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Idran posted:Just one correction: lambda is the 11th letter, but it stands for 30 in the Greek number system, so Lambdadelta does mean 34. On the other hand, Miyo's last name is 三四 (three four), not 三十四 (thirty-four), and the Japanese for saying three is different from that for thirty just like English. Case in point: 山本五十六/Isoroku Yamamoto (whose last name is basically "fifty-six") would probably be called something like Goroku if his name is meant to be "five six". Caveat: I don't know Japanese but I can read most kanji with ease.
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Jun 11, 2014 01:54
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Jeek posted:On the other hand, Miyo's last name is 三四 (three four), not 三十四 (thirty-four), and the Japanese for saying three is different from that for thirty just like English. One means "three four" and the other means "thirty four", yeah, but they both mean "34". It's just an alternate way of expressing that. I guess it might be a mistake and his properly-written intent would've given "Gammadelta" instead, but that seems such a simple thing to double-check that it might've just been trying to obscure it a little through cleverness.
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Jun 11, 2014 06:32
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Besides, Lambdadelta sounds better.
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Jun 11, 2014 18:32
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Edited in a correction on that. Should have an update sometime tomorrow.
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Jun 12, 2014 11:37
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Part Forty-Six: The One Who Came Before Originally, Ep3 was going to be an entirely different episode called Land of the Golden Witch. Ryukishi scrapped it because he decided it was too difficult, though. It was supposed to provide a few bits of information that ended up being moved back to Chiru, and would have made a couple character very different from what we got. Though it also has a few things that were originally intended for Chiru nd got moved forward. I'll talk a bit about the specifics of what got changed later on, when I can do it without spoiling anything. [IMG]http://lpix.org/1715010/image002.jpg][/IMG] Have a video, since there's a bunch of new characters here.  Hmm. This doesn't look like Rokkenjima.   Of course, that was a member of Grandfather's favorite collection. So that I didn't make a mistake and destroy its fragile beauty, I was always strictly ordered to never touch it. ...But that just made me want to touch it. It was transparent and yet so elegant that just glancing at it gave it an indescribable sense of dignity. ...I wanted to see what it felt like to touch a vase like that. However, ...just as Grandfather had said, it was something that shouldn't be touched. Because something this beautiful shouldn't be touched. It was a beauty that could only dwell in something that could break so easily.  I realized that, because of my own foolish curiosity, I had done something that couldn't be taken back. No matter how much I regretted it, no matter how much I apologized. The broken vase would not be returned to its original form... I would probably be scolded by Grandfather. Probably very harshly. Frightened, I ended up breaking into tears and sobbing... As I did, I noticed something, ...beautiful. Lightly dancing golden butterflies, were coming towards me.  Oh, it's Beatrice. That reliable Golden Witch, Beatrice had arrived. Unless you're relying on her to murder everyone you know, kid, you should probably start ru-     ...Who the hell are you and what did you do with Beatrice? She was always my ally. Whenever I was in trouble, she would always appear and help me.  : "Good day to you, princess." : "Beatrice! ...Waaaah, hic, hic...!": "Oh, my... Why are you crying so on a day so perfect for a tea party, my princess...?": "...I broke the vase that Grandfather treasured... Waah, Grandfather will get mad at me. ...I don't know what I should do... Hic...": "How troublesome. This was supposed to be a vase that the Master liked very much. ...Hohohoho, it's terrifying even for me, Beatrice, to think about what kind of punishment you'll receive." : "I hold no magic to scoop up your fallen tears, princess, but if you want magic that will make it possible for you to avoid being scolded by the Master, I might be able to do something.": "R, really...?": "If you will believe in my power, princess. The basis of magic power is the power of belief. ...Miracles will only appear before those who strongly believe." : "I, ...I believe... I believe in your power, Beatrice. So please fix this vase. Please...!": "If that is what you want, princess. ...Then leave it to me, Beatrice."When she extended her index finger, a golden butterfly softly landed there, and changed its form into her favorite cane. But even that was enough to give me a small glimpse at Beatrice's wonderful and great magic power. She pointed her cane at the broken vase, and, just like a child's lullaby, she began speaking the magic words...  Were they words, or was it a song? No, it was surely magic.  After all, can't you see? ...The pieces of the vase are obviously gathering together, and softly returning to the place where they had been displayed, ...returning to their original form. : "...Incredible...": "See? Now it's back to normal. This way, you will be able to avoid being yelled at by the Master."  : "That's not true. Returning something broken to its original form is a very, very difficult thing. With my magic, I could do no more than make it remember what it was, for the time being.": "...? But, the vase really turned back to the way it was, right...?": "That's right. But that doesn't mean that the vase avoided its fate of being broken. I did nothing but make the broken vase remember how it was before it broke for the time being. Magic power that can repair a broken fate to its original form is at a very high level that I have yet to reach."At that time, the high-pitched scream of a servant could be heard from inside the mansion.  I understood the meaning of what Beatrice had said. ...At the time that I had broken the vase, 'the vase was broken'. Beatrice had shown me that the vase had been restored, but that had been a temporary thing. It didn't mean the fate that 'the vase was broken' had changed. As a result, ...the vase had remembered its true fate, and 'had broken'. But I hadn't broken it, instead, it had been a cat which had snuck in... That's right. Beatrice hadn't said 'Let's mend the vase'. She had said she would make it so that I didn't have to be punished. The fate of the vase breaking hadn't changed, but the fact that I had broken it certainly had... Beatrice had skillfully saved me from danger with that magic...  : "...Fixing something is very hard...?": "Yes. So much that you were at a loss at what to do and started crying.": "...So it's easier to use magic to do horrible things? To break, ...to kill is very easy, ...but fixing and reviving things is very hard, as you say...": "...That's right. With magic, it is much easier to do things like breaking and killing. Therefore, weak witches lose to temptation and are intoxicated with gathering easy power to themselves, and neglect their real magic training. ...Real magic is the power to repair, to revive. To call back happiness which has disappeared, to call back love which has gotten cold. And it can call back a forgotten smile to a princess' face."Or bring back a family so you can keep murdering them indefinitely! : "Then, ...Beatrice, does that mean that since you could fix the vase, you are an incredible witch?": "My days of training are far from over. After all, I couldn't make the vase forget its fate for even an hour. If it were my teacher, who taught me magic, I'm sure that she would be able to restore the vase to its original form forever.": "If it broke and broke, she could fix it over and over again...?" : "An Endless Witch...": "That's right. ...To witches holding the power to mend something endlessly, the concept of breaking doesn't even exist. They are released from all of the sadness caused by losing things and are promised eternal bliss."Certainly, the human world is full of sadness caused by separation and loss. To escape that sadness, people pray to god, and ask for the power to withstand the sadness, believing it to be a test... In other words, a human's life is a journey, searching for a way to withstand sadness. In that case, a witch who could revive all things would be freed from all sadness in the world. ...In other words, it is eternal bliss...  : "I want to become a witch. ...I want to be happy. Beatrice, I want to become your disciple.": "...Do you have even the slightest doubt in that feeling?": "No. I also want to become a witch.": "...I understand. Then, until you get tired of it, princess, I will allow you to be my disciple. ...Will you call me Teacher?": "Yes, Teacher.": "That's a good answer. Then from now on, learn the depths of magic along with me. I am also training. Let us both learn magic the right way, and do our best to reach that blissful level.": "Yes, Teacher...!"   On top of the new little tidbit that our favorite murderous ahaha.wav spammer wasn't the first to hold the name and title, here's a little something else to contemplate. Beatrice claims to be a thousand years old. But does that flashback mansion really look like something built upwards of a thousand years ago? An Endless Witch, was it? A name that I had yearned for in the past as the highest achievement, and was now just another one of my titles. And not really even the top-tier title the other Beatrice hyped it as. Bern and Lambda aren't Endless Witches, after all. No, you can even say it's my calling card.   She shook her head lightly. If it is called the highest level, that means that there is nothing higher. An eternal dead end, the beginning of eternal boredom.  Eternal bliss means eternal boredom. ...That's the beginning of eternal torture. But let's think about this. Eternal boredom is the same as a sketchbook that doesn't run out of pages. It means you can draw whatever you want, can try to have as much fun as you want. Boredom is the worst poison that kills all witches. ...To the Great Witches who are given the title 'Lady', this is frighteningly true. It is the eternal poison that tortures them because of the eternal bliss that they have reached...  : "Now that I have earned the name of Endless Witch, I truly wish to speak with Teacher again. ...Was the result of our training really 'happiness'? And now I want to talk with her about what true 'happiness' is." ...I remember her saying something like that as though answering herself. : "*cackle*cackle*, hahhahahahahahahahaha... I see, ...I am immature, am I?! How nice, how nice. *cackle*cackle* *cackle*cackle*...!"    Little bit of trivia: Whoever was in charge of doing the sprites for the PS3 version really liked the Stakes. Lucifer and Mammon have over 300 sprites each, and most of the others aren't far behind. The only character who beats them in the first 4 episodes is Beatrice with a bit over 500, and only because she's got multiple outfits. Together the seven of them account for nearly half the sprites in the first half.  : "Be silent, you filth! Since you all devour him like starving dogs, no matter how well Beatrice-sama fixes him, he'll just break right away." : "Satan-nee broke him the most. 'Cause she doesn't know restraint." : "My apologies, Beatrice-sama. Please forgive my stupid younger sisters." : "Fix him quickly-! I'm next, I'm ne-xt!"      : """""""Iiiee!!"""""""Just from that single yell, the noisy Sisters of the Seven Stakes disappeared and hid. They just mess around, having as much fun as they want breaking him. They only come to me to clean up afterwards. ...Seriously, these furniture don't let me get bored.    : "...It will be hard for me to make it remember its original form in this state. It's better to make him remember for himself. ...Oh, well."I waved my golden pipe. And I told. I chanted. I made it remember. : "...Come, try to remember. What form did you have? ...After all, right now, all I can see is a huge lump of scrap meat. I've no idea which part is the arm and which part is the leg. If you don't remember, I won't even be able to remember your face. *cackle*cackle*cackle*!"By the power of the magic, the pitiful pieces of meat began to remember what their form had been. Which part should go with which part, and where should join with where? That's right, just like that. ...No, no, you should be a finger on the left hand. That's the right hand. That's it, good, good, *cackle*.  : "If you would just accept that I am a witch, you'll quickly awaken from this nightmare, and I'll send you to heaven. I am the king of Mount Purgatory. There's no way out of this hell without my approval."Don't lie to him, Beatrice. None of the Ushiromiyas are headed that way when this is over with.  : "Heh, ...hehehehe. You call this hell? That's just useless. Aah, it's all useless.": "The pain of death, which humans only have to taste once, has been given to you more times than I could count with all of my fingers, and yet, ...how can you keep talking like that? *cackle* That's why I don't get bored. I don't get bored of you.": "Yeah, not bored at all. Anyways, I get to pick and choose from those big boob Nee-chan's with dazzling asses in my harem. Thanks to that, I'm not bored at all."Little did Beatrice suspect when she started this game that being eviscerated by near-identical septuplets had always been Battler's greatest fantasy.  : "*cackle*cackle*, *cackle*cackle*cackle*! That's great. Otherwise I would be bored too. So, my furniture. I've fixed him, so you can play as much as you want."  : "Uffufufufu. Wonderful, isn't it Battler-ku-n? You're so popular, aren't you?": "It's hard being a popular guy. Get in line, you beasts.": "If you didn't bluff and stayed obedient, this would be much easier." : "It's alright like this. His screams are more pleasant this way." : "Alright, let's not break him easily this time. Come on, your answer?!" : "You aren't in control! So, Battler-kun. Let's continue where we left off, alright? After they locked Jessica-chan's room with the master key, how did they return the key to the corpse's pocket, which was inside the room?" : "...For example...that's it, they used a fishing line or something, and just the key went back into the room through the crack of the door..." : "Kyahhahahahahahaha!! Wro-ng!"  : "Wrong, wrong?! Right, this time me, my turn! Whe-re should I strike!" : "Me, back of the hand!": "That's me-an! Then, the back of the opposite hand!": "I'll take the tip of the nose!" : "Why, why, let me do it too, let me strike too! Waaah!!": "Levia-nee sure is slow, we've always done first one wins, right?! Then, I'll take the top of his foot!": "Waaah!! Me too, me too-! I'll take his shoulder, alright!" : "...How can you withstand that? Why haven't you realized that your false courage actually makes us more excited?": "Sorry, but...false courage and being stubborn are my specialty. No matter how you all try to speak in riddles, I definitely won't accept witches and magic...!": "Even though you can't explain anything with human tricks? Are you a moron?! Know your place!": "It's all right, we don't have to force him to accept it. Right now he wants to accept it, crying. Even now, he really wants to kneel down on the ground pitifully and beg our forgiveness!" : "Ugaah, guahgehgehgyahh...!!": "Aa-h, he's broken already! Beatrice-sama!": "...Ah, well. Since they know that I can revive him over and over, my furniture don't even hesitate to break him. How troublesome." : "So, Battler. Remember your original form again. I'll toy with you as much as I want, you see? I see, I see, it's truly pleasant to have a toy to play with for all eternity. ...I see, could this be the endless bliss witches gain at the endless level?   Click for the opening movie. For whatever reason, despite there being 4 episodes, there's only three opening videos in the files. This one sorta pulls double duty for 3 and 4, but it doesn't have too much from the latter.   Also we've got the goat butler bio now. No idea why it pops up here of all places when the goats weren't even mentioned here.  Next time: Show of hands, who on this island isn't secretly magical?
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Jun 13, 2014 12:29
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Battler. Maybe.
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Jun 13, 2014 13:44
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What are you talking about, magic doesn't exist. 
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Jun 13, 2014 18:12
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Another Episode, another opening. This one promises more immediate action than Episode 2 at least!
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Jun 14, 2014 00:19
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Insurrectionist posted:Another Episode, another opening. This one promises more immediate action than Episode 2 at least! Oh yes, although there still be some background stories before the murders, but they are at least more interesting.
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Jun 14, 2014 01:50
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The opening is great. And I found something that makes it even better. A word of warning: Watch only up to 1:30 of this video. The thank-you screen afterwards has an image that seems spoilery and makes me seriously doubt my hypothesis of Kumasawa (plus a whole bunch of characters) being Beatrice. VVVV Nanjo is a wizard in that he is the only one in the group capable of examining corpses. Jeek fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 02:05
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Pretty sure Dr. Nanjo is in fact the only character here who is not secretly a wizard.
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Jun 14, 2014 02:15
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The thank you image doesn't really have anything to do with anything, it's just an artsy picture. Unless you think Kinzo is really 20 feet tall. I wouldn't put it past Kinzo. And yesssss, episode 3 is my favorite of the first 4 episodes.
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Jun 14, 2014 03:45
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Mercury Hat posted:And yesssss, episode 3 is my favorite of the first 4 episodes. Mine, too. It's Aesop time, motherfuckers. 
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Jun 14, 2014 04:18
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I'm 95% sure this opening is only supposed to be for Episode 4 (which is why it spoils all the new characters). Episode 3 uses the second OP again.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:05
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whitehelm posted:I'm 95% sure this opening is only supposed to be for Episode 4 (which is why it spoils all the new characters). Episode 3 uses the second OP again. I just doublechecked with my own installed copy, and, yeah, this is pretty much true. Well, not a biggie--those openings're only intended to tease, and you don't really learn anything other than that those characters show up later.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:09
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Yeah, just checked it myself too. Or, rather, Ep3 uses the first OP. The second one was the one that started off with "No Dine. No Knox. No Fair. Etc." No idea why they'd switch back to that when they've got viable options from both 2 and 4.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:22
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Having just caught up with the thread (after not reading it for a year), my three theories before game 3: 1. George steals the master key from Shannon when he distracts her with the ring, then goes off to cause havoc. He also had the opportunity to meddle with Maria's envelope before the chapel murder. As far as his own death is concerned, I don't know, murder-suicide? It seems like stabbing oneself in the abdomen would be a bit easier than trying to force a stake through your head or jam it all the way through your ribcage. 2. Battler and Beatrice19 (as opposed to BeatriceWitch) are lovers in a perverted serial-murder team ("Slice up your cow tits and make me a sandwich") competing against one another to murder their family in ways that the other cannot explain (I realize that the thread says that Battler's perspective is absolute except when he's drunk, but as a reader of the LP, I don't personally know this to be the case). 3. Maria pulled a Hannibal and decided to use the gaping hole in Kanon's chest to go around trying to implicate her mother in the killing spree by climbing in and taking the corpse for a test drive while screaming "It was Rosa! It was Rosa".
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Jun 18, 2014 21:18
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Kytrarewn posted:1. George steals the master key from Shannon when he distracts her with the ring, then goes off to cause havoc. He also had the opportunity to meddle with Maria's envelope before the chapel murder. As far as his own death is concerned, I don't know, murder-suicide? It seems like stabbing oneself in the abdomen would be a bit easier than trying to force a stake through your head or jam it all the way through your ribcage. On another note, compare the speech pattern in these two images:  As Kumasawa is not a full time worker on Rokkenjima, it is plausible that she met the culprit elsewhere when he/she was young and told him/her all about Rokkenjima plus the occult stuff. Jeek fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jun 28, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 05:28
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Jeek posted:If that is the case, we still have to account for the death of Rosa, Maria, Genji and Battler, all of whom were still alive by the time George's body was discovered. We don't, though. All the subsequent deaths can be considered part of the "bad end", after Battler decided to surrender to Beatrice. They aren't actually part of the puzzle's setup and thus may or may not actually be canon.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:27
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Remember, though, that Rosa, Maria, Genji, and Battler (and Kinzo) aren't listed as dead at the end of episode 2, they are missing because they have been invited to the Golden Land  . 
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Jun 27, 2014 18:01
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Part Forty-Seven: The One Who Hates   Rudolf and Hideyoshi went out onto the deck, and took out some cigarettes. Eva had always hated the smell of cigarettes, but when she was in a bad mood, she got even more oversensitive. When they had decided to spend the time until they reached the island smoking casually, the two of them had been threatened and chased out onto the deck. Hideyoshi tried to use his lighter, but it didn't go well with all of the strong winds on the deck. Rudolf took out a Zippo with a stylish gesture, and let Hideyoshi borrow the flame.  : "When did you start smoking cigarettes, Hideyoshi nii-san?" : "Just after the war. In the beginnin', I was rollin' 'em. Then I started usin' what I was sellin'. Wahahahahahahaha."A fool's mistake, Hideyoshi. Never get high on your own supply. ...I mean, I guess that's not strictly applicable with cigs, but I'd assume the general sentiment applies. : "So you were already smoking when you met Aneki. I'll bet she's always telling you to stop.": "I never listened to her, so she's already completely given up on that. Wahaha, looks like men have got to be stubborn."Hideyoshi laughed heartily, but Rudolf chuckled. After they had been scolded by Eva, they had dejectedly ran out onto the deck together. They had almost certainly been dominated by her.  : "Is that so? To me, she looks just like the Aneki we've all known for so long.": "...That's right. She's returned to bein' Eva of the Ushiromiya family. ...But, that's different from the Eva who's with me." : "...Well, I can understand why she's grumpy. ...This family conference is going to be a pain." : "...Very true. ...That plan to threaten money out of Krauss nii-san. Even though we call it a family conference, it's really just a fight between the siblings."  Since long ago, they had felt that Krauss was taking advantage of Kinzo's loss of interest in his own wealth, and had started embezzling that wealth for his own use. When everything had been going well for the siblings, even though they had found it detestable, they had pretended not to notice, ...but now that they needed money, they couldn't just quietly accept that. Eva had called Rudolf and Rosa into an alliance, and they had schemed to take that money away from Krauss. : "...Rudolf-kun, both you and I are company presidents. We are responsible for the livelihood of our employees.": "Rosa is a president too. Well, as a hobby.": "That's right, sorry. ...In short, all of us are bearin' some burden.": "...Now that I have thrown the gauntlet down in front of the executive board, I gotta bring in the money, even if it means I have to kneel or even drink mud.": "Same here. ...I can't betray those employees who've trusted me and followed me for so long. ...That's why I must get some money out of Krauss nii-san, even if I have to grab him by the neck." : "Hasn't she talked about it? It was so massive.": "She won't tell me about the past even if I ask. She probably doesn't have anything she wants to remember.": "...Aneki has always been smart and to the point. Her grades were good too. Compared to that, Aniki was just average. ...Her just being there beside him should have been enough pressure, but Aneki kept boasting about it and driving Aniki into a corner.": "...That idiot... Why did she drive him into a corner with that frank hostility? That won't accomplish anythin'.": "Hahaha, seriously. ...Aneki regrets being born a woman. ...After all, she probably couldn't forgive Aniki, since it was decided that he would succeed the head just because he was a man. ...So she would always boast to Father that she was superior at every little thing."Considering that she’s still listed in the line of succession, she should have just shived him before he had Jessica. If Crusader Kings II has taught me anything, it’s that succession-related problems are pretty much always best solved by stabbing people until everything falls into place. : "Father really is an old-fashioned person. His values discriminate between men 'n women. ...Ya think that Father disliked Eva a little, since she likes to make herself conspicuous...?": "..."   ...Since you can still drink black tea without sugar, it was almost the same as saying that study was unnecessary for a woman. Those infuriating words were ones that my older brother had abused me with when I had been in despair, when I had wanted to go to college but was rejected by Father. I had protested that, as the oldest daughter in the Ushiromiya family, I needed to gain proper dignity and an education, so advancing to college was essential. But, if you sum up Father's and brother's answers, they were both the same. 'How conceited for a woman.' Since the time I was born into the Ushiromiya family, I hadn't taken that name lightly even once. And furthermore, I also hadn't ever taken Father's name, Ushiromiya Kinzo, lightly even once. It was an old family with many traditions, but in the Great Kanto Earthquake, it had lost its wealth and its business, and had sunk all at once. Then Father, with his ingenious talent, had taken control, and revived it to be even greater than it had been before. I hadn't forgotten that I was the daughter of that great Ushiromiya Kinzo even once.  ...However, in the end, Father never accepted that. To Father, a woman was only meant to support a man, and nothing further than that was permissable. I probably understood that. ...I had probably understood that since I was a young girl. ...But to truly accept that, I had to wait until I had grown up. You couldn't have said that Krauss, as my older brother by two years, tried at all to become deserving of the Ushiromiya family name, and his effort was pathetic compared to mine. Since we were young, my brother kept saying that it was natural that he'd succeed Father, just because he was born a man. ...He kept repeating that, as though it were an absolute gap between us. I couldn't stand it. Even though I always got better grades than my brother, even though while he was stuck as vice-president of his class, I became class president, ...even so, my brother was considered to be the appropriate person to succeed the Ushiromiya family just because he was a man.  But because that way of thinking existed, I wanted to overturn it. ...Innocently, I kept trying to prove that I was the most fit. ...However, eventually, I realized that all of my efforts were doomed from the beginning.  : "Don't you think that schooling for women is like sugar in black tea? Without it, there's no taste, but too much of it ruins the tea."We heard you the first time, Krauss.   : "...What do you mean by that, Nii-san?": "Just like how there are things that only men can do, there are things that only women can do, right? I think things like giving birth to children, raising them, and supporting their husband can only be done by women." : "Are you trying to say that there's no need for a woman to do things like work and study?": "I wouldn't go that far. It's tiring just talking with an unschooled woman. ...However, women who are too smart are even more tiring. I think that a woman like you, who violently asserts herself, would cause their future husband a lot of trouble.": "Are you trying to say that a woman must marry and stay in the shadow of their husband? That's none of your business!" : "It was decided that 'I (watashi)' would succeed the head from the beginning. Even so, you seem to be laboring under the illusion that you can become the head, and have just been making useless and reckless attempts to do that."Perhaps that's the real reason he's the heir. Regardless of his (lack of) other qualifications, being able to pronounce parentheticals is a pretty impressive skill. : "Reckless attempts, you say...?! Is my saying that I want to go to college really that odd?!": "Yes, it's odd. You are surely the oldest daughter of the glorious Ushiromiya family. Eventually, you will bear the family seal, and be wed to a partner who is most valuable for Father. ...However, what is asked from you is not excess learning. It is gentle feelings to care for your husband and ability in housework, and it is a humble demeanor that will support the master of your household. You are completely lacking in all of those things. In the end, is that really proper for a daughter of the Ushiromiya family?": "I have no intention of being a secluded daughter! I just want to become the best person who can help Father with his work!": "And isn't that improper for a daughter of the Ushiromiya family...? What is it with you? Even at this age, you still act like a man, you are careless with housework and cooking, and you never wear any makeup to please men. I've heard that you've even been training to learn how to brawl."  : "It isn't elegant to accept that, but in order to correct your mistake, I think that a few unpleasant words are necessary. So let me say it plainly. Women exist to serve men. And men exist to cultivate women. A woman's job is to protect a man's back, to protect their house and raise their children. Normally, they don't have to be told that to realize it. They realize it by themselves. ...But no matter how old you get, you haven't realized that about yourself. So I will clear away that misunderstanding for you before you exit this house into society. You should thank me.": "A, all of that is an insult to women...!! No, wait, ...I, I have never thought of myself as a woman, I've never depended on anyone because I'm a woman!! How am I inferior to you, Nii-san?! In grades and accomplishments, in everything, I'm better, so how can you look down on me when you don't have anything I don't, except being a man?!!": "It's about whether or not you know your place. Every day, I have been raised so that I would be prepared to be the next head. In the future, that will definitely be essential. But you are different. Even though you will marry and lose the Ushiromiya family name, you keep seeing this illusion that you don't need to see. ...What's so unsatisfying about that? Even if you were born as a man, you still probably couldn't succeed the head. What's so unsatisfying that you keep attacking me?" What's so unsatisfying, you say...? A billion things are. Grudges, hard feelings, humiliations that I'll never forget kept floating through the back of my mind. And all of them built up at the same time, coming out of my throat as a shameful moan.   Apparently Kinzo has been wearing the exact same suit and cape for...what, like 30 years now, probably? Either that or he's got a whole closet full of dozens of them.  : "...What is all this noise. God isn't the only one who values silence.": "Father.": "Father!"Our sibling fight was probably overheard. Father entered with a clearly unhappy face. : "Krauss. Are you fighting with your siblings again? Why don't you have the dignity to lead your brothers and sisters? How shameful! I'm shocked to hear that from my eldest son!"In a flash, he struck Krauss's face. ...I prepared myself to be struck in the same way, but I wasn't hit. : "M, ...my apologies, Father." : "Yes. ...I will continue to strive so that I can become a person worthy to succeed you, Father..."It was as if those words were directed at me. Even when he was being yelled at by Father, he was still bragging to me about how he was special, ...about how he was the successor. I just couldn't stand it, and finally spoke what was on my mind. Even though I realized that this was improper for a person of the Ushiromiya family. : "Father...!! Please tell me, how am I inferior?!! Until today I've tried so hard, studied so hard to become a person who would not shame Father's name...! Please, tell me, in what way am I inferior...?! How can I improve myself so that Father will accept me...!!" : “What good are you as a woman! Do you realize that you are a daughter of the Ushiromiya family!! And yet, you only want to learn things so that you can act like a man! Your duty is not to act like Krauss!! Do you even understand your own duty?!!": "A, as a person of the Ushiromiya family, I won't embarrass Father's na-"Smacking kids upside the head: a time-honored Ushiromiya tradition. : "That's it, right there you're already wrong!! Your duty is to marry out of the family, and bring me a man who is profitable to me! And then devote yourself to your husband, give birth to children and increase in number! Be a good wife who brings praise to your husband's family!! : “Are you saying that you won't even listen to what I say, even though you're my daughter!!! Get out!! You're disinherited!! I won't let you be called Ushiromiya!! Disinherited disinherited!! Uu-, *cough*cough*!!" : "Father, hang in there. Please calm down. ...Genji-san, could you bring some water?" : "...Yes. Immediately.": "Eva, leave this place. He's not in his right mind. I will calm him down.": "*cough*, *cough*cough*!!Disinherited, if you won't listen to me, you're disinherited!! *cough**cough*, uu-, *cough**cough*!!"Father was choking pretty bad, and my brother patted his back. ...As if that were naturally his duty. It was so vexing for me then to let him monopolize that duty. If I carelessly approached Father now, I would probably be hit again. ...However, I fearlessly tried to approach Father's back. Genji blocked me...   : "*cough*cough*!! Why are my children so incompetent?! Krauss is lacking in dignity, Eva is always a stubborn tomboy!! I have no son who's like a man, and not even a daughter who's like a woman! Where did I go wrong raising them?! Why Genji, when and where did I go wrong?!!": "...Master hasn't done anything wrong. Krauss-sama has grown into a sturdy son, and Eva-sama into a lovely daughter. You haven't made any mistakes...": "How can you say that?!! What's so lovely about her?!! Far from a lady, she's always acting like a man!! *cough*cough*cough*!! Disinherited, disinherite-d!! *cough*cough*!!": "Father, that's just what I'm always telling Eva. Eva has promised that she would have a change of heart and act like a lady. Couldn't you postpone that for just a little longer?": "Who's a lady?!! *cough*cough*!! Disinherited disinherited..., *cough*cough, uu-, *cough*cough*!"Go quickly and leave this place to me. Krauss gave me a look telling me that...  Of course, I had never learned how to be a lady. ...Everything I had learned was because I'd hoped that I could help Father someday. ...Wait, was that really the case? Didn't I always hold a growing sense of rivalry with my brother, with whom I'd had a bad relationship since I was a young girl, and want to take advantage of his weaknesses and steal his position as successor to the head? Every time, my brother told me that men should be manly and women should be womanly. I was tormented by this unreasonable discrimination because of one's sex, something one was born with and couldn't do anything about. I had resisted, had endeavored to study until today so that I could prove that I wasn't inferior, even though I was a woman. ...In that case, wasn't the basis of my love of learning just a boring complex against my brother? Father had expected me to be a lady with whom he could go out in public and not be embarrassed. ...Had I betrayed that expectation and earned grades to threaten my brother just to clear away that pent up resentment...?   (Click to watch Eva argue with her imaginary friend)  : "...You..."The one who came up to me, whispering, ...was the me of my days as a young girl, who had been born inside my heart on the day that I swore that. Her imaginary friend who is also her. That’s uh. Totally normal and sane, right? ...That's right. 'She' was my only ally. When things got difficult, when I felt broken, she would always quietly appear and become my ally. When I stumbled over difficulties, and was greatly troubled, she would always appear and support me. As I had grown and forgotten my time as a girl, I'd also begun to forget my conversations with 'her'...  : "I, Ushiromiya Eva, will definitely become the head of the Ushiromiya family. And I'll triumph over that irritating, arrogant Krauss. ...On that day, we promised to do our best together to achieve that.": "...That's right, we promised. ...On that day, that I would become the successor to the head."On that day, when I had been overcome with sadness, wondering why I was even alive, ...you appeared inside me, and lent me your strength.  In those days, I had really believed that my life had no purpose other than to be looked down upon by my brother. ...It's painful just remembering those days. The fate that went into my heart and tore a hole in me... 'She' had taught me how to sew up that wound... I had changed my anger into effort and improved myself, ...to become a person more worthy to be head than Krauss was, and to triumph over him by making Father accept me. The perfect revenge. I knew more or less that a woman couldn't succeed the head. But maybe, if I tried to become so superior that I could overturn that, ...then surely even Father would select me to be his successor. If that happened, ...then I could have the greatest and most perfect revenge against my brother, who always acted like it was completely natural for him to succeed the head...  Even though she had the form of my young self, she was another me. ...Anyways, since she was me, she had a sharp tongue. : "...It really makes me mad hearing that from myself. You have no right to speak of me like that.": "Then let's use that anger and learn from it. ...Changing anger into power is my magic. I've saved you from several predicaments with that power, and allowed you to succeed where you shouldn't have succeeded. As long as you have my magic, there's nothing you can't do."Well. I’m sure nothing terrible can come of someone having a witch literally fueled by rage hanging out in their head. No sirree. : "...That's right. Anger has always been my driving force. I wonder when it was that I forgot that..." : “Let's go to college, study more and more, get excellent grades, and drive Krauss into a corner. That guy makes a face as though we're nothing, but I'm sure he feels pretty well cornered in his heart. If only he would just learn his place and die. If he did, we could become the head. Rudolf would just refuse. That kid can't go against us."See Eva? Your teenage hallucination witch self understands how inheritance works.   : "...Stop that. ...Even if I study more, Father still won't accept me." : "Why...?": "Father told me to be womanly... No matter how hard I try, as long as I'm a woman, even if I had been born before Nii-san, Father wouldn't pass on the headship to me... No matter how much effort I put in, ...I can't become anything more than a woman. I won't be accepted. I can't surpass Nii-san, who doesn't try at all. I will always be looked down upon...": "...Father and Krauss are the worst kind of male supremacists. If only they'd just die."...She cursed them for my sake. Words that I couldn't say carelessly, ...she said for me. Even though I understood that she was just another part of myself inside of me, ...I felt like she was the only ally I had who could sympathize with me. However, while sympathy could calm my heart significantly, it wouldn't do anything to improve my current situation. ...In the end, she could only console me when I was dejected by reality, and when I needed to accept it.   : "You can't do that.": "…"'She' rejected my timid thoughts. ...I understand. ...Because 'she' is me, I understand.  : "Father said that he won't let a woman succeed the head 'now'. But that's never been anything more than a rule that Father decided on. Since Father decided on it, he can reject it. ...People's feelings can change many more times than there are grains of sand on a beach. Even if we don't prove that Krauss is a stupid man, Father will eventually realize it. ...At that time, the wall that separates man from woman will be demolished by Father, who set it up in the first place. That day will surely come.": "...How can you say surely?": "That is my, ...magic.": "..." If I can use that magic, ...then surely, until I die, I won't have to doubt that the day will come when I will become the head. ...But I don't know if that is the right thing for Ushiromiya Eva... Shouldn't I aim to become the kind of woman that Father hoped for, someone he can take out into society and boast about? Father might take a better view of me if I were reborn. ...Maybe my brother could find his own lifestyle, and I could find mine. No matter what, I can't imagine that my stubborn father would allow a woman to succeed the head, would even push aside my brother to select me. : "...You don't believe?": "U, ...um, I was just thinking. ...Maybe I can't succeed the head, but, as a woman, I can have a child. And Nii-san still isn't engaged. ...If Nii-san wasn't able to have children, and I could, ...then wouldn't the next head after Nii-san be my child? In other words, ...wouldn't that mean the same thing as stealing the headship from Nii-san...?": "...Are you serious?": "Y, ...yes. I'm serious. ...It will indeed be quite sad to throw away the determination from my years as a young girl. ...It will pain my heart to betray you, my younger self. ...But this way is the most realistic...!" : "I'm not throwing anything away. ...It's just that I've become an adult, and I'm different from you now.": "That's right. Eva's already become an adult. She's even forgotten how to use magic. ...She is now the mother of a single child. She's forgotten the magic that can grant her own dreams, and is now pushing those dreams onto her son. ...Even though Father and Krauss made your own life so chaotic, you're trying to push your dreams onto your son, and make his life chaotic too. ...Is that what you call being an adult?": "G, George is a confident son who won't embarrass himself no matter where he goes...! The dream that wasn't granted me might be granted to George...! Jessica's grades and behavior aren't good at all. And she's a woman! If only Jessica would step down, George would become the heir...!"Well. Even then it might just come down to which Kinzo finds marginally more palatable: a female head, or a future head who’s half table. It was very painful to say it. Am I just forcing my own regrets onto George? Jessica hasn't done anything to be scorned for. Wasn't I just horrible for hitting her with the same words that had caused me so much suffering...? ...I understand. I understand... Wanting to triumph over my brother was nothing more than my revenge. ...I couldn't use George for that...  : "...What a boring plan. Why don't you just give up and cry yourself to sleep...?": "...": "We will become the head of the Ushiromiya family. ...Don't try to confuse that dream. Therefore, believe in me, so that your dream will definitely be realized. Believe in my magic.": "...If I believe, I wonder if the magic will have any power." : "...I'll believe. ...I'll believe, ...so create a miracle with that magic...If you don't, ...the hole in my heart will never heal...": "Yes. ...Then listen well. Listen to my magic words. ...And then understand. If we can solve the riddle, we can become the Ushiromiya family head. ...So lend me your ears and listen carefully..."Oh, hey, someone's actually taking a serious shot at the epitaph. And it only took two episodes of Beatrice reminding them every couple murders that it's the only way to not get horribly murdered.  Note that the first line given here is slightly different from the standard version of the epitaph. Translation inconsistencies!  When Kyrie shook her shoulders, Eva jumped and awoke from her doze. : "...eh. ...Ah, ...I'm sorry. I was half asleep." : "Sorry for surprising you.": "Eva oba-san, you were out cold. Did you get up early this morning?": "...Ah, well. I showed you all something embarrassing. I'm sorry." : "Although it's nice that you had enough spare time to be able to sleep, right? Battler kept saying 'We're gonna fa-ll, we're gonna dro-wn!'. Can't get bored with this guy around." : "Sh, shut up! All humans have at least one thing that they're bad at...!"Battler and Jessica came in, messing around. Rudolf also made a face as if asking, 'Are you alright?'.  : "That's it. ...Let's all tense up our assholes and go."Rudolf said these strict words in a small voice that only Eva could hear. Failure would not be tolerated in this year's family conference. ...All of their companies were hanging in the balance. Even Rudolf's face looked a little tense. Eva's expression probably looked tense as well.  : "Mom, I have our luggage. Let's go up onto the deck." : "...Thank you. You sure are reliable, George.": "Why are you thanking me so suddenly? It's not like you, Mother." It seemed Maria was already getting excited. She ran circles around Hideyoshi, escaping from Rosa, who was trying to catch her. : "..." : "What is it, Mother? ...Do you feel sick...?": "George. Take the luggage and go on ahead. Yer mother's probably anemic, I'll give her a hand.": "Really...? I understand, I'll go on ahead."By looking at the strange appearance of Eva's expression, Hideyoshi realized that it had not been a pleasant awakening, and made George go on ahead. Rudolf's family and Rosa's family also went up onto the deck, leaving only Eva and Hideyoshi inside the boat. Eva had a vague expression on her face, as though she still hadn't been able to escape from her daydream. : "…": "...What's wrong? Why the meek face?"  : "That isn't true. George is our wonderful son, and he'll always perform admirably wherever he goes. Eva, even if your expectations were a little mixed, everything's turned out alright in the end, hasn't it?! Eva, you haven't done anything wrong. To the contrary, George should thank you for strictly disciplinin' him, right?": "...Really? Hey, really?! I wonder, does George think I'm a horrible mother...?! Does he, does he does he does he?!": "He's never said anythin' like that even once. That's just your needless anxiety." : "Hideyoshi-sama. Everyone has left the boat. ...Oh, did you drop something? Shall I help you?"Kumasawa had come to check on them when they hadn't gone up to the deck. Hideyoshi hid Eva behind his back so that her expression couldn't be seen. : "Yeah, sorry. My necktie pin just got a lil' crooked! We're alright, we'll go soon. Wait outside fer us!": "Is that so? ...Hoh-hoh-ho. Then I will wait outside..."Even though she didn't really understand, Kumasawa realized that something had come up, and disappeared so that she didn't trouble them further. If they stayed here any longer, they would probably make everyone else worry too.  : "Yeah. Nothin' of the sort. In fact, he's very grateful.": "...": "...Did ya have a bad nightmare? Again?": "...Yes."Hideyoshi knew that it wasn't rare for Eva to be tortured by nightmares. And they would always become more striking on the days leading up to the family conference... Hideyoshi knew that Eva's relationship with Krauss was still so full of antagonism that it could even be called trauma, and that she still couldn't separate herself from the feelings she'd had as a child.  : "...*giggle* That hurts. ...Thank you. I'm fine now...Let's get off the boat.": "Yeah. Let's get off the boat. Everyone's waitin' for us.": "...Umm, ...I'm sorry.": "Hmm?": "...I'm sorry, ...that I yelled at you, ...about the smoke from your cigarettes just now...": "Come on, you normally wouldn't apologize for that sort of thing. ...You're all frail after havin' that dream. ...Don't worry about it. I was wrong for not realizin' that the smoke was affectin' you."  : "Hideyoshi-sama, Eva-sama. Is everything alright? Are you not feeling well?"This time, Gohda had come. It looked like they had kept everyone waiting too long after all. Eva also stood up without grumbling. ...She had to stop forcing her bad mood onto her husband and causing him any more trouble. ...Because that was probably what a 'good wife' would do. : "Is everything alright? If you are worried about your health, shall I call Doctor Nanjo?": "Thanks. I'm just a little anemic. I'm alright now.": "It's a woman's disease. Don't worry about it. Wah-hahahahahaha.": "Come on... Don't say stuff like that in front of people, it's embarrassing.": "Oooh, sorry, sorry."Eva elbowed Hideyoshi in the gut. By that time, her normal expression had returned, which allowed Hideyoshi to relax a little.  Two updates and everyone's already on the island in 1986. Why couldn't you have moved that fast, Ep2? : "Please, Eva-sama. Your hand.": "Thank you.":"Welcome to Rokkenjima."  No, it hadn't seemed that way. ...Someone 'had told' her "Welcome back". After becoming a shameless adult, ...the voice of her young self was distant. Guess Rokkenjima is prime real estate for incorporeal witches. : "What am I living for...? What can I do to release myself from this delusion...?"Hideyoshi heard her talking to herself. When Hideyoshi held on tightly to Eva's shoulders, just by his firmness, he communicated that there was no need to say anything more...       As always, the epitaph is in the TIPs. Maybe I should put the full thing somewhere easy to reference one of these days. Next time: Goetia.
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Jul 3, 2014 12:35
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Eva had a hard life.
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Jul 3, 2014 14:09
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All the Ushiromiya kids had a hard life and it's amazing none of them took the time to poison Kinzo's absinthe. RK07 has a depressingly good hold on how to write abusive family dynamics.
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Jul 3, 2014 16:35
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quote:Apparently Kinzo has been wearing the exact same suit and cape for...what, like 30 years now, probably? Either that or he's got a whole closet full of dozens of them.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:15
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Hideyoshi might be the closest thing to a decent, well-functioning human being on the island, even if he can't quite pull off the double-breasted suit.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:23
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Paracelsus posted:Hideyoshi might be the closest thing to a decent, well-functioning human being on the island, even if he can't quite pull off the double-breasted suit. In the family anyway. Nanjo seems like a decent guy too.
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Jul 4, 2014 07:59
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Shannon and Kanon are decent enough, though "Well functioning" isn't exactly what I'd call people who think themselves tables.
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Jul 4, 2014 08:01
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Jeek posted:In the family anyway. Nanjo seems like a decent guy too.
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Jul 4, 2014 08:42
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Paracelsus posted:On the other hand, Nanjo is something like friends with Kinzo. That requires a certain amount of crazy to override the self-preservation instincts that would ordinarily prevent such a thing from happening. He's also been the family physician for decades, think of all the times he's had to patch up the kids after Kinzo played Punch Out on their faces  .
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Jul 4, 2014 15:54
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Mercury Hat posted:All the Ushiromiya kids had a hard life and it's amazing none of them took the time to poison Kinzo's absinthe. I'm not sure if this is a Ryukishi thing in general, as I'm not very familiar with his other stuff, but it's definitely a When They Cry thing that no one is allowed to have a non-terrible family. I'm trying to think of a major character in either whose family is at all important and whose relationship with them isn't some form of hosed up, and all that comes to mind is...Keichii, I think? And maybe Rika? It's been long enough that it's entirely possible I'm forgetting something horrible about those families, though. Mercury Hat posted:He's also been the family physician for decades, think of all the times he's had to patch up the kids after Kinzo played Punch Out on their faces Don't forget Rosa after beatings from Krauss. Or Maria after Rosa's episodes.
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Jul 5, 2014 01:15
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We're on the island already! I'm definitely looking forward to the better pacing of this episode after episode 2, hard to wait for the next update even now. Eva definitely has one of the harsher back-stories of the cast, though to be fair only four of them grew up with Kinzo as dad and so the others would obviously have a hard time comparing.
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Jul 5, 2014 01:58
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Shiny777 posted:I'm not sure if this is a Ryukishi thing in general, as I'm not very familiar with his other stuff, but it's definitely a When They Cry thing that no one is allowed to have a non-terrible family. Ryukishi07 may not have had the best childhood. I'm not far into Rose Guns Days yet, but so far it just seems to be about a bunch of total badasses being total badasses together. Everyone certainly faces problems, but it has more to do with terrible economy and the ensuing high crime rates rather than being in an unloving environment. I'm not even to the end of the first season yet, though, so I fully expect a turnaround at some point. (Also it's worth pointing out that possibly the reason no one seems to be having family problems is because everyone's families have been wiped out by tornadoes.) *At the hands of students, teachers, and ghosts.
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Jul 5, 2014 02:09
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Shiny777 posted:And maybe Rika? Rika actually has a really lovely relationship with her mom, because of Hanyuu effectively raising her. And in Matsuribayashi-hen, it's shown that Rika pretty explicitly knows that the Irie Clinic kills her parents, and doesn't really care. Part of that's definitely from the whole actually 100-years old thing, but still... Wanton Spoon posted:Ryukishi07 may not have had the best childhood. Niel fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 02:21
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Wanton Spoon posted:Ryukishi07 may not have had the best childhood. In RGD, family stuff becomes increasingly important and is one of the main reasons for a lot of the stuff in the later parts. Though it doesn't have as much of the whole "abusive/uncaring parent" stuff that's in the other stories. Spoilers for later RGD: The person who is the closest to the main villain is after revenge for stuff that happened to his family, for example.
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Jul 5, 2014 02:35
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Speaking of RGD is that fully translated because am interested in reading it.
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Jul 5, 2014 18:52
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The first two "Seasons" of it are fully translated.
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Jul 5, 2014 19:01
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Shiny777 posted:I'm not sure if this is a Ryukishi thing in general, as I'm not very familiar with his other stuff, but it's definitely a When They Cry thing that no one is allowed to have a non-terrible family. I'm trying to think of a major character in either whose family is at all important and whose relationship with them isn't some form of hosed up, and all that comes to mind is...Keichii, I think? And maybe Rika? It's been long enough that it's entirely possible I'm forgetting something horrible about those families, though. Was this posted in the thread yet? Interview with Ryukishi07 (in Japanese, w. English subtitles)
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Jul 5, 2014 22:46
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Rangpur posted:Even the outrageous gore we've seen (read?) so far doesn't phase me much, but I wince whenever Rosa starts in on the emotional abuse. It's made even more painful by the implication she doesn't hate her daughter, but sometimes she gets so mad that she just... can't... help it. For all the crazy poo poo that goes down in his games, details like that cut the deepest. Glad you're still going with this. I need to go back to my playthrough now that you're catching up. Rosa is a very complicated and painful character. Pretty much the whole family is, really, but her especially. And if the author really was a social worker, that explains a lot. And for those wondering whether to look at that interview, it's a nifty behind-the-scenes look without any spoilers that I could see. I didn't know the studio was a family business. It also dates from when they were putting out Higurashi.
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Jul 5, 2014 23:09
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Kaja Rainbow posted:And for those wondering whether to look at that interview, it's a nifty behind-the-scenes look without any spoilers that I could see. I didn't know the studio was a family business. It also dates from when they were putting out Higurashi. Ryukishi07 looks... more normal than I'd have imagined, and so is his family (other than the no game thing, but I have never had a game console except for a single gameboy given as a gift either).
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Jul 6, 2014 05:53
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Dr Pepper posted:The first two "Seasons" of it are fully translated. Oh thanks.
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Jul 6, 2014 18:24
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