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I would never have guessed that. Thanks!
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Apr 7, 2013 21:33
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Doh004 posted:Holy poo poo, there's a crumb! if it flattened out after your second rise in a dutch oven it sounds like it was too hot.
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Apr 8, 2013 00:34
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Yeah, that is a really pretty whole wheat loaf. Good job, it looks delicious.
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May 6, 2013 23:39
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Wet hands definitely helps, what I usually do is use my chef's knife as a bench knife and do a really good stretch and fold. I will also knead with a tool like a wooden spoon or spatula (blasphemy!) and use it to fold and turn the dough in a bowl if I'm lazy that day and don't feel like getting sticky or cleaning counters. A bench knife is a really good idea though, you could probably get one at the dollar store and it makes cleaning dough off counters so much less horrible.
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May 12, 2013 01:53
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Rurutia posted:Sometimes I feel like I bake in a different dimension than everyone else. I recently made The Doctor's eggy loaf recipe: I have a weird feeling you must have missed a measurement somewhere. This dough is practically cake batter until the fifth cup of flour is added, any less than eight cups and it would be extremely sticky, something to fold rather than knead. I have screwed it up before by not measuring out my milk properly, I've also noticed that if you do all the eggs and milk cold out of the fridge it's a pain to knead. I have a hard time believing it was cold ingredients though, hard by the fifth cup of flour just doesn't seem possible.
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May 14, 2013 02:26
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I don't know much about no-knead dough since I've never made anything that didn't require at least a stretch and fold but if the dough is high hydration it will not hold much of a shape without something to keep it in place. If you're shaping a really loose dough a good technique is to form it into a boule or other simple shape and work the ends underneath with some pulling to create surface tension, then when you do your final rise you can tip it into the bowl/banette whatever with the seam-side up so that you can just dump it onto a baking sheet/pizza stone/whatever seam-side down after the oven is heated up and it tends to rise up instead of out and hold a good shape. I made a crazy rosemary boule yesterday with whole wheat flour and water and according to this calculator http://joshuacronemeyer.github.io/Flour-and-Water/ it's like 120% hydration...I didn't use a recipe at all (except to kind of mimic the proofing schedule from weekend bakery baguettes without a poolish) and it came out amazingly, I'm really glad I took a picture. I made it to bring to my brother who never eats properly and he just tore off chunks and ate half in front of me... 120% (???) hydration rosemary boule with dirty cup measurements 4 cups whole wheat flour 2 1/2 cups warm water 1 tbsp sugar 1/2 tbsp yeast 1 tbsp rosemary (I used dried leaves and ground them into a powder) 1 tsp salt black pepper (however much you like) proof 1/2 tbsp yeast in 1/2 cup of the warm water with your 1 tbsp sugar. Pour your 2 cups of warm water into a mixing bowl, once the yeast is proofed mix all the liquid together and add your flour. Mix until it's a shaggy mass, then allow to autolyse (rise while covered in a warm spot) for 1/2 hour. After 1/2 an hour, mix your rosemary, salt and pepper into the dough either in the mixing bowl or by rubbing it over the surface of the dough during the initial stretch and fold. 1st stretch and fold - just do the envelope fold a bunch of times until you feel it getting gluteny (resisting more) rest for ten minutes, do one envelope fold, rest ten minutes. Do one envelope fold every ten minutes three more times. Pre-heat your oven to 400f. Shape the dough into a boule and toss it into a well-floured or totally non-stick bowl/banette/whatever and let it rise for an hour with the seam-side (where you pulled the ends together) up, after an hour tip it onto your pizza stone/baking sheet and bake for 45 minutes, seam-side down. - Tips: I did not use any extra flour at all until it was time to shape it into a boule. I kept a bowl of cool water by me and kept my hands wet, also used a chef's knife as a scraper for the first pull off the counter-top. I floured my counter top and the top of the dough during my final shaping into a boule just so I could get it dry enough on the outside to hold a shape before going into the rising bowl. You could probably really improve this recipe by mixing together 50% of the flour, 1 1/2 cups of the water and 50% of the yeast the night before and leaving it in the fridge (making a poolish), then adding the rest of the flour and water (after proofing the rest of the yeast) the next day. e: pics!  and bonus rosemary boule next to my weekly loaves 
The Doctor fucked around with this message at 18:43 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 18:04
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Those are lovely! You should definitely make pizza (and give us pictures of it).
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May 24, 2013 19:30
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contrapants posted:You're not supposed to, but my dough wasn't coming together at all. I kneaded it for 15 minutes, and it was still a thick goop that was gluing itself to my counter. It was probably because I subbed in some wheat flour where I would normally have used all white. This is the first wheat loaf I've made. It's not really supposed to come together like a normal dough, the recipe is very high hydration and adding any flour makes a completely different outcome. High hydration doughs are not meant to be conventionally kneaded, they will always stick to your counter and be a thick goop. He makes it look easy only because he is an expert. If you can't use your hands to stretch and fold the dough, keep scraping it off the counter and stretching it with a bench or chef's knife. It is true that it is easier to use the method he is using with an all-white dough though which may be why yours was stickier. I make high hydration whole wheat breads often and they are always gluey and take longer to become "plumb". Stick with the recipe and you will have success.
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Jun 5, 2013 23:41
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Those look unbelievable.
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Jun 8, 2013 21:48
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oneliquidninja posted:Sorry, this is back from page three. You just said you only let it rise for an hour and a half, then you punched it down, then you baked it. If this is really what you did, this is your mistake. You can't punch bread down and then put it in the oven - you just knocked all the air out. You punch it down and then you rise it again for another hour or until it doubles in size.
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Jul 7, 2013 02:19
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I'm no pro but in my experience rye will never get the height that pure wheat does. It's also a possibility that your sourdough is still young and needs more time to develop. e: Also I made those King Arthur buns (except with milk and whole wheat so...completely different) and they were delicious. I doubled the recipe to have extra, the little sweetness from the sugar is nice.
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Aug 17, 2013 22:59
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unixbeard, I have to disagree with you really hard. High hydration doughs make some of the best bread out there and you can get a massive rise from it (better than a lower hydration) if you know how to tuck your edges properly during the shaping process before the final rise. Don't ruin a good recipe by just throwing in handfuls of flour, learn how to properly make a high hydration bread instead.
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Aug 19, 2013 22:17
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I would say the same, that's a beautiful bread!
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Aug 28, 2013 02:15
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Thumposaurus posted:I meant this part specifically smartass because I'm genuinely curious about it since I'm the bread baker for a restaurant. I'm pretty sure SlayVus just assumed you were trolling him/her and didn't re-read the post to see that you were actually referring to the other thread he/she posted about.
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Aug 29, 2013 14:53
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Does it happen after you have taken it out of the oven, and do you brush it with anything after you've baked it? If you're turning it upside down, the weight of the bread is going to collapse the top any way, if there's any space between the crust and the crumb. If you're brushing it with oil, it will absorb the oil and become soft. It may also become soft if you leave it in a humid spot.
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Sep 8, 2013 02:58
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Spikes32 posted:I don't brush it, and this happens whether i invert it or not. I'm thinking it may be related to over proofing, but thinking back its also happened to bread I know isn't or is under proofed. Its a standard med hydration white bread, cooked in a dutch oven at 500 degrees F for 12 minutes covered with steam, then at 425 for another 45. I take it out of the oven and place it on the rack and hear the crust crackling as it cools. Then inevitably the crust kinda falls in over the whole bread in almost a pentagon shape. Wish I had a picture I could show you. I've been making this bread and having this happen fairly frequently for over a year now. Otherwise though its an amazing french loaf. Sounds weird! I have never experienced having my crust collapse. Post your recipe? Maybe it has something to do with being cooked in a dutch oven? I honestly have no idea but maybe what happens is that because you bake your bread with a lot of steam, it ends up under the crust, and then as you cool the loaf, the steam escapes, which leaves a hollow underneath, and simultaneously softens your crust, allowing it to collapse.
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Sep 8, 2013 14:06
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Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with my starter but it barely tastes sour at all any more. I've been keeping it in the fridge and I don't even bother feeding it once a week. I take it out occasionally, scrape off the nasty, feed it, leave it on the counter overnight, feed it again and put it back in the fridge.
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Sep 13, 2013 22:36
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Yeah, it seems to be really difficult to kill these things once they really get going. I've made a ton of bread out of this starter and I don't really worry about it in there. Let us know how your bread comes out, therattle! e: but that white mould and cheese smell sounds nasty. Mine just gets a purple layer on top and smells like booze. I scrape it off and there's a perfect starter underneath.
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Sep 13, 2013 22:42
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Weird stuff on top is a normal part of leaving the starter for a long time (most people say you're not really supposed to). I scrape off the gross stuff because...it's gross. I don't really know what it is except that the liquid is hooch and for some reason it turns the top of my starter purple. Someone come in the thread and talk some science here. I just scrape it because I don't want a purple boozey starter.
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Sep 14, 2013 02:25
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Thanks! Now it makes more sense. Yeah, my boyfriend has stirred it back in before and we didn't have any problems, I just prefer not to given the ick factor, but if it's really benign maybe I won't bother in the future.
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Sep 14, 2013 15:13
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There are a lot of good points brought up here but an important thing to note is that if your yeast is good, you have a warm (but not hot) environment and you are proofing your dough for an adequate amount of time, it is virtually impossible to stop dough from rising. Your bread will rise even if you never knead it at all. You can literally stir it into a batter and leave it, it will still rise. Case in point, 80% hydration baguettes. I have forgotten this dough on the counter in the first ten minute rest period before ever stretching and it happily increased it`s size by almost double in about a half an hour. Even if your dough has no tension at all and is a giant, flat glob when you throw it into the oven, it will still rise. Regardless of whether your dough swells out or upward, it`s rising. You will not have a dense crumb if you have sufficiently proofed your dough and put it into a hot oven. Before worrying about more complex things like tension, techniques for a specific texture, etc., get the basics down. All you need to make bread rise is: Flour water yeast/starter In almost any combination, as long as it's not too stiff to be kneaded or stretched (it can be about as wet as you can imagine and give you an excellent loaf of bread, picture cake batter). A nice system to guarantee from the start that you will have success is to wake up your yeast. It's been said here a million times. Add your yeast to a small portion of warm water (say 1/2 cup of water for about a tbsp of yeast, someone else might have something better) and some sugar. Give it ten minutes to start bubbling. You can literally see the yeast come to life in the water if you watch it. If nothing happens, your yeast is dead. Nothing will ever happen, throw it away, get new yeast. If your yeast comes to life, add it to the rest of your liquid for the recipe and then mix that liquid into the flour, knead it into a dough, work it for a while, then set it aside until it's doubled in size. Once it's doubled, knock it down (just knock the air out, don't knead it to death), shape it, and then rise it AGAIN until it is doubled in size AGAIN. Do not knock the air out of your dough and then put it in the oven, your result will be junk. So here are some basics. Use warm ingredients Rise your bread in a warm environment (around 21 degrees Celsius or something) Do a double rise (rise once, knock down, rise again) Ignore time specifications and simply double in size unless you are making an advanced recipe Put the bread into a HOT oven Wake up your yeast in a happy place (warm water and sugar)
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Sep 26, 2013 02:29
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It's been explained to me that the purpose of kneading is for encouraging the formation of strands of gluten in the dough but that's the extent of my knowledge.
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Oct 6, 2013 23:12
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You could also consider experimenting with adding applesauce to your dough while it's still batter-y to give it an extra apple flavour, or even apple juice, although maybe that would be too acidic. I'm also voting for cayenne pepper instead of flakes, although adding flakes for appearance might be nice also. Test out your pepper to make sure it's spicy too, since sometimes the spice itself is just a dud.
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Oct 15, 2013 03:33
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It sounds like, in the first recipe at least, it was way too dry. Online recipes are often lovely. If you had just used that amount of flour and water it would have been a 36% hydration dough (actually slightly less because the calculator I'm using accounts for at least 10g of a wet starter). The "average" sandwich loaf is around 60-65% hydration, so yours is already way below average. Add a bunch of cocoa and other dry ingredients and the only result possible is a brick. Even your second recipe is too dry. Try using about 600g of water in your first recipe. With just flour that's a 75% hydration but it should even out with the addition of the cocoa and sugar (I think). http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22944/dough-hydration-calculator
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Oct 24, 2013 14:22
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Yeah it's a great little tool. I never cared about hydration when I first started baking but getting into really nice breads it's totally needed. Volume does suck also but if you're really stuck using it you can just convert the ingredients to grams online and get a pretty decent approximation.
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Oct 24, 2013 16:11
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IDateBois posted:I probably dont understand, but how is 'converting ingredients to grams' compatible with using volume as an approximate in general, and in comparison to using the empirical system in specific? google "how many grams is a cup of water". Most common baking ingredients have conversions online.
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Oct 24, 2013 19:26
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I use a scale, but I know what it's like to legitimately not be able to afford the expense. Conversions are fine for the average baker until a scale can be acquired. e: Also, if you're making a totally average sandwich loaf and you can't get it to work out, scales are not the problem, the recipe or the person following it is the problem. When someone complains that a recipe has failed them, the problem is never or extemely rarely "I should have weighed it" until you start getting into serious recipes with features reliant on accuracy. The problem is almost always: terrible recipe, substituted/forgotten ingredients, inadequate proofing, cold oven, cold rise, etc. All other things being equal, in a simple recipe, volume/weight is inconsequential. This isn't to argue that measuring by weight is not vastly superior to any other method, because it is, once you actually need to care about it. The Doctor fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Oct 24, 2013 |
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Oct 24, 2013 19:49
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Nice!! That looks delicious.
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Oct 29, 2013 15:01
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TenKindsOfCrazy posted:OK, I made the white batter bread from that page today. Here are the results: You can get a less cake-y consistency with a really wet recipe by increasing your proofing time, cooking at a slightly higher heat, and increasing cooking time by maybe 10 minutes or so to cook off some of the moisture. e: that being said I'm loving starving right now and I would slice that bread-cake in half, slather it in butter and eat the entire thing.
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Oct 31, 2013 02:00
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TenKindsOfCrazy posted:In thinking about it more I bet the batter bread would work excellently for the chocolate bread conversion I want to do. This loaf tastes amazing, there is no question! Do it. Do it for us!
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Oct 31, 2013 21:45
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TenKindsOfCrazy posted:Well, The Doctor, here it is! Look my bread: This is awesome, I want that chocolate bread so much. Hazelnut is my favourite nut to have in everything - cake, chocolate, pastry, all things in life worth dying for can be enhanced with hazelnuts.
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Nov 2, 2013 15:11
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Also, I woke up my starter yesterday, it's been sitting in the fridge for...a long time. I fed it last night but it doesn't seem to be quite awake yet. I have a tendency to leave it in the fridge for ages without feeding it but it always seems to recover. The first picture here is the layer of hooch which was on top when I took it out, I poured that off and, as usual, underneath the top layer is the healthy happy starter. 
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Nov 2, 2013 15:25
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 he is awake I transferred my starter to another container since the other one was getting pretty gross and I didn't trust it not to grow mould on the counter top. Sourdough tomorrow! I think this starter is close to five months old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXGxyEOQdUg
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Nov 3, 2013 02:07
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Just put together the starter for these no knead soft sourdough rolls from the weekend bakery. That will hang out in my fridge overnight and chill on my counter top for about 12 hours tomorrow. My boyfriend is on a mission to get me honey, yogurt and butter. http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/no-knead-soft-sourdough-rolls/ Also making this "levain", except mine will be all whole wheat. http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/our-favorite-whole-wheat-levain-loaf/ This is a cool link with some info on what a "levain" is...the internet seems to be telling me that my starters are all technically "desem", since sourdough is rye, levain is white flour, and desem is wholewheat flour. After tonight I will be phasing half my "desem" into sourdough since I'm going to feed it rye, but I will keep my desem (whole wheat starter) as well.
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Nov 4, 2013 00:45
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Made my sourdough rolls last night! They were a success in that they were delicious, but only really a partial success. The 25 minute cooking time essentially turned into 40 minutes and still wasn't enough, probably because I used all whole wheat flour and my rolls came out slightly more dense than the original recipe. They also probably didn't rise enough on the last proofing after shaping and given it was getting on for past 1 am I had to go to bed. The flavour is great though!
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Nov 5, 2013 14:51
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REAL LIVE BRIOCHE. How did it turn out? I think it's time for me to pick up some butter and make brioche in the very near future. I made a couple of loaves last night that both turned out great. obligatory rosemary boule, no crumb shot but as I mentioned in IRC last night it shot right up and turned out great, you can see the tension lines around the outside from where the seam was pulled to the bottom and it literally blew up like a balloon. Part of me thinks this was made possible by sliding it directly onto a hot pizza stone.  Second was a whole wheat and rye chocolate loaf that turned out great. I wrote some lovely instructions for facebook, if you really want to make this and can't understand what I've written I'll write something more clear. Whole wheat and rye chocolate loaf: 2 cups whole wheat flour, 1 cup rye flour, half a cup of sugar, 5 tbsps cocoa. Mix 1/2 cup warm water + 1/2 tbsp yeast + 1 tbsp sugar, let sit 5 minutes. Warm about a cup of whole milk and mix with yeast mixture, slowly add to dry ingredients. Incorporate thoroughly and add small amounts of flour if necessary to maintain a sticky, stretchy, tacky dough. Cover and rise at about 22 degrees one hour, punch down, stretch and fold, form into a tight boule (a round ball) by pulling the dough tight across the surface and making a seam at the bottom. Rise another hour. Heat oven to 350, when bread has risen, put into hot oven for 50 minutes, cool on rack for at least an hour. Some goon suggested this would work with honey instead of sugar last night, honey would definitely be delicious in place, and this would definitely work with the addition of nuts (I'm thinking hazelnuts) and dried berries. 
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Jan 1, 2014 21:09
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Jeez, thanks for the tidy re-write, well done. The rising times are one hour for the first rise and one hour for the second rise. There is no rhyme or reason to it, I'm just doing the same rise I use for every bread I throw together. I have no idea what tunneling is or what the causes or consequences of uneven crumb are. If there has to be a reason for a long last rise for me it's because I like to guarantee the bread will pop when it goes into the oven. I hate when you punch something down and it doesn't rise when it goes in the oven.
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Jan 1, 2014 22:50
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Le0 posted:Guys, today my bread making didn't go as planned. If your house is cold, that is probably the cause. My house is freezing in the winter so I rise my bread in my bedroom next to the heater. If your temp doesn't hover at at least around 21 degrees celsius your rise will be delayed, much lower and it can sit for hours and not move.
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Jan 27, 2014 13:20
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It's a lot easier to cream butter and sugar by hand if you heat the butter slightly to soften it beforehand.
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Feb 24, 2014 04:12
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Brawnfire posted:I find this confusing. half and half by weight means what it sounds like (though if you were raised measuring by volume like me it would sound weird and confusing) it means an equal weight of both, e.g. 100g of water and 100g of flour.
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Mar 23, 2014 21:44
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