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New to this thread, but longtime lurker and huge fan of the previous one. Also, an NYC-based actor, so... you bet, have done some bartending. Currently working as a server instead because now that I'm auditioning again, I have to wake up at normal-people hours and can't afford to be getting in as the sun comes up. I'm 23, can't keep up with the young 'uns anymore. Experience: Worked shirtless in a Hell's Kitchen gay bar for 2 months. Split time between tending bar and serving at an LES cocktail lounge for 3 months while in school. Obviously not a great deal of experience. But if anyone has any relevant questions, fire away. My inquiries for the legendary Internet liquor-slingers of this thread, ignore if they were previously answered and I skipped those pages in the last thread: What's your absolute favorite NYC bar? My list (big bourbon snob, so be prepared for pretentiousness): Bar Centrale On The Rocks Mars Bar (RIP) Death & Co. Employees Only Lansdowne Road Holland Bar What's your guilty-pleasure girly mixed drink? Everyone has one.
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Aug 11, 2012 21:29
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Sondheim posted:I'm 23, can't keep up with the young 'uns anymore. 
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Aug 11, 2012 21:43
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Sondheim posted:I'm 23, can't keep up with the young 'uns anymore. As a 23 year old, I'd like to say that this statement is not representative of all 23 year olds. I still do, in fact, consider myself a yungin'. Also, to contribute, I bartend at a catering hall/restaurant/hotel. I got there by being a server first, then sneaking my way into barbacking, and finally got to bartend. I feel like I'm spoiled since most of the time I'm working, it's an open bar. I never have to worry about handling cash, aside from breaking a $20 every so often. Though, I might have to worry more about cutting people off? Though most anyone who's getting hammered already has a room down the hall in the hotel. Basically, I think I've got it pretty good.
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Aug 11, 2012 22:15
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Sondheim posted:I'm 23, can't keep up with the young 'uns anymore. I'm 38 and the young 'uns can't keep up with ME! Also, Blueberry Stoli and diet Sprite! Don't you judge me!!
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Aug 11, 2012 22:27
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navyjack posted:I'm 38 and the young 'uns can't keep up with ME! My guilty pleasure? I once truly, unironically, enjoyed a vodka soda. And big love to EO. Alcohol can cause pregnancy.
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Aug 11, 2012 22:31
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Sondheim posted:I'm 23, can't keep up with the young 'uns anymore. I really hope you're joking. What the gently caress are you gonna do when you turn 30, move into a nursing home? I'm 41, gonna bartend the rest of my life as far as I'm concerned. Also I have been known to enjoy a Miami Vice now and then 
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Aug 11, 2012 22:32
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Holy gently caress, I'm 28 and I thought the only person in this thread significantly older than me was James Woods and maybe Sheep Goat.
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Aug 11, 2012 22:54
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I don't consider myself old, just well seasoned. I've been in the Hospitality business a LONG time 
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Aug 11, 2012 23:50
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Amor Y Amargo is the best NYC bar, especially when Sother is working and hosed Up is on the speakers. Plus, four dollar house made sweet vermouth on draft all day? Sign me up. Then Painkiller(PKNY now), Maison Premiere, and I feel like I need a beer bar, Pony Bar? I don't know. Union Pool for shows. Really, these are just great places that my friends work at/own. Choom Gangster - Craft cocktail bar & a high volume college nightclub. Who likes working six nights a week? I do. I missed the discussion, but always start as a barback, no matter what line of bartending you are getting into. It's the type of position that paying dues will benefit you more than anyone else. Also, I'm just 25. Choom Gangster fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 00:45
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Sondheim posted:What's your guilty-pleasure girly mixed drink? Everyone has one. Does the sidecar count?
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Aug 12, 2012 01:09
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leica posted:I really hope you're joking. What the gently caress are you gonna do when you turn 30, move into a nursing home? Totally joking. Switched to daytime serving primarily because a) my bar's night shift guys are gonna be there till they die and b) getting up to audition at 7/8 am doesn't work well with getting off work at 5 am every 3 out of 5 weekdays. When I told my friends I was quitting tending, though, the "too old for this poo poo" jokes started flying. Over the hill at 23, pensioner by 27. Frozen Horse posted:Does the sidecar count? The sidecar is dignified and old enough that I don't consider it a girly drink. More a matronly drink. A damely drink. A girly drink would be something shameful like a Midori Sour. Which.... which is mine. Yup. Choom Gangster posted:
Used to live right around the block. Have the shirt.
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Aug 12, 2012 02:28
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Best overall bar in Manhattan is probably Macao but I don't put up with crowded bars any more so I never go to the best. I haven't had time to go out really for the last year but if I did I'd just crawl around alphabet city or that little cluster of Irish bars near my apartment in Woodside. Most girly drink: Half peach schnapps with half midori, topped with half sour and half OJ. They love that poo poo and it's 100% a shameful thing to put in your mouth. I kinda like it too... raton fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 02:37
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Sondheim posted:What's your guilty-pleasure girly mixed drink? Everyone has one. Chocolate martini. Vodka, white creme de cacao, and a cinnamon stir stick in the glass 
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Aug 12, 2012 02:45
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JawKnee posted:Chocolate martini. Stoli vanilla and Godiva white you mean 
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Aug 12, 2012 02:51
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Nope, gently caress that creamy poo poo. I used to use Stoli vanilla though, which is actually quite nice in one
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Aug 12, 2012 02:55
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But then it doesn't look like you're drinking a cup full of icy cum. double There's a friend of mine back in Montana that I always get a Pink Squirrel for and his Irish rear end drinks it like it's manna. Edit: he also ran the length of the bar one time with his hand held out and slapped every single person there in the back of the head and somehow didn't start a fight. In a dive bar. In Montana. raton fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 02:59
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FaceEater: Dive bar, falling maybe somewhere between "empty" and "hipster-cool" with occasional forays into "popular" (with assholes) but only sporadically/when God feels like having a laugh at my expense As for 86's, one guy threatened me after I told him he needed to leave for the night which at that point had happened just one too many times (to the tune of at least 50+ times in like 15 years of coming in. Sorry man but your ability to handle yourself and your liquor can in fact diminish when you get older.) Another guy puked all over himself and the bar for the second time in a couple of months. Meh. Unremarkable I guess, but they both happened on my shifts so I'm not sure what I'm doing right/wrong to provoke people into getting themselves barred by managerial decree for life. And my employment has been in fits and starts forever. Walked into a new place I saw in the process of opening in the dead of winter only to speak with an owner as they were installing sinks, started behind the bar on day one, making staffing/layout/ordering decisions with, uh, very little prior experience and a lot of recommendations and ideas from the previous thread. Thanks, thread. Also did some catering bar work simply because I said I wanted to. A little confidence and some hosed up sense of good timing and an apparent ability to talk my way into things have landed me in a lot of the places (I thought) I've wanted to be. So much of the few places I've tended bar have simply been due to luck, honesty, and hard work getting noticed. And yeah, barback. Quietly, with a strong back, and figure out how to move around a bar. Listen and do, and if someone seems mad/unhappy with you, see if you can ask them why, after service and after money's been counted of course. Girly drink: Does a White Russian count? Or an occasional shandy? Made off a draft pour with real lemonade, not that pre-mixed Leine's canned poo poo you heathens. Unless it's Stiegl Radler Grapefruit. That poo poo is DEEEEEE-lish! Ally McBeal Wiki fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 04:23
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I've never had a shandy, but with the temperatures hovering around 110 degrees right now, it seems like something I might enjoy. Any recommendations on drafts? I have XX Lager, Shiner Bock, Bud Light, Abita Turbodog, Stella Artois, Saint Arnold's Elissa IPA, Shock Top, and Sam Adams Octoberfest on tap.
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Aug 12, 2012 05:07
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Daric posted:Any recommendations on drafts? They're in the same general ballpark as Shock Top (way better), but especially in the summer, Ommegang Witte or Duvel go like gangbusters. I'm not sure how wide Ommegang's reach is these days, when I moved to NY 3 years ago it seemed like it was basically limited to NYC and environs, but grab that poo poo NOW if you can.
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Aug 12, 2012 06:10
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You covered weddings briefly - Can I ask a bit more about semantics? I want to have a wedding reception for about 100 people in a nonprofit space. In order to serve alcohol, we need a certified bartender and insurance. Event insurance covers alcohol. How are costs if we serve signature drinks (mine and his favorites), providing the alcohol wholesale plus sodas and juices? What is the rate we'd provide a bar in the NY state region? Any experience with drunken family wedding brawls? My parents just split, and I'm worried my dad may get rowdy with too much jamba juice in him after a few hours.
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Aug 12, 2012 06:12
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To the guy sitting in front of the well asking me "What's that?!" about every single thing that came out of my shaker for over an hour. "IT'S A loving CORONA!"
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Aug 12, 2012 09:31
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Dude, you should really be stirring your corona's, not shaking them
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Aug 12, 2012 10:12
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Ice chips in my Corona, an essay, by Goat.
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Aug 12, 2012 12:04
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Tom Rakewell posted:My guess is that's also tied into the size of the specific market too. In other words, in most of the large cities I've visted have bars with exclusively Hispanic or immigrant support staff, whereas smaller-medium cities, like college towns, will hire non-immigrant barbacks with the intent of promotion. I had a somewhat similar experience in my downward spiral into the industry, but I'm glad to have had the opportunity to stick it out working with hispanic barbacks for as long as I did. I feel bad for the guys, they certainly work hard/er than anyone, but I was hired, sight unseen, to be the white barback; reversing several years of policy dictating the opposite. Just trying to keep up with these guys got me into the best shape I'd been in ten years, and since there was no language barrier between me, the staff, and the customers, everyone was quick to teach me everything. Early on, a bartender asked me to fetch a white whisky, and I asked what the deal was with that, and since it was slow, he basically told me everything about whisky and aging. That stuff happened a lot. Barbacks work closer to the rest of the staff than the rest of the staff work with eachother (the space between each staff positions seems to be filled by the barback), and there's a lot to learn about the how the bar, and booze, works. I learned more in six months of barbacking than most servers ever learned, and it made me a better server and bartender, and has allowed me to train better barbacks, servers, and bartenders who haven't had as good of an experience as I had. I owe a lot to starting out in an asskicking barback position with tough Central American dudes, and when I've barbacked at places without them, the job has been much easier, and less challenging. I'm sure that there's a profound regional variation to things, but that's how it worked for me in the DC area. I'm less than a year out from no experience, but I do pretty good work at a really great bar. Also, on the bartender/mixologist thing: The people I know who are called mixologists, refer to themselves as bartenders, and I work almost exclusively in cocktails. Mixologist is more a term that I see used in reviews and advertising where the intent is to differentiate one bar's style from the general idea of bars. The pity is that it doesn't work. People just assume that mixology means "good bar" and that if the bar is any good, then surely, they'll have Bud, Grey Goose, and a cucumber draft line for whatever thing they saw on food and dining television. A lot of people never seem to find themselves at the bar they think they're at. doginapot - Craft Cocktails, Spirits, and Volume moonlighting.
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Aug 12, 2012 15:44
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Perdido: High volume nightclub, Canadian What a great weekend. Solid tippers and no idiots, aside from the one guy who thought he was in a cheesy 1980s film. Started a fight because some other guy was "talking to his girlfriend."
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Aug 12, 2012 22:21
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Perdido posted:Perdido: High volume nightclub, Canadian I'm off tomorrow so I'm going to try to collect all these bartenders in the thread and send the list to James Woods And yeah, it was fairly slow today but almost every single person tipped me 20% Except the people that come in right before we close. They sit there forever and never tip anything.
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Aug 13, 2012 06:58
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Daric posted:I'm off tomorrow so I'm going to try to collect all these bartenders in the thread and send the list to James Woods Collect us? And then what are you planning to do to us?  edit: Dear Mr. Woods, As you may know, I have collected your precious barmen. They are safe, for now... Here is a list of my demands.
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Aug 13, 2012 08:51
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Daric posted:I've never had a shandy, but with the temperatures hovering around 110 degrees right now, it seems like something I might enjoy. Shock Top is possibly one of the worst beers I've ever tasted. Maybe I got a bad beer or something but it tasted terrible, like old wet molding shoes mixed with the silt from the bottom of a slightly dirty ash tray settling at the bottom, with a little bit of chemical cleaner aroma. The taste of my buddy's wasn't any better. In a word, bad. If you can, replace it with Hoegaarden if you can, or, for German wheats, Widmer Hefe, or maybe a Erdinger or Hofbrau Hefe, or christ, just about any other wheat beer that anyone makes. Maybe Shock Top moves at your bar but I wanted to laugh in our rep's face when I overheard him thanking my bar's owner profusely for taking a couple cases of Shock Top's Lemon Shandy earlier this year. We sold cans for $2 and I earnestly felt bad for everyone tempted to bargain hunt that night 
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Aug 13, 2012 09:25
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Pretty tame weekend. Busier than the last several since the college kids are starting to move back to town but no real drama to dish on. So I thought I'd post an old story. Forgive me for not being able to tell a story as well as James Woods does but it's one of those bar stories that comes up frequently at my place when we're counting tips and going on about the old days. So my girlfriend tells me early in the week that one of her brothers, whom I’ve never met, is going to be downtown on his bachelor party this upcoming weekend. Oh gently caress. While we’ve never met, he knows my name and, more importantly, the bar that I work at. But she gives me the heads up that he might stop in and want to talk to me. Now, I’m not looking forward to this. I’m expecting the typical “Hey, you are dating my sister, if you break her heart I’ll break your neck” conversation, which we’d managed to avoid up until this point and I’d really prefer to continue to avoid it. But, whatever. The week passes, it’s Saturday night, and I’ve all but forgotten about her mentioning it. We’re pretty busy that night, not entirely in the weeds, but getting there. The other bartenders and I have spaced ourselves out appropriately across the bar and are focusing on our particular sections. We're pounding out drinks, throwing poo poo at each other at every possible opportunity, lovingly yelling at the barbacks when they get in our way. Business as usual on a busy night. Out of the corner of my eye, I see this group of guys approaching the bar. It’s clearly a bachelor party, not because they are all wearing the same t-shirts, or constantly yelling about “THIS GUY IS GETTING MARRIED!”, but because the bachelor is walking around with this huge fist shaped dildo. An entire fist and then some. And I mean huge. I’ve got a decent sized fist and forearm, but this was painfully bigger. Now, immediately I remember the girlfriend mentioning her brother’s bachelor party and recall that it’s tonight. And while I’ve never seen him before, I see the resemblance and know who he is. He gets to the bar, and gets the attention of the nearest bartender, all the while waving this fist dildo around. But not just waving it around, shaking it at whoever he happened to be talking to, and rather menacingly. Him: “Hey! You! Are you Dirnok? I’m looking for Dirnok!” Bartender: “Uh.. no, that’s not me. He uh.. Dirnok isn’t here. He.. uh.. he isn’t working tonight. Has the night off. Haven't even seen him tonight.” That’s all I could hear from where I was at, there was a bit more conversation but eventually he and his group walked away from the bar and then headed outside. Once they were gone, the bartender involved comes up to me, just completely shocked and serious. Bartender: “Dude, what the gently caress, did you hear that?! Dude was waving around a loving fist and looking for you!” I'm grinning like a motherfucker, I explain to him who that was and why he was looking for me, how the girlfriend had given me the heads up earlier in the week. Bartender: “Oh, well, sorry man, I didn’t know. But I’m never going to point you out to a drunk guy waving around a huge fist dildo. Ever.” It immediately got added to the "If this happens, this is how you handle it.." list that we go through with each rookie bartender. Guy with any sort of dildo asking about a bartender, said bartender is absolutely not loving here. We maintain that policy to this day. Dirnok fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Aug 13, 2012 |
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Aug 13, 2012 09:47
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So, this is a little random to ask in here, but I figure with the amount of experience, someone will know for sure. There is this thing going around that managers are not allowed to keep tips off of credit card tabs, even if they serve the customer exclusively because those belong to a tip pool. Give you an example. Say Customer A walks in, orders a drink from me(manager), pays cash tips cash. Now, I'm not allowed by law to participate in a tip pool, so that money all goes to me. Same thing if he pays and tips with a credit card. Now say that customer B comes in, starts a tab with me (manager), and I serve him all night and he tips. Under the way we currently do things, that money still goes to me. If he had started the tab with another bartender, and happened to close out with me, then that tip would go into the communal pool that I am not part of. Now, a couple of bartenders are insisting that any tab credit card, since a customer COULD start the tab with me, get served by other bartenders, then come back and close out with me and tip me, that that tip should go in the communal pool (whether or not any of them served him or not). They're claiming it's part of the law, but none of them can point to a source. Any of you guys really up on your tip-pool law and know where I can find this answer?
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Aug 13, 2012 10:27
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Sheep-Goats posted:Ice chips in my Corona, an essay, by Goat. oh yeah I forgot to mention, last night I had a guy in the restaurant order his martini shaken and with ice chips in it. Then 5+ minutes after it was delivered, it came back... "this is too watery"  I seriously looked around for you with a hidden camera crew or something, and then giggled to myself like an idiot for a while.
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Aug 13, 2012 12:16
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Tip pool laws vary by state, but in my opinion the manager should both not be directly involved in service and if he gets dragged into it he should put the tips into the bartenders tip jar (or hand them over to the server for that section) and give them up entirely. The setup you have where because you're a manager you don't split tips from anyone you happen to serve is extremely divisive and too prone to interpretations of abuse. Very bad policy. You're going to serve some regular because you've known him longer, he's going to do his usual thing and tip well, and the whole bar staff is going to feel that you poached him just so you could line your pocket. Now, I could imagine a bar where the manager also is constantly at work behind the bar (not just "when it gets busy") and in that case he should contribute to and share in the tip pool. If you only work for a couple hours of the night what you do is stuff a new bucket into the old tip bucket, start working, and then split the new bucket tips evenly with the bar. When you stop helping out you stuff a third bucket on top and the bar staff then splits that as they will, just like the first bucket. If you're not allowed to participate in a tip pool you should not be in a position where you expect tips, and if you do get roped in then you shouldn't put yourself in a position where anyone is going to think you're twisting the letter of the law and abusing your position to step on their incomes. "I served him so the law requires I keep all of this for myself, sorry guys" is BS. The law, if that's what it is, clearly wasn't made for that purpose. Another shady tip practice (IMO) is where managers take a cut of service staff (including bar) tips because they enable the bar staff or whatever. However the bartenders pay the salary of the manager and the manager doesn't give them a cut of his weekly check. This is illegal in some states (New York) and both legal and commonplace in others (Vegas). nrr posted:oh yeah I forgot to mention, last night I had a guy in the restaurant order his martini shaken and with ice chips in it. Then 5+ minutes after it was delivered, it came back... "this is too watery" Haha martini guys are so poo poo raton fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Aug 13, 2012 |
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Aug 13, 2012 12:46
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Sheep-Goats posted:Tip pool stuff My previous bar experience before this most recent bit was before tip pool laws became such intricate things, so I don't know how other places deal with this stuff, so I'm really interested in what you think and what you've experienced. When you say "the manager" do you mean just the GM, or everybody with the power to "hire, fire, and discipline"? Cause that is the criteria we are told applies to who may or may not participate in tip pools. I think that specific language comes from the Choi vs Starbucks ruling, but I'm not sure. We had to change the title of our shift supervisors to "bar leads" to make it clear that they didn't have that ability. As an assistant manager in the company I work for, I am paid at the lowest legal rate for a salaried employee and expected to sing for my supper behind the bar Friday and Saturday nights. If they paid me at that rate and I couldn't bartend, I'd just quit or take a demotion, because I can make that with 3 decent shifts a week with immeasurably less stress (Hell, I've considered it anyway). At the end of the day, it doesn't directly matter to me. I'm conscientious about making sure I don't take tips that don't belong to me (although as long as I have to spend Friday and Saturday nights deep in the weeds for hours I'm sure as poo poo gonna take the ones that DO!), and if my company is doing it wrong, it's their rear end, not mine, but I wish there was clearer guidance so that I could KNOW.
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Aug 13, 2012 14:07
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If you are salaried, you shouldn't be pulling tips, period. Your company's gently caress up, not yours, but a salary implies that you have specific full time obligations to the company. If you were hourly, you could literally clock out as a manager and back in as a bartender for your bar shifts.
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Aug 13, 2012 14:24
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I found the mid-range liquor recommendations from the last thread really helpful. Has there been any change in the best-value gin/whiskey/bourbon/tequila/rum etc. for a home bar over the past two years?
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Aug 13, 2012 14:48
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Forever_Peace posted:I found the mid-range liquor recommendations from the last thread really helpful. Has there been any change in the best-value gin/whiskey/bourbon/tequila/rum etc. for a home bar over the past two years? Nope! Still the same. navyjack posted:My previous bar experience before this most recent bit was before tip pool laws became such intricate things, so I don't know how other places deal with this stuff, so I'm really interested in what you think and what you've experienced. When you say "the manager" do you mean just the GM, or everybody with the power to "hire, fire, and discipline"? Cause that is the criteria we are told applies to who may or may not participate in tip pools. I think that specific language comes from the Choi vs Starbucks ruling, but I'm not sure. We had to change the title of our shift supervisors to "bar leads" to make it clear that they didn't have that ability. As an assistant manager in the company I work for, I am paid at the lowest legal rate for a salaried employee and expected to sing for my supper behind the bar Friday and Saturday nights. If they paid me at that rate and I couldn't bartend, I'd just quit or take a demotion, because I can make that with 3 decent shifts a week with immeasurably less stress (Hell, I've considered it anyway). A manager is not just the GM. It's anyone with administrative abilities who draws a decent salary for them and for whom those administrative tasks take a significant amount of time. Why are you doing managerial stuff for free? If they want real work ask for real money. They're putting you in a lovely spot. raton fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Aug 13, 2012 |
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Aug 13, 2012 15:49
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Sounds like you need to get out from under your "title". IMO, companies use titles and salaries as a way to gently caress over employees more often than not, but if you're happy with your title/salary then you need to stop collecting tips. Otherwise go back to being a bartender, because tipped employees tend to make more money than management (especially assistant management) anyway. I can't count how many times I've heard managers bitch and complain during closeouts that the servers/bartenders are making more money than them. So why be a manager then?
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Aug 13, 2012 19:01
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leica posted:Sounds like you need to get out from under your "title". IMO, companies use titles and salaries as a way to gently caress over employees more often than not, but if you're happy with your title/salary then you need to stop collecting tips. Otherwise go back to being a bartender, because tipped employees tend to make more money than management (especially assistant management) anyway. This is a really important point to make about the service industry. A title isn't a promotion. More money for less work is a promotion. If they reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaalllyyyyyyyyyyy neeeeeeeeeeeeeeed your help then they can reaaaaaaaaaaaallyyyyyy paaaaaaaay for it. Otherwise they can pound sand. This issue only becomes slightly cloudy if you're past 35 and still walking the plank. At that point you've probably blown any shot you have at a normal career and need to start thinking about "how can I open my own place ASAP" and start learning the back of house stuff and collecting partners for opening it up. As to why they're managers instead of bartenders, it's usually because they've gotten too old/fat to hold a bar job.
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Aug 13, 2012 20:25
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Opening your own place is a very high risk, at least in the area I live in. Liquor license? Haha, good luck with that, even if you do manage to get one it doesn't guarantee anything. Never mind the fact if you have a family good luck keeping it together trying to run a bar. I'm over 35 and it's no where near cloudy for me. As long as I can still function behind a bar I'll probably always have shifts somewhere, I know bartenders that are into their 60's, you just have to work in the appropriate bar. Management is not an option unless a really good opportunity that I couldn't refuse fell into my lap. Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Aug 13, 2012 |
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Aug 13, 2012 21:32
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I know bartenders in their 50s and it ain't no job for an older guy/gal. The only ones that don't seem totally busted are the ones with union casino jobs or ritzy hotel bars, but there's crosshairs on every one of them from management. I agree that opening your own place is a huge risk and a ton of work and probably an immeasurable headache. However, if you've only got one shot then you have to take it.
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Aug 13, 2012 21:42
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