Fiction Writing: Advice and Discussion

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Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Phil Moscowitz posted:

The worst is in-world quotes.

And the greatest among ye, rise from the smool and wield the power axe against your enemies, for if your strength is naught surely no manmonkey can withstand them.

-- Verse from a sermon given by the High Lord Executioner P'Fluthmoz to the Bhagavad Hot Carl before the great Ceremony of Noogies

I dunno, I think in-world quotes are only time I can stand epigraphs. Say you're following around a religious character and the start of every chapter in which they take action in has a relevant quote from their bible; to me, that adds to the immersion. Unless their bible is like, "~~Jesus~~Frank answered, �I am the way ~~and the truth~~ and the life. No one comes to ~~the Father~~Mikey except through me. Also, I'm the truth, yo," because it's just going to sour me on the work entirely and make me put down the book.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2013 19:17

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 15:17

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Roquentin posted:

Am I the only one who p much needs the tactile fun of handwriting in order to jog my interest in whatever I'm working on? It's gotten to the point where I often do this for assigned papers too, not just the thing I'm writing. It's like the worst variation on blank white screen writer's block. Even once I have a number of pages in a word doc I still don't feel like writing if it means punching glyphs onto a screen; I need a pen and a notebook. I'm worried that it's gonna eventually fuel my laziness to the point where there's no workaround and I stop doing creative writing.

I keep a huge stack of index cards and a fine tip sharpie with me essentially everywhere for that, but I just get so frustrated trying to write anything longer than a hundred or so words out by hand. Index cards are so much more physically pleasing than big fuckin' notebooks or endless reams of note paper.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2013 03:55

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

crabrock posted:

I like books with different chapter lengths. I think it's fun to have a very short chapter. To me it's like "this is very important, but not that long, so it gets its own chapter instead of being tacked onto the end of something else."

Seriously, there's no hard set rule to chapters beyond "each one kind of should have its own weight." Like, you can really effectively have a one sentence chapter, and have it be really insanely well written, so long as it has fairly similar narrative weight to all the other chapters.

Kind of a cheating example, but the firefight near the end of Marathon Man is a loving intensely beautiful example of a one sentence chapter.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2013 06:20

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

I go middle ground; my Google Drive is my default Scrivener save location. I just wish there was a version of Scrivener I could use on a Chromebook easily.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2013 01:41

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

David Gemmell is the be-all end-all of fantasy fight scenes. Go read Legend, it'll teach you everything you need to know

# ¿ Feb 23, 2014 00:19

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

3Romeo posted:

This is a legitimate question, and I don't mean for it to come off snarky: Can you recommend any newer fantasy that dodges most of those traits and has thematic and emotional depth? Because I'd really like to read it and maybe change my viewpoint.

The Lies of Locke Lamora, by Scott Lynch, is the first thing to come to mind; it's a far more personal story about a group of thieves taking part in a big heist, only to experience ridiculous amounts of hubris for, y'know, being thieves. It has a lot of parallels to Oliver Twist while still doing its own thing. It's pretty fuckin' dope. The sequels get more fantasy tropes but sequels are always a huge problem in fantasy because nobody seems to want to write a standalone genre book.

Alif the Unseen, by G. Willow Wilson, is also pretty fuckin' cool. It's about a modern day hacker from the poor quarter in Dubai suddenly getting tangled up with jinn and the police state at the same time.

There's also The Iron Dragon's Daughter, by Michael Swanwick. It deliberately says "gently caress you" to fantasy tropes and he set out to write the most unfantasy thing he could; as such, it's a coming of age story about a young girl who makes a bunch of mistakes and goes to college and meanders through three or four stories of varying weirdness. It's great.

I am kind of burned the gently caress out on fantasy though because of the same poo poo you posted; I'd kill to hear some more recommendations. These were the only three books that jumped to mind that I'd actually feel comfortable recommending to anybody to read; there's authors like Mieville who I enjoy but I never recommend because the language is just too annoying.

Wungus fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 25, 2014

# ¿ Feb 25, 2014 18:32

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

The Saddest Rhino posted:

What is programmer fantasy?

The Wizardry Consulted, by Rick Cook. A programmer is sucked into a fantasy world of elves and poo poo and learns that he can use programming skills to program magic in subroutines and stuff, and becomes the world's most best wizard because he is able to make magic programs instead of brute forcing fireballs.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 03:34

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

I start by opening q10 with absolutely nothing in mind and the first time I sit and think "what now" I begin planning out where, if anywhere, the fart-filled wordery I just made will go. This step usually involves transferring the text into Word or something. Then, it's like a few people have said; I come up with guide posts of stuff I'd like to write and work out how to string it together. It works better than anything else I've tried, but that don't mean it works good.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2014 02:21

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

But rules are in service of the story. Even if they're unspoken in the story itself, I'm sure that the author has some kind of of idea what their protagonists and antagonists can do in the world. Rules that people have to follow shape them, and make them work with the tools they have. I think that can lead to better results than writing "suddenly, Bob could fly" out of nowhere on page 215, when up until now, Bob has been a perfectly ordinary plumber.

Counterpoint: gently caress rules and just write an interesting story. Use your drafts and revisions to work out some rules that make sense of the cool poo poo you did, and place hints and winks that make the sudden flying seem like it was planned all along.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2014 17:13

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

See, that's what I mean by use editing to back up the rules. If the story becomes better through your detective suddenly flying, throw that poo poo in, that's dope as hell. Just, you know, use your edits to plant the seeds of flight. Build your rules and laws in retrospect.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2014 18:42

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

CB_Tube_Knight posted:

Does anyone have a favorite portrayal of Lucifer. Medium doesn't matter. And I have the comics in my Kindle already so I'm going to look over those.

The way Ray Wise plays him in the TV show Reaper is fantastic. He acts as mostly a father figure who genuinely wants the main character to be successful and happy, but also does some fantastic dick moves and his mannerisms are incredible.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2014 13:30

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

All trees ended an inch above Character's head. "I would hate to be that lumberjack," thought Character. "What a repetitive job."

# ¿ Mar 18, 2014 14:46

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

The forest disappeared at a height slightly above Conan's head. "Whoops," said Conan with a grin on his face. "I gotta stop playing with these shiny doomsday devices."

# ¿ Mar 18, 2014 19:54

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

CB_Tube_Knight posted:

This is a really simplistic question that I know has been asked before, but:

When do you come up with your titles?

As soon as the idea comes to my head; failing that, at the very end in a last minute panic.

CB_Tube_Knight posted:

How do you come up with them?

I try and be clever and impress people, only to realize as I submit anything "oh gently caress that title is awful." At least the title quality is usually appropriate to the story quality. If I can, I do what Seb said and make a title that has a couple of levels, but that's something I'm still working on and so far I don't really achieve it none good.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2014 14:35

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

CommissarMega posted:

How do you guys think expanding your characters' and/or setting's backgrounds should be done? Large paragraphs in the beginning of the story, gradually revealed, or a mixture of both?

Ew ew ew never do the large paragraph. If your character or setting's background is important, add it in slowly if it specifically adds to the story you're telling or just don't let it hit your final draft. Infodumps are archaic and boring and tell your readers/editors you don't give a poo poo about them.

Here's a video by Brandon Sanderson talking about infodumps, he explains how to gradually add things in if you have to. He specifically talks about genre, but there's no reason you can't apply what he says to non-genre writing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KtggfHY7qo

# ¿ Mar 24, 2014 03:27

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

CommissarMega posted:

_{Seriously, if anyone has any tips/examples on writing the mundane, I'd really like to hear them.}

Tip: Cool poo poo happens in the space outside your front door all the time. Write that.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2014 13:08

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

ZorajitZorajit posted:

I've been told that first (genre) novels should usually run ~90K words or less. Can anyone comment on this?

Here's a giant fuckin' tumblr post by a former literary agent on word count.

http://kaylapocalypse.tumblr.com/post/78727094580/all-new-revised-on-word-counts-and-novel-length

Here's the relevant novel-length bit she lists:

quote:

middle grade fiction = Anywhere from 25k to 40k, with the average at 35k

YA fiction = For mainstream YA, anywhere from about 45k to 80k; paranormal YA or YA fantasy can occasionally run as high as 120k but editors would prefer to see them stay below 100k. The second or third in a particularly bestselling series can go even higher. But it shouldn�t be word count for the sake of word count.

paranormal romance = 85k to 100k

romance = 85k to 100k

category romance = 55k to 75k

cozy mysteries = 65k to 90k

horror = 80k to 100k

western = 80k to 100k (Keep in mind that almost no editors are buying Westerns these days.)

mysteries, thrillers and crime fiction = A newer category of light paranormal mysteries and hobby mysteries clock in at about 75k to 90k. Historical mysteries and noir can be a bit shorter, at 80k to 100k. Most other mystery/thriller/crime fiction falls right around the 90k to 100k mark.

mainstream/commercial fiction/thrillers = Depending upon the kind of fiction, this can vary: chick lit runs anywhere from 80k word to 100k words; literary fiction can run as high as 120k but lately there�s been a trend toward more spare and elegant literary novels as short as 65k. Anything under 50k is usually considered a novella, which isn�t something agents or editors ever want to see unless the editor has commissioned a short story collection. (Agent Kristin Nelson has a good post about writers querying about manuscripts that are too short.)

science fiction & fantasy = Here�s where most writers seem to have problems. Most editors I�ve spoken to recently at major SF/F houses want books that fall into the higher end of the adult fiction you see above; a few of them told me that 100k words is the ideal manuscript size for good space opera or fantasy. For a truly spectacular epic fantasy, some editors will consider manuscripts over 120k but it would have to be something extraordinary. I know at least one editor I know likes his fantasy big and fat and around 180k. But he doesn�t buy a lot at that size; it has to be astounding. (Read: Doesn�t need much editing.) And regardless of the size, an editor will expect the author to to be able to pare it down even further before publication. To make this all a little easier, I broke it down even further below:

�-> hard sf = 90k to 110k
�-> space opera = 90k to 120k
�-> epic/high/traditional/historical fantasy = 90k to 120k
�-> contemporary fantasy = 90k to 100k
�-> romantic SF = 85k to 100k
�-> urban fantasy = 90k to 100k
�-> new weird = 85k to 110k
�-> slipstream = 80k to 100k
�-> comic fantasy = 80k to 100k
�-> everything else = 90k to 100k

# ¿ Apr 1, 2014 18:55

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Yeah, 2k to 10k a day is an impressive amount but not as impressive as less words, more reading. I'm far from a good author but my writing improved by leaps and bounds when I started cutting back on daily word count goals to make time to read more.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2014 12:45

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

blue squares posted:

Jesus Christ, no. No one's first draft should be seen by other eyes.

Some authors, I would kill to pay for a "deluxe" edition that includes a completely unedited first draft.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2014 02:53

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Scrivener's the best for editing. I hate writing in it, but chopping a long-term piece up and making long-rear end notes about every single little thing that comes up is not only really soothing, but it helps you identify problems in the text.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2014 21:14

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Plus, hospitals can be incredibly political. Should she live in a small enough town, it's incredibly easy to be blacklisted by the hospital community, should you want to play with the "blacklisted talent" idea. My uncle was out of work for two years before the guy he drunkenly mouthed off at retired, and while he's not a doctor, he's been in hospital administration for pretty much my entire life.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2014 18:44

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

John Dies At The End is a pretty drat popular book (on the internet) that is a series of episodic vignettes; Dreams Underfoot by Charles de Lint is absolutely a "tv series" of a book, with each chapter being an entirely self-contained story of whimsy in a novel of connected stories. It's been done a few times; it's still a super interesting thing to do that I'd love to try out one time because you're right, blue squares - it would (potentially) be fun on a bun.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2014 13:06

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Why do you need to shift character perspectives in the middle of your chapter? Have you ever read a book that has executed that well? There's no hard set rule saying "don't do that" but unless you're a fuckin' phenomenal writer, I'd really rather not read that happening. One of my favorite recent reads, Life And Death Are Wearing Me Out by Mo Yan, has its final chapters start doing exactly that and it was a huge detractor from the overall experience. See, even if you telegraph it well, it's super awkward and annoying to get in the mindset of one character then suddenly deal with seeing things from someone else's perspective.

If you need to get to another character's viewpoint, just change the chapter. It just reads real crummy.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2014 19:09

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Sitting Here posted:

I'm glad a bunch of (mostly) unknown aspiring writers have agreed for the 1400th time that some crits are useful and good and some aren't. Really glad. Currently thanking whatever deity compelled me to bookmark this thread.

Can we bitch about how hard it is to write a novel with like themes and poo poo instead? I'm still first draftin' through my first book, and right now all I can do is pump out rough, utilitarian action/dialog/description. I'm really big on books with ~meaning~ beyond just "here is what happened to some people, the end".

I'm assuming that this is a second draft problem, but I'm curious what other people's approaches are, since asking about it here is way easier than writing the drat book and finding out for myself

At the moment, I'm writing a thing about two friends becoming enemies, and it's one of those things that I'm glad I have Scrivener for - I'm not necessarily trying to write anything other than loose ideas of betrayal or moral decline, but I've noticed myself unconsciously repeating other themes and when I do that, I'll alt-tab to Scrivener and make note of what I did and how it works.

I've heard a lot of novelists will just write their story then use their edits to put a theme or message or whatever in through rewrites, and I think that's a good idea, but as I'm picking up on the occasional thing here and there (Manny's been intimidated by someone! Maybe I can start writing his chapters as having the theme of intimidation!) I'll just make a note in Scrivener in a folder called Themes, and I'll just make a quick note about how I can use that again in the future.

I also tend to start each chapter with a theme/concept/whatever and write to that, and if I can, I like to contrast the underlying idea behind a chapter with the one just before it. So, say I write a chapter where a character goes and meets a priest who gives her some advice, I'll try and make the next chapter either have another character meet a criminal who gives advice or I'll make the same character try and follow said advice only to have it blow up in her face. If I can wrangle it, I'll make it happen involving religion too. That's a kind of lovely example, but it works. If I'm too ham-handed, I'll take that poo poo out in a rewrite, or space the scenes further apart, or just subtle it out some.

Basically that was a whole bunch of words to say "I let themes show themselves then try and repeat them."

# ¿ Apr 24, 2014 19:58

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Holy poo poo, that's a really good idea. I just had Calibri as my default font set across everything, but switching to Garamond just seems, I dunno, nicer. I think I'm going to switch my font every time I hit a bit of writer's block from now on; what a simple way to make this thing seem new.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2014 15:29

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

I think portal fantasy's not really suited for adult audiences unless you're subverting the trope in a really tongue in cheek jokey fashion, like, telling a story from the point of view of a team of D&D adventurers who suddenly appeared in Times Square. It's just a really juvenile way of infodumping all the ways your fantasy world is SO DIFFERENT from the modern world. It works for childrens fiction because they're not as familiar with the trope or need their hands held a little bit more to come to terms with poo poo being different but for adult audiences, eugh. We've all read it.

If you think you can write something that fits with one of those exceptions then sure, knock yourself out. Write whatever you want. It's going to be one hell of a hard sell if you don't already have a name like Neil Gaiman, and you need to remember that Guy Gavriel Kay published that poo poo like thirty years ago in a dramatically different publishing ecosystem, but write whatever you want.

# ¿ May 27, 2014 16:07

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Just because people know things doesn't mean they're good at them. Or, just because something is commonplace doesn't mean people don't want to tinker with it. Maybe the detective loves making ships in bottles, but as he's levitating toothpicks into a thick wine bottle, someone comes into the work lunchroom and the toothpick vibrates and explodes the whole bottle. Later, he sees the police captain's HMS Pinafore made of sawdust inside a miniature cocktail bottle and feels embarrassed, only to have the captain look and laugh and go "hey man you busted a fuckin' thick-rear end wine bottle up with a toothpick, that's a different kind of power, but you should maybe consider practicing your aim a little better" culminating in a scene where the detective is handcuffed to a wall and has to use his levitating poo poo to pick his cuffs without exploding his wrists in half.

Or maybe the detective knows all about following genetic clues through the aether, but there's some kind of weird spiritual block and he has to find a departmental head who can pop that poo poo open, but refuses thanks to some kind of paperwork deal. Magic detective is forced to find someone from regular police who can teach him a thing or two about "regular" detectivery, showing the audience how things are different that way.

Or gently caress, maybe the main character isn't qualified to work for the MCD but nepotism and lies got him the job, now he has to fake using magic using our real-world poo poo so his damily isn't discredited. He can troll teenage messageboards for kids who want to fake having powers to be more popular to get tips, and winds up not only in over his head but accidentally using way too much teenage slang and becoming an embarrassment that way.

I just really don't like portal fantasy any more. It's awkward, clunky, and just seems like a tool for people who don't have faith in their audience. There's other, cooler ways to do infodumps - see Sanderson talking about infodumps here - and other, cooler ways to deal with alternate worlds with different rules - see the show Fringe.

# ¿ May 28, 2014 15:52

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

That's what editing's for, dude. Every fuckin' thing around you should inspire and change how you write and that's a good thing. Just pick a mood for the final piece and edit it to fit with that, you'll find a style that fits with the stories you wanna write eventually.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 14:51

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Not that I want more competition (not that I think I'm good enough yet to be considered) but Tor.com announced that they're accepting unsolicited, unagented submissions until the end of August. They're looking for complete, unpublished adult novellas/short novels above 17,500 words, with no upper limit. They explicitly want short pieces, so probably don't submit something above 50k.

What that means is, if you don't currently have a short you're working on/have worked on, and want to start today, 560 words a day will not only let you hit that bottom limit, but give you a month's editing time. I know most of us have at least one project we've worked on that fits into that awkward word length of "probably unpublishable" - here's a chance to polish that horrible turd

Here's the submission guidelines/rules/post/everything like that about it.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 15:37

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

I'd really like to talk about plot; specifically, how the hell to come up with a decent one. Most of my Thunderdome entries get the criticism "nothing really happens here," and on trying to give my wife advice on how to follow through on a story she wants to write, I realized I have no fuckin' clue what I'm doing with regards to plot. I can come up with setting/concept well enough, in longer stories I can make distinct, individual characters, but story eludes me.

I know of a bunch of different techniques; the plot circles Dan Harmon obsesses over, Sanderson's rule on making satisfying endings that work like his bullshit magic systems, Jim Butcher's advice on only ever writing questions or answers... just, y'know, none of it seems to stick in my head.

How the hell do you turn a concept into an actual story?

# ¿ Jun 17, 2014 13:17

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Symptomless Coma posted:

Interesting. How do you define "a concept", out of interest?

"A bunch of animal control agents realize they're not picking up feral cats any more, but fighting monsters."

"Three members of a family win the lottery at once, but keep it a secret and think the other member's financial successes are a result of stealing from each other."

"A thirty year old lady comes to the realization that marrying a vampire when she was 19 was actually a batshit crazy life decision."

"A man leaves his big city life to get back to nature, only to realize nature is kind of the pits."

"A small town changes entirely to the perfect communist ideal, and discovers their utopic lifestyle has made them the target of nationwide hostility."

poo poo like that. Essentially, elevator pitches that give a story concept, but not an actual skeleton. I used to think of myself as a discovery writer, but the problem with that is that I lay the groundwork for these concepts, get ten thousand or so words in, then realize I'm spinning my wheels and have no idea how to get to telling that story. Like, the first bit of writing I ever really fell in love with was Waiting for Godot, and that's a perfect example of my problem: it's a concept, with no fuckin' story whatsoever, just a group of characters spinning their wheels forever.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2014 14:49

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

The only real structure you need for a story is "write until you can connect the start point to the end." It's also why I just had to step away from thirty thousands words, because I realized I didn't have an end point in mind, just a couple of middles.

Does anyone write under a pseudonym? I'm taking advice from a few friends and forcing myself to start a blog, register a domain name, really just start building a lovely fuckin' presence for myself online, and one of the big bits of advice that gets put online is "make your name your brand, make your authorial presence an easy thing for potential editors/publishers/agents to find in a google search." Thing is, I have the same name as a record label CEO with a big PR team, and he dominates search results.

I'm a long way away from selling novel manuscripts, so I'm not super concerned just yet, but it's something I've started thinking about. I'm kind of bummed out that I can't conceivably write under my own name if I'm going to get those sweet Google first-page hits. So, does anyone write under a pseudonym? Why? How'd you pick it?

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 15:57

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

blue squares posted:

I've been reading a lot of articles about the cognitive and creative benefits of longhand and how many authors, even today, continue to do so. I decided to try it out for fun and I have really been enjoying it. I can carry my novel with me everywhere I go. Sitting in the park and writing on a notebook is a great experience. I'm also very, very ADHD and impulsive, and I have a very, very hard time controlling myself when I start to get distracted. I have no willpower.

If you're like me and have the worst handwriting in the world (and muscular issues with holding a pen for extended periods) maybe try getting an Alphasmart Neo at some point. It's not as tactile and cognitively involved as writing with a pen for sure; I'd never try and argue that point. It has made me double, or even triple, my wordcount-per-day though, and you can pick one of the things up on eBay for like $35. It's fuckin' indestructible too, and has one of the nicest keyboards I've ever typed on.

It helps with my distraction issues like crazy. My writing "kit" went from being half a dozen word files and tumblr and something awful open in other tabs to a lined notepad, some nice pens, fluorescent post-it tab markers, my Alphasmart and a folder that fits all that. Again, not a replacement for pad-and-pen, it's just stupidly helpful.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 00:18

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Zip posted:

I'm a little hesitant about those things because they look so low tech... The nagging voice in my head screams, "What if I decide to backtrack to edit something? Only 8 files? What if it doesn't back up properly? How difficult is it to get files from it to the computer?" I imagine it is just my inner demons and that it handles most of this pretty well because they seem to come highly recommended.

You said the keyboard is nice, is it a mechanical keyboard?

It's not mechanical, but it feels that way. The keys have the same give as a laptop keyboard, in that you barely need to touch them and they don't depress far, but they also have the click and solid feeling of a mechanical. When it's plugged into a computer, it can be used as the computer's keyboard, which I've found myself doing over my lovely regular keyboard.

And only eight files of, roughly, twenty pages long each, is plenty enough. It isn't a device to store an entire novel, more something to write your drafts in. It connects to a computer via a USB printer cable and saves everything in keystrokes; you plug it in, open up a word processor, select the file and press "send" - it then "types" out everything at a fast pace on screen. I read fast; it goes at pretty much my reading pace, so I like to sit there with a notepad and read as it gets transferred to the computer and take notes of obvious changes I want to make. Also, ctrl + arrow keys lets you jump up and down your files quick, so you can backtrack kind of easily... but why backtrack before it's time to edit?

It's not perfect (a slightly more angled form factor and a larger, backlit e-ink screen like a Kindle Paperwhite would make it perfect for me) but it's pretty rad. It's a portable draft machine if you don't want a pen, and nothing more.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 14:28

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

blue squares posted:

I'm completely stuck on my novel after about 120 pages, so I'm going back and making an outline about everything leading up to this point to hopefully get a better handle on the story and what should happen next. Previously I've been just winging it, but I think it's time to bring some structure into the mix.

Writing's taught me to love spreadsheets. Oh man, I love spreadsheets.

Have my default "structure" sheet. I've been using it on a few projects (and found my speed at writing drafts has greatly improved) and it's crazy helpful towards keeping structure going. I mostly wanted a sheet where I can plan out what's gunna happen in each chapter, to make sure I don't really have any "dead" space, as well as keeping everything going towards novel-length wordcounts. It auto-propagates estimated wordcounts and stuff; if you're averaging about ten pages per chapter, you wanna fill this out with roughly 40 chapters.

systran posted:

I got a rejection from them today too :c00l:

# ¿ Aug 23, 2014 00:06

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

crabrock posted:

what makes a story good?

Tits on bears with giant wangers

# ¿ Aug 27, 2014 06:00

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

No, it's true that you shouldn't write if you don't have anything to say.

"Anything to say" can literally be "this is loving sweet, hell yeah," though.

Steven Brust's one piece of writing advice: "If it's cool, write it. Why would you not try to write something that's cool?"

# ¿ Aug 27, 2014 17:13

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Don't let them get the jewel. In fact, don't just let them fail to get the jewel, but have them gently caress up and destroy the jewel. Now there's a pissed-off witch coming after them, and they need to get a replacement. Think of each conflict as a yes-or-no question: "can my rag-tag team of chums steal the car and save the day?" Answer them with "yes, but" "no" or "no, and."

Remember, you're not running a tabletop roleplaying game. You don't need your players to go home at the end of the gaming night feeling satisfied to make sure they come back next week. You need to make characters people want to see succeed, give them a task to succeed at, and have them fail horribly. Over and over. The book ends when you've finally had a solid "yes, and" to a major question.

Wungus fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Aug 30, 2014

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 23:24

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

same but w/dinosaurs. ankylosaurus, gobisaurus, gargoylosaurus parkpinorum, it don't matter so long as i got my sweet 'rift

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 15:09

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 15:17

Wungus: Mar 5, 2004

Bobby Deluxe posted:

TLDR: If you feel you have to include a boring detail in your story, combine it with something interesting.

I have half of an abandoned story on my computer that opens with "It was a dark and stormy night. The warm fronts of the last three days finally broke as the sun set, when a patch of cold air drifted in from the nearby Appalachians. My neighbor twisted his ankle in his panic to bring in his new patio furniture before the rising humidity condensed and ionized in the upper atmosphere. The first few droplets hit the suede like raw eggs on pavement, before a flash of light opened the sky and turned his six thousand dollar status symbol into a four thousand dollar repair bill. Wind tore sheets of rain one way, then the other, backwards and forwards in seizure patterns through the light beams of my porch halogen. Trees creaked and cracked whenever thunder fell quiet. Then, I decided to make it hail."

# ¿ Sep 9, 2014 15:23

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