MSF: Stare at cones and ride over them. Questions and concerns.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Cycle Asylum > MSF: Stare at cones and ride over them. Questions and concerns.

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

I say buy a lovely little <250 bike for her to drop as much as she wants, but I think that perhaps some people aren't meant for motorcycles.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2012 16:28

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 20:03

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Looking at my tires the other day after a spirited joyride I could see that while my chicken strips were right up to the edge of the tire on the left side, there's like a centimeter of unused rubber on the right. So obviously I'm more comfortable leaning to the left, though had you asked me before I saw that I would have figured I was more comfortable on right hand turns. All things considered I guess it doesn't matter much though.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2012 18:54

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Loosen it up or get a better helmet. That shouldn't be happening.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2012 23:03

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Sagebrush posted:

Actually that's something I'm kind of confused about too. From my understanding a highside occurs when the wheels go out of line with the bike's motion, and then the wheels suddenly start gripping the road again, and the wheels suddenly "pushing" the bike in a vector the bike isn't currently traveling are what throws the whole bike out of balance. This most often happens when you're making a tight turn and accelerating out too hard while leaned over, and the combination of the cornering forces and drive forces overwhelm the tire and it breaks loose and spins up. The rider panics and chops the throttle, the decreased drive force allows the tire to slow until it grips again, but now it's off-angle and away you go. Right?

But having experienced some unpleasant squirmyness myself while braking in a turn (stupid, I was really new), I think that you could theoretically get a highside if you came into a turn and locked the rear wheel instead of spinning it up, then re-engaged it while you were off center. Same fundamental dynamic problem, different way of starting it. So, while you shouldn't really be braking hard in a turn in the first place, I would think that in that situation yes you should keep the wheel locked until you're upright. Cause if you let off while you're at that angle, you'll still highside. Right?

However, locking the rear while you're going straight is no big deal, and you can stop quicker if you modulate the brake than if you just skid, so in that case you *should* let off and re-engage it more carefully. But only when you're going straight. Also right?

Like, I think I get the gist of this but it's something that I've always been a little shaky on.

e: nsap makes a succinct rule. do I have the general sense of the dynamics right or am I talking out my rear end again?

Sounds right to me.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2013 05:59

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Halo_4am posted:

Just wrapped up Total Control's ARC1 today. I would recommend it highly to everybody except maybe those with coached track experience. 12 riders with 2-40 years experience in this class today riding anything from Harley baggers to a Ducati 1200. The only thing everybody had in common is we all looked like poo poo at the start of the day, and were smoothly navigating tight corners by the end of the day with minimal bike lean.

Taking this opens you up to skills days and the annual track outing as well. Very worth the money, and I am very happy I did this instead of the MSF's ERC.

Looks like I'm gonna have to watch twist of the wrist again, but I have been wondering this. I've noticed my chicken strips have gotten wider between this season and last, (from like non-existant to about 3/4 of an inch) and one reason I can think of for that is I've been focusing on BP for aggressive turns. This is a good thing right? Sometimes I feel like a goon getting some aggressive BP going and then barely leaning the bike because the turn wasn't as bad as I thought or I wasn't coming in as fast as I could have.

Kind of a silly question I know.

# ¿ May 6, 2013 05:25

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

I'll go one further and say if you've been riding for a while and can't pass the skills test you should have the bike taken away from you. It is ludicrously easy.

# ¿ May 22, 2013 15:31

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Doo-rag for back of the neck protection.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2013 17:35

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Captain Crunk posted:

I took the Team Oregon BRT and failed the riding portion. Passed written with 100% though!

Our test consists of 5 events: cone weave, emergency swerve, emergency brake, 90 degree turn, and sweeping curve.

I totally rocked the cone weave and emergency swerve, didn't get a single point or have to re-do those parts; also did well in the sweeping curve, but gained a couple points there.

I screwed up the emergency stop by stopping too soon. We had to stop when our front tire went past a cone, I was having trouble seeing the cone/keeping my head up at the same time. My form was really good, though, always using both brakes and downshifting like they wanted. I got two tries and broke too early on both. 10 points.

I also made a mistake on the 90 degree right turn, it was giving me trouble and I wanted a bit more practice. Rode over the line, 10 more points.

So with a total of about 23 points I failed. <20 or equal(?) is passing.

I was so bummed. It was hard to even stay in the class and talk the instructor at the end to figure out what I did wrong. I swear I was riding as good or better than my peers, and I'm not a nervous test taker. All I could conclude was that I suck somehow more so than a large amount of other people.

I called the next day to schedule a re-take. The nearest time was 3 weeks out. THREE WEEKS. I asked if I could take it sooner somewhere else (I swear I would drive 2 hours to take this test a couple weeks earlier), but was told that it was all they had.

It was really hard to deal with this failure, especially when 90%+ people pass it on their first run. Everyone I talked to said "Passed, no problem". If nothing else, this has been a hell of a journey. I've never dealt with failure like this before. I would sometimes think that maybe I'm just "One of those people who doesn't belong on a bike". I was left with three weeks to 'reflect' on failing.

By the end of week 2 I had regained my confidence and I'm ready to test again this Saturday. It's still been 3 weeks since I've last ridden. If I fail again I'll have to choke up another $180 to take the BRT again. Also another 2 or 3 weeks. I just want to ride so badly, it seems to be all I think about anymore!

Not going to give up, I'm too stubborn for that.

Can't you ride on your permit? I rode for about a month and a half before I took the BRC and passed the riding test. You have all the benefit of taking the class, you might as well practice on the road.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2013 07:00

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

In my MSF course one older guy went left both times on the emergency swerve, when he was supposed to go right

I had a guy who blew the box so hard the box would have had to been three times as wide to accomodate his u-turn. Maybe even wider, I'm not exaggerating; he just kinda made not even a 90* turn and just wandered off to nowhere. Somehow he passed. I was actually kinda pissed, how the hell is he gonna turn his huge Harley he was always talking about if he couldn't do it on a little 125?

# ¿ Jun 25, 2013 18:22

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Skreemer posted:

As an MSF instructor I could give a poo poo less if you do the double u-turn area correctly or not, just don't drop the bike in there. It's a nice to have skill but not a "life saving" skill. Screw up the swerve, the breaking or the cornering, I'll add points like crazy. The box, meh whatever. (Though it is drat funny watching someone make a 200 point turn in a parking lot.)

The scoring on the box is pretty easy, put your foot down once, it's 3 points, twice it's 5 points. (dab foot twice you get 5 points total). Same for going outside the lines. Cross once 3 points, twice 5 points. Here's the rub. The maximum number of points I can give you is 8 for that part of the test. Go out side the lines 4 times and paddle your way around? It's 8 points.

Where you get hit on points is the rest of the exercises.
On the swerve maximum points is 15.
On the breaking maximum points is 15.
On the cornering maximum points is 15.

Basically you can flub the box completely and still do fine. I've actually had one person just ride through the area and do the swerve.

I see what you're saying, but this guy's self-admitted achilles heel was slow turns from a stop. He couldn't make a right hand turn without going wide into oncoming traffic which is why his riding buddies convinced him he might want to do the MSF. I agree, most people it doesn't matter, but this guy's total inability to control the bike at slow speed was nuts, it was like he had an inner ear infection or something.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2013 04:03

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

DJCobol posted:

He's already dead.

They loved too stupidly.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2013 17:52

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Abe Froman posted:

After passing my MSF last July, I finally ventured out on the freeway today. I wasn't bothered by the speed, but man, the wind on a naked bike, it felt like I was going to fly off, especially when I turned my head and the wind caught my helmet. Hope it gets better the more I do it.

You'll get used to it. Also, it'll teach you real fast what a good fitting helmet feels like, as a good fitting helm will still pull your head to the side, whereas a bad fitting one will do that as well as slide around a bit.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2013 20:58

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Halo_4am posted:

It will. Mostly because you're used to losing traction and actively trying not to fall down. That's helpful on the street because the occasional gravel patch or oil slick can get scary. Which causes the rider to think 'oh god I am going down', which is proceeded by them falling over because they didn't even try to work themselves out of the situation.

Some good dirt experience where it's expected you will be falling down, and learning how to handle that is beneficial to every rider.

Agreed. After playing in the dirt losing a little traction because of gravel seems pretty ho-hum. The main difference is as you, petercodeine said, cars actively trying to murder you, which takes a different strategy than dodging trees, as you don't do little things to make sure the trees see you while preparing for the inevitability that they don't and jump out in front of you anyway. Also riding style will be different (like tucking and leaning into a turn on a sportbike vs getting on top and leg out on a dirtbike) and you'll want to learn about counter steering if nobody's ever explicitly explained it to you.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2013 05:14

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

Eh, you'd be surprised how quickly you adapt once you get on the road. While the BRC teaches you the very basics and gives you the knowledge to not make some of the more avoidable beginner mistakes, actually going on the road for two hours will teach you a lot more than days of parking lot drills. So go out there and ride on roads you're familiar with, during low traffic hours if you're really worried and go have some fun.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2013 07:14

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 20:03

Covert Ops Wizard: Dec 27, 2006

The_Maz posted:

You're probably right, I think most of that hesitance comes from the particular flavor of insane driver that characterizes the DC area. Planning on doing some morning rides on the weekends when things are calmer since I'm inside the beltway. At least there's still plenty of side roads and such to play around on. Still really excited about getting out there once I have my bike sorted out.

Good stuff. IMO target fixation will be your #1 enemy on twisty back roads, and idiot drivers in the city. You'll learn to anticipate them but it takes some experience. With target fixation, don't be afraid if you see that big box truck about to hit the turn at the same time you are coming the other way or if you come up to a blind turn to slow down a bunch, it can be very disconcerting early on to have oncoming traffic or a unexpected tightening of the turn, which could cause you too go wide and off. Slow in, and smooth acceleration through and out.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2013 05:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Cycle Asylum > MSF: Stare at cones and ride over them. Questions and concerns.