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Bookmarked, holy poo poo. I'm absolutely a fan of non-standard engine swaps, but if it was me, I would be worried that without some kind of V8 (AMC or GM or whatever) under the hood it's going to feel wrong. Basically I'm worried that you'll get it drivable only to find you feel like you're driving an MR2 with a terrible Ferrari 355 bodykit. But I guess with 500hp you can probably out-drag anyone who disagrees with you, and whatever makes you happy etc etc.
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Jul 17, 2012 13:58
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Raluek posted:I'd imagine you could hot up the 360 some. Even take a later one out of a junkyard Grand Cherokee or something so you can preserve your original motor. Edelbrock makes aluminum heads and an RV cam for them, and I'd be surprised if someone like Crane or Comp couldn't make you something more radical than that. Edelbrock also makes a MPFI kit for the AMC motors, but it's kind of spendy. Or, you could put a 401 in it. The 360 you speak of from the Grand Cherokee is a different 360ci v8 (it's a Dodge motor) than the AMC 360. I'm sure you could make it work, but don't expect it to bolt up the same as the AMC 360. Other motors that will drop right in are the AMC 304 and the AMC 390. AMC 304ci engines are common and cheap, and there is no point to going to one. The 360 is the next common and it's a fine motor once it's faults have been addressed (these are the same faults that all AMC v8 share). The 390 is rare as hell, forget about it. The 401 is third most common and can be a real beast with a little work. All these motors share the same dimensions and weigh roughly the same. The 390 and 401 will have forged cranks and rods. Personally I'd think an LS would be the way to go if you don't rebuild the 360. Most likely the 360 is fine though, they're tough motors and provided it's had more than three oil changes in it's lifetime the oil pump should be fine, which means the bearings are fine. These things don't roast their bearings until oil pressure approaches 2psi anyway. I'd recommend replacing the timing cover/oilpump/loving everything thing with a nickel-plated unit from bulltear. Get one coupled with their HRC gears and you'll be pushing close to 50psi oil pressure at a hot idle with 15w-40 Rotella in the crankcase. But like I said, an LS is the way to go. A 401 build will cost just as much if not more than a gently-used LS swap. From the LS family I'd recommend the LQ4. Think of it like an iron-block LS. Yeah it's heavier, but consider that you already have an iron-block iron-head not-quite-bigblock but definitely not a smallblock either motor installed already. The LQ4 is lighter still than the AMC360, gives more displacement, lots more power and is smaller. Edit: Oh yeah one more thing, you're loving crazy for buying an SV1. trouser chili fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jul 17, 2012 |
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Jul 17, 2012 15:45
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I just want to say that this is awesome and I fully support a 4g63 in there. Boosted to all hell, preferably. Nothing is "normal" about these cars and what better way to celebrate their oddness? Plus it presents a fun challenge and I'm sure you will find plenty of ways to get inventive with the swap. In conclusion: hell loving yes.
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Jul 17, 2012 16:11
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So how much less awful does that AMC 360 get when you rip all the smog crap off it? I imagine it's still low compression and everything but is there an improvement?
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Jul 17, 2012 16:48
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If you're a masochist, there's always another option!
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Jul 17, 2012 18:46
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:Well that's why you use the hydraulic actuators. You don't want to have to operate your doors manually like some dirty prole do you??? That and the 90 pounds that each door weighs. Car and Driver posted:Entry is a bit of a hardship with the high, wide sills to cross, and the hardware to open the doors is rather complicated. A hydraulic pump groans into activity at the touch of a switch and powers a pair of convertible-top rams, one to boost each door open. Solenoid-activated unlatching is automatic. If you leave the lights on and run the battery down, you'll have to connect jumper cables to a socket in the right front fender well. But if you're inside trying to get out when some phase of the system fails, there is a manual latch release and a removable pivot pin connecting the hydraulic ram to the door. That allows you to lift the 90-pound wing and squeeze out through whatever crack you can make between it and the body. It feels a lot like climbing out a manhole while a semi-trailer is parked on the cover. Full article: "Chevrolet Corvette Stingray vs. Bricklin SV-1"
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Jul 17, 2012 18:47
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MiniFoo posted:If you're a masochist, there's always another option! Let's see him do it on a reasonable budget. I assume the 4G63 still isn't rare or expensive. Wonder what you could get if you traded off the 360.
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Jul 17, 2012 19:06
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Well, I did explicitly say "masochist" for a reason. 
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Jul 17, 2012 19:18
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You could roll with the Bricklin and do something Subaru under the hood. Or Yugo.
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Jul 17, 2012 19:22
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or Fiat.
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Jul 17, 2012 19:26
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joat mon posted:or Fiat. If you're going to take one thing out of an X-1/9, why in God's green earth would you choose the powertrain?
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Jul 17, 2012 20:24
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MiniFoo posted:If you're a masochist, there's always another option! Funny you mention that. My friend is about to swap an LS6 into his '93 RX-7 and I was thinking of making an offer for his 13B. Then I thought about it and I think I have enough on my plate as is.  I'm still thinking about it though... The biggest issue I'm seeing with a high horsepower turbo engine right now is where to put the intercooler. I'll be taking a ton of pictures soon when I get the car, but the cooling situation is not great with the radiator behind the nose cone getting no actual ventilation as is. The '74 SV-1 had serious overheating issues, another of its many charms, so for '75 they designed a cooling duct that bolts to the bottom of the radiator support bracket and forces air from under the car up in an attempt to cool things down. I'm going to buy one of these NOS ducts, which costs $250, but seems like an extremely important part. You'll understand why when I take pictures of the radiator as is and you can see how terribly engineered it is. The NOS duct looks like this:  Trying to fit an intercooler in or around the front of the engine bay and then running 30lbs of boost might cause some serious cooling issues. I'll most likely be better off going with air to water, but I don't think that is ideal for daily or long distance driving.
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Jul 17, 2012 20:50
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:So how much less awful does that AMC 360 get when you rip all the smog crap off it? I imagine it's still low compression and everything but is there an improvement? Even the somewhat unloved 304 can be made to sing. The 360 isn't bad at all. As long as it's oiling well, rip off the smog pump (if equipped), plug the EGR, replace the 80-lb cast-iron intake manifold with your choice of Edelbrock aluminum units topped off with a 1406 carb and replace the exhaust manifolds with some shorties. Also replace whatever dist is stabbed in it with an aftermarket HEI. Wanna get wilder? Cams, high-comp pistons, aluminum heads, blowers, even MPFI is available.
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Jul 17, 2012 20:52
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BoostCreep posted:Funny you mention that. My friend is about to swap an LS6 into his '93 RX-7 and I was thinking of making an offer for his 13B. Then I thought about it and I think I have enough on my plate as is. Willing to change or modify the hood? Getting air into the coolers is one thing, but giving it somewhere to go afterward goes a long way toward improving cooling efficiency.
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Jul 17, 2012 21:27
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Jebus, is it really 80 lbs.? I mean, I'm sure there's a fair amount of metal but 80 lbs...eesh. I'd be most interested in what happens with the bolt-ons before you start opening the engine. I'd imagine the intake and ignition alone are worth quite a bit.
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Jul 17, 2012 21:29
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jamal posted:Willing to change or modify the hood? Getting air into the coolers is one thing, but giving it somewhere to go afterward goes a long way toward improving cooling efficiency. That is a good idea. I don't want to modify the current hood, but I would be ok with cutting vents into a fiberglass hood. There's a company owned and operated by one of the original engineers of the car that makes fiberglass body panels for the entire car. The hood costs $650 though, so I'll put that on the back burner until I see the condition of the rest of the car. Replacement body panel costs: http://www.bricklinpartsva.com/currentpartsinventory/inventory/bodypanels.htm
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Jul 17, 2012 21:37
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Here is a great story written by the manufacturing engineering manager for the Bricklin, Terry Tanner. He now owns Bricklin Parts in Virginia, which is pretty much the only company left that specializes in these cars. This story is his brief take on the how and why of the Bricklin SV-1, especially how and why it was destined to fail from the beginning. It's really a great read if you have a couple minutes. http://www.bricklinpartsva.com/technicaldocuments/library/2010_The_Bricklin_Story_Article.pdf Also, as it turns out, my Bricklin will not be the first turbo SV-1. In fact there have been at least 6 since 1976. Another cool article by Tanner: http://www.bricklinpartsva.com/technicaldocuments/library/1979_Turbo_Power_Article.pdf That article also has one of the coolest TURBO logos I've ever seen, and I'll be turning this into a sticker for my car once it's done. You know, so it stands out from all the other Bricklins out on the road. 
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Jul 17, 2012 23:08
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trouser chili posted:Even the somewhat unloved 304 can be made to sing. The 360 isn't bad at all. As long as it's oiling well, rip off the smog pump (if equipped), plug the EGR, replace the 80-lb cast-iron intake manifold with your choice of Edelbrock aluminum units topped off with a 1406 carb and replace the exhaust manifolds with some shorties. Also replace whatever dist is stabbed in it with an aftermarket HEI. Wanna get wilder? Cams, high-comp pistons, aluminum heads, blowers, even MPFI is available. Something along these lines seems reasonable. I had a 360 in my old Jeep Scrambler and that thing would _move_. You've already got most of the supporting components, put a built AMC V8 in there. It will still be a project in itself and leave you to fix the  acrylic-bonded body.By the way, I'll echo the "awesome project" sentiment.
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Jul 17, 2012 23:10
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I think that TURBO logo is from old Saab 99's. Also this project rocks.
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Jul 17, 2012 23:30
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BoostCreep posted:That article also has one of the coolest TURBO logos I've ever seen, and I'll be turning this into a sticker for my car once it's done. You know, so it stands out from all the other Bricklins out on the road.  Hard to find nowadays, though.
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Jul 17, 2012 23:34
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InitialDave posted:That's from an old Saab 99, don't tit around with making stickers, get yourself the proper badges. Ahh, great to know. Thanks!
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Jul 17, 2012 23:41
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IOwnCalculus posted:BFG actually still makes them, they've been the de facto tire of choice for a lot of muscle cars for a long time now. Yeah, but they make them for the look/nostalgia. Back then, it was something to advertise as making your product better.
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Jul 17, 2012 23:43
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This is not something I expected to see! I am going to put in my two currency sub-units and suggest that you stay with the 360, or at least another AMC V8. Are you planning on sticking with the slushbox (which I assume is as terrible as most 70s autos) or putting a manual in? I don't know if that's even possible with these cars, though, given that I know very little about them. Still, best of luck with this amazing rarity!
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Jul 17, 2012 23:52
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Red_October_7000 posted:Are you planning on sticking with the slushbox (which I assume is as terrible as most 70s autos) or putting a manual in? I don't know if that's even possible with these cars, though, given that I know very little about them. Still, best of luck with this amazing rarity! Apparently there was a factory manual option in '74 but I'm sure the parts now are unobtainium.
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Jul 18, 2012 00:12
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A Youtube search for AMC 360 yields mostly Jeep related videos. I have to say there's nothing quite as disturbing as seeing a Wrangler really haul rear end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKmWTLcn3Uw
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Jul 18, 2012 00:21
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:A Youtube search for AMC 360 yields mostly Jeep related videos. I have to say there's nothing quite as disturbing as seeing a Wrangler really haul rear end Jesus. That's fantastic. There's a few other gems in the related videos, too.
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Jul 18, 2012 00:36
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:A Youtube search for AMC 360 yields mostly Jeep related videos. I have to say there's nothing quite as disturbing as seeing a Wrangler really haul rear end This is amazing. I never even considered how awesome a v8 wrangler would be. With the short wheelbase and tall suspension that sucker must get squirrely.
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Jul 18, 2012 03:55
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lazer_chicken posted:This is amazing. I never even considered how awesome a v8 wrangler would be. With the short wheelbase and tall suspension that sucker must get squirrely. How brave would you have to be to take a Wrangler up to 100? Pretty fucken brave I'd wager, all it would take is a twitch at that speed and you're end over end. I also like that the Wrangler's aerodynamics are so poo poo that you can see how much more the engine struggles to get from 60-100 than it did from 0-60.
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Jul 18, 2012 04:40
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OP, if you abandon this thread it will be known as the biggest AI blue ball in recent history. Also the reverse is true if you complete this. Please do a turbo. Hope this turns out awesome.
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Jul 18, 2012 04:46
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Preoptopus posted:OP, if you abandon this thread it will be known as the biggest AI blue ball in recent history. Also the reverse is true if you complete this. Please do a turbo. No pressure or anything. What other blue ball projects are there? I guess Sock's rust endeavors come to mind, but I can't really blame him for that. So I just arranged my pickup for the car. Saturday morning I'm borrowing a Grand Wagoneer from my cousin and renting a trailer from U-Haul to get the car. Fitting, I thought, having an AMC 360 powered vehicle towing the SV-1 to its new home. I would have used my '01 Cherokee, but U-Haul won't rent trailers to Cherokees even though they will rent them to Grand Cherokees with the same engine and nearly same size and weight. Keep it classy U-Haul!
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Jul 18, 2012 06:03
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 I will be watching this for sure! I have never seen one in the flesh, nor will I ever aside from a museum; let me live through you!BoostCreep posted:So I just arranged my pickup for the car. Saturday morning I'm borrowing a Grand Wagoneer from my cousin and renting a trailer from U-Haul to get the car. Fitting, I thought, having an AMC 360 powered vehicle towing the SV-1 to its new home. I would have used my '01 Cherokee, but U-Haul won't rent trailers to Cherokees even though they will rent them to Grand Cherokees with the same engine and nearly same size and weight. Keep it classy U-Haul! Fancy this comes full circle - I was towing a 2nd gen Talon with a hopped up 4G63 on a u-haul trailer with my Grand Cherokee that has a 360 in it. As an aside, I have herd the magnum blocks share the same bell housing bolt pattern as the LA 360s. Perhaps you could do some kind of magnum / LA 360 swap with an NV3500 / 4500 behind it. You can snag the 2WD transmissions from Dakotas of the late 90's vintage.
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Jul 18, 2012 06:33
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Detroit Q. Spider posted:A Youtube search for AMC 360 yields mostly Jeep related videos. I have to say there's nothing quite as disturbing as seeing a Wrangler really haul rear end Oh cool, he can go E mph in the Jeep
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Jul 18, 2012 06:42
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BoostCreep posted:No pressure or anything. What other blue ball projects are there? I guess Sock's rust endeavors come to mind, but I can't really blame him for that. I don't understand U-Haul's hosed up decision making on what they'll allow to pull one of their trailers. Anyway, this project is goddamn awesome and I wish you all the best.
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Jul 18, 2012 14:47
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:I don't understand U-Haul's hosed up decision making on what they'll allow to pull one of their trailers. The last time I rented a U-Haul trailer I had to put some serious work into getting them to issue it with a license plate.
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Jul 18, 2012 15:24
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:I don't understand U-Haul's hosed up decision making on what they'll allow to pull one of their trailers. Uhaul is owned by an insurance company so I'm guessing that they saw a regular Cherokee as too light or something. If the trailer plus the car your towing weighs over what their computer will allow they wont rent to you. Used to work there and it was hilarious what people would try to tow with cars/hitches which were not rated for it. My personal favorite was the guy with out a hitch trying to tie a trailer onto his Astro's bumper with a rope.
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Jul 18, 2012 16:29
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Preoptopus posted:it was hilarious what people would try to tow with cars/hitches which were not rated for it. It's been posted before I'm sure, but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPnwi0nb2Q Although I gather this may have been an viral ad of some kind.
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Jul 18, 2012 16:55
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Preoptopus posted:Uhaul is owned by an insurance company so I'm guessing that they saw a regular Cherokee as too light or something. If the trailer plus the car your towing weighs over what their computer will allow they wont rent to you. Used to work there and it was hilarious what people would try to tow with cars/hitches which were not rated for it. My personal favorite was the guy with out a hitch trying to tie a trailer onto his Astro's bumper with a rope. I showed up with a 2000-ish F150 with a worn out V6. Slapped the auto-transport on the BUMPER hitch and towed a rusty AE86 on top of it. I don't know how they let me swing that.
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Jul 18, 2012 17:14
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VikingSkull posted:I also love that the tires advertise what they are. RADIAL T/A Youre aware whitewall BFG Radial T/As are THE ONLY TIRE(tm) to put on a 60's/70s north american produced penismobile/sportscar, right? I roll them every day just so everyone knows MY tires have radial belts. Theyre soft so they grip well, and have a speed rating of 120 or so, so theyre ok for a street performance tire on an old machine. Edit:do not do 120 on BFG TAs from 1977. This car resto is going to be epic, i never even heard of a bricklin before, i may have seen it but thought it was a Delorean. Missing the one window reminds me of the American Dad episode trying to find the last driver window for the Delorean. I hope you end up in an epic race Bricklin vs Bricklin to the last parts cache on earth. Raw_Beef fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 17:45
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Totally did not expect an SV-1 from the thread title. Color me impressed. I may have missed it, but why are you not considering keeping an AMC 360 or swapping in a 401?
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Jul 18, 2012 19:34
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I think he likes 4G63s, and of course, it makes it MORE AI.
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Jul 18, 2012 19:38
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