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That is a lot of stuff to release in one year, hopefully it doesn't bite them in the rear end.
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Oct 9, 2015 22:19
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Yeah, it is a bit much. Personally, I think doing 3 shows (4 if you do GBF and GBFT) in a year should be the goal. Release one around February/March, then another in July/August, and the last in November/December. Maybe scatter some small stuff like the 0079 movies, Zeta movies, CCA, F91, that kind of thing in there as well. That seems safer to me.
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Oct 9, 2015 22:22
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OZC posted:Yeah, it is a bit much. Personally, I think doing 3 shows (4 if you do GBF and GBFT) in a year should be the goal. Release one around February/March, then another in July/August, and the last in November/December. Maybe scatter some small stuff like the 0079 movies, Zeta movies, CCA, F91, that kind of thing in there as well. That seems safer to me. Yeah, most of the big anime companies in the west space out their big releases while sprinkling the lesser known stuff in between and it seems to do well enough for them. Considering how many of those sets will be split into parts it's enough to make even some hardcore fans cringe at the amount they'd spend in a single year.
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Oct 9, 2015 22:31
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I think they're making a somewhat smart choice dubbing IBO over G-Reco. I mean, in the end G-Reco may be a better show, but IBO is vaguely Wing and god knows that kind of nostalgia moves poo poo quick. As for the crazy quick release pattern, I guess they're hellbent on making up for lost time. Unless it includes the amazing dub, I think I can pass on at least the 0079 movies, I managed to snag one of those for $40 at a con somehow. Wonder when/if they'll be doing SEED/Destiny/00.
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Oct 10, 2015 06:28
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I liked G-Reco but yeah, IBO is the better idea. Not because Wingbucks, but IBO is shaping up to have much more mainstream appeal than G-Reco.
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Oct 10, 2015 07:29
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TARDISman posted:I think they're making a somewhat smart choice dubbing IBO over G-Reco. I mean, in the end G-Reco may be a better show, but IBO is vaguely Wing and god knows that kind of nostalgia moves poo poo quick. I expect the 0079 movies to at least follow Turn A's lead and use SD versions of the BD masters, which means that unless they want to do what Bandai Ent had to do for the series and resync the audio scene by scene by slightly cutting or stretching it as needed, it'll likely be sub-only. Especially since anyone who watched the Anime Legends sets Bandai put out or the new DVDs or BDs for the series and watched the dub has probably noticed that at times, the syncing is still horribly off, like one of the fight scenes in space with Char early on where the gunshot eff ects are off by quite a bit. Not to say it can't be done, but I question if they'd put that kind of time into it.
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Oct 10, 2015 07:55
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Reds posted:I liked G-Reco but yeah, IBO is the better idea. Not because Wingbucks, but IBO is shaping up to have much more mainstream appeal than G-Reco. Yeah, G-Reco is good but half the dialogue draws from "those fuckheads really pissed the Earth away in the Universal Century a millenia ago". Something entirely standalone is easily the better choice. I still wouldn't put it past them to dub Build Fighters if IBO does well though, simply as a kit-mover.
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Oct 10, 2015 07:57
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The one thing that I think a solid dub would have helped with for G-Reco is the same thing the dub of King Gainer did: improve on how people comprehended the meaning of some of the stranger lines. If you've ever looked at the subs for King Gainer, the show is a mess, but the dub actually managed to make sense of it, which is why despite it not being anything really special as far as dubs go, it tends to get recommended to a lot of people having trouble following the show. Somehow, I think G-Reco could stand to get the same treatment, assuming whoever would handle the dub script were to do it right.
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Oct 10, 2015 08:15
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OZC posted:The one thing that I think a solid dub would have helped with for G-Reco is the same thing the dub of King Gainer did: improve on how people comprehended the meaning of some of the stranger lines. If you've ever looked at the subs for King Gainer, the show is a mess, but the dub actually managed to make sense of it, which is why despite it not being anything really special as far as dubs go, it tends to get recommended to a lot of people having trouble following the show. Somehow, I think G-Reco could stand to get the same treatment, assuming whoever would handle the dub script were to do it right. I watched Overman King Gainer subbed and loved it and don't know what you're talking about.
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Oct 10, 2015 15:10
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I think G-Reco as a show was defined by its (Tomino's?) impatience with traditional storytelling beats/cliches, especially those native to the genre. Whenever it reached territory a prior mecha/Gundam series had covered, it immediately changed course, if only to do something new instead. To me this is the show's biggest strength -- there's no exhausting desert arc or sad newtype victim girl -- and its biggest weakness, because the show's tone jumps all over the place, and it's easy for even an attentive viewer to get lost without some familiar storytelling landmarks. After watching the first ep of IBO, though -- which features scene after scene of exposition, plot beats hit by Wing and 00 before it, and adults explaining the nature and degree of their evil to nobody in particular -- I miss G-Reco's complete indifference to the viewer's comprehension of the plot, and its focus on the flow of individual scenes instead of the "big picture." If Tomino and I have anything in common, it's that neither of us have the time for that crap anymore.
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Oct 10, 2015 17:11
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boom boom boom posted:I watched Overman King Gainer subbed and loved it and don't know what you're talking about. I watched it subbed too and thought it was the most Tomino show ever until G-Reco came out so I can see where he is coming from. Redoing the lines so that they make more sense to the average person watching it would be a smart move since even Tomino said
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Oct 10, 2015 17:25
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Zodar posted:I think G-Reco as a show was defined by its (Tomino's?) impatience with traditional storytelling beats/cliches, especially those native to the genre. Whenever it reached territory a prior mecha/Gundam series had covered, it immediately changed course, if only to do something new instead. To me this is the show's biggest strength -- there's no exhausting desert arc or sad newtype victim girl -- and its biggest weakness, because the show's tone jumps all over the place, and it's easy for even an attentive viewer to get lost without some familiar storytelling landmarks. The only weirdly out of place exposition for the sake of exposition in the first episode of IBO was the blonde dude and his blue haired buddy from Earth Gjallarhorn musing about random stuff. The rest was fairly good about actions speaking louder than words. G-Reco's complete indifference to the viewer's comprehension of the plot felt in large part as a totally accidental product of the show being shorter than it needed to be. I'm almost positive the show would have had exposition scenes if it had had any loving time for it, but it was too busy breathlessly introducing new factions, characters, and plot twists at an astounding rate while still having to meet the Mandatory Gundam Show One Fight Per Week Quota that it simply didn't really have time to do so. Tomino's other modern works that are written in the optimistic style of G-Reco like King Gainer and Turn A definitely had expository scenes.
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Oct 10, 2015 17:27
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Kanos posted:The only weirdly out of place exposition for the sake of exposition in the first episode of IBO was the blonde dude and his blue haired buddy from Earth Gjallarhorn musing about random stuff. The rest was fairly good about actions speaking louder than words. G-Reco does have exposition. It has multiple scenes where people straight-up explain what is going on or what the situation is. It is breathtakingly fast paced but it has exposition. (Also people are making similar complaints about Gainer in this very thread right now.) GimmickMan posted:I watched it subbed too and thought it was the most Tomino show ever until G-Reco came out so I can see where he is coming from. Redoing the lines so that they make more sense to the average person watching it would be a smart move since even Tomino said I literally can't figure out what you mean. I understand G-Reco but I watched Gainer subbed and I don't know what would be particularly confusing there.
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Oct 10, 2015 17:34
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GimmickMan posted:I watched it subbed too and thought it was the most Tomino show ever until G-Reco came out so I can see where he is coming from. Redoing the lines so that they make more sense to the average person watching it would be a smart move since even Tomino said This is what I mean. A lot of us familiar with Tomino's works know what to expect so the clunkier stuff tends to come off as Tomino just being Tomino. Lines like "The world is not square!", it's not hard for us to pretty quickly realize what he was going for, but to your average viewer, it doesn't really read all that well. Plus, for as much as G-Reco tried to break away from the old stuff and work as a sort of introductory Gundam for a younger generation, you've got things like Minovsky Particles being thrown about without any explanation as to what they do (that I can recall anyway, last time I watched the early episodes was in like February and March). Long time fans almost certainly know what they are, but a new viewer or even someone that grew up with Wing, SEED, or 00 isn't going to have the slightest clue. I don't think Tomino ever gets to the point that he's completely incomprehensible in any of his shows, or at least the ones I've watched. Neither Gainer or G-Reco was impossible to follow. But if the average viewer starts getting too lost before the show can click, most of them will wash their hands of it because they don't want to waste their time. The more I think about it, I think it's less of comprehension as I said in my earlier post. While that still plays a part, I think it's more about engaging the viewer, and short of remaking the show or adding more episodes, it'll never be completely possible to fix all the issues, but making the lines a little more "user friendly" couldn't hurt.
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Oct 10, 2015 18:59
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I didn't watch the Gainer dub, but kinda agree with the subs being hard to parse. I ended up rewatching the first few episodes because the pacing and dialogue felt very breakneck and odd, though after those few it was easy to grasp things. I dunno if it was a consequence of watching it after only seeing early Tomino Gundams. Maybe his non-Gundams are more indicative of rough pacing/lines?
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Oct 10, 2015 19:14
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dogsicle posted:I didn't watch the Gainer dub, but kinda agree with the subs being hard to parse. I ended up rewatching the first few episodes because the pacing and dialogue felt very breakneck and odd, though after those few it was easy to grasp things. I dunno if it was a consequence of watching it after only seeing early Tomino Gundams. Maybe his non-Gundams are more indicative of rough pacing/lines? They're certainly representative of something! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWru5o07j_I
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Oct 10, 2015 19:19
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G-Reco literally cuts away from an expositionary argument to show a robot getting blown up in like, episode 3. It's great, it explains its setting in a kinda slow but steady way where people are just talking about a country or a concept or whatever and the viewer just slowly builds their comprehension of what's actually being talked about as the show goes on, which is a method I really enjoyed. IBO is definitely paced better, which makes for an easier watch. It's also (so far) different to G-Reco in that G-Reco feels very influenced by Japanese culturally-specific things like militarisation and the prospect of remilitisation, regional tensions with China and Korea, and stuff like Kunlata and Burakumin. IBO seems to be more about colonialism and the conditions in economically deprived countries, which is something with a more global relevance at the moment.
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Oct 10, 2015 19:19
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 I wonder if Nils' goal is to someday create an Astray with parts from every single frame.  Also this would have made Try's final battle 1000x better.  EDIT: Ahaha, Mao's upgrade.  It looks like just a Full Cloth with a Shot Lancer and the shield from the Skull Weapon Set,  but the cape actually unfolds to reveal the hidden subarms that make up the rest of the Skull Weapon Set. This might actually be a reference to the Mantle mode of the RD X1 FC. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Oct 10, 2015 |
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Oct 10, 2015 19:54
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BlitzBlast posted:It looks like just a Full Cloth with a Shot Lancer and the shield from the Skull Weapon Set, Hell yes.
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Oct 10, 2015 20:06
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ImpAtom posted:I literally can't figure out what you mean. I understand G-Reco but I watched Gainer subbed and I don't know what would be particularly confusing there. I'll be honest, I don't really remember the exact dialogue since it was years ago that I watched Gainer so I can't give you examples. I just distinctively remember finding it more obtuse than Victory Gundam until episode 5 or so, when Yassaba leaves.
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Oct 10, 2015 21:56
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The first couple episodes are a little disorienting because you get just pitched right into the story, but that's on purpose, it's not a problem
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Oct 10, 2015 21:57
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But that's what OZC is saying, a work needs to engage its audience before it loses them. You may have something great to say but it doesn't matter if there is no one around to hear it. It being disorienting 'by design' does not change that it is disorienting. I appreciate that Tomino expects the audience to keep up, but ironically the people who can't keep up are the ones who would benefit from what his series have to say the most, so I can't really say being disorienting is a good thing even if it is intended. We can put some of the blame on short attention spans but the rest of the blame is pretty much on Tomino for writing in a pretty oblique way.
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Oct 10, 2015 22:32
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Anime pacing is bad, mecha-anime pacing is loving glacial and if you genuinely think that g-reco was "breakneck" and "explained nothing" then your brain is damaged from watching nothing but technically poor media for an excessively long period
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Oct 10, 2015 22:42
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mr. stefan posted:Anime pacing is bad, mecha-anime pacing is loving glacial and if you genuinely think that g-reco was "breakneck" and "explained nothing" then your brain is damaged from watching nothing but technically poor media for an excessively long period I too enjoy generalizing an entire media and insulting others for having different opinions about a single show.
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Oct 10, 2015 22:45
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Droyer posted:I too enjoy posting on the internet.
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Oct 10, 2015 22:49
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There's nothing inherently good or bad about anime pacing since it's all a factor of the variety of folks making it.
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Oct 10, 2015 22:52
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Speaking of Reco, how successful was it? I think I recall it doing pretty well, or at least well beyond Bandai's low expectations.
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Oct 10, 2015 22:58
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boom boom boom posted:I watched Overman King Gainer subbed and loved it and don't know what you're talking about. In my experience it wasn't that the plot was hard to follow, but that whoever translated the dialogue did a poor job, and while it might be proper English, it's not really grammatical. The dub is a lot better about this since they had to have people actually speak it.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:03
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mr. stefan posted:Anime pacing is bad, mecha-anime pacing is loving glacial and if you genuinely think that g-reco was "breakneck" and "explained nothing" then your brain is damaged from watching nothing but technically poor media for an excessively long period Forget it Stefan, it's Gunpla-town. Their brains are too shellacked from applying layer after layer of glosscoat to some twisted mess of an Astray variant to take note of what's on display.
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Oct 11, 2015 05:10
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mr. stefan posted:Anime pacing is bad, mecha-anime pacing is loving glacial and if you genuinely think that g-reco was "breakneck" and "explained nothing" then your brain is damaged from watching nothing but technically poor media for an excessively long period Have you watched many popular Netflix or HBO series? They're paced about the same as your average 12-24 episode mecha anime and have almost as much exposition(though are typically written far better). Most blockbuster action or comedy or whatever movies that people go see also spoonfeeds everything necessary to know about the plot/setting/characters directly to the audience. Audiences of a lot of popular media are generally used to having stuff spoonfed to them and explained clearly and are uncomfortable or unused to it when a show doesn't do that. It's not those people being stupid, it's that being used to a specific variety of storytelling means that suddenly being exposed to a completely different type makes that different type come off as really weird. People who watch Gundam shows are used to Gundam shows and G-Reco is entirely unlike any Gundam show since Turn A, which was fifteen years ago.
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Oct 11, 2015 06:29
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Edit: Nothing to see here.
Caros fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 07:47
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Every single one of those things is explained. Like not even "well, if you remember one line" explained but actually literally explained in no unquestioned detailed onscreen. Edit: With the exception of Luin's thing which has to be largely inferred, which does kind of suck. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 08:16
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Caros posted:I'd argue that the problem with G-reco isn't that it doesn't spoonfeed you. If you had G-Reco spoonfeeding you the plot it still wouldn't make any sense. Bellri would still be defecting for no reason, he'd be killing his own instructors for no reason, they'd go to space for no reason, then to that other part of space for little to no reason (magic mcguffan!) they'd get back to the earth sphere to see everyone fighting for undefined goals and then the final fight would happen as it did with everyone eventually giving up because why not. Luin would still go from getting out of his wrecked mobile suit shrieking in anger at bellri to calmly drinking tea and being mellow the next time we see him, Klim Nick would still go full on 9/11 on his father killing hundreds or thousands as he lands a spaceship on a political rally... yeah. Bellri defected because he wanted to learn what was going on. There's even several conversations with Noredo about them getting the hell out of Dodge at the first chance they have. Killing his instructor was pure self-defense (He had no way of telling them "Hey, it's me controlling this drat thing"), and only learned it was his instructor when his mech touched the Gundam. They go to space to find out where the Photon Batteries come from, only to learn what they thought was the apex of human civilization was a pit-stop between Earth and Venus, so off they went to Venus to learn the truth  . The final fight is chasing down the Capital Army parading about with their new toys, trying to put a stop to them before they do some real damage. Klim Nick's father was a nigh-insane warmonger, and it's simply a target of opportunity to take out him and a bunch of his supporters.
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Oct 11, 2015 08:47
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Personally, I think the only tough part to swallow about G-Reco is how absurdly relaxed everyone is about everything. Once you get the reason why (or just that the entire show is Tomino going "NO JAPAN SHOULD NOT RE-MILITARIZE STOP"), everything clicks.
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Oct 11, 2015 09:07
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Edit: tl;dr I think G-Reco is poo poo and I don't feel like arguing about it with people for the millionth time. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 11, 2015 09:11
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Caros posted:I disagree. I could go off on every point there but its late and I'll bring up just one. No you couldn't. Every single thing explained there is directly explained onscreen. You chose the last because it is the only one that isn't "basic fact of plot explained onscreen." You do this every time. You dislike the show and so you try to exaggerate your complaints in a way that makes you look stupid, not the show. You exaggerate your complaints to the point you complain about things which are explained unambiguously onscreen by multiple characters. I don't think you're actually that dumb but instead you super-exaggerate about what you don't understand. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 09:16
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Edit: gently caress arguing about G-Reco.
Caros fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 09:19
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Caros posted:gently caress you too I suppose. I'm not having this conversation with you for the upteenth time and I'm certainly not going to have it when your retort boils down to "You're not dumb, you just don't understand" which is the most backhanded bullshit I've seen in a while. Are you seriously going to pull the "you're insulting to me" thing after saying "I can actually enjoy the show if I just flick the critical thinking part of my brain to off whenever I watch it" as if everyone else who watched the show and enjoyed it just isn't capable of critical thought? You listed a large number of complaints and someone who isn't me pointed out how each of those plot points are explained onscreen. You chose to ignore that and instead focus on a thirty second scene in the last episode which you still misrepresented. (It's a cartoonish and silly scene but they go out of their way to show people getting out of the way. Even Klim's dad gets out of the way and is crushed under a statue instead.) G-Reco is far from a flawless show but I'd must rather hear people address the actual writing instead of going "(thing explained onscreen) wasn't explained!" Edit: And it isn't remotely realistic, don't get me wrong there, but I've never expected much in terms of realism from Gundam, especially Tomino Gundam. Caros posted:I understand G-Reco just fine. You literally just wrote a thing about how you don't understand the show and how it makes no sense. 
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 09:33
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Caros posted:You're not wrong. I can actually enjoy the show if I just flick the critical thinking part of my brain to off whenever I watch it. G-Reco can be a good show, you just have to go into it accepting that everyone is either a high functioning brain damage survivor or simply high as gently caress. I mean my criticism of the Crescent Ship is non-existent once I remember that in the world of G-Reco people can't be bothered to give a gently caress about something as silly as a high profile assassination and mass murder by a foreign power. People not understanding assassination and mass-murder is the whole point. BlitzBlast even explained the same thing in the post you quoted. They have no psychological concept of real warfare and haven't for centuries. They're all still at the WW1/British Colonial level where it seems like jolly good fun to go marching off and give those drat foreigners a good seeing-too with their shiny modern machines  .
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Oct 11, 2015 09:53
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Neddy Seagoon posted:People not understanding assassination and mass-murder is the whole point. BlitzBlast even explained the same thing in the post you quoted. They have no psychological concept of real warfare and haven't for centuries. They're all still at the WW1/British Colonial level where it seems like jolly good fun to go marching off and give those drat foreigners a good seeing-too with their shiny modern machines Wasn't the point for them to grow out of that a little by the end, though?
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Oct 11, 2015 10:05
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