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Anais Nun posted:First pages are notoriously difficult to get right. Don't worry about it. Definitely don't worry about it until you have a first draft. In my experience second drafts are so dissimilar from the first that you'll need a whole new beginning anyway, so start whereever you like. You can always come back to the beginning. Nothing is written in blood. It can all be changed. Since you brought up "second draft", I feel this is as good a time as any to ask the question that's been weighing on my mind recently. How do you all approach second drafts? Do you edit your manuscript with a pen and then insert the edits you've made into your word processor of choice? Do you rewrite some of it or most of it? Do you simply put your manuscript down and start right from page 1 and completely write the story or novel again from scratch? I ask because I finished my first ever first draft of a novel in April and, after taking a couple months off to not look at or think about it, started editing with a pen and notepad. I've also started returning to the manuscript on the computer and typing my edits in. So far it has worked okay, but at times it also feels like I'm shortchanging myself because I have some big, sweeping changes to the story I want to implement. Right now, I'm thinking I could correct all the grammatical & legibility errors to form a "draft 1.5" and then insert the big story changes to round out the second draft. Obviously I realize a second draft would not mark the end of the editing process, so I'm not asking how to turn my lovely first draft into a golden second. Drafts and edits will surely continue after the second is done. I'm more looking for a little advice on how some of you go about transitioning from first to second drafts, especially with regards to novels. After all, I've never actually been in this position before 
Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 19:27
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Anais Nun posted:I find it easier not to worry too much about grammar and legibility in the second draft because my first drafts are always such a total mess. The second draft should really be about fixing the biggest issues with your novel. If you want to cut out a character or a plot thread this is the time to do it. If you want to insert a new plot twist or take one out then now's your opportunity. Thanks, this is super helpful and cuts right into the anxiety I was having about shortchanging myself during the editing process. I've always been a stickler for grammar and making sure paragraphs flow into one another, so it'll be a bit of a challenge to force myself not to do that right from the get go. Still, I'm willing to give it a shot.
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Jul 17, 2012 19:38
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Anais Nun posted:The anxiety will probably never leave you. Yeah, I let it sit in my desk drawer for almost two months before I took it back out and read through it the first time. Then I started getting really edit-heavy with the grammar and stuff which was when I started to feel like I was really moving off-base. Thanks a ton for your advice, it's been super helpful. I'm going to put it aside for a little bit longer (probably just a couple weeks this time) and return to it with the idea of finding places to improve the story rather than the prose. Considering I want to make some big changes to the story anyway, it's probably best that I take some time to get out of grammar-edit mode before diving right back in.
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Jul 18, 2012 14:49
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I'm doing something similar, but I'm giving them each their own chapter. You might want to consider longer sections or separate chapters instead of just one or two paragraphs, though. Ping-ponging between perspectives every 2 paragraphs could be confusing and off-putting to the reader. He could even take the Bret Easton Ellis approach and literally just put the character's name right at the beginning of each transition a la Rules of Attraction.
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Jul 18, 2012 14:58
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Baggy_Brad posted:Adding a post to this thread because I've read so much of the last one and all of this one. Don't give up. It's a hard hurdle to get over, and the truth is it probably is terrible from a prose perspective. But the real point of first drafts for long-form stories (be they novel or whatever else) is to get the story down and see if the narrative is coherent and interesting. In my past, I was a slave to the awful habit of editing as I wrote. With short stories that was never a big deal because it was still pretty easy to get something out in 1-2 weeks without losing too much of the story. But with novels you simply can't do that. It'll take you years to finish and the story will actually be less coherent because of how meticulous and anal you were with making sure everything read right. You'd probably burn out before you finished it anyway. So writing my own first novel was a great exercise in turning the editor in me off and the storyteller on. Yeah, in the end the first draft was a jumbled mess of misspelled words, run-on sentences and cliched, boring descriptions. But the story was still there and just having that turn out right was enough to make me want to continue on to subsequent drafts (with a little help and advice from the folks in this thread, of course). Hang in there, and don't let the fear of your draft's alleged terribleness block you from getting it done. The feeling of actually finishing a full-length manuscript is about as close to divine as you can get on this earth. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 15:11
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WYA posted:Would it hurt my chances to get published if I used the word friend of the family in my zombie apocalypse story? Ever since the Mark Twain thing I've always been so paranoid about wielding my artistic license Erik already did a good job explaining it, but I'll add my two cents - does your story need "friend of the family" in it in order to further the narrative from either a character or plot perspective? If the answer is "yes" then you should use it, if the answer is "no" then you shouldn't. This is true for any and all words that can be viewed as inappropriate in given circumstances, not just racially charged ones. There are authors who can write a book full of "fucks" and "shits" and all kinds of profanity, then turn around and write a book with none. It's all about the context of how it's used and whether the story requires it. You should never use language for language's sake - it's fairly obvious when it's the case and can turn people off.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:03
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:I wrote a sex scene near the end of my novel and was trying to convince my beta reader, who was a bit posh and shy, just to read it. She asked me did it feature any racy words. I knew how she was about certain things, so I told her the "c word" was in it. She flipped out and got all offended. After a few minutes of confusion I said it was a proper medical term. She had thought I meant oval office, but I was referencing clitoris and just knew she was a bit shy about anything having to do with that sort of thing in discussion. Oh my advice wasn't concerning whether people get offended or not by something you write in a story, and it has nothing to do with using the "proper" term or utilizing provocative words in a sensible way. I mean, there are people out there who will be offended if you use "drat" or "hell" in your story or even if you simply allude to sex without ever explicitly showing it. People will always be offended by stuff in stories, but if the story requires offensive terms or phrases in order to better tell the story, then gently caress their sensitivities. The Rules Of Attraction, for example, would certainly be less offensive to certain people if all the sexual content was taken out, but then the entire purpose of the book would be lost. I agree with you that friend of the family is an extreme case, based on where our society is with regards to that word and its usage. My advice for the original poster was merely concerned with whether it had a purpose in the story or if they were just using the word to be edgy or offensive. If it's the former, then you should feel free to use whatever language you want. If it's the latter, it might want to consider scrapping it.
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Jan 16, 2013 16:01
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Didja Redo posted:I think he means the thing where Huckleberry Finn got censored for the n-word, but it doesn't matter because it likely wasn't a sincere question. Based on WYA's post history and rap sheet, where I've since found he likes to drop the n-bomb in basically every post he makes, I'm going to assume you're correct and admit I feel silly for answer the question now.
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Jan 16, 2013 16:09
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Pinball posted:Welp, I've finally finished a novel draft. 132,192 words. It's probably complete crap, but at least I can say that I've finished a novel, which is pretty cool. Now it's just revising the drat thing and hopefully that doesn't take another ten years (although to be fair, I had the idea for this novel when I was thirteen). Holy poo poo we sound like the exact same person. Last April I finished my first ever first draft of a novel, which was also an epic multi-book series that I'd been envisioning since I was thirteen. Congrats! I would do exactly what you suggested in your second post and move on to writing something different and (preferably) shorter, but the big key factor is that you don't stop writing. It's very easy, especially after the first one, to take a break from writing and relax for a while. While a short break may be warranted, just beware that you run the risk of falling out of your rhythm. I think I took almost two months off writing when I finished my first - a big big mistake on my part, as it took several weeks to find my footing again. Now I'm writing every day, and have since finished a few shorter stories and am on the cusp of completing the first draft of my second novel, which is a wholly new story that has absolutely nothing to do with the first. My suggestion would be to make the next project something totally new and original, as it's very liberating from both a writing and a creative perspective to create something from nothing. I think of my "thirteen-year-old" story as my baby, and thus it was very important to get it out since it'd been trapped for so long. But the funny this about it is my writing since then has improved so much just on the basis of doing it consistently and writing completely original content. Fact is, when I finally return to that first story in however many years, I already know I'm basically going to want to write the whole thing over from scratch, as my work has already improved enough to make that first draft look like an utter disaster. Still, finishing that first draft is a hell of an accomplishment and you should feel nothing but pride in having accomplished it. Good luck with your future creations! Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 15:47
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Another (sorta) example of where in-world epigraphs are perfectly utilized is Anathem by Neal Stephenson, where he begins a lot of sections and scenes with definitions of made-up terms straight from the in-world dictionary.
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Feb 6, 2013 19:56
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Sitting Here posted:Question: How painstaking are you when developing the climate and geography of a non-earth world (thinking more fantasy here than literally other planets in this universe)? For example, I'm writing about people who live on an isthmus in an area that has a roughly Mediterranean climate, and since they're fishers and farmers I have to figure out what would live and grow in that area, and so on. And then what starts as a simple scene with a villager getting run down on a clam field by a guy on a horse turns into a bunch of research about whether there would even BE clam fields in an area like that, or whether they would need to dive for clams, or what. After a while it starts to feel like a pointless holdup. A lot of good responses on this already, but I'll add my two cents. From my own experience, I find it best to say "gently caress it" right off the bat during a first draft and save any authenticity and research for the rewrite/second draft. The first draft of anything should be about setting the tone, creating the characters and realizing the story. Your focus should not be about whether a clam field would exist in that environment, it should about why the guy on the horse is running this dude down and how the villagers around react and what twists and turns and conflicts this event leads to. Very few people are going to read your first draft anyway, so there's really no reason to give a poo poo if certain facets aren't realistic or scientifically accurate, since you can use the second draft to research and fix those issues. Like, if I'm writing a story where these dudes are flying a helicopter, I don't spend hours researching the ins and outs of how a helicopter flies. That will put me way off topic anyway and then I'll spend the first draft worried about getting the details of the helicopter right without placing the proper consideration on how these dudes are supposed to be reacting now that they've been shot out of the sky. World building is obviously a good thing, especially in Fantasy/Sci-Fi where the worlds are often not real. But no matter how detailed your world is, it won't make much difference if your characters are boring or your story is incomprehensible. Worry about batting down those hatches first before thinking about the nuts and bolts. If your farmers work in a clam field, then god dammit they work in a clam field (and, as someone previously said, most readers won't give a poo poo whether or not a clam field could actually exist in your environment).
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Feb 26, 2013 16:51
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Jinnigan posted:Do y'all have any advice for any honest to god new writers? I got it into my head to learn some basic fiction writing (I'm a fine nonfiction writer) but as soon as I actually sat down to try and write I froze up with anxiety and insecurity and ignorance. I don't even know where to start. Any suggestions? In accordance with the advice given by earlier poster, I would also recommend reading On Writing by Stephen King. There are hundreds of books on writing, but I'll still jump back in and read relevant passages if I find myself stuck on a draft or edit or something. It's quick, simple, and offers a very personal insight into the world of writing that you don't get with the more "instructional" books. While there's a lot of useful knowledge to gain, I think the biggest thing the book accomplishes is building an excitement to writing (at least, it does for me). You should never look at writing as a chore of course, but sometimes your enthusiasm can wane, and it's those moments where this book comes the most in handy for me.
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Apr 4, 2013 15:35
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Ihmemies, maybe you mentioned this already and I missed it but I have a question: have you written a first draft yet or are you gearing up to begin it and wanted to float some ideas in here?
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Apr 22, 2013 20:00
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Ihmemies posted:Still planning. Many of my ideas sound so good when thinking about them myself, but as seen here, discussion can help to consider them in a different light Hm, okay, well first off, I suggest you pick up On Writing by Stephen King. It's a quick read and very insightful. I still reference it from time to time if I get into a writing funk. Second, since you haven't actually begun the first draft yet, let me give you some advice - start the first draft. The fact of the matter is your first draft is probably going to suck, but that's okay because the only person who's ever going to read it is yourself and maybe a few close friends (like a significant other or sibling, for example). The advice you've heard previously w/r/t info-dumps and the like is all very good advice, but it's honestly not something I would overly concern myself with during the first draft. The first draft should be written solely for yourself, in order to get the story down and begin the process of accessing who the characters are. No amount of planning or outlining or thinking on it is going to tell you the exact personality of your characters; most of that will come out simply by giving them their dialog and writing their interactions with the world around them and the conflicts within. As for info-dumps, for the first draft I say "gently caress it." Write as much information as you want so that you can get your facts straight and get your world out there. Then, in the second draft, you can worry about actually incorporating that stuff into you book in a way that doesn't bog the narrative down and make it unbearable or boring for your reader. The truth is, as much as you try to avoid the "delete all this crap and integrate it into character-driven parts" scenario, I absolutely guarantee you'll be attacking it head on at some point during the writing process. Rewriting is hard, and at times even scary, but you're going to end up doing it at one point or another whether you want to or not. Who knows? You may actually enjoy it. The first time I attempted a full re-write of a manuscript I was scared out of my mind, but by the time I got 10K words in I knew this 10K was already significantly better than the 100K that had made up the first draft. Don't be afraid to gently caress up in your first draft because you're going to, and having anxiety about whether or not something is good for "the reader" is only going to add to your stress. Don't worry about "the reader" in your first draft, just worry about getting the story out for yourself. Then, in the editing and revising/rewriting phase, you can buckle down and start thinking about writing the story for your readers. Sheesh, this post ended up way longer than I meant it to. TL:DR version is dive in and start writing your novel immediately, without any reservations or anxieties about what works and what doesn't. Your first draft will have a hefty helping of both. And besides, it sounds like you've thought about it enough to have a pretty good idea of the story you're trying to tell. So crack out that laptop/PC/typewriter/whatever the gently caress and crank that bad boy out 
Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 21:09
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magnificent7 posted:Great posts so far, but just want to add my two cents. The best way to become a better writer, aside from the aforementioned "read all the time", is to also write all the time. Like seriously - every. single. day. Find a time in your day where you're always doing nothing and when your body and mind will be refreshed and make that your dedicated writing time. For me personally, I write every morning from 5:30 to 7 (if not longer) before I have to go to work at 8. I used to write after work, but my job sometimes gets stressful and after a hard day I would just want to come home and pop a beer and watch TV/read a book/play a videogame/hang out with friends/indulge a billion other distractions that would keep me from writing. But at 5:30 in the morning, I'm never going to be doing any of that poo poo, so it's the perfect time for me to sit down at my computer and let the creative process do its thing. It was tough at first, since I'd never previously been a morning person, but I've gotten so used to it now that my day feels drab and incomplete if I don't do it, like I've let myself down somehow. It's actually allowed me to appreciate my weekends more too, since I can sit down to write in the morning as usual and not have to worry about a precise stopping time. Remember that my "writing time" is specifically selected due to my daily life. If it makes more sense for you to have your writing time in the afternoon or evening, then go for it, but just make sure it's a time schedule you can keep, without any outside interference. It's a lot like having a good workout routine actually - most personal trainers will tell you to work out the same time everyday during a time when you know you won't get distracted. Writing is very similar to working out in that respect (and different in just about every other). For all I know you may already have this kind of thing sorted for yourself, but if you don't, you need to. It'll not only improve your writing, but improve your patience and persistence with writing as well.
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May 9, 2013 20:30
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"Micro editing" makes sense on, say, a 2nd or 3rd draft, but the 1st draft? I'm surprised your friend finishes anything. That said, every writer is different so who am I to judge.
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May 14, 2013 21:05
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Thoren posted:Some college writing workshops even assign eavesdropping as homework. Mine did! I ended up sitting on a train listening to two bros talk about Madden '06 (the newest iteration at the time). It wasn't very interesting, but it made for fun reading in my next class.
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May 21, 2013 14:03
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systran posted:Practice writing short stories and prose first. This should really be the subtitle of this thread's name.
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May 21, 2013 20:27
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magnificent7 posted:
Important doesn't equal "better", however I think what Crabrock is saying has a lot of merit. You can have the most interesting, exciting, wonderful things happening in your story, but if its written in a clunky, grammatically horrible manner then readers will put the book down and move on. Conversely, well-written prose moves a story along and gives the illusion of important things happening even if they're not (granted, if its not important, it probably doesn't need to be in your story, but that's a whole different discussion). Take a movie, for example; it doesn't matter how amazing the story is if the acting, cinematography, editing and whatever else is utter garbage. You'll either turn that movie off after 5 minutes or watch it without taking it seriously. Great prose can usually save a mediocre story, but a great story cannot always be saved by mediocre prose. Also, magnificent7 posted:Can't it be a shallow mindless tale? Like an Aesop's Fable? Why did the three pigs insist on making three different kinds of houses? Didn't they all think the one made from sticks was a stupid idea? I'm really not trying to be a jerk but insinuating Aesop's Fables were "shallow mindless tales" is mind-numbingly stupid. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 18:06 on May 28, 2013 |
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May 28, 2013 17:51
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To add to the "Join the dome, get better" brigade, I did my first dome a few weeks ago and my story got rightfully ripped to shreds. The biggest piece of criticism I received from the three judges was that I spent way too much time describing mundane poo poo and not enough time making sure interesting poo poo happened. So I took a week off, thought about what the judges said, then entered again and concentrated on pulling back on the mundane and keeping the narrative moving forward. I ended up being a runner-up that week, and I credit every scrap of that accomplishment to the criticisms leveled at me from my previous story. Yeah, sometimes people can be harsh, but a harsh critique is honestly the best kind you can get because it means they want to help you get better. So unless someone literally says, "Stop it dude, find a different hobby and never write again," you should take the criticism as a measure of how you can improve rather than as, "People hate me, I suck, I'm quitting," or, the even worse, "gently caress those guys, they don't know what they're talking about."
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May 29, 2013 15:02
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crabrock posted:I edited it out already but it was something like: "just make sure this doesn't trace back to me." Just make sure it doesn't trace back to this thread, k?
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Jun 14, 2013 15:16
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crabrock posted:So I have this problem where sometimes I write for myself. Like after I write something I think "well, people aren't going to like that." My last thunderdom is an example of this. Both the judges found it confusing and awkward, but that's the mood I was in. I'm still don't feel bad for doing it. I can write more clearly, and I do so when I want to, but I usually get bored. I still have to go back and edit out a lot of weird lines. Help. I'll be honest - I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for when you ask for "help" because I don't see how what you're describing is a problem. There's no hard-cut rule that says everything you write has to be something for other people to read. Sometimes saying "gently caress it" and writing whatever the hell you please, with the innate knowledge/purpose of never sharing it with anyone else, can be beneficial both from a learning perspective and a creative one. You don't want to do it all the time of course, but there's nothing wrong with taking a break and just writing for yourself every once and a while, even if just to get the gears cranking.
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Jun 18, 2013 20:37
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elfdude posted:I would agree with you. The problem is that for me I feel like someone who's unfamiliar with the concept of what a multiplication symbol is being told to multiply 4 and 4, and when I naturally seek help with the concept I'm told that I'm stupid stop trying. My sense of grammar is entirely instinctual not logical which makes trying to identify what isn't correct as far as grammar is concerned quite difficult. I can do pretty well in many cases and I know many 'quick' rules which help out but from a technical perspective I've never truly understood what makes something correct. That said, when I read the story aloud I realized just how insanely poor that grammar was. I can hear it but I can't really identify why or what it is. This is complicated by my insider bias which is to say, I can understand what I mean because I'm me, which means even if it's not correct I'll often read it as though it were. From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're asking for an easy fix to improper grammar, but the simple fact is there isn't one. There are many different facets to books that are subjective: theme, plot, motivations, etc. can always be taken on the merit of what is being put on display in a story's structure. Grammar isn't one of those things; either it's right or it's not. That you say you have "quick rules" to help you out grammatically leads me to believe you perhaps don't quite understand just how fundamental grammar is to telling a coherent and engaging story. It's like trying to shoot a movie without putting film stock in the camera (or, if we want to go all 21st century with this analogy, forgetting to load an SD card). Being able to form a well structured sentence is not something you can just learn with a few tips and tricks from more competent writers and a handful of "quick rules." There are reasons we have English and Composition classes thrust upon us at basically every level of education. Anyway, this isn't the thread for critiquing work - that's the fiction farm thread, which you've already found. And it appears to me you've already received a couple very thorough critiques of your work, so I would suggest reading over those very carefully and gleaning what you can. Another suggest: start a new story. Sometimes trying to take the things you've learned and plugging them into an utter mess only makes things worse and stunts your growth. Take the advice people have given you, really really ingest it (and believe me - from reading your exert, you need to ingest it), then start something else from scratch and see what transpires. Edit: also, as other's have suggested, read a lot. Like, A LOT. Edit 2: and to add a little bit of clarification - when I say grammar is either right or it's not, I'm not saying it's a hard-lined thing that should keep you up at night with worry. Obviously there are plenty of successful authors who bend grammatical rules as it suits their story, but they can do so because they already have firm grasp of the rules. At the risk of sounding clique, you have to know the rules in order to effectively break the rules. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 23:32
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elfdude posted:
Honestly if that's what you want then you came to the wrong place to seek your answers, because there's not a person in this forum who could explain all the complex technicalities of grammar in a single post. We can give you suggestions on how you might develop and improve your understanding of grammar (and we have, whether you want to follow the advice or not), but we can't say "hey, here's how to be a good writer!."
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Feb 14, 2014 01:34
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elfdude posted:
Improvement is the name of the game. We're all improving, all the time, so in that aspect you're already well on your way. We've all been through instances where our writing was far below par. Hell, just the other day I randomly pulled out some of my short stories from college and it was basically a 2-hour long cringe fest (the consumption of booze began about 15 minutes in, which may have affected the amount of cringe to some degree). Yet at the same time I don't regret the poo poo that sucked because it has allowed me to compose the poo poo that hasn't sucked - or, at least, hasn't sucked as hard. I agree with your general perspective that punctuation is your weakest suit. Now, mastery of that skill won't necessarily turn your crap to gold, but garnering a clear understanding of what works well and what doesn't will assist you greatly in your quest to become a better writer. A couple quick suggestions I'll add to my earlier posts - a) Have you read On Writing by Stephen King? I highly recommend it if you haven't. It doesn't get as technical as Elements of Style or Eats, Shoots, and Leaves, but it does give a very comprehensive view on the various aspects of writing good fiction as told by someone who obviously has a pretty good idea of what they're talking about. Honestly it's my favorite book on the craft and I can't praise it enough. b) If you haven't already, set up a daily time to write. Not something that you come to sometimes or every once in a while - something you can do every. single. day. Unless you're a gypsy or juggle nothing but odd jobs, you've probably got at least some routine to you day. For me, I write every morning from 5 to 7, but that's only because I find that to be when I'm most productive. If you work better noon to 2PM or 6 to 8PM, then go with that. And keep in mind I'm only using two hour blocks as an example, not as a hard set rule; it might be easier to start with a half hour and work up as you get used to it. The main key is to write every day; Once you've got that part down, you can start going for longer and longer periods.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:03
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Testro posted:I think Mr Belding has misremembered the advice, which usually goes: Yeah, I think he was thinking of that Neil Gaiman quote (which is basically what you posted) and just got his words mixed up.
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Feb 23, 2014 17:06
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Shageletic posted:I got highlights in my head, then purposefully don't think about it until I sit in front of the computer. Otherwise the excitement dies, and I lose interest. Half the fun is seeing what pours out and buttress the flashes going off in my head. This is more or less my modus operandi as well. When I sit down, I have an idea of the how my story begins and how it ends, as well as a handful of moments or scenes to get me from one end to the other. Outside of that, I don't really do any pre-planning. Sometimes I don't even know who the characters are going to be aside from the main protagonist(s) and the main antagonist(s). This method has it's pros and cons, as any method will. Hell, I can even see the value of rigorous preparation with outlines and character bios and world maps and whatever else, especially if your story involves multiple books. But for me, the purest form of my creativity comes when I'm making it up as I go along, and I tend to enjoy re-reading those stories much more than my carefully crafted ones. Edit: it should be mentioned I'm talking mostly about first drafts here. Obviously once you get past those, a story needs to take on some semblance of coherency and consistency and you need to edit and rewrite with that in mind. But that's a whole different discussion. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 21:44
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Martello posted:Don't get lost in your world-building though. I recommend coming up with a general setting, and then start writing. As you go, you'll happen on some piece of technology or cultural thing or whatever, and you can stop to figure it out then. If you just spend months building the world, you'll never get anywhere. I concur with this wholeheartedly. Most readers, when they sit down with a work of fiction, are looking for a good story. Yes, a beautifully realized world with fascinating details is an important element to crafting a good novel, but if the story is a slog then it typically doesn't matter how brilliant your setting is, as readers will get bored. Honestly I wouldn't worry about keeping tech "consistent" with a first draft. In the second or third? Sure, that poo poo needs to have sense and purpose, but your initial goal should be to get the story out and make sure it's compelling and coherent. If I remember correctly, Stephen King mentions in him memoir that he basically doesn't do any research or planning before starting a first draft. If he comes across a scientific or historical fact that's imperative to his story, he just bullshits the explanation and then researches it and corrects it in further drafts. You may want to try a similar approach with regards to the technology of your far future sci-fi, just so you can get the words on the page and figure out where the story needs work.
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Mar 6, 2014 16:35
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Axel Serenity posted:That actually brings up another good question: how many of you guys tend to go chronological and how many will write scenes then stitch them together later? Chronological for me - I like going along with the story as it's unfolding
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Mar 7, 2014 11:44
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:When do you come up with your titles? It's probably some weird mental thing, but I always go into a story with a title. It's usually generic and boring, but still manages to capture the overall spirit of the piece and allows me to give the project a name. Giving it a name makes it feel like a real, tangible thing to me and somehow allows my brain the freedom to construct the narrative. Now, more often than not, a better title presents itself over the course of writing the story and the initial title gets scrapped. This is fine because I don't get emotionally attached to that first title, I just need it at the beginning to start the story. For example, I may have started off calling this post "The Title Post" but by the end decide to change it to "Cpt. Gandhi's Completely Psychotic Title-Making Theory That May Or May Not Assist CB_Tube_Knight." e: To put it more concisely, I choose a title when I start a story, but don't choose the title until I'm done. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Mar 19, 2014 |
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Mar 19, 2014 15:48
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Is there a certain amount of words you should devote to each act in a novel? A decent guideline? I'm currently finishing up Act 1 of the second draft of my book and it's sitting at about 13k words. I'm aiming for about 65k total. Have I fallen short? Gone too far? It makes sense that Act 2 is the longest but I don't have a good idea of how much longer it needs to be. I mean, unless your second act is much much longer than your first, it sounds like you're going to come up short of that 65k you're aiming for. Not that that's a bad thing, as sometimes 45-50k is all you need to tell a compelling novel. Just look at Bradbury or Vonnegut for example. What genre is it specifically, if you don't mind me asking?
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Apr 10, 2014 12:46
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blue squares posted:I would suggest leaving any mention of writers block out for as long as you can. I've read online about agents/editors hating that trope because they see it constantly. This, 100%. Writing about writer's block is really hackneyed and should be avoided at all costs unless you can do something absurdly creative with it. And even then, I'd stay away. It sounds like you have enough of a plot idea anyway to where you should be able to avoid it without it impacting your story.
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Apr 17, 2014 15:57
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Martello posted:Speaking of POV characters, I'm working on a novel right now (used to be a short story) and I decided to really flesh out the protag's girlfriend to the point where she's the other main character. My plan is to alternate chapters between them, but not to the GRRM extent of naming each chapter either "Bronco" or "Holly." I'm thinking that some of their chapters will overlap to show different sides of the same scene, with some anamolies in dialogue lines and event details to indicate somewhat unreliable narrators. Anyone think that sounds dumb or cool or anything else? Obviously it's all execution but just wondering what people think about the concept. The concept definitely works if done properly. See The Rules of Attraction by Bret Easton Ellis--I'm pretty sure he does exactly what you've described at least a few times in that book and it's brilliant.
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May 2, 2014 19:24
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Meinberg posted:Option B is outlining. There are lots of way of outlining. One I've recently come across that I'd like to try is to write out the major scenes you want on an index card, then lay them out in order. Then, write index cards for the scenes needed to connect those scenes together. Then, you can go and write those scenes one at a time. For longer novels (100K+ words) this is the option I use and I love it. Less than that and I can usually get away with discovery writing.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:30
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Two Steps From Hell and many groups like it (Audiomachine, Future World Music, Immediate Music, etc) are the backbone of my writing music so you're not alone.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:16
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Got a formatting question for y'all: what's your stance on widows and orphans? And, to take it one step further, what's the typical industry stance when it comes to seeing them in manuscripts? I like to write without them because that way I don't feel like I have to produce more or less words to prevent a large blank space at the end of a page, but is it something agents and publishers like, dislike, or even care about?
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Aug 12, 2014 22:45
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The first time I ever entered TD my story was poo poo and I received several harsh critiques, so in turn I took those critiques and applied them to my next story and got an HM. I guess what I'm saying is critiques are two fold and depend both on the person giving you one and how you respond to it. If you respond with a big "gently caress you" then the only person you're hurting is yourself.
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Sep 17, 2014 15:19
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Does that advice still hold if the problem is you need to add another character? Presumably this new character is imperative to future plot points, yes? If so, introduce them now. Don't go back and introduce them earlier or rewrite from the beginning; find a way to bring them in now so that they are there and ready for you when you reach the point in the story where they are necessary. If you feel the character needs to be introduced quicker once you read your completed first draft, then do so in the second draft. Typically, I just think it's always a bad idea to suddenly scrap what you're writing and go back to the beginning without finishing. That's what second and third and etc. drafts are for. Or, if your first draft really really isn't working for whatever reason or you're growing to hate the subject matter, it's probably best to just shelve the story completely and save it for a latter date.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:52
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crabrock posted:Write as if somebody was going to read your story out loud. This helps define a rhythm and prosody to your prose. If something sounds out of place, make it not so. This kind of stuff usually determines if i leave little words in or take them out. Kinda piggy-backing off this, but I actually find it really beneficial to literally read the story out loud once it's done. I notice a lot more spelling and grammatical errors and it helps me pick out clunky, awkward sentences that need retooling. "But Gandhi, I have a 100,000 word novel!!! You want me to read the whole thing out loud???" Hell yeah, I read a 100,000 word novel out loud too and it helped me cut out like 10k worth of completely unnecessary words and sentences.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:51
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Hungry posted:I read a 120k word first draft out loud and I want to gut myself. Hooray. Oh yeah, I didn't say it was fun, only that it helps. Also, chalk another up to the morning writing crowd. I get up at 4:40 AM every weekday and write from 5 to 6:30 before doing the whole breakfast/get ready for work routine. On weekends I still write in the mornings but it's usually more around 9 or so since I can wake up when I want and stay up/out as late as I want the evening before.
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Oct 9, 2014 15:25
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