Rise to me: The Bread Thread

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therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Doh004 posted:

I'll have to try it out, thanks

Does anyone have any good, hearty whole wheat/grain crusty bread?

I just make my no knead loaf with about 80/20 wholemeal to white, add a bit of oil (maybe 30ml), higher hydration, and toss in some sunflower and pumpkin seeds.

King Arthur has a very good part wholemeal loaf with oats that I can recommend too.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2013 15:45

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 17:39

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Unkempt posted:

I've been making some pretty nice bread but still have one problem. I'm using about 30%wheat - 70%white, 60% hydration, kneading, rising, knocking back once, rising again then proving. I form a loaf then prove on a flat sheet. The problem is, when it's proving it doesn't so much rise as, well, spread into a big bread puddle about 1" thick. Is there anything I should be doing to help it keep its shape more in the proving? I guess I could use a tin, but I don't have one at the moment and like the non-tin bread, but it always turns out... thin.

How do you shape your loaf? Do you pull the dough to create some tension?

# ¿ Feb 12, 2013 21:07

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Unkempt posted:

I've been doing a round one, sort of spinning it with palms underneath to hopefully stretch out the outside, and I've also tried a 'stubby cylinder' from a book which involves flattening into a rectangle, folding a third in then the other third over then rolling up into the cylinder.

edit: this:

It still spreads out. I might try putting it in a bowl, see if that's better.

I use a higher hydration dough and it doesn't spread that much. Grasp some dough from the bottom and pull it up and fold it over. Go all around the loaf, repeating. Then turn the loaf over onto the seam you've created. The pulling motion creates a kind of surface tension that helps the loaf hold its shape.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2013 21:49

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

The Duke of Avon posted:

I think I'd better use a recipe at first, based on certain past cooking experiences. I tend to take things much too far when experimenting. The King Arthur Flour recipe looks reasonably simple, so I'll probably try that. I have a scale; it's one of the few things I do have at the moment (just moved out of a furnished place). Gonna have to pick up a roasting pan.

I think that's prudent. As for kneading, there is no one method or secret to it. Fold, push and rotate works just fine, as do most things which involve applying some pressure and movement to the dough.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2013 22:41

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Manifresh posted:

I got a KitchenAid mixer a couple months back and have been

You could say that you were... dough-hooked :rimshot:

Booties posted:

Any simple recipes for making very high protein bread? I'm talking over 10 g per slice.

Meatloaf.

I'm on fire, I tells ya!

# ¿ Mar 1, 2013 20:17

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Hoyt posted:

I have made The Doctor's sandwich loaf recipe three times, once with just plain white flour, once with all whole wheat flour, and once with 50/50 white/wheat blend.

I've found the wheat to not rise nearly as well, and as a result much denser. Is this simply a characteristic of the wheat flour or could I potentially be doing something else wrong?

I am going to be making it again tonight and thought about taking some pictures just to share

Whole wheat flour will always give a denser loaf than plain white.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2013 20:27

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Farking Bastage posted:

Tried to make some regular old whole wheat bread similar to the recipe on page 3, but added some oatmeal as well.

Pre-rise hydrated

Risen twice, punched down and loafed up.

Done!

Although a lot better than my previous attempts, the crust did not have the chewiness I was going for. I kept a boiling cast iron pan of water in there the whole time as well as spraying the loaves down with water twice in the first 5 minutes.

I can't seem to get this oven to bahave. Still tastes good though.

Looks good but either your oven runs cool or you could do with baking for longer.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2013 08:26

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

The Midniter posted:

Most recipes I see advise to cover the dough tightly with plastic wrap while it's proofing. I have some large Tupperware-type containers - would it be okay if I mixed the dough in one of them, and then put the lid on? Or does it have to be plastic wrap, which I imagine would allow some airflow while the sealed lid would not?

Basically, I just loving [i]hate[/] dealing with plastic wrap.

I used to just cover the bowl but I found that a crust would develop on the dough. Whatever you use, it needs to be in contact with the dough. I think some people use a damp cloth.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2013 15:21

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

meatsaw posted:

I like to use showercaps. The cheap disposable kind you get for free in motel rooms work great, and you can find them in discount stores, sometimes a dozen in a package. I've used (and reused) them for a while.

I also hate plastic wrap.

I've heard of that. Does the elastic help prevent the dough from spreading? Do you oil it?

# ¿ Mar 17, 2013 15:32

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

The Midniter posted:

I made a bread!

It is really really tasty and I'm extremely proud of it.

I used the Serious Eats no-knead recipe and I think my oven might run hot because after taking the lid off of the dutch oven, it recommends baking another 30-45 minutes. I pulled it out at exactly 30 minutes to check and it was just on the cusp of being overdone - the crust is a bit hard, but it's all worth it in the end.

That looks fantastic!

dakana posted:

I'm 23 and have never made bread before. Tonight I decided to change that, so I'm trying to make some pretzel rolls. As far as I can tell the only real difference is that you boil them in a water/baking soda solution before you bake them. I've got my bread rising in my laundry room since it's the warmest place in the house; I'll go in and check it at 7. Hopefully I'm doing things right

I'll take some photos once it comes out.

edit: holy poo poo these are actually really tasty. Maybe slightly chewy, but for a first ever attempt I'm floored.

pretzels-0001 by nick.kneer, on Flickr

pretzels-0002 by nick.kneer, on Flickr

pretzels-0003 by nick.kneer, on Flickr

And so do those! Very good picture quality too.

Now you guys are hooked... you'll see... Soon your cupboards will be full of flours.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2013 16:32

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

yoshesque posted:

Not sure if this should go here, but it's a yeasted bread thing. Seasonally appropriate hot cross buns:

I also made a chocolate batch but no pics yet.

This is an inclusive bread thread - thanks for posting. They look great.

I had vague ambitions of making matzah for Passover but acute tonsillitis has put paid to that.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2013 09:22

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

If I want a softer crumb I add a bit of oil to the dough. I also use a regular technique with kneading, rather than a no-knead.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2013 14:45

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Doh004 posted:

Looks like I didn't form it enough and it got misshappen. Bread doesn't have to look perfect to taste good, right?

How does it taste? Doesn't look like much oven spring either. Whole meal is definitely harder to work with, and takes more liquid. You can absolutely add more water. Recipes should be a guide: if it feels too loose or too stiff, adjust accordingly.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2013 11:10

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

NightConqueror posted:

When I first started baking bread I was super obsessed with following everything to the absolute exact instructions. Over time I learned to use the recipes more as a guideline than a hard-line. I learned to bake using feel - knowing when the dough felt right. In your case if the dough felt too dry, you could have slowly added in water and mixed by hand until it came together as a more hydraded mass.

In short, baking is about loving up a lot and learning and eventually turning out good bread through perseverance.

Totally.

Doh, I almost never use 100% wholewheat unless I want that specific very heavy, dense seeded wholewheat loaf. I normally cut it with at least 20% white and normally do 50/50 if I use wholewheat. That 20% makes a big difference. As you say, though, flour is cheap, so have fun experimenting!

# ¿ Apr 6, 2013 20:07

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Party Plane Jones posted:

Pretty much one of the first things in the book is how ingredients are measured further along in the book: by weight.

Indeed, but weights are measured both in metric (yay!) and Imperial (boo!).

# ¿ Apr 19, 2013 17:43

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

desert diver posted:

I've tried to make bread before but always managed to mess it up somehow. This time I followed this simple no-knead recipe almost exactly, except I let it rise overnight. It worked!

It tastes great for something I made myself with so little effort, but I am not really a fan of white bread generally. What are similarily idiot-proof recipes that results in a little darker bread?

Nice job.

Follow exactly the same method but sub in up to 80% wholewheat flour (or a bit less rye). You might need a bit more water. You'll have a denser loaf but the taste and texture will still be great.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2013 15:04

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

bonne chance posted:

I've been making bread for a while now but I've only just got around to making a sourdough starter. I scored a free copy of Dan Lepard's The Handmade Loaf from work, so followed his method for making a starter. The recipe for this light rye/wholemeal is something I came up with while mucking around in the kitchen.

It's pretty delicious.

That looks amazing, and really light for a rye/wholemeal.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2013 07:23

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Bob Morales posted:

They come out even whiter and pastier. The very first batch of these I made I did not mist or anything.

They taste great, they just look old and nasty. Bake longer? Hotter? Cheat by putting a little sugar in the dough or egg wash? Brush water on the tops?

The bottoms have awesome color.

I'd try hotter.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2013 22:16

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Doh004 posted:

^^^ It feels good finally making the Bread That Doesn't Suck.

In bread news, I picked up both rye and spelt flour. Can I just substitute a % of it into normal recipes? Any suggestions?

Yes. I like adding 30-50% to white. You might need a bit more water. Basic no knead with some spelt is really good.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2013 09:52

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Doh004 posted:

I really like the taste of it! Loaf came out a bit dense but that's because I ran out of white bread flour and used wholemeal/regular white flour. I also get too impatient while waiting for things to rise.

Mmmm, it's got a lovely nuttiness. It'll be a bit denser as it has less gluten.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2013 18:08

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Bob Morales posted:

Went up 25 degrees. Also did the water spray directly on the bread when they went in, and then 5 minutes after. I think I could have left this one in a few more minutes but it came out okay.

(made a mess with cornmeal)

That looks great. Much improved?

# ¿ Apr 29, 2013 16:01

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

SupahCoolX posted:

So in the past two weeks I've made my first two loaves of basic white bread, and have been pretty successful. I'm trying my first no-knead loaf tonight/tomorrow, using the famed NY Times recipe. One question: The standard recipe says 1/4 tsp of instant yeast. I only have active dry yeast. I can't seem to find a good answer on how much ADY to use. The same 1/4 tsp, or should I use more? I'll add it to water before mixing the dough.

I wouldn't worry too much. But I would mix the yeast in warmish water for 15 mins before adding to the dough. As you said...

# ¿ May 11, 2013 21:41

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

I use a kitchenaid. :smug:

I've done hand kneading, and a proper scraper and wet hands makes a huge difference.

# ¿ May 12, 2013 08:19

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Rurutia posted:

Sometimes I feel like I bake in a different dimension than everyone else. I recently made The Doctor's eggy loaf recipe:

4 large eggs
2 cups warm whole milk
1/2 cup warm water
1 tbsp yeast
1 tbsp brown sugar
1 tbsp oil or butter (optional)
1 tsp salt
8 cups whole wheat flour OR 7 cups flour and 1 cup gluten

And the dough was ridiculously hard by 5th cup of whole wheat flour. I stopped adding flour at that point and still ended up having to add another .8 cup of water for it to be kneadable. I let it rise twice, and tossed it into a 350F oven for 30min and it ended up just not tasting very good and from the crumb it looks like it rose some - there're holes... So, I have a few things I might've done wrong:

1) I use the same instant yeast I always have that The Doctor also uses(saf's), but I usually add this directly to the flour as per the instructions on the package. In her post, she proofs it - I thought this actually lowers its yeasting power?
2) How to scoop 1 cup of flour. I use the scoop and level method but maybe my flour was packed particularly tight?

I don't know why I can't bake a loaf simple bread.

Stuff like hydration and rise times depend on ingredients (different flours and yeasts) and environment (eg relative humidity). Start simple!

# ¿ May 13, 2013 18:01

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Totally Reasonable posted:

Pita pile v2:

These came out much better than the last set, which had crispy centers due to hand-flattening. These are soft, fluffy, and awesome with some labneh and za'atar.

Those look amazing. I love how that one top left looks almost inflated.

# ¿ May 20, 2013 19:16

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

NightConqueror posted:

A cutaway of some focaccia I baked today. It's another Reinhart recipie from BBA. He used a gently caress ton of olive oil, but it turns out so beautifully soft and aromatic its hard to disagree with it. I definitely want to make some flat bread pizzas using this.

I've made the KA blitz focaccia which is pretty good given how quick and easy it is. I'd like to try it with 00 flour. If you don't eat it all at once it makes amazing garlic bread: slice it open, fill with butter/garlic/basil/parsley mix, wrap in foil and stick in the oven for a few minutes. Sensational.

# ¿ May 24, 2013 19:21

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

twoot posted:

I've been out of bread action for a few weeks due to kitchen refurbishment. I ended that by making a ~~Tiger~~Giraffe bread and a standard white bloomer. Proved both overnight in the fridge for extra flavour.

The tiger bread is gorgeously soft, tasty and the crust is amazing; the bloomer is for tomorrow.

I'm probably going to tackle some viennoiserie next.

Tiger recipe please! It looks sensational.

# ¿ May 25, 2013 23:25

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Hawkgirl posted:

Okay, neat. I'm trying to make this recipe a little chewier: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/our-favorite-sandwich-bread-recipe so I suppose I'll have to decide between adding more milk, or more water. I was trying to find a recipe that just plain used bread flour, but I suppose that isn't done very often with white sandwich bread. I just kind of want the texture of good sourdough except I don't have any starter yet.

I find that no-knead comes much closer to sourdough than many kneaded breads (unless you are using very long ferments etc) .

# ¿ Sep 8, 2013 19:06

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Kilazar posted:

Would someone with Archives be able to PM me the OP of the no Kneed thread? I forgot to write this all down last time I used it, and would like to make some easy bread this week

I'm pretty sure it's on the first post of this thread.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2013 20:58

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Kilazar posted:

Would someone with Archives be able to PM me the OP of the no Kneed thread? I forgot to write this all down last time I used it, and would like to make some easy bread this week

Here's an email I wrote recently which might help.

500g strong (bread) flour (often 50% white, 50% wholemeal or spelt � spelt and wholemeal reduce the rise to make a denser but more flavourful bread � moister too)
1/4 tsp instant yeast (from sachet or small bag from Dove's Farm)
1 tsp salt (you could probably get away with 1/2 tsp)
330ml water (warm a bit if the weather is cold. use a bit more when using wholemeal flour. Use just enough to make the dough come together, as it loosens as it ferments).
If I want to add seeds (sunflower, sesame and/or flax/linseed) then I do it in this initial mix. You can also add a bit of sugar, oil, butter, honey, malt extract, etc - whatever takes your fancy!

Mix dry ingredients. Add water and mix. Cover with oiled cling film and leave in a warm (not hot) place for �12-16 hours. it doesn't need to be too precise. It can go longer if the temp is cool.

I then fold the dough a few times in the bowl before placing the dough onto a floured surface. Dust top with flour (so it is grippable all over), shape (by going around the dough and pulling from the bottom round to the top to create surface tension on the bottom, then turning over so the seam is on the bottom), and leave to warm and rise for at least 1 hour before baking. When you prod the dough with your finger it should return to form slowly. if it springs back it still needs to proof a bit longer.

You can use a Dutch oven/ casserole, large spring-form baking tin, or silicon baking sheet on baking tray. I flour the bottom well to prevent sticking, and oil and flour the sides (where applicable). Other people have no problem getting their bread out of Corning or Le Creuset containers; I have. If using a casserole-type container heat it beforehand

I slash the top with a very sharp serrated knife before baking. I usually include a bowl of water in the oven (with the oven on normal, not fan, to keep moisture in) � this makes a crispy crust. It goes in at 230C for 35-40 minutes. When the base is tapped and sounds hollow, it is done. Allow to cool for at least 30 mins before cutting.

It sounds complicated but if you start with the basic recipe (mix ingredients, wait, shape, throw in oven, eat) it is really easy � and one can then elaborate from there.

When I buy supermarket-type bread now it tastes like cardboard.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2013 22:11

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Hawkgirl posted:

I saw your reply first so I whipped up a batch on Sunday and baked it today. Yep, that's what I was looking for. It's really delicious. Thanks!

Hurrah! That gladdens me.

Is there a way of having a good sourdough starter that isn't too sour, but doesn't require daily feeding?

# ¿ Sep 12, 2013 13:49

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

FishBulb posted:

I used to keep mine in the fridge and feed it like once a week.

Thanks. I've tried that and it's been quite sour. Any tips? How do you build it prior to baking?

# ¿ Sep 12, 2013 15:31

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

The Doctor posted:

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with my starter but it barely tastes sour at all any more. I've been keeping it in the fridge and I don't even bother feeding it once a week. I take it out occasionally, scrape off the nasty, feed it, leave it on the counter overnight, feed it again and put it back in the fridge.

I've just taken mine out of the fridge after at least a couple of months; fed it earlier and it seems to be bubbling away happily. I think I'll build it for a bake on Sunday. Feed tomorrow morning, maybe tomorrow evening, and set a no-knead on Sunday morn for an evening bake.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 22:39

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

The Doctor posted:

Yeah, it seems to be really difficult to kill these things once they really get going. I've made a ton of bread out of this starter and I don't really worry about it in there.

Let us know how your bread comes out, therattle!

e: but that white mould and cheese smell sounds nasty. Mine just gets a purple layer on top and smells like booze. I scrape it off and there's a perfect starter underneath.

Mine had a layer of dark hooch and smelled pretty vinegary. I drained off the liquid and scraped off the white dimpled top, and underneath seemed good. I'll let you know!

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 23:07

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

The Doctor posted:

There are a lot of good points brought up here but an important thing to note is that if your yeast is good, you have a warm (but not hot) environment and you are proofing your dough for an adequate amount of time, it is virtually impossible to stop dough from rising.

Your bread will rise even if you never knead it at all. You can literally stir it into a batter and leave it, it will still rise. Case in point, 80% hydration baguettes. I have forgotten this dough on the counter in the first ten minute rest period before ever stretching and it happily increased it`s size by almost double in about a half an hour.

Even if your dough has no tension at all and is a giant, flat glob when you throw it into the oven, it will still rise. Regardless of whether your dough swells out or upward, it`s rising. You will not have a dense crumb if you have sufficiently proofed your dough and put it into a hot oven.

Before worrying about more complex things like tension, techniques for a specific texture, etc., get the basics down. All you need to make bread rise is:

Flour
water
yeast/starter

In almost any combination, as long as it's not too stiff to be kneaded or stretched (it can be about as wet as you can imagine and give you an excellent loaf of bread, picture cake batter).

A nice system to guarantee from the start that you will have success is to wake up your yeast. It's been said here a million times. Add your yeast to a small portion of warm water (say 1/2 cup of water for about a tbsp of yeast, someone else might have something better) and some sugar. Give it ten minutes to start bubbling. You can literally see the yeast come to life in the water if you watch it. If nothing happens, your yeast is dead. Nothing will ever happen, throw it away, get new yeast.

If your yeast comes to life, add it to the rest of your liquid for the recipe and then mix that liquid into the flour, knead it into a dough, work it for a while, then set it aside until it's doubled in size. Once it's doubled, knock it down (just knock the air out, don't knead it to death), shape it, and then rise it AGAIN until it is doubled in size AGAIN. Do not knock the air out of your dough and then put it in the oven, your result will be junk.

So here are some basics.

Use warm ingredients
Rise your bread in a warm environment (around 21 degrees Celsius or something)
Do a double rise (rise once, knock down, rise again)
Ignore time specifications and simply double in size unless you are making an advanced recipe
Put the bread into a HOT oven
Wake up your yeast in a happy place (warm water and sugar)

Not that the other posts were wrong, but this person speaks the truth.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2013 11:57

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

angor posted:

Currently 5 hours into the no knead bread recipe. I've covered the bread and put it in a cool place to rise. The plastic wrap I've used to cover it has expanded and is now a tight bubble. Should I prick a small hole in it or just let it be?

Just release the gas and replace it loosely so it can expand.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2013 20:40

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Party Plane Jones posted:

Anybody have a no-knead recipe that they use often? I've done Lahey's a couple times and I'm always underwhelmed at the taste. The crust is excellent and crackling, the crumb is well developed, but it doesn't taste like much. My sourdough starter is midway through growing so I'll probably mess with that later on.

Use sourdough no-knead. Same technique but about 1/4 cup starter instead of yeast.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2013 09:17

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

TenKindsOfCrazy posted:

Today I tried making two different kinds of bread. The first one (a savoury chocolate bread) called for 6 cups of flour and 1 3/4 cups of water plus oil, salt, sugar and cocoa. When I tried to mix that together it was dry as hell and there was no way it was going to come together into a 'soft dough' with a wooden spoon as the recipe claimed. I cautiously added more water while trying knead it into a recognizably dough-like form. It ended up this stiff, hard ball that would barely knead at all. I eventually left it to rise and it did a bit but nothing much. Adding more water and kneading more has kind of helped but I'm not sure I'm going to try baking it at all.

The other bread was a no-knead using more yeast and only a few hours in the bowl. It also used 6 cups of flour but nearly twice the amount of water than the chocolate bread. Even it stayed much drier than a no-knead usually does and had little weird hard crusty bits in it after it had sat for the allotted amount of time. I tried kneading it together a bit more and letting it rise a little more again but even then it had weird bits. I baked it and I'll cut into it soon and see what it looks like inside.

What is going on here? The only thing I can think of is that I had the living room window open and forgot about it so it was colder than usual in here today. It was around eight degrees celsius outside but the lady downstairs controls the heat and it gets too warm at times so I opened things up in the morning.

Are you using the same flour as usual? I can't think whet else would account for such dry dough. Add more water!

The hard bits on top I sometimes get if I don't properly cover the dough with oiled film. It dries out and forms little hard scabs.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2013 10:48

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Hydration and weight are very useful, but so is intuition. Trust yours more! It felt dry, and it was.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2013 17:55

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 17:39

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

TenKindsOfCrazy posted:

An experiment that could have gone horribly wrong ended up one of the tastiest breads I've baked yet. I used a random recipe for crusty buns but made a cayenne cheddar swirl loaf with it.

Sweet baby Jesus, that looks amazing.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2013 15:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Goons with Spoons > Rise to me: The Bread Thread

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