|
objects in mirror posted:There's nothing the government can do about people being thrown out of their homes for being gay, just like there's nothing government can do about people being thrown out of their homes for smoking pot. What government can do is stop prosecuting homosexuals, which the Western nations have done, but they need to stop prosecuting marijuana aficionados as well. LBGTQ advocates are sucking up political capital and oxygen in the hope of creating a utopia where humans are all tolerant and accepting of gays and in the process perhaps block progress on other issues that actually stem from direct government action. You should probably stop trying to draw an equivalency between these two things, since pot smokers haven't faced nearly the same degree of persecution as LGBT people, for utterly immutable aspects of their being.
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 04:06
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 08:14 |
|
|
objects in mirror posted:Here we see why social justice causes are in fact zero sum, because they become wrapped up in identity politics and people go "my issue is paramount and important" even when they're sufficiently being addressed and selfishly advocate for the hogging of resources that could be better spent elsewhere. Uh, you were the one who initially couched it as zero-sum, where recognizing LGBT rights implicitly means we can't also push for marijuana decriminalization: objects in mirror posted:I'm not saying to be provocative or offensive, but it's curious how an issue like gay marriage can become part of the Democratic party platform and yet most Democratic politicians are very resistant to taking up favoring marijuana legalization KingEup posted:Laws that criminalise same sex sex and laws that criminalise cannabis consumption both wrong and morally egregious for the same reason. They both violate the equal liberty and equal protection principle. Are you...under the impression that one can be born a pothead, as one can be born gay? 
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 04:12
|
|
|
objects in mirror posted:More total harm has been done to society in the past 60 years because of drug prohibition than because of anti-gay agitation. In fact the numbers of lives ruined because of marijuana is probably greater than the number of lives ruined because of prejudice against homosexuals, which are a tiny minority of which a substantial number has a hard time growing up in an intolerant society. You're going to have to back this up with evidence, because I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your rear end here.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 04:21
|
|
|
objects in mirror posted:More total harm has been done to society in the past 60 years because of drug prohibition than because of anti-gay agitation. In fact the numbers of lives ruined because of marijuana is probably greater than the number of lives ruined because of prejudice against homosexuals, which are a tiny minority of which a substantial number has a hard time growing up in an intolerant society. 8.8 million people were arrested for marijuana from 2001 to 2010. The total harm imposed on society because of that can be argued to be greater than if in the same period 1 million people faced homelessness (usually a temporary condition) due to homophobia, or at the very least we can see these as being equivalent harms. Stressing that homosexuality is immutable and drug usage is merely a preference gives a tacit justification to the punishment those 8.8 million people received as if to say "break the law and pay the price" which is quite hosed up IMO. Also, by the way, it shows extremely poor taste on your part to make this brain-dead argument one day after 49 people were shot and killed because they were lgbt. What in God's name is wrong with you?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 04:26
|
|
|
KingEup posted:Holy gently caress the GLBTI community marched in Sydney (Australia) for the rights of drug users and helped establish our first drug consumption room because they saw the parallels with their own struggle. It would be loving bizarre for anyone in the queer rights movement in this country to diminish the importance of drug user rights. Except, here's the thing - drug users in this thread are vocally trying to diminish the importance of the LGBT rights movement, a day after 50 LGBT people were massacred for being LGBT. Whether you care to admit it or not, there is a difference between being persecuted for something you choose to do (smoke weed), and something you do not choose to do (be gay). They are both bad things, but a big part of life is that there are degrees of "bad things." Persecuting somebody for something innate to their being that they did not choose about themselves is, in and of itself, usually worse than persecuting somebody for a thing that they elect to do. Now, add to that the fact that millions of LGBT people died painfully and without aid from AIDS, tens of thousands of LGBT people were murdered during the Holocaust, and were tortured, executed, or driven to suicide for thousands of years throughout human history, and you've got a far bigger picture than the one you've painted. I'm not saying that LGBT rights in the U.S. is a more important issue overall than ending the worldwide Drug War, because that's a very complicated statement. But what I am saying, is that your rights as a pot smoker? Compared to the rights of LGBT people to not be murdered for being who they innately are, I'm not terribly concerned about your right to smoke weed. (and I do say that as somebody who believes we need to legalize it) Majorian fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jun 14, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 04:41
|
|
|
KingEup posted:Except 'being born gay' hasn't been a winning argument when it actually comes to challenging statute. Sodomy laws were struck down because SCOTUS held that they violated 14th ammendment guarantees, which just happen to be the same guarentees that cannabis prohibition violates. In other words, anti gay and anti cannabis laws are wrong for the same reason. Holy God this is an unconvincing argument. The fact that you are not legally entitled to engage in a recreational activity is not a violation of your 14th amendment rights, if nobody else is legally entitled to do so either. The 14th amendment applies to the lgbt community because prohibitions on things like marriage equality do not recognize that they are entitled to the same rights as everybody else, and that immutable aspects of their being should not be barriers to having those rights protected. And that's just from a legal perspective. Saying that they're "wrong for the same reason" is idiotic, because they're wrong on a moral level for completely different reasons.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 05:43
|
|
|
e: ahahaha, I didn't realize that "Object in mirror" is a different poster.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
objects in mirror posted:Stressing the possible biological root of homosexuality above all else is counterproductive in my opinion, because I'm someone who thinks homosexuality should be accepted even if it is a choice. Saying "I can't help it" all the time appears to acknowledge that it is on the surface a bad thing but it should be tolerated because the person just can't help it. Screw that. Except for the fact that it is an immutable aspect of LGBT people's existence, just as being black is an immutable aspect of a black person's existence. I'm sorry, but you can't equate your struggle with that of LGBT people. It's not the same thing. Your being a pothead is not an immutable aspect of your existence - you can cease to be a marijuana user. A gay person cannot cease to be a gay person. And again, good God - how could you possibly have thought this was a good time for you to make this terrible argument?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 05:59
|
|
|
objects in mirror posted:And the desire for mind-altering substances is immutable too. It's really not. I know you want to believe what that quack-written book says, but it's BS. e: Publisher's Weekly: quote:The pursuit of intoxification through drugs, according to UCLA psychopharmacologist Siegel, is the ``fourth drive,'' as deep-rooted as our instinctual cravings for food, drink and sex. Therefore, he argues, the war on drugs is doomed to failure; ``the answer is to make drugs perfectly safe and unabusable'' via clinical and pharmacological research. To arrive at this highly debatable conclusion, Siegel leads readers through obnoxious animal experiments, in some of which hallucinogens are fed to monkeys, alcohol to elephants and hemp seeds to pigeons. His extrapolations from wild animals' consumption of psychoactive plants to people's addictions to drugs are often facile. Although chapters on alcohol, opium, cocaine, cannabis, etc. pack a welter of details, this volume seems suspect in both its theorizing and its interpretation of experiments. Author tour. (June) Majorian fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jun 14, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 06:05
|
|
|
Object in mirror posted:Failed your major huh? You're either Bernice Anders, or MIGF. That's my guess. Yeah, he's a quack, and you're not terribly bright for having believed him. quote:edit: Majorian, quoting a paragraph's PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY summary of the book is ridiculous. It's not zero sum, you know. Both the desire for drugs and homosexuality could be innate. The former being true doesn't diminish the latter. Which is why you were whining about the attention that the LGBT community gets and started equating your struggle with theirs, a day after 50 of them got massacred for being LGBT. Majorian fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jun 14, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 06:11
|
|
|
Please, tell us more about how your persecution for being a drug user is equal to that of LGBT people, who get murdered regularly for being LGBT. Also, you didn't read the Publisher's Weekly snippet I quoted.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 06:19
|
|
|
objects in mirror posted:An unsigned paragraph's length critique from a trade magazine that specializes in books is not evidence of anything you half-wit. Seriously, you need to back up your suggestion that you, an American pothead, experience a similar level of persecution as an LGBT person living in the U.S.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 08:11
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 08:14 |
|
|
objects in mirror posted:Not me personally, but millions of people have experienced harms due to drug prohibition equal to or greater than harms experienced by the average gay person due to homophobia. Why is this so hard for you to accept or even acknowledge as possible? I have acknowledged that lots of people have suffered and died unnecessarily under the Drug War. What I and others here take issue with are these characterizations: quote:LBGTQ advocates are sucking up political capital and oxygen in the hope of creating a utopia where humans are all tolerant and accepting of gays and in the process perhaps block progress on other issues that actually stem from direct government action. objects in mirror posted:And the desire for mind-altering substances is immutable too. You can scare people away from partaking in marijuana, but that doesn't eliminate the desire, much like sodomy laws didn't eliminate the desire for butt sex. Seriously, do you not see why these were incredibly lovely things to say a day after a bunch of lgbt people got massacred?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2016 08:23
|
|