MSF: Stare at cones and ride over them. Questions and concerns.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Cycle Asylum > MSF: Stare at cones and ride over them. Questions and concerns.

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

I'm not really a bicyclist, but I recall it being quite a bit different dynamically speaking than riding a motorcycle. Countersteering and throttle control and brake and clutch the weight and all that. That's the tricky stuff you need to get familiar with when riding a motorcycle, and you're not gonna get much, if any, of that with a bicycle. I'd be skeptical of the usefulness of practicing on a bicycle.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2012 01:22

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 14, 2024 09:15

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Safety Dance posted:

All of these are important to consider while riding a bicycle. They turn the same, and you can lock up the rear and highside the same. ATGATT is a little tricky, however.

I'm aware that the mechanical principles are the same on a bicycle, but I don't remember ever pedaling a bike and being able to notice the effect of countersteering that you feel in motorcycles. Not to mention the big effect that throttle and brake have on the steering of the bike.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2012 13:37

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Guinness posted:

You won't get that feeling if you're just noodling around in a parking lot on a bicycle. Just like on a motorcycle, those effects don't really come into play until you're above 12-15mph, and they aren't as pronounced on a bicycle until even higher speeds. You definitely get a very similar feeling with regards to countersteering and braking affecting handling once you're doing above 20-25mph on a bicycle. Riding a good road bike on some winding downhill roads at 35mph is way more scary/thrilling than riding the same roads on a motorcycle at 55mph. And it's a loving blast on a motorcycle, so extrapolate from there.

You'll never get the throttle/brake effect on steering, though, and I think this is one that catches a lot of newbies off guard and causes them to drop bikes or blow turns. Not to mention clutch control.

Covert Ops Wizard posted:

I say buy a lovely little <250 bike for her to drop as much as she wants,

Which is why I think this is a more useful idea.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2012 03:17

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Abe Froman posted:

Stay within your limits. Riding is supposed to be fun,

Yeah. If it's not fun, don't do it. It's not like dieting and weight training. I think if you take a break and give it some time, you'll start to feel differently about it and remember that it is fun, and you'll want to do it, and you can take it slowly from there.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2012 19:41

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Halo_4am posted:

Lots of people find the difficulty/scariness of learning to ride is more than their enthusiasm for riding was. Do your thing and offer her experience on yours but don't pressure her on it or she may grow to resent the whole thing. While she's down and out about it try your best not to have motorcycles dominate every conversation for the next month or two (good luck on this).

This is good advice. If the learning experience isn't scaring you away from it, riding a bike is a lot of fun. Don't push it and just let her take it easy and remember the fun of it. The appeal will come back.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2012 19:14

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Z3n posted:

On the newbie mechanic thing, in my experience, newbie or experienced rider, male or female, doesn't matter. What does matter is that they want to learn how their bike works. We've got a number of people on here who started with no mechanical experience and are now doing their own rebuilds, and there's enough solid mechanics on here that someone will basically never get shoddy information. One of the reasons I love this site.

I think this is a great attitude to encourage, but as a mechanic myself I'd like to make it clear that no one has to know how to work on their bike to ride one.

Z3n posted:

I've got about the same number of female friends that ride, but most of them work on their own bikes. One of them does maintenance for her male friends too...maybe she'll chime in As I said before, it's just about the motivation to learn.

I know a bunch of women like this too, and again, I think it's great, more power to them, but I don't want anyone out there thinking you need to do that. I worry about the ones who you never see on the bike forums or in the shop at all because they've got the impression you have to have a tool set to own a bike and they don't want to get into all that.

And honestly, unless you're genuinely mechanically inclined, I wouldn't advise anyone to get a project for their first bike. Riding is a big enough learning experience on its own without throwing in the whole other paradigm of learning to fix things.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2012 15:03

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

That sounds like a ridiculous bureaucratic fuckup. That's not an MSF course anymore.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2013 02:28

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Gonna go out on a limb and say you may not wanna ride with those people. Anyone with a turbo busa must be a tool, and as a Ducati owner :smug:

, when I ride my Ducati I want to ride like a tool.

# ¿ May 23, 2013 00:35

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Gixxer owners don't let learning slow them down.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2013 13:20

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Yeah I think the instructors are supposed to be more interactive than that.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2013 03:19

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

EvilSlug posted:

I've never understood how people ride those things in any degree of comfort; but they're good for teaching. I'm not a big man and it always feels like a dwarf bike when I sit on one.

As a guy who's not tall, even I don't like those bikes. Too heavy for their size, and the most boring engine ever made.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2013 00:10

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

KARMA! posted:

I really don't understand people's obsession with counter-steering. It's such a non-issue.

I'd just like to say that I got more or less accused of being a fascist who's trying to silence discussion and freedom of information on reddit when I told people not to sweat countersteering, because any discussion is more likely to confuse new riders than to help. Just so everyone knows how awful reddit is.

For the best explanation of it, you need famous motorcycle scientologist Keith Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA

# ¿ Jul 30, 2013 02:14

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Safety Dance posted:

The last time I had to emergency stop using motorcycle drums, I wound up on my rear end.

Last time I did it, I came to a fairly leisurely stop a few feet into an intersection of cross traffic.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2013 20:54

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

LifeSizePotato posted:

Which sucks because there are so many awesome old vintage pre-1950s bikes that I'd love to get,

There are? Where would you get them? How can you afford them?

Depending on bike, some 50s/60s BMWs and Triumphs had decent brakes. Full width dual leading link is what you want. If you're hardcore enough you can usually find some kinda performance/race conversions for most old things that'll improve it a lot.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2013 02:33

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Sagebrush posted:

The helmet rule I've heard a few times is that if you grab the chin bar and forcefully yank it up and down, your head should move along with it, no slipping.

I think this is not a great test because I've tried on helmets that are clearly too small for me (pinching my head in the forehead and lower rear, and chinstrap cutting into my throat) and I was still able to do that. It's pretty subjective how you interpret the ease with which you can rotate the helmet like that. You muscle it enough and it'll rotate. A better test is the amount of play you get in the cheeks when you shake your head, I think.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2013 16:00

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

He and Keith whatshisname are the best motorsports commentary team since Hunt/Walker.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 19:33

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Pompous Rhombus posted:

The place I went to didn't take any kind of deposit, so it seemed like no-shows were common.

That's crazy. You have to pay around $150 in advance here and people still don't show up. I'd always demand payment up front if I were them.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 14:23

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

Collateral Damage posted:

Wet clutch, i.e. it's bathed in oil.

The clutch in a car is typically dry and if you slip it too much you wear out the friction plates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch#Wet_.26_dry

Also multiplate clutches in bikes so there's a lot more friction surface.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 18:24

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

MoraleHazard posted:

A lot of BMWs still have dry clutches; Ducatis too, I think.

BMW only has one or two at most with the old engines now. They're switching all over to the new water cooled setup with a wet multiplate. And they generally are less easy to use than a wet clutch. The pre-EFI BMWs have a friction zone about a millimeter wide on the lever, they take some getting used to.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 03:31

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

The MSF doesn't teach you how not to run into mailboxes though. So keep that in mind.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2014 05:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 14, 2024 09:15

Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester: Oct 3, 2000

builds character posted:

Counter steering doesn't work when you're going slow.

Countersteering works at all speeds.

quote:

push the left handlebar forward to turn left.

This is countersteering. When you push the left side of the bar, you're steering to the right, and it causes the bike to lean left, so then you're going left.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2015 15:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Cycle Asylum > MSF: Stare at cones and ride over them. Questions and concerns.