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Um, I'm apparently downloading a 1.8 GB patch? No DLC. edit: how useful quote:PC Patch 11 Details
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Dec 19, 2013 01:39
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Awesome, my Taiwanese students sounded really interested in this and with Traditional Chinese support they'll actually understand what the hell is going on.
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Dec 19, 2013 05:31
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I've got this game when it and the season pass were on the recent sale; I'm not up to speed with the thread. Is there a way to disable the golden skins without having to start a new game, preferably while keeping the damage upgrades? The pistol and machine gun are fine enough I guess, but I just picked up the shotgun and it's positively tacky.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:29
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Hannibal Rex posted:I've got this game when it and the season pass were on the recent sale; I'm not up to speed with the thread. Is there a way to disable the golden skins without having to start a new game, preferably while keeping the damage upgrades? The pistol and machine gun are fine enough I guess, but I just picked up the shotgun and it's positively tacky. Unfortunately no, I don't think. You can disable automatic downloads and then remove the relevant DLC from the folder, which will scrap the special skins from that point on, but for whatever reason it won't change it in your current game. I can only imagine that the appearance gets recorded somewhere in the actual save coding, and there's no making sense of that, as far as I know.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:26
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Well, hell. I just spent the first hour of the game getting massacred in combat - and I've played previous Bioshocks. Then I discover the marksman controller layout and BAM! Suddenly I'm excellent at combat. I can't honestly imagine that people would prefer playing the game with default controls on consoles, but to each their own.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:12
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Well since the thread is revived, I picked it up and played through it on the recent steam sale, really enjoyed it and can understand how the *ghost* fights can quickly go from skin of the teeth barely survived experience I had to dieing repeatedly with the boss healing back up and your ammo and salt staying low. One immersion complaint though, did anyone else find it a little weird how nobody really took notice or cared about you going through big crowds armed to the teeth? I'd like to see what they could do with the next Bioshock game if it was made as a exploration game with little to no gunplay like many indie developers are having success with lately, but with a massive studio budget behind it. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 18:42
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That was one of the things they screwed up, since there are a couple of early moments where people seem to react to your weapons, and then they just give up on it. The first hour or so of the game is really interesting in terms of setting but from then on it's a repetitive slog to the finish, like walking through one mostly empty set after another.
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Jan 7, 2014 02:54
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Sex Robot posted:If you read through some of the dev history, you see that roughly a 3rd of the planned game never made it to production. The tears system as a combat mechanic was meant to work entirely differently (You could do poo poo like summon freight trains that would plough through crowds of enemies). Moving through to different tear was supposed to play a much MUCH bigger part in the story. It's kind of sad to see what could have been. I wish I knew more about the game's development and whether it was simply a case of "too much poo poo planned, not enough time" or "designer has way too many ideas to wrap up in a game." Ken Levine is often very interesting to listen to but he's frustratingly vauge about a lot of things that he could totally clear up as far as his storylines or just his design philosophies. I'm not saying he needs to give a definitive answer behind "was that really Anna at the very end" or whatever but when you intentionally leave questions without answers, people will fill in the blanks by themselves.
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Jan 7, 2014 04:45
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Dick Trauma posted:That was one of the things they screwed up, since there are a couple of early moments where people seem to react to your weapons, and then they just give up on it. The first hour or so of the game is really interesting in terms of setting but from then on it's a repetitive slog to the finish, like walking through one mostly empty set after another. There's that first house you break into when you're trying to avoid being attacked by city security forces and the couple inside offer you safe passage if you don't hurt anyone. If you fire your gun in the house, a whole ton of guards break in and attack you. The closest the game ever comes to this again is the handful of times you can rob a shopkeeper and everyone in the area suddenly attacks you. Just a little bit disappointing because having more sequences like this would really have varied the gameplay quite a bit.
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Jan 7, 2014 05:48
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Narcissus1916 posted:Then I discover the marksman controller layout and BAM! Suddenly I'm excellent at combat. I can't honestly imagine that people would prefer playing the game with default controls on consoles, but to each their own. Once I changed I equipped the gear that gives you +25% damage when aiming and discovered the game actually has pop aiming, which you can't use on Xbox because of how the RS click only really works inside the deadzone. gently caress the default layout, Bioshock Marksman flows so much better as a console game. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 09:39
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Has anyone modded in a manual save for this game yet? I don't mind the idea of checkpoints, but I was trapped playing the game 45 minutes longer than I planned to last night because I hadn't reach a checkpoint. Not only does this turn it from a game to to a tedious exercise in stumbling around and opening the quit menu constantly, but it's going to piss off my wife if I constantly have to wait until the game decides I can save before I can quit.
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Jan 7, 2014 17:55
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Has anyone modded in a manual save for this game yet? I don't mind the idea of checkpoints, but I was trapped playing the game 45 minutes longer than I planned to last night because I hadn't reach a checkpoint. Not only does this turn it from a game to to a tedious exercise in stumbling around and opening the quit menu constantly, but it's going to piss off my wife if I constantly have to wait until the game decides I can save before I can quit. This actually was my biggest complaint about this game... in part because I'm a cranky old MouseAndKeyboard man who HATES when Console Mechanics get into my games, but also because of the time involvement issue. It's not a game where you can just pick up and frag for a few minutes between work obligations or whatever. I've been tempted to replay it in 1999 mode, but without a Quicksave/Quickload it seems like it would be a tedious slog.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:25
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Lack of manual save has made Burial at Sea not a lot of fun.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:32
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At least they took out the ability to carry no more than two guns, aka the worst console shooter trend
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Jan 7, 2014 19:37
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I really don't get the two guns thing. I mean I do get the realism angle that you can't carry GTA's entire arsenal, so I understand putting a limit on the amount you can carry, it adds an interesting challenge. But even if you could only carry two big guns in your backslung holsters, you have a hip holster - you should always have at least one pistol weapon. e: also burial at sea 1 is on sale on Xbox at the moment Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 20:03
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I like the weapon limitation. Having only a few guns handy at any given time encourages playing by ear and changing things up once in a while instead of pulling out the crossbow whenever and killing everything in one headshot with it a la Bioshock 1. "Wah wah console games" say 'hardcore' PC gamers but the mechanic is not a result of consolization, but rather the fact that the game would be way too goddamn easy if you could carry around one of every weapon (Burial at Sea is a cakewalk once you figure out you can hold all your guns). Hell, you'd be carrying around two of every weapon if you count the Vox versions. The weapon limitation adds an almost frantic element to the gameplay that would otherwise be lost because you have to either keep scooping up whatever ammo you can find or ditch your gun for whatever your enemies are currently using. Stuff like the handcannon goes from being a novelty instakill revolver to being a choice between a gun with stopping power but little ammo and a more common weapon that leaves you with ammo spilling out of your rear end in a top hat. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 20:26
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True, but there's no reason not to allow you to carry a pistol and two large weapons.
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Jan 7, 2014 21:06
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Bobby Deluxe posted:True, but there's no reason not to allow you to carry a pistol and two large weapons. Yeah, that was my thinking, too. And you shouldn't be allowed to use a two handed weapon while on the skyline, should be sidearms only! Also, the full set of Vox variant weapons was unnecessary and occasionally confusing. It felt like a remnant from an early version of the game, where the reality split that arms the Vox was a more central part of the game, but they left it in, anyway. CJacobs posted:"Wah wah console games" say 'hardcore' PC gamers but the mechanic is not a result of consolization, but rather the fact that the game would be way too goddamn easy if you could carry around one of every weapon Ease off there, cowboy, I never said that. I blamed the stupid waypoint save system on consolization, not the weapons restrictions. Choosing a limited load out of weapons is not a new idea in PC FPS games, the first example that comes to mind is 2000's Solider Of Fortune. Squashy Nipples fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 21:08
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The weapon limit doesn't bother me because it's at least a gameplay mechanic. The lack of manual save, on the other hand, is just lazy development no matter how much "hardcore" games try to wave it away as preventing "savescumming". If they think a manual save would remove the challenge from the game (though who are they to tell me how to play the product I paid them for), they could at least make a "temp-save" that allows you to quit the game and then reload on next launch, but not to reload while in-game. That way when it's time to go to work/walk the dog/make dinner/bail my friend out of jail, I can just quit and not lose any progress. Although, if this game crashes nearly as much as Bioshock 2 did (even 3 blue screens from that turd), the lack of manual save and load will piss me off pretty bad.
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Jan 7, 2014 21:46
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CJacobs posted:I like the weapon limitation. Having only a few guns handy at any given time encourages playing by ear and changing things up once in a while instead of pulling out the crossbow whenever and killing everything in one headshot with it a la Bioshock 1. I'd say limiting me to two guns causes me to pick one gun I never drop and swap the second gun with whatever I might need for the level.
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Jan 7, 2014 22:01
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Squashy Nipples posted:Ease off there, cowboy, I never said that. I blamed the stupid waypoint save system on consolization, not the weapons restrictions. Choosing a limited load out of weapons is not a new idea in PC FPS games, the first example that comes to mind is 2000's Solider Of Fortune. I wasn't talking about your gripe, the weapon limit's been a common complaint since the game came out. The autosave only thing is horseshit. scary ghost dog posted:I'd say limiting me to two guns causes me to pick one gun I never drop and swap the second gun with whatever I might need for the level. Then it's working as intended, I guess. As soon as I picked up the standard machine gun I pretty much never got rid of it 
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Jan 7, 2014 22:19
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For all I know this is me kicking the hornet's nest, but I'm playing Bioshock 2 and finding it VASTLY better than the first. If only for letting me fire plasmids and weapons at the same time, and not making me play loving PIPE DREAM every five minutes. It is rather odd how Bioshock 2 has the opposite arc of the first game - the first few levels are kinda drab and then WHAM! the game grabs you by the balls and just gets better and better. I just reached the final section or two after fontaine futuristics - the "Wow" moments are piling up.
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Jan 7, 2014 23:52
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Kinda agree, wouldn't go so far as vastly better, no one level is as good as Fort Frolic or the medical pavilion but they're all pretty good. It plays much better as you say, guns feel way better and the enemies never get quite as bullet spongey as they did in 1.
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Jan 8, 2014 00:05
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Narcissus1916 posted:For all I know this is me kicking the hornet's nest, but I'm playing Bioshock 2 and finding it VASTLY better than the first. Yeah, I never understood the hate for 2... I even still play the multiplayer from time to time.
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Jan 8, 2014 00:14
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Narcissus1916 posted:For all I know this is me kicking the hornet's nest, but I'm playing Bioshock 2 and finding it VASTLY better than the first. I really enjoyed it, but I had a few criticisms: -All of the guns were either too weak or had too much a drawback aside from the machine gun. I used the machine gun exclusively once I got it. The rivet gun was too weak, and all the other guns either kicked back too hard or were super slow to reload. -Many of the plasmids are borderline worthless. Incinerate! Is the best one by far and using other plasmids didn't really make combat different, just harder for no reason. Scout was cool though. -It started to feel really repetitive. Kill Daddy, Adopt Sister, Harvest Two Bodies, Save/Harvest Her, Repeat, Repeat, Fight Big Sister, Repeat All. The final level broke the formula a bit (and was the most tense and fun as a result), but then the ending fight is literally "Fight a couple waves of enemies then shoot these pipes". I dunno, I had fun all the way through but I can't help but feel like they could have put more creativity into the plasmids and tonics. -The first Alpha Series I fought was really, really hard, but then the rest seemed to die super easily. Not sure what's up with that.
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Jan 8, 2014 00:25
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BioShock 2 is just a better constructed game all around. And yes, that includes the plot. Sure it doesn't have a big twist really, but it does have an actual, not terrible ending.
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Jan 8, 2014 00:57
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I might enjoy bioshock 2 so much more because of how much drat ADAM the game throws your way. In the first game I felt like the game was really chintzy with how much ADAM it gave you; forcing me to make tough decisions about what to buy. The problem is that by only giving me so much ADAM, I played Bioshock super conservatively. Pretty much nothing but Electrobolt and the shotgun (or wrench, if its early in the game) all the way through. I'm sure the gene tonics and other plasmids are useful in specific situations, but I never really felt the need or space for experimentation. With Bioshock 2, if you adopt the little sisters you have CRAZY amounts of material to play with. Plasmids like Incinerate actually do enough damage to be useful, and Ice Blast can be upgraded so you can still scavenge for material after freezing enemies. I'm summoning bots, setting insect-cyclone traps, and laying out decoys with ease. A lot of this comes down to the weird vagaries of Bioshock's combat engine - its overwhelmingly much better at "hold your position and set traps" then "roaming around the level shooting dudes." Something that the developers of number 2 clearly figured out and changed how and when fights occur. As for Infinite, I'm only a few hours in and so far its not really doing much for me. I read an article by Kirk Hamilton at Kotaku about his problems with the combat, and I pretty much agree with all of them.
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Jan 8, 2014 01:09
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Kokoro Wish posted:BioShock 2 is just a better constructed game all around. And yes, that includes the plot. Sure it doesn't have a big twist really, but it does have an actual, not terrible ending. The twist in Bioshock 1 was dumb and predictable. Oh no your mentor betrays you and is actually the bad guy? I knew Atlas was going to end up being evil as soon as his family got blown up. I know the bit of the twist that everyone cares about was the Would you kindly stuff but that just opened more plot holes. Why would Atlas/Fontaine need all the bullshit about his family if it's a literal mind control agent you're compelled to obey immediately as Ryan demonstrated (which wasn't even consistent, anytime Atlas/Fontaine dropped a WYK? you could take your sweet time) And after the big reveal where he pointlessly monologues his evil plans he decides to get rid of you by sending 2 security bots at you. In a game you can resurrect endlessly with no penalty  .
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Jan 8, 2014 01:11
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Hmm. I found two to be an entire game made out of the most irritating section from 1, and the story left me so nonplussed I can't even remember it. We dealt with Rapture in 1, why go back? 1 and infinite gave me these beautiful but tragic worlds to admire and explore between bouts of combat. 2 felt like a cash-in; it should have been a DLC for 1, but 2k wanted to stretch it out so they could shift it at £40 a copy instead of £10.
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Jan 8, 2014 02:58
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I know I've said this before in this thread, but it bears repeating: Bioshock 2's story was stronger because its characters felt more like humans with personal quirks and humanity rather than living embodiments of moral philosophies (Sofia Lamb mostly notwithstanding).
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Jan 8, 2014 03:22
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Bobby Deluxe posted:We dealt with Rapture in 1, why go back? Bioshock 1 is the story of Rapture, Bioshock 2 is the story of Delta, Eleanor, Sophia, and what it means to be family. Jetfire's right- because Bioshock 2 chose to care about its people, it ends up having a better plot. It was certainly greenlit as a cash-in, but there's nothing that says they can't be good. I'm not sure about your assertion that it could have been DLC...because they're both set in Rapture, I guess? I hope we never get another World War 2 game, then, we've been a Germany hundreds of times! Bioshock 2 also gave us the best line in the series - "This one died alone and afraid! Stand in our way, and you'll get the same." 
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Jan 8, 2014 03:45
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Also, Bioshock 2 did really blow me away with the sequence where you play as a little sister. You don't really notice how gory, twisted, and hosed up Rapture is while playing 1 and most of 2 because you're just kinda drowning in it all the time. Once you're in sister vision and everything's calm and pretty, it's super jarring to jab into a beautiful looking angel corpse only to have it turn into a gnarled monstrosity right in front of you. Really drives in how twisted and monstrous the city is. Although it feels kind implausible that anyone's still alive down there after the first game. Doesn't seem like the splicers are smart or organized enough to produce food and such for survival, and Lamb doesn't seem to be bringing food in from anywhere.
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Jan 8, 2014 04:40
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Lamb was such an insanely awful character that there was no way I was able to enjoy BS2 more than 1. Her entire concept was just ridiculous, shoehorned in and kind of patheticly an attempt to have a "counterpart" to the uber-Libertarian mindset of Bioshock 1 but without it making half the sense. I liked a lot of BS2 more than BS1 but Lamb drat near ruined that game for me. Also the morality choices were awful, especially the Alexander one which does not fit remotely into the black-and-white morality they wanted to toss out there. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 04:45
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If Bioshock 2 could have told the exact same basic story (with Delta, Lamb, and Eleanor) but not in Rapture with no links to Andrew Ryan or the originals plot it'd be a much better received game. Minervas den could have been the same though, that DLC was excellent and worked well as a companion piece to the Rapture story, it tied up Tenembaums story nicely too.
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Jan 8, 2014 04:59
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Boxman posted:I'm not sure about your assertion that it could have been DLC...because they're both set in Rapture, I guess? I hope we never get another World War 2 game, then, we've been a Germany hundreds of times! People keep saying the combat was better because you could wield guns and plasmids, but that's more a criticism of 1 than it is a point in 2s favour. Maybe the plot was better, but I'll probably never know because I found the game itself way too annoying. And I'm hardly alone in this. And this is coming from someone who cleared the achievements on Dark Souls. It being set in Rapture felt like one of those fanfics where the author can't let go and pretends a dead character 'really survived you guys and is now best friends with this new and previously unmentioned character I made up.' What I meant by 'we did Rapture' is that Bioshock was a beautiful, rounded story that ended destroying Rapture after spending the entire game showing you exactly why it deserved to be destroyed. I left rapture satisfied. I came back confused and didn't really see the point of still being there. Basically what I'm saying is Rapture should have stayed dead; 2 makes it feel like beating a dead horse and Bioshock deserves a better legacy than that.
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Jan 8, 2014 09:52
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I kinda liked that 2 showed off how much the situation had worsened since Jack's departure. The already-dilapidated Rapture is now literally falling apart at the seams and sinking into the ravine next door.
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Jan 8, 2014 10:02
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Bioshock 2's story was terrible in its exploration of the parental dynamic. The Delta/Eleanor father/daughter bond felt really artificial and not actually there to me, mostly because Delta was the silent protagonist. He had zero personality and the only time we ever spent with Eleanor to feel connected to her was a two-minute cutscene at the beginning right before Delta put a gun to his head. There was also no real sense of urgency to anything you did in the game, despite supposedly needing Eleanor to live. The whole parental dynamic would have been better explored if the protagonist had been the detective from the surface who was looking for his daughter from the viral marketing campaign. A father looking for his actual daughter would have been a much stronger draw than monster-in-a-diving-suit looking for his mutated not-daughter ten years after he died. (I know that the actual storyline for the game had been settled before they came up with the detective for the ad campaign, I'm just using him as an example of a better way to delve into the dynamic the game was trying to go for) Bioshock 2 kinda suffered from one of the big problems Infinite did, in that it wanted to have two large central themes that just couldn't share space with each other very well. (Although Infinite's themes were contradictory, whereas 2's were just competing for center stage). Bioshock 2 wanted to be all about the parenting dynamic while also being about "yo super-communism sucks as hard as objectivism, guys". Infinite wanted to say "look at all the infinite possibilities! except some things will always happen and are unavoidable," and also say "accept responsibility for your actions and actually grow as a person." It wanted to be deterministic while also being about freedom of choice (and the abuse of that freedom), which are themes that just stand at odds with each other. Angry Walrus fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 10:28
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I haven't really invested much time in Infinite yet, hence why I'm hanging out in the NO SPOILERS thread. But holy moses, there's a 2k publishing sale on Xbox marketplace, and I just picked up Minerva's Den for $2.50. Hell yes.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:08
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Narcissus1916 posted:I haven't really invested much time in Infinite yet, hence why I'm hanging out in the NO SPOILERS thread. But holy moses, there's a 2k publishing sale on Xbox marketplace, and I just picked up Minerva's Den for $2.50. It's a good game, you will enjoy it.
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Jan 8, 2014 14:05
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zenintrude posted:It's a good game, you will enjoy it. Agreed. In retrospect, I enjoyed MD more then BS2... and I liked BS2 a lot! You guys make some great points about story and structure of BS2, but for me the real issue was that the mid game turned into a bit of a repetitive slog. It felt like you were advancing too slowly, but maybe that's because the game gives you a lot of Adam early? At any rate, I felt the accelerated progression of Minerva's was a much more enjoyable pace.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:33
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