak and the walls are crushed adobe fashioned from the rotting remains of the world. She cries, cooking her latest stillborn� in a pot made from the hollowed out skull of her final mate. As the hut begins to sink the stew's� acrid fumes envelop her; vision blurs as the primordial dolmen reasserts itself over the final witch.

Her sobs pervert themselves into cackles as the psychoactive haze takes effect. The sunken hut transforms as� the woman's rags morph into fine embroidery. She delights in the illusionary madness of the claustrophobic crypt; One last cackle leaves her lips as damnation takes hold.

I edited abit but left illusion because the witch is actively shaping the hallucination. This ministory is supposed to be a worldbuilding tie in to another work which I'll link in a second. I was going to carve icons of her story into the walls Skye in style before I gave up and decided the frescoes would be destroyed by weathering. My next question was going to be how to organically introduce a person's name after mostly going with their Title without settling for exposition dialogue.

Seeing how the thread has turned on me for supposedly being a interloper, I decided to edit and post some old poo poo while I finish up on "The Hindsight". I put the shorts in the snippets thread: forgive the phone hosed formatting.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3527097&pagenumber=15#lastpost

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3649617&pagenumber=1#lastpost

Ps. God damned spellcheck might have hosed a lot of this up.

Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 10, 2014

# ¿ Jul 10, 2014 20:10

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Sitting Here posted:

Thunderdome? Literary? "Top-level contributors"? CC people's "Overwhelming feedback" is what's keeping your from writing right now?

Mag7, I actually like the cut of your jib most of the time, but if the above things are impeding your ability or motivation to write, you need to take a step back from this thread.

I don't think anyone gets mad when someone doesn't take their advice. I think people get mad when someone posts a question and then spends more time contradicting people who're trying to help them than they do writing. And at the end of the day, "talking shop" is not nearly as helpful as actual crits, so this thread can feel a little bit like spinning wheels in the mud.

Regarding getting motivated to write: I guess I'm one of the rare people who is totally inspired by someone sitting on my shoulder critting my every word as I put it on the paper. As systran mentioned, a bunch of us were in a pretty serious writing group for a while, and I hit levels of productivity that I'd never managed before then and haven't managed since.

I miss u WADers

I think this thread would work a lot better if we accepted that sometimes it's just a place for people to come vent about their writing, and if people didn't take everything so personally. Just my 2 cents well cya.

I get what you're saying but one of of the guys in the sister thread did tell me not to question his critiques before he moved on to the next one.This is odd because some of us want a bit of give or take we can think about instead of simple editing.

Ps. He didn't edit anything. I think he meant that I shouldn't get touchy about advised corrections/ "excuses".

How would you guys handle train of thought? How does it fare when the writer is playing with omission?

Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 11, 2014

# ¿ Jul 10, 2014 23:50

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Do we have to add an extra step before introducing minority protagonists? I've heard that the reader tends to project themselves into and identify with traditional conventions like white leads, and that not going with an ethnic name or behavior right off the bat can lead the reader to be jarred by what to them is a out of nowhere ethnicity reveal/ identification of the character they invested in with "the other" outliers.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 05:16

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

General Battuta posted:

Okay, so what you are kind of awkwardly fumbling around here is a problem called 'the unmarked state'. Readers will often assume that if you don't specify a character's race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever, it is the default (whatever their default may be). This is a pretty basic trait of human cognition. You can get around this issue without being a shithead by finding appropriate, understated, contextually appropriate ways to mark these states for your characters. You should try to be even-handed about this. Don't leave your white characters unmarked and point out other races, for instance; that's just driving home the racial default.

If you think that 'an ethnic name or behavior' is something you should...I don't even know what you mean by that, or how to explain why it's a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea. Are you asking whether all your characters need to confirm to crude ethnic stereotypes so readers won't be surprised to learn they aren't white? No. Jesus, treat your characters as people, do good research on other cultures and religions, allow your characters to act like real people from real places, be respectful and sensitive and don't use other peoples' heritage as a cheap 'exotic' thrill in your work. Like Nika said, read decent books, examine how they do it. Make sure they're actually decent, though, since a lot of authors really gently caress this stuff up.

A good story should provide a lot of respectful, effective ways to explain who a character is and where they come from without staring in a mirror or infodumping a biography.

Please don't call things 'ethnic', gently caress.

As a dark skinned hispanic, I reserve the right to feel ostracized by society at large. I just don't know how to organically buildup racial tension without mocking Dixie or throwing in gratuitous spanish.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 06:08

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

General Battuta posted:

I totally respect your right to feel ostracized, but I'm not sure I understand how that connects to the question you're asking. You shouldn't feel like you have to pigeonhole your characters to please readers. Have you read Junot Diaz? I think he's very good at handling stuff like this in his writing. He illustrates a lot of the attitudes his characters negotiate (and hold) without coming right out and explaining things.

I'm trying to figure out how to show my character's race without turning them into a caricature or something dishonest to my story.

Ps. I would go into detail if the story in question wasn't a part of my thunderdome brawl.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 06:18

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

General Battuta posted:

If your character's name doesn't convey the information up front, you can always just say it. Sometimes dancing around and trying to do it indirectly is pretty awkward. I know that must sound really disjointed from my advice above - I wish I had an example of someone doing it really well to show you.

I've decided to emulate Brian d' Amato and just talk poo poo about the confederate battle flag.

Ps. By right of blood and skin palette I reserve the right to use the phrase "ethnic name". By my inpronunciable title, I claim "ethnic in perpetuity

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 06:44

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

SoundMonkey posted:

Dude I appreciate that you want help with writing but I beg of you, please try to express yourself in a non-insane way so that people can help you better.

My joke actually summed up the problem behind my question. When I used the word ethnic without revealing my ethnicity, General Battuta reacted a bit negatively. If I had said I was hispanic from the outset, he might have not taken offense. This relates to my question because I don't want to illicit this exact same reaction when I forget to include basic information like common social tensions or a otherwise completely integrated character who out of nowhere complains about country music or rice and beans.

My crazy joke was just me poking fun at how quickly that guy withdrew his critique once I revealed my skin color.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 04:40

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

General Battuta posted:

My critique's not withdrawn. I'm not going to lecture you on how to experience race, but people of all backgrounds end up writing badly about the topic.

I just meant the use of the phrase "ethnic name" mainly because you were right to assume that my name is ethic.(and that's okay)

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 04:45

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

Should I care more about freytag's pyramid/dramatic arc or Campbell's monomyth/ story circle?

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 06:10

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 22:44

Sithsaber: Apr 8, 2014; by Ion Helmet

systran posted:

I'm mostly plugging the lectures from YouTube, which are basically just like a free class taught by a guy who made a lot of money selling his genre books through traditional publishing. Sanderson taught the class at that weird Mormon university, and the website just has all the lectures from the class on Youtube. You could just go to the Youtube page and ignore the website entirely.

We based the writing group that you are in off of the interactive part of that class, so we basically were pretending we took the class by watching the videos and then writing based on the requirements for students in the class.

A lot of the advice he gives in the lectures is genre specific, but there are also classes talking about benefits of traditional vs. digital publishing, editing, etc. It was pretty helpful to me, though I haven't read a lot of "writing advice" books. Sanderson is very goony and some of the lectures are dumb, but I'd give one or two a try and see if you think they are worth watching.

Hook me up with some links.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2014 00:32

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