|
There have been a few specific bread threads on GWS, but no general bread thread for a while. I would like to start one, laying out some basics of baking, and then opening it up for questions and comments. I have been baking for about 4 years, started by a bread machine that was a wedding present. I wasn't satisfied with the taste and texture of the bread it produced: it was like a better version of supermarket/mass-produced bread. That led me to no-knead baking (as I am a lazy, lazy man), which I love, and have been working at for a good while now (see the no-knead baking thread here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3460932 However, if I have not remembered to put on a batch of dough, or want to make something at short notice, I also make bread the traditional way, with kneading (sometimes by hand, but mostly using a KitchenAid). I am an enthusiastic amateur, but there are others on this forum who know a lot more than I do, and even some amazing pros like dad., who have taken baking to a whole new level. I am sure that some of what I say isn't 100% correct, and hope that they will put me right. Here are some basics. Basic Ingredients Bread, at its simplest, is made up of four ingredients: 1. Flour. This is usually wheat but can be any number of grains, or other grains plus wheat. Wheat is traditional as it has a high gluten content (11% or higher). Gluten is a protein contained in flour. When exposed to water, gluten, which is kinked, starts to straighten. It then needs some motion to stimulate that process (the yeast expanding in no-knead accomplishes this; with regular kneading, the kneading does it, as well as help the flour absorb the water). The straightened gluten strands are then able to trap gas, which allows the bread to rise. This explains it better than I possibly could: http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/06/the-food-lab-the-science-of-no-knead-dough.html There are many different types of flour. If you are starting out, just begin with ordinary strong white (or bread) flour. The "strong" and "bread" descriptors indicate the higher gluten content. Good ingredients matter. I am in the UK and like flour from Shipton Mill; Dove's Farm is pretty good for a more widely-available flour, as are certain own-brands like Waitrose. I believe that in the US King Arthur is good. 2. Yeast. This is the raising agent. The complex blend of yeasts and bacteria consume sugars in the bread and generate various acids and alcohols (which add flavour), and gas (CO2), which allows the rise. Sourdough starters are specific varietals or combinations of yeasts which are living in a dough, as opposed to yeasts which you can buy in various forms. With time, the different by-products of the fermentation process increase in strength and complexity, which is why bread made with a sourdough starter will taste better than one made with ordinary yeast, and why a no-knead will have a better flavour than a bread made with just yeast, kneading, rising and baking. As a rule, longer fermentation leads to better flavour. 3. Liquid, usually water but can be buttermilk, whey, yoghurt, etc, or a combination. More liquid leads to an airier loaf, but a trickier dough to work. Some flours, like wholemeal, require more water than white bread flour does. 4. Salt. A bit of salt is crucial for flavour. Technique The simplest way of making bread (with kneading) generally follows this template: 1. Dry ingredients are combined. (Note: where possible, always weigh ingredients, rather than use volume). 2. Wet ingredients are added and stirred in until a dough is formed. 3. The bread is kneaded until it starts developing a structure. By hand this takes 8-10 minutes, and no special technique is needed. You'll feel it change from a sticky mass to a more coherent, smooth lump of dough. In a mixer with a dough hook it takes about 2-3 minutes on a low speed. When the dough is stretched you will see that strands of gluten have developed. 4. The dough is covered and is allowed to rest and rise ("prove") until roughly doubled in size. Yeast is very sensitive to temperature, so this might take 45 mins (warm), it might take 2.5 hours (cool). 5. The dough is "knocked back" - this allows for gasses and temperature to be evened out, and to help realign the gluten. Folding accomplishes these goals well. 6. The folded dough is shaped, then covered again to rise. Put your oven on. 7. When roughly doubled again, it is ready to bake. A simple rule of thumb for whether it has risen too much (over-proofed), or too little (under-proofed), is to stick your finger in it. If it springs back quickly, it has some rising still to go. If the indentation remains, you've left it too long - bake quickly! If it springs back slowly, you're good to go. 8. Slash your dough. This allows the oven rise (oven spring) to affect the bread in a controlled way, so the crust doesn't split messily. I find that a good serrated bread knife works much better than a custom lame, razor blade, or scalpel. 9. Bake your bread. Bread usually takes a high temperature (230C/445F), and time varies depending on size. Once done, the base of the loaf should sound hollow when tapped. 10. Cool. Important! Don't tear into your bread immediately, tempting as it is. This will allow steam to escape, and will probably also give you a stomach ache. Allow at least 30 mins. The Ratio Many recipes and discussions use ratios to discuss ingredients, especially hydration (level of liquid). This is usually expressed as a percentage of the flour used. For example, if one has a loaf with 500g flour, 300ml (or 300g) of water would equate to a hydration level of 60%. My standard loaf (if there is such a thing) is a no-knead with about 30% white spelt flour and 70% unbleached organic white bread flour (both from Shipton Mill), with 1/4 tsp yeast, 1 tsp salt, about 65% hydration, and I also add in some sourdough starter for additional flavour. I bake for 40 minutes in a 230C oven in one of these: http://bakerybits.co.uk/La-Cloche-Baking-Dome-P2026497.aspx which has hugely improved my bread's oven spring and appearance. There is an infinite amount of variation in baking: different flours, techniques, shapes, recipes, additional ingredients - which makes baking so satisfying. In my experience, I have never really had a real disaster when experimenting, provided that some basic common sense was used and the general technique (whether regular or no-knead) applied. Even if you do screw up, ingredients tend to be cheap anyway. There are a lot of resources on the web. King Arthur has some good recipes (e.g., blitz focaccia, very easy, and this excellent no-knead oats bread: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/no-knead-oat-bread-recipe). Other forums like The Fresh Loaf are also useful. So, goons, have at it! Post your bread questions, experiences, success stories, disasters - as long as its about bread! As a starter, here are some loaves I've made: Basic white no-knead. I think this is the King Arthur oats recipe. Everyone screws up a bit sometimes: Rosh Hashonah challah, made with too much liquid so that they spread badly and were impossible to shape. (They tasted pretty good though). My standard white/spelt loaf with a different slash pattern.
|
# ¿ Oct 10, 2012 11:58 |
|
|
# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 06:56 |
|
Uh, guys, I don't think he/she was being serious. At least, I hope not. Baked a loaf tonight and the house smells wonderful.
|
# ¿ Oct 10, 2012 21:59 |
|
Otm Shank posted:I asked this in the general thread but maybe I'll get more tips here: pim01 posted:Any opinions on bread making machines? My little white Panasonic box has been great for making sure there's nice fresh bread during the week, even when the working days run to stupid hours and there's hardly time to cook, let alone knead and proof and bake. loki k zen posted:I've been making home bread for a couple months and it's totally edible but has a tendency to be dry and crumbly. That looks like a very low-hydration dough. I'd definitely try more water. You don't buy rice paste: the Internet sez that you make a paste using rice FLOUR, which should be fairly widely available. therattle fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Oct 11, 2012 |
# ¿ Oct 11, 2012 22:35 |
|
FishBulb posted:I make my bread in a loaf pan that I put inside my Dutch oven with a couple ice cubes for steam and oven spring. It's pretty good but the Dutch oven isn't really that tall and sometimes when I have an especially puffy loaf the top of the loaf hits the bottom of the Dutch oven lid. Is there like a long, tall, heavy oval cooking unit anyone knows about? I've seen oval Dutch ovens but I don think they are any taller... http://bakerybits.co.uk/Oblong-Covered-Baker-P2271932.aspx I took an old silicone baking sheet which I cut to size. I sprinkle it lightly with flour before putting my shaped dough onto the baking sheet, which in turn is on a medium board. The dome heats in the oven. Prior to baking I remove from oven and just slide the dough and the sheet into the base of the dome. You don't need ice as it traps the escaping steam.
|
# ¿ Oct 15, 2012 21:40 |
|
The Doctor posted:I'm excited for this thread. I tried to bake bread for for years and could never create anything that wasn't garbage, then I tried again a couple months ago and somehow I can now magically make excellent bread.
|
# ¿ Oct 16, 2012 21:10 |
|
Yet another awesome HH post. Thanks man! Very useful. Slightly different approach to me but same general principles!
|
# ¿ Oct 19, 2012 22:00 |
|
mediaphage posted:Right. Regarding starters, I keep mine in the fridge and feed it every week or so when I bake. I've left it for a couple of months without feeding and it revived. They're more robust than you think. The longer you go without feeding, as a general rule, the more sour. I am imprecise about my measurements and keep it pretty loose and batter-like. I tried the countertop every day feed method, but couldn't take the the hassle and the waste. I know is cheating but I supplement the starter when baking with a bit of yeast for sourdough flavour and guaranteed rise. I am more concerned with a consistent good outcome than the purity of the process. Others are free to differ.
|
# ¿ Oct 22, 2012 08:15 |
|
colonp posted:What's the effect of over-proofing?
|
# ¿ Oct 25, 2012 16:10 |
|
Kathandrion posted:I've made the recipe from that link several times and it might be the best bread I've ever tasted (and I love bread). I struggle with shaping (baguettes are hard!), but I feel like I had no idea what a baguette was supposed to taste like until I made and tasted that bread.
|
# ¿ Oct 30, 2012 22:05 |
|
Enter Char posted:A bit, but the end result was still a pretty dense loaf. That challah looks amazing. I've never heard of a bread-eating cat!
|
# ¿ Oct 31, 2012 11:47 |
|
Enter Char posted:I can't find the recipe I used, but it seems similar to the challah posted here. The recipe I used had a bit less water proportionately. I used wheat flour. Process was mix, knead let rise, knead again and shape.
|
# ¿ Oct 31, 2012 14:45 |
|
Enter Char posted:Whole wheat flour, hand kneaded for 2 minutes each kneading.
|
# ¿ Nov 1, 2012 20:43 |
|
Machine kneading shouldn't take more than 3 minutes or so. Be careful of over-kneading. When you stretch the dough at the beginning and at the end you should be able to discern the difference and the gluten. I'd add the flour pretty quickly so that it all receives a roughly similar kneading time. Are you using a dough hook?
|
# ¿ Nov 3, 2012 21:27 |
|
daggerdragon posted:Yes. However, I never got a dough, it just immediately went to pulled-chicken crumbles. Beating it for another half hour juuuust barely let me squish it hardcore into small loaf-shaped lumps that looks like brains. It looks like bread (and brains), it smells like bread, might as well bake it and see what comes out. I'm fully expecting it to just explode and make a mess in the oven, but who knows.
|
# ¿ Nov 3, 2012 22:56 |
|
Flipperwaldt posted:Sometimes I end up with somewhat leatherish instead of crispy, if that means something to you. Some fine-lookin' breads ITT. therattle fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Nov 4, 2012 |
# ¿ Nov 4, 2012 23:40 |
|
I too done made a bread (my usual no-knead method with about 200g wholemeal and 350g white flour)
|
# ¿ Nov 7, 2012 17:23 |
|
Beo posted:So, I'm a bread newbie and was trying out no knead bread and it's just a sticky mess, the guides say just lightly flour your hands so you don't get dough sticking to it, but my hands always end up goopy as gently caress. I think I would rather just knead it normally. It's rising now I hope it's not a total failure! The dough loosens quite a lot during the first rise, so when I make it I use just enough water to get a fully incorporated dough. if I add too much water, it becomes very slack and sticky and hard to work with. My usual technique is to fold the dough in the bowl a few times with a silicone spatula, then turn it onto a floured silicon baking sheet. I lightly flour the top, and that, combined with the floured base, allows me to safely grip and shape it without it sticking. Sometimes it does stick if I have not properly floured it and/or it is a very wet dough, and I have to start again, but not often. I dust the top with flour and cover with a towel. The flour stops it sticking. The shaped loaf is then transferred onto a smaller baking mat on a board; I slide the dough and mat into the cloche to bake. MrGreenShirt posted:Hah, gently caress towels! For the second rising just flour the poo poo out of the bowl and afterwards peel it out of there with wet hands. A light covering of flour will stop towels sticking! I never out it ONTO a towel though - that sounds like a recipe for disaster - sticky, sticky disaster (and not the good kind). Happy Hat posted:Potato breads are fukken AWESOME! Recipe please! Main wife wants potato bread. I have a problem. My starter has gone bitter. Not sour, bitter (I know the difference!) - so much so that bread made with it is inedible. I had been keeping it in the fridge, feeding about once a week prior to a bake, then removing some starter to use, adding more flour and water to top it up again, and returning to the fridge. Bitter, bitter, bitter. Any ideas why, or how to salvage it?
|
# ¿ Nov 19, 2012 13:30 |
|
TVarmy posted:Anyone familiar with these?
|
# ¿ Nov 19, 2012 20:43 |
|
Not a Step posted:I bought some really cheap saltillo (basically just clay) tiles at Home Depot a few weeks ago for bread baking, and they've worked out pretty well. They were something like $1.50 each and two nicely fill my oven. They're not as nice as a real cloche oven but they've greatly improved my baking. Anyone still cooking on a baking sheet really should hit up the local building supplies store and grab some (unglazed!) ceramic tiles, its a huge leap in baking quality for cheap. Just make sure to thoroughly wash and then season the tiles with olive oil (basically just rub oil into the tile until it stops absorbing it, then bake it for a few hours) before you use them. You should not use olive oil; get something with a higher smoke point. As for slashing, hard to say other than trial and error. About 5mm deep. Number and placement, up to you.
|
# ¿ Nov 20, 2012 23:08 |
|
The Doctor posted:I will have to buy that book.
|
# ¿ Dec 3, 2012 20:48 |
|
Xarb posted:That looks amazing.
|
# ¿ Dec 3, 2012 23:58 |
|
Zahgaegun posted:Just wanted to drop by and say thanks! I started making my own bread right after the thread started. An ex left behind a stone bread pan so I've been using that and it's pretty nice, lucky break.
|
# ¿ Dec 6, 2012 11:45 |
|
mediaphage posted:There's no way you're killing your yeast with salt. If I haven't done it, and I screw up a lot, then I don't think you have. How old is your yeast? Even if it isn't expired, it does seem like there's something wrong with the yeast itself.
|
# ¿ Dec 6, 2012 17:12 |
|
Angstronaut posted:That 80% looks absolutely delicious.
|
# ¿ Dec 10, 2012 19:50 |
|
mediaphage posted:Am I the only one who never measures yeast? I just...pour a bunch in. It's all log growth that you can just figure out when something looks, you know, done.
|
# ¿ Dec 15, 2012 17:18 |
|
Choadmaster posted:My ingredients from King Arthur just arrived (at 10 pm; the UPS guy must be getting a lot of holiday overtime) so I've started work on my first ever batch of bread. I hope the inevitable disaster is tasty.
|
# ¿ Dec 20, 2012 11:33 |
|
Vagueabond posted:For a contrasting opinion, I make yeasted breads three or four times a week, and I get by just fine without a stand mixer. Sure they're nice, but i'm just a student and I enjoy the working-with-my-hands aspect of kneading the dough myself. Plus, counter space.
|
# ¿ Dec 20, 2012 23:40 |
|
Larry Horseplay posted:I have a Cuisinart 7-cup processor and whenever I do any dough-type stuff I'm worried I'm going to burn the motor out; it makes a lower-than-normal sound and seems to struggle a bit.
|
# ¿ Dec 21, 2012 20:25 |
|
catacera posted:Has anyone ever used the Cold-Oven method for making bread? I received a "red wing stoneware bread baker" that came with no recipe but had a note saying "Put in COOL OVEN!!" I've done a lot of the no-kneed breads and I have this wonderful graham flour recipe handed down from my mother-in-law (it's an old Finnish recipe), but nothing that starts with a cool/cold oven.
|
# ¿ Dec 26, 2012 19:16 |
|
Aww, HH, that's awesome. I hope my boy grows up to bake with me. I just made a loaf with some oatmeal (past it's best-by date so it needs using) and some light rye, with about 65% white flour. I've done a similar loaf with wholemeal instead of rye, but I was really surprised by how much denser it is with rye. Tasty though. I think my favourite is still white with spelt.
|
# ¿ Dec 27, 2012 19:37 |
|
Extracting gluten like that from bread dough is basically how you make Vvv thanks! therattle fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Dec 29, 2012 |
# ¿ Dec 29, 2012 13:17 |
|
WhoIsYou posted:It's the January doldrums so work is shut down for the week. I've decided to spend my time making fancy bread. Today I mixed up some challah and made a three tiered loaf. Also, some knotted rolls from the leftover dough. Wow, that looks absolutely amazing. How does it taste?
|
# ¿ Jan 3, 2013 17:31 |
|
Happy Hat posted:Focacce with steeped dried rosemary, the oil from tomato confit, and the tomatoes too... Ah, I've been wanting to make focaccia with durum 00 wheat; fine grind, high protein. I love the idea of using steeped oil in it. Do any of you sift your flour for bread? I do for other baking, but not bread baking.
|
# ¿ Jan 13, 2013 19:55 |
|
Uxzuigal posted:A tiny trick when baking with spelt: Try adding orange juice to help the yeast, a spoonful or so. Also, adding 1 DL of Honey to a "standard" 2 bread dough makes for amazing spelt breads. Thanks. Would this be for a 100% spelt loaf? I often use approx 30% white spelt to white wheat; it's my favourite flour to add to the basic recipe. Haven't noticed a massive impact on the rise from using that amount of spelt. Never actually tried a 100% spelt loaf before but I should.
|
# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 00:22 |
|
Happy Hat posted:Hmm - unless there's a chicken spit... Good luck shaping that!
|
# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 15:21 |
|
Monkahchi posted:Surely it'd be no worse than the kind of bread automatic bread-makers spit out? Has anyone had a bread maker that actually did a good job at turning out bread of varying sorts? Most I've come across are pretty poor. To me bread makers make bread that is a slightly superior and fresh version of supermarket bread (which is not what I wanted for home made bread). It isn't down to bread makers per se, but rather that bread makers do not really allow for a long fermentation, which is where flavour and texture develop. The only time I've used mine in the past year is to make brioche for a bread and butter pudding.
|
# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 23:32 |
|
melon cat posted:I got politely re-directed here from the General Questions thread! Does anyone have a good/recommended recipe for making your own loaf of bread? We're hoping to get into the habit of making our own instead of buying the stuff at the supermarket. Also- what kind of bread pan is best to use? Did you read the OP? If not, do! There is a link to the no-knead bread thread, which I think is a fantastic bread, delicious, and relatively low effort.
|
# ¿ Jan 24, 2013 12:00 |
|
FishBulb posted:My wife bought me a Pullman loaf pan for Christmas and its kinda nifty. It has a lid that slides onto it and bakes essentially square loaves with a very soft crust so its great for sandwhich loaf (which having school aged kids i go through a lot of) It's kinda an odd size so my old loaf recipes don't really "fill" it properly so I've been using the ones that came with the pan with good results but I'm not sure how to make potato bread or sourdough with it. Anyone have any suggestions or e experience with this thing? Can't you just scale up the volume of your doughs to fill it? Measure respective tin volumes using water.
|
# ¿ Jan 24, 2013 16:03 |
|
TychoCelchuuu posted:You will never in your entire life find a better bread for French Toast than challah which is much easier to make than it might appear to be at first. This is true. And you don't need to bother with the braiding.
|
# ¿ Jan 25, 2013 15:27 |
|
|
# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 06:56 |
|
Doh004 posted:Thanks for this. It ended up coming out pretty well, albeit dense. I think that had to do more with my mixing than anything else. I did 2 cups whole wheat and 1 cup white so I probably have to work on that ratio or find better flour. With that much wholemeal your loaf will be quite dense regardless of quality or mixing.
|
# ¿ Feb 10, 2013 15:06 |