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Some friends of mine took the MSF this summer. They had a pretty hard nosed instructor that opened up the class with 'friends should not take the class together because they'll not be worrying only about themselves', and 'most people have to take this class twice so put the idea of passing right out of your head'. While both are reasonable points the delivery was pretty rough, they both got a whole lot less excited to be there. Over the course of the class they both do well, but this guys comments and general poo poo attitude continued. From what I could tell there wasn't anything wrong with his instructions, he was just a bit of a prick. I was lending my bike between sessions to shake off any nerves and get additional practice on anything they had problems with. So I had a daily overview and it sounded to me like they were doing fine with everything technical. I didn't see them doing anything really wrong outside of usual newbie mistakes when they were practicing with me. They both end up passing the skills and written, but one of them was failed by the instructor because 'she looked especially nervous and uncomfortable'. Which I think can be explained by some people just getting worked up over exams, and nervous over trying new things... especially with something they can get hurt doing. My wife and I have both taken the course, and I've had several friends take it... I've never heard of that before. Some passed and some failed but it was always due to score/dumping a bike/etc, never an instructor override. I read here about instructors going out of their way to do extra work with students and that's more like what I personally experienced. I don't know what this guy's problem is, maybe he's had some people he passed end up getting hurt or killed and now feels the need to be extra tough, but it seems more likely he was just a dick. Is there any sort of appeal or complaint that can be made?
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Aug 10, 2012 05:45
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Skreemer posted:Yeah those test scores are kept by the school and possibly sent in to the DOT if they run the MSF in your state. Call the school complain, call the DOT and complain loudly and have them pull the test scores. Call the main MSF offices in Cali and complain loudly. Thanks - this is Illinois so it's state run and sponsored. It's kind of crap to complain over a free course but the 2 weekends they spent doing this were time that could have been spent casually training with me and my wife if there wasn't the goal of a license in mind. Do instructors even have the ability to override the test scores? I know they can toss people from the class, but by the time the tests are done it seems a bit late to do that. As a side note she's already scheduled to do the course again, but it would be nice to get a bike and enjoy it in the meantime, by the time she takes the class and waits the 2 weeks for the license there won't be much of the riding season left.
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Aug 10, 2012 16:03
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JollyRancher posted:I had problems getting the Eliminators into Neutral. This makes me feel much better about struggling with that! I've never met a rider who didn't struggle at least a little with consistently finding neutral when starting out. I've been at this for 6 years now and it still takes me a few tries whenever I sit on an unfamiliar bike. Don't sweat it. Pompous Rhombus posted:Ah, fair enough. I know about the hanging out in first at a stop so you can make an escape thing (I used to stop in neutral, because my first bike had a really stiff clutch that sucked to hold in for long amounts of time), guess I didn't think of immediate danger once stopped. I don't think they mean keep it in first while sitting still in traffic, it's more likely meant for everything up to your full and complete stop. By the book this is the same for manual cars. When a vehicle is in motion you should have full control of it at all times. This is always true for automatics where you can instantly switch from brake to gas at any given moment, but for manual vehicles they need to be in a gear for that to have any effect. So the instructions for a riding course make perfect sense to stress downshifting all the way down to first for coming to stops. Doing this also leaves the engine ready to help out if you need to use it to help you stop faster than expected should the guy in front of you suddenly slam their brakes for any reason. It makes sense to be in gear even when completely stopped, but if holding the clutch in at all times causes your hand to cramp up then continuing to operate a bike with muscle fatigue is more dangerous than sitting stopped in neutral imo. I'm not intending to start a 'brakes are cheaper than clutches' debate please nobody go there. I'm just giving my opinion on where those instructions are coming from.
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Aug 13, 2012 20:15
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Fixed Gear Guy posted:Maybe you should have taken the BRC2? Has anybody taken/taught the experienced course? I just got myself a whole lot of bike and was thinking of re-taking the MSF just to force myself to refresh and practice. I drill myself on the stuff from MSF/BRC1 at the start of every season anyway though so it will probably be more beneficial to take the advanced instead. My actual MSF cert is 6 years old now so it might not hurt my insurance to take and pass the advanced safety course either.
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Aug 24, 2012 05:43
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Lots of people find the difficulty/scariness of learning to ride is more than their enthusiasm for riding was. Do your thing and offer her experience on yours but don't pressure her on it or she may grow to resent the whole thing. While she's down and out about it try your best not to have motorcycles dominate every conversation for the next month or two (good luck on this).
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Sep 17, 2012 16:12
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Most people say that about the experienced msf course. Those same people say the advanced riding clinic from total control is much better. That's the one I'll be taking this year. No insurance perk... but I will probably actually learn something.
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Feb 18, 2013 14:53
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Snowdens Secret posted:I'm not sure if it was discussed already in this thread (I know it's been done in other ones) but the ARC is basically just the BRC on your own bike. It's ok as a refresher but I don't know anyone who came out of it feeling like it was worthwhile. Just wrapped up Total Control's ARC1 today. I would recommend it highly to everybody except maybe those with coached track experience. 12 riders with 2-40 years experience in this class today riding anything from Harley baggers to a Ducati 1200. The only thing everybody had in common is we all looked like poo poo at the start of the day, and were smoothly navigating tight corners by the end of the day with minimal bike lean. Taking this opens you up to skills days and the annual track outing as well. Very worth the money, and I am very happy I did this instead of the MSF's ERC.
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May 6, 2013 04:07
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Covert Ops Wizard posted:Looks like I'm gonna have to watch twist of the wrist again, but I have been wondering this. I've noticed my chicken strips have gotten wider between this season and last, (from like non-existant to about 3/4 of an inch) and one reason I can think of for that is I've been focusing on BP for aggressive turns. This is a good thing right? Sometimes I feel like a goon getting some aggressive BP going and then barely leaning the bike because the turn wasn't as bad as I thought or I wasn't coming in as fast as I could have. Coming out of a class that was all body position all the time I will say yeah absolutely. I will be looking like an absolute tard for the next few weeks at least as I am drilling myself on just about every turn. Do I feel silly looking like I am about to be dragging a knee taking a 20mph turn into a subdivision? Yeah, but the best way to perfect a technique is practice practice practice. I will say that this course is of more use to those that like big baggers with floorboards and 30 degree lean angles. My buddy took it with me today and had such a bike and before we got into body position he was scraping the poo poo out of those boards. Me and others on standard and sport position bikes were running the same course with the same (lack of) body position with no scraping at all because the bikes have much more lean. Once we got into the position techniques he was making the same turns at a faster pace without a trail of sparks behind him. Sport bikes can worry about chicken strips and the relation to the bike's very available lean angle. Big baggers don't worry about them because it's impossible to get them with a bike that doesn't have the angle to create them. The only way to properly handle a bike like that aggressively is to use your body to create a bigger lean. Just watch any of the vids of the guys that run Goldwings through Deal's Gap. They're not limited by the bike's available lean one bit.
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May 6, 2013 05:53
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Just did that. I wore all mesh gear on a 70 degree day and it was still hot as balls sitting parked in line in a parking lot all day. They provide snacks, a lunch hour, and plenty of water/powerade, but you may want to bring your own just the same. They do have knee pucks on hand if you get comfortable enough to start dragging knees. Nobody in my class worked up to that point, but the potential was clearly there. It's probably about 4-5 hours total of range time. The classroom experience was just as, if not more valuable to me because I haven't read any advanced riding material previously. Taking the course opens you up to skills days they run regularly. So you can always get more range time after you take the class. They also have annual track days in the Fall that you can take after the TCARC1. I wrote a very small review of my experience here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3497554&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=10#post415160239 :edit: It's a lot of starting and stopping without much in the way of RPMs. You may want to be sure your battery is in good shape or you might need a jump. Halo_4am fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 17:56
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I bet you'll be fine. Mine was some 2-year-old Batteries Plus POS that was only putting out 11v (now replaced). It gave me a hard start mid-day and then I just sat in the lines sitting in neutral and holding the throttle open to 4-5k to keep it charged. I'm sure people thought I was being a douche, but that's what it took to be sure the battery had enough juice to start the bike again for the next exercise. Fortunately I have a stock exhaust so it's not like I was waking babies blocks away or anything like that.
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Jun 13, 2013 19:57
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Yeah I went to CycleGear the week before and sprung for the cheapest Bilt brand mesh overpants they had. Then I wore shorts under them. I also picked up some breathable socks for super cheap. I already had a mesh jacket and mesh gloves. Then the day before the class my ankle hulked out of the zippers on my ages old Harley boots. I had been meaning to replace them for a season or two, but happening just before a class where they were absolutely required was a real shitter. I ended up running to a local RedWing and getting these: http://www.redwingshoes.com/red-wing-shoe/971-red-wing-shoes/971-red-wing-mens-6-inch-boot-black. They're lace, they're steel toe, and they're barely sufficient ankle height or protection. But they were in stock and fit, and spending 8-10 hard hours in them on day 1 was only slightly miserable. Still in the market for some good riding boots that just look like a plain black boot. At that point these have a fine life ahead of them as a solid work boot. /Gear derail
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Jun 13, 2013 21:12
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I agree with that. We're talking about gearing up for the TCARC though - which is still in a parking lot but you spend a lot of it over 20mph, and you're pushing the bike and yourself to greater limits. The bikes are also your own and traditionally a lot heavier than the baby 250's of the BRC. As a result they actually require full riding gear to MSF's long sleeved shirt and jeans. The most they bend is for chaps. Even Kevlar jeans are not allowed unless they have armored knees.
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Jun 13, 2013 22:14
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It will. Mostly because you're used to losing traction and actively trying not to fall down. That's helpful on the street because the occasional gravel patch or oil slick can get scary. Which causes the rider to think 'oh god I am going down', which is proceeded by them falling over because they didn't even try to work themselves out of the situation. Some good dirt experience where it's expected you will be falling down, and learning how to handle that is beneficial to every rider.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:47
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