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woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
I propose that Bush was a reasonably statesmanlike, quick-witted and competent president compared to the 2012 field.

Look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXXa1_oArM

Bush's body language is one of total command. He immediately seizes on the moment. Look at this man, he would have been a breath of fresh air during the primary debates. The only guy I can think of who has this kind of presence right now is Christie.

Bush was also capable of surviving a hostile press conference, because he apprised himself of facts outside the echo chamber. That's gone now. The GOP's idea of an intellectual is Ryan :laffo: or Jindal (Rhodes Scholar with a specialization in capturing possessed women). Bush looks like Teddy Roosevelt compared to these midgets.

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woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
That's kind of my point, it wasn't Bush who drove those policy choices, it was the coalition his party was forced to assemble to reach the magic 50%. Remember, we're talking about the GOP; brinkmanship and quagmires are a given, as is an economic policy that was literally sketched on a napkin in 1974.

Can you imagine Michele Bachmann taking the initiative to do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD_MbcBXEN0

Despite his belief in functionally bigoted policies, Bush genuinely deplored bigotry. He never used coded language to divide Americans. His wars slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Muslims, but at least he had the decency to reiterate the difference between Islam and the political entities he was fighting.

A lot of people say we never saw Bush during the election because his name is poison; I'd guess that the field of panderers was also repellent to him and it was with no great sense of anguish that he excused himself from campaigning.

Anyway, with Republicans, fiscal ruin and skull pyramids are a given. Can you look like a President while doing it is the question. Bush could, Romney wasn't even close and he was ten times better than the next guy in the primaries.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

If the litmus test of a GOP candidate is that he is charismatic but still abominable on the issues, I mean what are we doing? Handing out points for second-best?

Well can you name a GOP candidate that was anything but abominable on the issues post-Eisenhower? (And surely you can frame Eisenhower badly as well)

Yes, we are talking about the GOP. My point was that Bush looked, sounded and acted better than any Republican with a shot since. Am I wrong?

quote:

Can someone explain this seemingly bizarre reference to me?

quote:

Maybe she sensed our weariness; whether by plan or coincidence, Susan chose the perfect opportunity to attempt an escape. She suddenly leapt up and ran for the door, despite the many hands holding her down. This burst of action served to revive the tired group of students and they soon had her restrained once again, this time half kneeling and half standing. Alice, a student leader in Campus Crusade for Christ, entered the room for the first time, brandishing a crucifix. Running out of options, UCF had turned to a rival campus Christian group for spiritual tactics. The preacher had denied our request for assistance and recommended that we not confront the demon; his suggestion was a little late. I still wonder if the good preacher was too settled to be roused from bed, or if this supposed expert doubted his own ability to confront whatever harassed Susan.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/05/bobby-jindal-exorcised-his-college-girlfriend

woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Nov 27, 2012

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

Bush is "competent," "statesmanlike," "outside the echo chamber," and "never used coded language to divide Americans?" This is about more than how he merely appears, and is also rubbish.

drat dude, I never said I liked the man, but the electorate chose him for a reason. I promise that I was right there chain-smoking and screaming at Alberto Gonzales on C-SPAN along with you.

:siren:George W. Bush is a very bad man:siren:

Having said that, his image was put together well. He had surrogates do the divisive attacks while he looked above it all. Santorum, Perry etc. did those attacks personally.

Also you are kind of pulling one-word quotes out of context there. I said he was reasonably competent and statesmanlike compared to the 2012 field. Do you remember the primaries?

e: I also don't buy the whole "Bush destroyed the party platform" bit. Bush tried to push for immigration reform and his party wouldn't give it to him. Yes, he tacitly (e: VVV openly) approved anti-gay planks, but that was pretty mainstream in 2004.

Most of the stuff that is thrown at Bush would be more accurately leveled at the party, Congress and the right-wing entertainment industry. I'm just saying, if you keep attacking the apelike caricature of Bush instead of the actual man, some "reasonably competent and statesmanlike" contender is going to come along with his style and blindside you. You keep saying "BUT HIS POLICIES" as if this were Athens in the time of Pericles and not the United States.

woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 28, 2012

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Alter Ego posted:

Now I know why we haven't seen much of Arkane.

He did show up to brag about how his 2012 Intrade bets made him $200k (dance puppets, he knew it was going to be Obama all along).

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

:words: amounting to "Bush ruined the party by hiring neocons and pandering to fundamentalists"

I have to respect you for your undying hatred of Bush. But I think you may be looking for this man:

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Is there some connection between being a bootstrapping right-winger and bragging about cooking dry beans? I swear I'm starting to notice it over and over.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Food insecurity and nutrition education are related issues in a sense, but I think they should be kept separate. It strikes me as a little paternalistic when you're talking about people who need help to eat saying "and you should eat better while you're at it." Michelle Obama doesn't try to get white bread taken off of EBT or something; that would be seen, correctly, as really condescending and it would distract from the issue of healthy eating.

Oh, uh, to tie this to the primaries: Mike Huckabee, famous obese consumer of fast food, will drop dead very soon because it is incredibly dangerous to get fat again after bariatric surgery.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Those favorability numbers are amazing. Here they have a charismatic governor who's riding high and is as smart and quick as Bill Clinton, and they've decided he's a worse appeaser than McCain and Romney four years before the election. Meanwhile, he's on TDS persuasively attacking Obamacare in front of a receptive audience of millenials :psyboom:

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

ufarn posted:

He can probably put the time and money into the exercise and nutrition regimen, if he decides to run. He'd probably write a book about it to help with approvals.

Not exactly The Audacity of Hope nor Dreams of My Father, but it's not a bad thing to have behind you.



(Huckabee's fat again)

But don't let the fact that Christie is literally that old Thomas Nast cartoon confuse you as to his charisma. He has it.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
He didn't really sound all that moderate, though. You're confusing "articulate" with "moderate" which really isn't that surprising considering how few GOP pols can go the distance with Jon Stewart. If you listen carefully he doesn't concede anything.

As for the abrasiveness narrative, I don't buy that either. Bill Clinton used to rip the poo poo out of people, and Bush would use an aggressive tone as well. That attacking style only endears him to fascists, and as for the rest, well, he would probably be running against Hillary. Hillary is extremely abrasive and has the added double standard disadvantage of getting labeled "shrill" if she goes too hard.

I just don't see it being a downside for him. The only thing between Christie and nominee perfection is 200 pounds of fat.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
All you "but Chris Christie is BAD!" types need to explain how that hurts his electoral chances. It's like you think that our assessment of him is going to leak to the GOP and they'll be like "poo poo I never realized he's charismatic and can relate to people! RUN THE FATTY!" Blood gates, etc. We know he's a Republican, go remind your family on Facebook about it.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Fat-based attacks on Christie will backfire.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Yes, happy birthday to you and to my dad, citizen. This is why I have retweeted you.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Nonsense posted:

Chris Christie is an idiot and he will not win the nomination sorry nobody is going to praise your conservative genius.

...who is less of an idiot, though?

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Kennedy and FDR prove that health shouldn't rule out picks for president. I mean, the system was designed in the 18th century, when everyone died immediately. That's why we have a vice-president.

I would never trade in health rumors to try and take out a pick. (Huckabee is totes gonna die though)

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

notthegoatseguy posted:

Kennedy and FDR prove pretty much nothing since their illnesses, or at least the extent of their illnesses, weren't publicized. FDR has very few known photographs of him in a wheelchair and the Secret Service was pretty aggressive in that regard.

My point was that we shouldn't rule them out because those guys were pretty decent presidents.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

SilentD posted:

Kennedy wasn't a very good president and wouldn't be remembered so fondly had people not seen him get his head blown off.

Are you saying that wouldn't have made Bush a better president?

e: guys, this is a "Bush sucks" joke, stop writing Harry Turtledove novels about it

woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Dec 12, 2012

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Joementum posted:

Hillary is going to testify to Congress on the 20th about the Benghazi attack.

So look for that to be a complete poo poo show.

"I know, let's attack Hillary! There's no downside, women will love us for it, and I've never seen any evidence that she can defend herself under pressure. Clear eyes, full hearts, etc." *smugly retires to House cafeteria to eat bacon*

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Adar are you trying to drive her price down or something? I really cannot see a scenario where Hillary isn't head and shoulders above the rest of the field. Experience matters and, oddly enough, she now has the most of the kind that counts.

I think we are forgetting just how sui generis Obama was.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
If Hillary and Biden both want to run, would it really make it to the point of debates? Biden is too old. Surely the backroom folks will make him see the light before he gets behind a podium and damages the eventual nom. Unless Hillary stays home, in which case he is not too old.

Also, are we really suggesting that non-Bidens will pose a threat to Hillary? I think that's ridiculous on its face. Schweitzer? Cuomo? These people are nobodies compared to the great and terrible :swoon:Madame Secretary:swoon:

Finally, do you want to tell the PUMAs to wait another four years? I don't.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Naet posted:

Schweitzer is a really charismatic guy, though. His low name recognition in 2012 doesn't mean that much. If he enters the ring, he'll be noticed.

He's had some work done recently, it makes him look weird like a turkey. His old cuddliness is gone. Also I saw him on Bill Maher and he struck me as a gloaty douche (bragging about Bin Laden, etc.)

Not that that would disqualify him. But he is off-putting to me.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

jeffersonlives posted:

I think it's much more likely that it's internal NJ politics than national chess stuff. Could be his Newark opponents (several of whom were quoted on the record), could be one of the other machines that doesn't like him, could be a union move, could be Lautenberg, could be Christie, could be another state Democratic contender for those primaries, etc.

That was also the article that mentioned his running into a burning building, but in the same sentence said that he cut fire services. It was pretty close to saying HOW CONVENIENT CORY :tinfoil:

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

quote:

Booker says he will consult with Democrat Frank Lautenberg, the 88-year-old senator whose term is up in 2014 and is the oldest serving senator.

"It would be a privilege, an honor, to continue his legacy of service," Booker said.

Lautenberg spokesman Caley Gray said in a statement that the senator was focused on disaster relief and gun control and did not have time to talk about "political distractions."

:drat: "gently caress off whippersnapper, I'm not dead yet."

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Oh, they existed all right. I saw one at the precinct caucus. She was an old white lady in a raincoat, and her white-bearded husband wore a pained expression as she went on about how Hillary earned this, and who was this Obama anyway, and he doesn't have any experience and we don't know who he is, and HILLARY EARNED THIS :qq:

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Joementum posted:

Oh for gently caress sake.


Any of the dozen people in this story could have done something about this, but nope. We get a Cory Booker Heroically Rescues Freezing Dog story instead.

Well, in truth it's kind of a "Cory Booker puts his high Klout score to use for the health of dogs everywhere" story. The man is an absolute press whore but issues like this are exactly the kind mayors should be weighing in on.

But yes, save us Cory, he saved a woman, he secured Hot Pockets for the people of Newark, his water will mingle with our water, etc.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

cheese posted:

Ask Mitt 'Mittens' Romney how well the "double down on Benghazi as a scandal" attack angle worked. It didn't work then, and it won't work in 3 years. Hillary should be so lucky that the Republicans count on her involvement in the Benghazi "scandal" as their silver bullet to kill her campaign.

I enjoyed Senate Republicans kind of glumly following up on the now-pointless Benghazi inquiry this week. Way to give Hillary a springboard guys.

I wonder if Huma picked the concussion-frames. Hillary is at the opposite end of "pulling off horn-rims" from Wolf Blitzer:

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Romney tried to hammer Obama on Benghazi and the entire country literally laughed at him in real time. The echo chamber remains the echo chamber, and those are the only folks talking about Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Solyndra or whatever the hell else.

Obama's lame duck moves--pushing for an AWB, immigration reform, women in combat--will be much better fodder for the GOP in 2016 than any of the 2012 bullshit.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

FMguru posted:

The answer:
Long publishing lead times had Bush writing his book last fall, before the election. Between the writing and the publication the GOP shifted hard on immigration, and now instead of being a liberalizer on immigration, Jeb looks like a hard-liner. And now he has to go out on a book tour for this suddenly-toxic policy.

Oops.

That's what you get, fatbush, for hitching your wagon to the GOP. I remember how the pigs scrambled after the election, free of any pretense. "We lost because there are too many freeloaders in America! We need our own freeloaders...Catholic freeloaders!" And this is as well-thought out as any GOP strategy from the last ten years.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Did anyone else catch John Thune toward the tail end of the filibuster last night? He was full of praise for the Senator from KY. He went so far as to liken him to that other filibustering Senator of iron principle, John C. Calhoun

quote:

But I take higher ground. I hold that in the present state of civilization, where two races of different origin, and distinguished by color, and other physical differences, as well as intellectual, are brought together, the relation now existing in the slaveholding States between the two, is, instead of an evil, a good--a positive good.


~The Handsomest Slaver~

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

watt par posted:

Did he hike his pants up to his nipples because he lost a bet with someone?

He has two choices. He can go full Oliver Hardy and hike'em, or hang his gut over his belt and look like he works at Fry's.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

DynamicSloth posted:

The Reince Priebus dream team supposedly put their heads together to come up with a solution to this whole losing the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 elections thing, this and paying Karl Rove's lost couch change to people to go to minorities and tell them how swell the GOP is is literally all he came up with.

These are the people who maintained that calling Obama a "metrosexual black Abe Lincoln" would break the back of his campaign. Or at least, these are the circles in which they all travel.

More outreach at CPAC (apologies if posted):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQf9_oflU9s

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
But how will Cruz surmount the "faker, more simpering Joe McCarthy" vibe that he gives off at all times? I'm hard-pressed to think of a presidential election that was not won by the person who appeared the most sincere. Cruz will never poll well with people who can hear tone of voice and read facial expressions.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe


I guess I wasn't thinking of incumbent races. Once a guy has been on the job for a while people seem to give him a little credit.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Chelsea Clinton is by all accounts a rather lazy young woman. (said the goon)

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

The Entire Universe posted:

I'm not saying she's lazy, I'm saying she doesn't have the kind of relation to electoral politics that's a de facto requirement these days. It's not like she sits around doing nothing, she just hasn't ever taken an elected office.

I'm saying she's lazy. Her "job" with NBC didn't have to be a joke, but her work ethic made it one. If she had no family connections she'd be posting in the Lost Generation thread.

woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 7, 2013

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

The Warszawa posted:

Speaking of "are there racists in positions of power and influence" ...

Hey now, Rand Paul doesn't have a racist bone in his body. He just thinks that whole "letting black people into restaurants" thing was not the place for the government to interfere with business.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

rscott posted:

I was just telling a friend of mine that Christie was unelectable because he was fat and all the other republicans hate him, then she told me he was having a press conference for his lap band surgery and I pretty much went, "welp". Hope the rest of the republicans hate him enough because someone like him in the White House kind of scares me.

We already have someone like him in the White House though?

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Alter Ego posted:

Christie never survives a Republican primary, even without weight issues. He has a hair-trigger temper and that Jersey Shore BS doesn't fly anywhere but New Jersey.

He will inevitably flip out on one of his Tea Party opponents in a debate when they bring up the fact that he acted like a human being during the cleanup for Hurricane Sandy.

Americans love being ordered around and Chris Christie is "guy who stands up in the lecture hall and schools the professor" chain e-mail in human form. Bill Clinton pulled that move to his advantage any number of times (usually when somebody questioned his numbers).

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woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe
Republicans Less Willing To Confront Feelings About Justin Timberlake

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