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Super Robot Fighter had its first playtest this weekend. It kinda sucked. Doesn't have the right feel or anything. Everyone had a good laugh, but theres a lot of work to be done.
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Jan 8, 2013 15:33
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This is more of a business question, but it's very closely related to how I want to get my games (any myself) out there. Is there a point where I, as a designer, should be looking into becoming a business? My current gameplan is as follows, finish Ghosts of Whixly Manor and Super Robot Fighter before the end of March, while at the same time setting up a website and offering some PnP versions of older games, as well as some RPG design projects I'm doing, for a Pay-What-You-Want donation. I intend to use this platform to attract some followers, use my Social Media know-how and continue trying to get published through one of the smaller indie publishers. My only concern is some horrible IRS scenario where I take in too much donation and get sent to white-collar prison for Board Game Design gently caress ups. Any advice, thread? Also, if anyone would like to read over the draft/cards for Super Robot Fighter and Ghosts Of Whixly Manor, let me know, I'm working on Google Drive and love having more comments.
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Jan 30, 2013 22:24
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Is it cool if we link to our own sites and stuff here? I'm just starting to open my own website for my designs and work. I want to have a big section on games design and have helpful advice and links on there too, right now its basically a longer, more difficult to read version of the OP+Second Post. Hoping that having a website and cultivating a small following, it might be easier to attract publishers attention. I'll also be offering PnP downloads for games that have been rejected or games that I've put aside. Either way, is this a good idea? I figured artists and the like have portfolio websites showing off their stuff, and that apparently helps attract attention and an air of legitimacy, and I've seen a couple people doing similar things (Sun Tzu Games) to great effect.
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Feb 5, 2013 18:34
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Alrighty - http://sandypuggames.com/ Things are still settling, I have some more artwork incoming for some of the pages but I think it looks pretty good right now. I'm especially proud of the insane logo I've settled on. Should have another playtest for my robot fighting game soon, and I'm hoping to have it finished with Whixly in Playtest by the end of the month. A friend of mine has recently shown interest in games design, and he has some ideas that he mentioned he wanted to 'pitch' to me. It feels really weird being seen as an actual designer with like, authority on the matter, when all I have to show is 3 half finished, unpublished games. It's neat though, and I think collaboration would be good. Does anyone have any experience co-designing games?
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Feb 5, 2013 19:12
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My major in uni was very focused on group work. I'm totally with you on that point. I get people coming up to me literally all the god drat time with such incredible advice as 'Well you should do x!' or 'Why Not Kickstarter!!!' and I make a point to smile and nod then walk away quickly. This guy is pretty together though. Fairly accomplished in his own projects and he's helped me plenty with my works in the past. Your post just made me flashback to the uni years and how my final project was supposed to be split between 5 people and ended up being me and one other guy working for 9 hours a day in a small computer room for weeks on end. One interesting sidenote here though, is it's interesting how game design is simultaneously a very creative and very non-creative venture. It's a lot like programming in that you're still making A Thing from nothing, but it's not a readily accepted Creative Form.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:20
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Sorry for the minor derail from the pretty interesting talk going on, but theres a sale on for a game called Arcane Legions. I can't vouch for the game itself but its $6 and comes with like 120 minis. Might be a great addition to any designers Spares pile - http://www.miniaturemarket.com/wls000.html
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Feb 13, 2013 17:28
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So I've been ironing out the last details in Ghosts Of Whixlys first draft, and I'd like to get some feedback from you cool chaps. So the game is basically a resource management mechanic. You each play one of 4 exorcists who are competing (in a semi-co-op way) to deal with as many ghosts as possible. The gameplay works through actions, you have 3 actions per round and may move, search, dispell a ghost, use a special ability or trade. The game takes place in a Mansions of Madness style board, so modular tiles based on a map. Ghosts are summoned every round and placed in the house. You then roll a D4 and move that many Ghosts closer to the exorcists. The ghosts do damage when they reach the exorcists. You deal with ghosts by spending one of four resources. Each exorcist will generate one of these resources every round, they can also be found by spending a search action. Each resource also has a special power that you can spend it for instead; Create an impassable Ghost Barrier, Shield from an attack, Slow a ghosts movement. In addition to this, the House itself has a 'damage' track. As more ghosts pile into the house, the House starts to break down, when the track reaches the bottom, the house falls apart and everyone still inside dies. Object of the game is to exorcise as many ghosts as possible then escape before the house kills you. Winner is the person with the most ghosts slain. This is still early days, first draft stuff, so I'm not 100% set on any part of this. Thoughts? Ideas?
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Feb 13, 2013 19:19
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Anyone up for some playtesting? Its a bit early days, but my playtest group has been nonexistent and I need to get some time on it. It's for Super Robot Fighter, the game I was posting about last month where you assemble a robot out of random parts. Supposed to be kinda wacky and fast. Let me know, anyway. Edit; I'd like to ask for some advice on a resource mechanic too. The game I've been rambling about this month, Ghosts Of Whixly Manor, has 4 resources. These are how you 'defeat' ghosts and gain points. I have 4 mechanics for resource collection that I'm working over. To start with, when I began, I had the mechanic just rolling a D4 and drawing a resource related to the number you roll. So, roll a 4, gain 1 Incense, Roll a 2, Gain 1 Holy Symbol, etc. Then, as I worked, I kinda moved away from Randomness and started rethinking the resource mechanic. In addition to the original idea, I now have the following; Each character is good at one resource. When they spend an action Searching, they find any 2 Resources, or 2 of the one they're proficient at. Roll a D4, you get that many resources to assign as you wish. Probably include the rule about only getting 1 of each, 2 of the one you're good at. Draw Points, areas of the map where you can search and draw 1 of a resource. One area would be a Holy Symbol draw point, one would be a Prayer Bead draw point, etc. Thoughts? I want to try and keep random rolls and stuff to a minimum, but this kind of game kinda invites them pretty readily. Nemesis Of Moles fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 16, 2013 16:59
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xopods posted:There is always a better way to do things than a straight die roll. Dice can be good, but "roll a die, take as many resources as the number you rolled" is kind of unimaginative and doesn't leave any room for strategy. It's funny, almost any other aspect of literally every game I've worked on, I'd agree but resources in this are crazy abstracted, all of those mechanics are just ideas I'm ripping off of other games, not really narrative focused ones. What I'm trying to find here is a middleground between what I feel is too much agency afforded by 'When you recover resources, recover them however you want' and the too little agency given by the dice rolls. I think my fave right now is the 'Search, Recover 2 Resources to assign as you want'. It should give the kind of tactical gameplay I'm looking for in this game, but it still feels a little 'loose'. It's lifted basically wholesale from Battlestar Galactica. The overall idea for this game came about when I played Ghost Story and some of the players were getting stressed out that the dice rolls weren't going their way. I wanted to make a game with a similar idea (use of resources and abilities to deal with a problem) while minimizing the problems that some players felt.
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Feb 16, 2013 18:11
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Oh I like that, I think that'll fit really well. I'll give it a whirl.
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Feb 16, 2013 18:19
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xopods posted:Got several playtests done for "The Unnamed Game with Contracts and Push-Your-Luck." It works very well, and the luck factor is deceptive... it seems on the surface that there's a lot of it, but I think that in reality, it's possible to have enough of a skill edge to win just about every time. There are definitely a lot of good heuristics for players to improve rapidly over the first few plays, which is always good. drat, your turnaround is insane dude. How 'Pretty' should a prototype be? I know we've discussed this a lil before, but every time I make a game, I get the urge to make it less rear end or barebones (the artwork for Super Robot Fighter is literally Squares and Filltool for the version I have now).
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Feb 18, 2013 19:47
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I hate to tangent again from the awesome news xopods, but I had a new idea for a game I want to run past the thread, see what you guys think. My games club recently got Wiz-War, the new FF version. I started playing with a group and it was a hell of a lot of fun and comparisons to things like Quake and Unreal started arising. It got me thinking, a FPS deathmatch arena style game may be some fantastic fun. The madcap run-grab-shoot mechanics of Wiz-war already were fantastic, and I'm wondering what speeding the game up, adding powerups and maybe random weapon pickups would do. I'm gonna finish up the two games I have right now, and then maybe mess with Wiz-War itself first, but I was wondering if this is already a game, or if anyone had any ideas/thoughts on it.
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Feb 19, 2013 00:25
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Crackbone posted:Frag by Steve Jackson games tries to do this, but it's not very good. Might be worth looking at for some pointers on what not to do. What is Frags main mechanic, just out of curiosity? Thanks for the tip, fella.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:06
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DirkGently posted:Piles of Rad Ideas Thanks, lots of these are great ideas, and I like the concept of a momentom system, though I think in practice it might be an issue. It could be really frustrating to end up careening all over the place without the control you'd expect in a FPS game. Might be worth a try though! On the lack of things to do, I think that boils down to a lack of creativity. QuakeGuys could lay down bombs, trip mines, create plasma walls, bounce grenades, I mean the fiction is the easiest part here. I know modern video game guns generally boil down to "Shoots harder" but if you take inspiration across the board, there's not really much you do in Wiz-War that doesn't happen in a game somewhere. hito posted:It's been quite a few years since I've played Frag (Deadlands), but as I recall the biggest problem with Frag was it's stupidly discrete damage system. So often you would do exactly one damage, so a lot of it was ordained well in advance, and the luck that did mix it up was not really controllable. Thats kinda silly, you'd want some level of randomness, but the idea of tweaking Tannhauser works. Also reminded me I have Tannhauser Minis I can use to test this, so thanks! Crackbone posted:D6s. Oodles and oodles of D6s. See, Dice seems like a silly way of going about it, if ever there was a time for a fat deck of cards, this would be it. Imagine having several preset spawn points, a couple preset weapon spawn places. You run through one, pick up a card. Could be a crazy powerup, a weapon or something. Spend the card to use that weapon, discard it, grab some more. I think this idea has legs. I have my next game lined up  Minor Aside; Anyone else really annoyed that Wiz-War 8th mentions a whole bunch of stuff about Creatures, but the rules for what creatures are, and indeed any cards centered around minions, are wholly missing? I guess they planned some expansions but it never happened. Oy. Nemesis Of Moles fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 02:50
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The hidden info thing actually reminds me of an idea some friends had when discussing game design with me. They came up with a Risk-like that used flat counters as armies, with certain values being bigger/smaller counters. You'd put them facedown and only reveal once the counter is 'scouted' or something. They wanted to simulate Fog Of War. I was kinda stoked cause that's a really nice, simple and easy to test game idea they came up with on their first try. Edit; for the shooting game, what if you had a pool of actions, which you could spend on movement, switching weapon (represented by a growing hand of cards you drew whenever you went through a draw point), using Alt Fire, etc. You spend the pool and after you're done, whoever is in your LOS, depending on the rules for each specific weapon, you fire/stab/whatever. Have the defender roll to dodge, maybe let them use interrupts/shield cards to auto-dodge, then inflict damage. How does that sound for a mechanic? Nemesis Of Moles fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 15:59
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Yeah, they had a lil more to it that made it not quite like Stratego, but it was obviously heavily inspired by it. I didn't say they were highly original in the idea or anything, it was just awesome to see someones first design idea not be like, 30 decks of cards and a bunch of complicated subrule stuff (Like my first game was. Oy.)
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Feb 19, 2013 16:24
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Osmosisch posted:Sorry, I didn't mean to come off negative about their idea, I was hoping you'd go into the non-stratego aspects, and how they tried to get closer to fog of war a bit more. Oh no, I didn't read it as negative, we're all cool dawg. I'd have to talk to them again and get the full idea. One half of them is the guy who I was thinking of collaborating with earlier, and they hate talking about half-formed ideas with me cause they don't want to me to think of them as the kind of people XoPods was warning me about. I remember me asking if it was like Statego and them saying 'Sort of, but' and giving some other mechanics but I'm drawing a blank now. I don't think Hidden Movement/troops would work well in the FPS style game I'd try to make. Already you're running around a maze like a jackass and while not knowing exactly where your opponents are works for a game where you're moving and shooting constantly with 15 other players, it probably won't translate into a Turn Based 4-6 player game.
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Feb 19, 2013 16:40
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I guess when I was thinking of the idea, I didn't really think of it in MLG style phases and action plans, but closer to twitch, reactionary style play. I think both have some place here but the action queue style stuff is a different feel than what I was originally thinking. I think it might actually be a better game though.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:11
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Me neither, which is one of the reasons this has been a rad discussion. Differentiating between the things that I can capture, and things I can't, is kind of an important lesson when trying to transfer ideas across mediums.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:27
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So quick question; I'm building a prototype right now and wondering, how important are copyright concerns here? I have a game I made ages ago that I don't have on my site cause all the artwork is EDF art that I applied some filters to. Obviously for just playtesting, I can just steal and use whatever I want, but say I wanted to shop this to publishers, are they gonna turn me down the moment they see artwork ripped from Betrayal or am I generally ok?
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Feb 20, 2013 22:37
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Would colored square stuff work for like, rooms and junk? I always feel that sort of incredibly barebones basic look will lose me points. I'll email Travis though. Thanks.
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Feb 20, 2013 23:14
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DirkGently posted:Depending on what you need (and how much and how soon), I could generate some solid karma and do some quick vector drawings for you. Thanks for the offer man, I might take you up on it when I'm doing a final draft prototype. I'll just a couple of rooms drawn from topdown. And thanks for the suggestion on Inkscape, I'll give it a look.
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Feb 21, 2013 00:24
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Loving the design chat. All of this is really useful to me. Could I show you guys my ruleset for my new game? Hoping to have a prototype done by today but I want to see if I'm missing anything in the rulebook right now.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:49
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So at the expensive of seeming like a bit of an idiot here, I want to suggest everyone start a website for your designs and any extra stuff you do. And put in a donations page. My site has a couple of my games up there for PnP, as well as some Dungeon World sheets I made, and a couple other little bits and bobs. This month I've gotten enough in donations to basically pay for any prototypes and the site itself and still have a little bit left over to pay for any expenses. Now granted I have been showing off the site a lot, and writing for it in my spare time, but the extra couple bucks has been a huge help, I'm putting in an order for a pile of bits right now and I just thought it'd be worth mentioning to the thread. edit; Disclaimer, I'm not MAKING MAD BANK off of the site or anything, its less than $50. But thats still a lot of blank dice and featureless chips. Double Edit: Related to the previous point, anyone know of a good parts store online? I'm trying to gather up the usual blank dice, chips, rubber cement, etc, but nowhere has everything and I get killed on shipping at most places. Miniture Mart and, funnily enough, Gamecrafter have the best prices but they don't have any proper poxys. Nemesis Of Moles fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 23:03
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So just for some input, I think the key to getting some cash in return for your products/site is to make the donation a purchase. I offer all my downloads in one package for free, with an option to throw 1, 5, 10 or 15 bucks at me. I list the contents of the pack, and also, a bit cheekily, list how many downloads and how much money I've gotten so far. The key here is the free option, at least for me, I want people playing my games, I want to have a number I can show publishers and be all 'See? Tons of people like my stuff'. The site is basically an attempt at seeming much more 'professional' than what I am (Sandy Pug Game Design vs Some Guy In His Pants). That's Priority 1, and that's why I write a lot of 'How To Design Games' and have lists of useful stuff to buy and do, websites, and contact info for publishers on the site. I mean, one thing I can do is promote myself, and that may have an effect on matters. I link pretty heavily when its relevant and have a good lot of traffic coming to the site. I don't want to make anyone think that there's just tons of free designer money out there; just that it is a thing to be aware of. Plus there are tons of reasons, some more valuable, to start a portfolio for your designs.
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Feb 26, 2013 05:50
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So Whixly is finally at Playtest, and Super Robots just went into its next revision. On top of that, Sandy Pug has been getting a fair chunk of attention from the Dungeon World sheets I made, and I have an interview coming up for an indie games site  . Now, to find actually find a publisher and get paid for all this effort 
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Mar 11, 2013 16:10
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Railing Kill posted:I guess I'm just thinking aloud here about when a game is done enough for publication, and how valuable Twitter has been to me. I wouldn't have said this last year or even a few months ago, but I really recommend Twitter for this stuff. My account is pretty much exclusively for networking with game players, designers, and publishers, mostly because it's tied to my board game podcast. Because most of my followers are gaming industry people, it's a good one-stop-shop for publishers, both small and large. I had a hard time manually slogging through the 'net for small publishers, but Twitter has amassed quite a contact list for me over the last few months. I'd love to hear more about this. How did you start connecting with people through Twitter? What kind of things do you do to maintain that presence? I'm in a similar place though with 2 of my games, though one of them I'm pretty sure I'm ready to scrap. Right now though, I'm in some of the final testing phases for Ghosts Of Whixly Manor. Its evolved a bit since I last rambled about it to everyone and has become a really neat game about players managing their actions and forever walking this fine line between working together and trying to go their own way. The color based resource mechanic that came from this thread has been a smasher too. If anyone would be up for some blind playtests, let me know, all you need is some little mans, everything else is printable. On top of that, I wrote a short sort-of-series about Games Design for my website. Its a very very simplistic look at the process of design from the point of view of a first time or very small time designer. - http://sandypuggames.com/?cat=3 Thoughts? I tried to toe the line between being too simple and not actually explaining anything, while still trying to be accessible for someone who has no idea how to make a game. Most 'How To Make A Game' guides online are absolute shite that focus a lot more on like, physically building the product and less about the process before and after.
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Apr 4, 2013 21:13
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I just wanted to pop in and say that the last game I designed is being tested by a publisher! This thread gave me some awesome ideas and I doubt I'd have taken this so far without you guys. I'll keep you all posted on how this goes.
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May 25, 2013 18:02
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I doubt it, I'm not under any NDA or anything. To be safe I'll just say its the last game I was asking for help over in here.
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May 25, 2013 19:13
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So I'm basically abusing this thread a bit to toot my own horn, but I won Quantuum Magic's prototype contest today! http://quantuummagic.com/wp/win-prototype-contest/
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Jul 30, 2013 20:40
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I'm going to Gencon this year thanks to a really awesome donation from a friend of mine. Any tips on how to get myself out there while I'm at the con? How should I go about trying to show off my games? I have two prototypes ready to show off.
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Aug 8, 2013 18:40
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Yeah, same thing happened with me way back when. 'Oh i'll make this simple robot fighting game, hit people, yaay  'Only game I've ever outright scrapped and thrown away. Could never get it to work.
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Aug 29, 2013 03:39
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Glad to see you back Xopods! So I did Gencon. It was a rollercoaster of frustration, exaltation and then more frustration. Got to meet face to face with a lot of publishers, managed to demo one of my games but missed out on a lot of designer heavy events which I'm annoyed at. Still, lot of new email addresses for the Sandy Pug New Game Mailing List. Quick aside here - Compared to every other industry, damned if our publishing model isn't great. I highly recommend hanging out at conventions if you have games ready to show off. Its probably the best way to actually get in touch with people. That said, no closer to publishing any of my games yet, though one company wants a prototype sent in. In the same email the chief designer also said that he wasn't sure if he was really into it though, so who knows. My latest game has gone through hell and back, and is, what I think, close to show-off-to-publishers time. I've also been working on a RPG just to keep myself fresh. My newest game is Arena Shooter. I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm sure there's more to improve upon. Been playtesting a while now though and I think it could do with one or two more tests, then its time to show it off, here's the rules PDF if anyone wants to have a gander - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68455681/Arena%20ShooterV4.pdf
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Sep 4, 2013 18:19
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Ugh, I had the worst playtest ever over the weekend. So I'm testing my latest game, Arena Shooter. Alls going well till one player notices how, if you wanted to, you could sit on your spawn point, drop traps everywhere, then wait till everyone else died. He also pointed out that with how the hand refresh mechanics work, you could amass basically all the cards if you spent the whole game trying to do so. I thanked him for noticing that, shot some ideas back and forth about how to fix it, then watched as he made the playtest take 4 hours by doing exactly the above. I wouldn't mind so much, but as he told me the issue, I pointed out that both of these would take hours, and you'd not likely win anyway due to the way points worked. It was really frustrating, it meant the other players just got really annoyed and their feedback wasn't as good because by the time we finished, we'd been playing for 3 and a half hours. Not to mention how many times I made it clear that, yes, ok I see the issue, thank you. At the hour and a half mark, he was just making the evening lovely for everyone and bogging down the whole process of playtesting. Silver lining is I patched that up and got SOME feedback from people, and I know not to invite that dude over again. He didn't even win.
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Sep 9, 2013 15:24
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My issue is that after finding a problem, identifying it, then demonstrating it, the dude spent the next 2 hours proving that it was infact an issue. An issue that we all agreed existed and needed fixing before he basically wasted an entire playtesting session. I'm not annoyed that he found a way to break the game. Thats exactly what playtesting is for. Its that he spent the entire session making everyone miserable to prove that, yes, if you spent the entire game sitting in one corner of the map, you may very well survive till the end. If through the act of demonstrating it, he showed something unexpected or a unique way the game broke outside of what was plainly obvious, then fair enough, that didn't happen. I know sometimes breaking one thing can show how other things are broken, or offer ideas on smarter fixes for the game, but 4 hours spent on one issue thats fix is exactly the same as when we identified it? That's not really a productive use of anyones time.
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Sep 9, 2013 18:34
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I'm emulating arena FPSs, so the solution was to allow people to spawn on spawn points that people are standing on, the person standing on it gets instantly killed. Telefragging is a mechanic in my game.
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Sep 10, 2013 02:16
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thespaceinvader posted:You know those dice Mage Knight uses to determine mana availability...? Those dice do one of the things that Xopods pointed out as a kind of satisfying randomness. They change how the environment of the game works for everyone, not just one player and the player has access to many different methods of gaining mana outside of those dice.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:04
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Your dream stole my illuminati game idea Count Blanc 
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Sep 11, 2013 20:39
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So today I started emailing people about my newest finished game, and I already have two people asking for prototypes! Eeeee Almost a year since I started making games, this is about as far as I've gotten beside that one thing with my last game that just fizzled out.
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Sep 16, 2013 21:27
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| # ¿ May 9, 2024 21:47 |
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So for the past 6 months I've been working as a Social Media consultanty thing manager guy for a couple people on the forums. This past month I kinda accidentally ended up doing it for some Kickstarter and indie board game people, and I thought, what the hell. http://sandypuggames.com/?p=909 If this is too self whorey, I'll remove the link an junk. Basically I'm offering some really extensive and in depth social media training and management stuff for insanely cheap, for anyone who doesn't really know it themselves. Figured maybe one or two of you guys might find it useful. CirclMastr posted:I've been working seriously on a board game with a friend of mine for about eight months now, and we've come to a rather annoying problem regarding game pieces. It seems to us that board games with miniatures/figurines are more desirable and do better on Kickstarter, where we hope to get funding. The problem is that manufacturing and including minis in the game is prohibitively expensive. We're already looking at an MSRP of $60, and minis would likely push that to $90-100, which would be a really tough sell to retailers. So, the questions are: Minis are always a pain in the rear end, which is why you very very rarely see them involved in a KS. Getting custom ones manufactured is just out of the realms of viability for mostly everyone who doesn't already have backing or deals with manufacturers. I'd suggest going with your third option, offering proper minis for a (high) KS reward tier. A lot of Big Games are $80-90 these days so I don't know if it's going to be that bad of a sell to retailers. Someone with more experience printing professionally should chime in here though. Which manufacturers have you been looking at? What's your current plan re custom minis? edit; This VVVVV Nemesis Of Moles fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 19:12
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