- HMDK
- Sep 5, 2009
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...and they all pretend they're orphans, and their memory's like a train
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You've completely missed my point.
That the money from rich white gay men was involved in funding the messaging behind a shift in opinion surrounding homosexuality is irrelevant to what I'm trying to point out, which is that the messaging worked and it is worth scrutinizing how it worked. What I'm suggesting is that part of how it worked is by changing the exemplar brought to mind when talking about homosexuality. It's only when people start to call to mind an exemplar of a group that they can empathize with that they'll start to be willing to extend rights to them.
The American poor is absolutely poisoned as far as image goes, and when they're mentioned the main association brought to mind is black, inner city, and terrifying to white Republicans. No one in this election cycle, or in politics in general talks about helping the poor because the vast majority of Americans unfortunately just won't sympathize with that image of the poor. This wasn't always the case, but when you've associated mythical figures such as welfare queens and lazy welfare recipients with the term then that's what people will bring to mind when you talk about it. No one wants to consider themselves poor, partly out of pride, but also because their image of who "the poor" are is negative and very specific.
Here's a bit from Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow which is an excellent read for some of the biases about how we make decisions in general:
If the left wing media were to have a goal, it should be to rehabilitate the image of the people it is trying to help. No matter what sort of argument or demonstration you're making, you won't get any traction if the group you are trying to help has been completely stigmatized by the right wing media.
You'll never win arguing points, or compelling people to extend rules such as non-discrimination as was tried with acceptance of homosexuality. People have to want to help, and they'll only do that if they can empathize with the people you're asking them to help. This is what I'm saying was done for gay rights (with the help of rich white gay men, sure), but this is also what's going to have to be done for poverty as well.
They have to whitewash, style, tonsure and extreme-tv-makeover all the poor huddled masses let in by the statue of bigotry who didn't get the message of bootstraps not being issued at Ellis. Huh.
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Oct 19, 2012 00:28
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May 7, 2024 21:33
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- HMDK
- Sep 5, 2009
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...and they all pretend they're orphans, and their memory's like a train
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Really it's just that we're talking past each other. The image for gay people is presented effectively because there is money in it. There is no magical liberal media that has the ability to change it outside the introduction of money and political influence.
This is intentional. On 'both sides'.
There is no left wing media. For that matter there is no "right wing media" as some sort of ideologically pure entity. There are the wealthy and influential individuals capable of dictating policy in favor of their wealth and power to the entirety of 'the media'. There are subjects where they can disagree (and this is where gay marriage fits into the picture!) but agree on the vast majority of things and market forces drive them to non-coercive collusion.
The false picture of the media as having a left wing and a right wing that are at war with one another is just another part of the business model.
Kahneman's a very good read, but on this subject you should read Manufacturing Consent.
e: I think I should make clear that I'm not saying that you're wrong in any particular, but rather that it is irrelevant because there is no power that exists to change how it is done. It is an effect of the system (precisely because creating an image and then an unconvincing argument against that image is spectacularly effective, as you say!), not a cause.
I agree, and I think you just bridged the gap between me and How Darwinian.
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Oct 19, 2012 00:56
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- HMDK
- Sep 5, 2009
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...and they all pretend they're orphans, and their memory's like a train
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and market forces drive them to non-coercive collusion.
Wait, a fuckin' minute. What the hell? How is being forced being NOT forced?
HMDK fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 19, 2012
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Oct 19, 2012 02:33
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Oct 19, 2012 00:28
