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The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
For the LED bulbs, are they doing cycle testing? I mean, I know the standard bulb testing is pretty questionable in terms that they usually just leave the light on until it degrades to a certain point, much like a metal creep test. UL is pretty bad about making good, rigorous light bulb tests in my opinion.

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The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

silence_kit posted:

Yes, I am actually pretty knowledgeable about silicon solar cell processing. I am not as familiar with how the sand gets converted into silicon, the purification of the silicon, and then the growth of the silicon crystals. I do know quite a bit about how the silicon crystals get turned into solar cells.
Siemens process/CZ process/occasionally FZ process. These processing techniques are really basic, and if you don't know the basics, why would people assume you know the rest of Si solar cell processing. Okay, out with it, what university did you get kicked out of? You have this weird hard-on for hating on people with advanced degrees.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

silence_kit posted:

I don't have any firsthand experience with purifying silicon or growing bulk silicon crystals (I have never worked in a silicon purifying plant or silicon wafer plant--have you?) so that's why I say I'm less familiar with it. I've only learned about it briefly in a class. I don't hate people with advanced degrees, but I find it annoying when people, who instead of actually explaining things, namedrop their credentials or terminology and expect others to be impressed. I'm not unique in that regard.

And that somehow keeps you from even discussing the idea of silicon purification to the level of identifying the names of some of the processes? Uh huh. Why should anybody believe you when you say that you done silicon processing for solar cells?

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

silence_kit posted:

Claverjoe, I understand that you have some sort of personal vendetta against me. It has been a couple of times now you've barged into a thread on these forums just to slander me. I suggest that you let sleeping dogs lie and maybe find something else to do with your free time.

Oh goodness no, I just don't like it when I see threads I like shitted up by stupidity. I'm not unique in that regard.

I mean, If I posted in all of the threads you posted in, I suppose you could make a case, but the I don't post in the online dating thread, the "how do I approach somebody without being a creep", or the "social justice warrior" threads, from a quick glance at your post history.

The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jun 18, 2014

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
In theory, sure. But it'd be hard with the more "traditional" method of battery storage. You'd need something like 5 billion tons of lead for the battery (with the USGS saying we worldwide proven reserves are maybe 80 million tons), going off an old theoildrum article.

i.e., this sucker.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8237

As a side note, while the website is no longer being continually updated, I encourage everybody interested in some moderate number crunching to read the website's articles. Good stuff on the whole.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

double nine posted:

So is nuclear/fossil/solar/hydro/wind/geothermal the energy mix that we're stuck with, or are there still sci-fi level energy sources that could plausibly be the savior of our energy concerns?

Well, you could read up on the Polywell nuclear reactor and pray to whatever motivates you that it actually works. It has made it past the long research stage and they are trying to raise funds to build something they can run a turbine off of.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

silence_kit posted:

TL;DR: Since Power = Voltage x Current, and Voltage is proportional to the logarithm of solar intensity and Current is proportional to solar intensity, the efficiency ( = Power/(Solar Intensity x Cell Area)) increases with the logarithm of solar intensity, and efficiency increases under solar concentration.

Ouch, my brain. Voc is essentially governed by the band gap of the solar cell material. A bandgap of 1.1 eV is going to get you (less than) 1.1 V of potential, mostly from the problems of recombination and the like that come with a doped semiconductor.

I'm sure you can get a huge logjam of excited states in an unconnected solar cell device until the rate of recombination balances out with the rate of generation of electron-hole pairs saturating the conduction band of the material, but, uhhh, then you don't have it doing anything and nobody gives a poo poo.


Voltage from a solar cell depends on the band gap, like so:





Though the practical voltage you get will always be lower than the ideal.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

silence_kit posted:

Claverjoe, you are quoting me out of context. I was explaining to someone why solar cell efficiency can increase under solar concentration. You pointing out that the solar cell open-circuit voltage often tends to go with the semi-conductor energy gap is neither here nor there.

The voltage doesn't have to go with energy gap though. Plenty of people have made junk solar cells with high energy gap semi-conductors which have had worse open-circuit voltages than silicon.


Under solar concentration, the photo-generated electron and hole concentration in the cell should be higher than when under 1 sun, and so the quasi-Fermi level splitting (this is Voltage) should be greater than when under 1 sun. This is certainly true at open circuit but it is also true when the cell is at its operating point. This is why the voltage of a solar cell often increases and so the efficiency often increases under solar concentration.

Oh sure, but that difference is minor league, and the necessary cooling for keeping it at that efficiency seriously cuts into the available excess energy. Eh, whatever.

for those interested, there is a neato little interactive widget that you can slide up and down for what is being talked about here, for a standard silicon solar cell:

http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/solar-cell-operation/effect-of-light-intensity

It's pretty drat minor, but yeah, it's there.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Dameius posted:

I'm not really sure where to ask, but since there are industry goons in the thread I feel this is as good as any: anyone know how the DoE has been fairing under Perry? The lack of scandals actually has me more nervous with that slimy gently caress than if he'd already screwed the pooch.

His office is interfering with the climate and renewable energy people and especially their ability to speak on their own without approval. The core functions remain intact, because he's be murked if he touched those.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Killing the NRC, making the DOE take over their function, have a mission to either directly build out the US nuclear power industry and sell it at cost to the grid should be a priority. Nothing else but a massive will will get it jumpstarted again.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
The earlier comment about Manhattan Project leftovers being a huge bitch are true (Hanford site, some of the earlier storage tanks as the Savannah River Site), but we mostly have a lock on how to store radioactive waste since the 1960s or so.

And the only reason why we are super worried about the Hanford site is that 1) they are single hull containers and 2) *nobody wrote down anything about the containers* which kinda shits on our remediation efforts. Since then it's kinda hum-drum.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

VideoGameVet posted:

0.625" Stainless with less than a 40 year life, not the permanent stuff.

San Onofre storage canisters may start leaking radiation into the environment as early as 2020, possibly sooner.

The NRC reported a similar container at the Koeberg nuclear plant in South Africa failed after 17 years from chloride-induced stress corrosion cracking (CISCC), triggered by corrosive salt in the marine environment.

Koeberg is located in a similar corrosive marine environment as San Onofre: on-shore winds, surf and frequent fog. The Koeberg container crack depth was 0.61″. The San Onofre canisters are 0.625″ thick. The canisters at other California locations are even thinner (0.50″). There are over 2000 loaded canisters in the U.S. Most are 1/2″ (0.50″).

San Onofre started loading canisters with spent fuel in 2003. If San Onofre canisters have experience similar to Koeberg, that means a canister at San Onofre would start releasing radiation into the environment as early as 2020.

San Onofre is not South Africa's third-hand nuclear program that they got from Israel (not quite) stealing info from the US because Israel found a kindred spirit in apartheid South Africa, so I'm not super certain about that comparison. Hell, we put far, far more radioactive waste in open pits if it isn't coming from a light water reactor. Hurricane Florence probably washed more radioactive waste into the biosphere than the last 20 years of the nuclear industry. Pretty sure the 2014 Dan River spill also rang that bell.

A 1/2 inch steel canister is pretty good for most cases.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Infinite Karma posted:

Because if we reprocess spent fuel, Russia will start making more nuclear bombs. And because we're pieces of poo poo, we'll make more nuclear bombs and lie about it.

We are in the process of making more nuclear bombs already. They shut down the reprocessing plant at SRS and are converting it to a pit production line now. Also, we have actually never really fulfilled those START treaty requirements, since we haven't used processes that are really all that irreversible like it dictates.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

hobbesmaster posted:

I'm not sure solar is going to be very useful during a nuclear winter.

Wildly overstated. "Nuclear Winter" assumes everyone decides to do ground-bursts for some insane reason, when air-bursts are far more effective for everything besides bunker busting. Sure, worry about an nuclear exchange, 100% (My money is on India/Pakistan/China), but don't worry too much about a nuclear winter. And yes, I'm not an expert, but I talk to the dudes who do the simulations, and that's their statement on the matter.

StabbinHobo posted:

people like you are such utter loving scum. you're just using your mean stupidity and self centered nihlism as an excuse to do nothing, so the rest of us have that much more slack to pick up.

you can, at the very least, shut the gently caress up if you're not going to help.

Totally not emptyquoting.

The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Oct 2, 2018

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Tasmantor posted:

If it's at all subsidised then I think you found your answer. Remember the DoE are probably more like the official energy industry lobby than an actual department so their interest will be in making energy sales not freeing up money for others.

The DoE makes and maintains the nuclear arsenal. That is their primary function. Governor Good Hair is just faffing about with the secondary functions.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

bawfuls posted:

That’s a neat tool, thanks for posting. Doesn’t take a very high carbon tax to make PV and wind the price winner in 90% of the country

Also assuming that the final overnight costs of nuclear are ~double Olkiluoto -3, which is the poster child for "everything done hosed up" of nuclear reactor construction.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Zero VGS posted:

There are a million emerging battery technologies over the last two decades that all hit the news cycle and only 100% of them are pump-and-dump scams or exaggerations by university students that will never see the light of day.

When it's in a box on a shelf, I'll believe it's a thing. If a battery truly exists better than the conventional lithium we have now, Apple will chuck a bajillion dollars to get it in the next iPhone.

See also: lithium-air, gold nanowire, solid-state polymers, graphene supercapacitors, anything from EEstor, and so on

If graphene supercapacatiors even reach NiMH capacity, I'll goddamn strip naked and run down the streets screaming we solved the energy crisis. I mean, sure, they won't be for cars or for phones, but gently caress it, organized dirt is fundamentally the only thing I can think of to get electricity storage costs low enough to matter.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Not unless we can make Roman concrete with modern mechanical properties.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

fishmech posted:

You're aware the Romans didn't do anything special right? Modern formulas with the ability to accurately control the chemical components are much better.

Like I know we can make the same stuff with some modifications to fly ash, but we don't use it because all the neat parts of the mineralization in saltwater to heal small cracks doesn't have the same mechanical properties as the stuff we normally use.

Fly away troll.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Surprise Giraffe posted:

Arent samsung going graphene for the s10s battery?

I'm guessing it's a graphene cathode for a standard lithium battery instead of a graphite cathode. Still good, but it's still a battery with a limited number of charges and discharges. Like 1000-2000 before it degrades a bunch.

A supercapacitor would be a bit different. Instead of one side graphene and the other lithium(carbonate?) It'd be graphene/graphene for both sides and an acids or a molten salt for the electrolyte. The big advantage is that a good supercapacitor can do north of 100,000 charges and discharges before it goes bad.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Rime posted:

- They aren't long-term jobs which provide job security, you have a contract for six months to two years and then either move or find other work.

- Eventually we will run out of turbines to build and shift to maintenance, much as has happened with Hydro, and 90% of the guys working on this poo poo are barely smart enough to turn a wrench the correct direction let alone hold down a job in maintenance.

- Offshore construction requires specialized training (see point 2 above) and smaller crews.

It will be a hard sell to the masses of Joe Bud Lights that they have a bright future in Renewable Energy, vs. assembling depleted uranium shells down in Bumblyfuck Dyingtown - Kentucky.


That being said I'm looking forward to getting my full GWO package this summer, because :asoiaf: do I want to build a Haliade X while I"m in this business.


The turbine dicks get bigger.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/design-for-50mw-offshore-wind-turbine-inspired-by-palm-trees#gs.2_Li_2Y

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

Trabisnikof posted:


Or is this one of those “stupid scientists don’t know how the real world works” kinda thing?


This.

Infinite Karma posted:

I feel like that analysis is biased - severe anoxia/hypoxia is a climate emergency wherever it occurs, and you don't get that kind of greenhouse gas generation under normal conditions. That's why the median is so low. It's a controllable part of the cycle, if you're actually paying attention to it.

The problems is making sure people pay attention to it.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

BrandorKP posted:

They've wanted something like that for a while. A long time ago as an undergrad we modeled a system that had a hydrogen generator that used the waste heat from a PWR cycle in one of my nuclear engineering classes.

Odd request perhaps, but would you have a good recommendation on textbooks for reactor design and economics? Especially if it has PHWR or the CANDU types. It's on my "to get" list for my engineering textbook library hobby.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

BrandorKP posted:

We used ISBN 978-1-4613-5866-4 Nuclear Reactor Engineering, Glasstone and Sesonske

Thanks, on my "to buy" list now.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
They work just fine, more O&M from corrosion effects unless somebody pops out an additive or a molten salt formulation that would inhibit the corrosion at the wall-molten salt boundary. IIRC Dr. Garcia-Diaz was working on something similar-ish for a liquid lithium tritium breeding blanket for ITER when I left the DOE. Heck, she might have a project on it by now, I know IDL was wanting to get their design on paper dusted off for another look.

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The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless

VideoGameVet posted:

Crafted Steel Bicycles.

I see people cycling on the same Peugeots, Fujis etc. that I was assembling at a bike shop when I was in High School, in the early 1970's.

Man, I want a steel bike for a commuter.

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