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User 173692 posted:This is completely true. Another interesting thing to think about is what fights the left is actually winning and how they are doing it. Gay rights is something major that has changed and there's been a bunch of different arguments for it. Gay rights is a winner because rich people (and distinguishing it from reproductive rights: rich men) can be homosexual just like anybody else, more than any other reason. It gets plenty the money and opposition to it only originates from the religious wing of the right rather than the business wing.
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Oct 18, 2012 22:55
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How Darwinian posted:You've completely missed my point. Really it's just that we're talking past each other. The image for gay people is presented effectively because there is money in it. There is no magical liberal media that has the ability to change it outside the introduction of money and political influence. quote:The American poor is absolutely poisoned as far as image goes, and when they're mentioned the main association brought to mind is black, inner city, and terrifying to white Republicans. This is intentional. On 'both sides'. quote:If the left wing media were to have a goal, it should be to rehabilitate the image of the people it is trying to help. No matter what sort of argument or demonstration you're making, you won't get any traction if the group you are trying to help has been completely stigmatized by the right wing media. There is no left wing media. For that matter there is no "right wing media" as some sort of ideologically pure entity. There are the wealthy and influential individuals capable of dictating policy in favor of their wealth and power to the entirety of 'the media'. There are subjects where they can disagree (and this is where gay marriage fits into the picture!) but agree on the vast majority of things and market forces drive them to non-coercive collusion. The false picture of the media as having a left wing and a right wing that are at war with one another is just another part of the business model. Kahneman's a very good read, but on this subject you should read Manufacturing Consent. e: I think I should make clear that I'm not saying that you're wrong in any particular, but rather that it is irrelevant because there is no power that exists to change how it is done. It is an effect of the system (precisely because creating an image and then an unconvincing argument against that image is spectacularly effective, as you say!), not a cause. atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Oct 19, 2012 |
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Oct 19, 2012 00:43
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SpaceMost posted:Marxism is at its weakest when it's this reductive. Well yes one line from a post in a thread where it isn't the actual subject of discussion is pretty reductive! HMDK posted:Wait, a fuckin' minute. What the hell? How is being forced being NOT forced? In an excessively short response: because it is simply a natural effect of market causes, not some cabal forcing people to act. It is a very detailed subject and that's why I suggested a book to read on the subject.
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Oct 19, 2012 03:56
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Dr Christmas posted:One trend that's freaking me out as I think of it is that future Republican leaders will be growing up listening to Fox News, rather than simply using it to air their views. You can sort of see it in the 2010 Tea Party. While Republicans during the Bush years and before just sort of used stuff like abortion and gay marriage as bait for their base, the new guys will actually do everything they can to stop it. Not to mention all of the idiots who decided to vote against the debt ceiling increase after they got what they wanted anyway because Glenn Beck or whoever said that it means borrowing more money from China. While that's going to be terrible look on the bright side; that same generation will be the first not to have grown up mired in the paranoia and fear of the Cold War. As a boogeyman Terrorism is far less traumatic than the spectre of nuclear holocaust.
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Oct 20, 2012 02:54
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The important part of the whole 'marijuana is still illegal' derail is that the instant the sitting president, whether Obama tomorrow or some republican in 2017, decides it would be politically valuable to crack down on drugs they can arrest everyone running a dispensary (and everyone in the state government of their choice associated with regulating them, under RICO, if they like) quickly and easily because the state programs are criminal conspiracy.
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Apr 4, 2014 22:09
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Install Windows posted:It is politically viable as all hell for Republicans, especially since they have largely written off Colorado and Washington already - and both states also have plenty of awful conservative areas where established Republicans are going to get re-elected for a while. Yeah if Colorado goes D in 2016 but the R candidate wins I really would not be surprised by a DEA crackdown. I very much doubt it would go so far as RICO prosecution of government employees (or CCE prosecution of Governor Hickenlooper which would carry a mandatory life sentence, since tax receipts will far exceed the $10 million per year minimum) but it's still possible.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:08
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