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WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Haha My husband would totally move there, if it weren't so ridiculously expensive.

We're looking for future dog. Bud could give a poo poo about training, his favorite thing in the world is walking straight down a path as fast as we'll let him (huskies lol). It's really easy to accommodate, but it's a bit boring. I do want to eventually take a CGC class with him, and maybe do nosework just for fun, but he gets bored SO FAST. That's something I'm really wanting a new dog for, to do more fun activities.

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WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

I know someone that works GSDs and Mals in FL, but I'm not sure where. I'll see what I can find!

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Yeah, she DOES look Mal in that last picture! SHE'S SO PRETTY!!! I've been waiting all day for pictures, because I'm a loser. :3: Congrats again, she's awesome!

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Ooooooohhh my god I'm so excited. Just had a long talk with one of the trainers at the SchH club I was looking in to, and they seem PERFECT for us!! She kept stressing how they don't tolerate people that are harsh with their dogs, or backstabbing with other people. She also said that the main protection helper/trainer has two really young kids at home, so he would be a really great resource for help raising a high drive dog with a toddler. :dance: She also said some things almost verbatim that Chris Wild told me about checking out a training club and visiting multiple times before ever getting a dog, and a lot of things to look out for with being new to the sport. I'M SO loving EXCITED! We're going out to watch them train on Monday. :dance:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

DenialTwist posted:

It may also be important to note that she does not have a crate but does have access to her "den" in the master bedroom away from all of us but she is too much of a velcro dog to utilize it.

Well dangit, that's what I was going to suggest. :P My dog is *mostly* fine with groups, and is a husky so he doesn't have those herding dog problems, but he does start that pacing and stuff after a little bit. I think it's just too overwhelming with a bunch of people in the house and the change of routine. So, after he starts getting like that, we just put him in his crate so he can get some rest. It's like he doesn't have to worry about it anymore. How is she with being separated? I'm guessing she'll show even MORE anxiety if you were to lock her in the other room, right?

I think you're in a tricky area as far as training it out of her goes, because obviously having all those people there is too much for her to handle. She's herding people back because she wants to be able to keep an eye on everyone. You want to remember to encourage calm behavior on her part even while everyone is just sitting around, regardless if it's someone leaving the room. Give your friends treats to give her so she sees them coming in as the bringer of good things, rather than suspicious people to keep tabs on. I think most importantly, though, if you can manage it, would be to start smaller. It's like training any other reactivity or any other thing that makes a dog feel uneasy. You want to bring them to the point JUST before they go over the top, and slowly increase the "distance to stimulus". In this case, the stimulus is groups. So maybe start with just one friend coming over. Have treats raining from the sky, and see if you can get her to settle down. Bonus points if she settles and you can have the person leave while she's not giving a gently caress. Ideally, work with just one person, then start changing it up, but keeping it only one person at a time. Once she's fine with that, increase it to two. Keep going in that fashion, etc.

Thing of it is, I understand that's a lot to ask of your friends! So in the mean time, try to manage it as much as possible. Try to work on independence games, as well, where your dog has to use her own brain to work as opposed to looking to you for instruction. You're already doing nosework, right? That is very much the sort of activity that will help her in the long run! :)

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Well shoot, I had you confused with someone else. :downs: Yeah, pretty much anything that has her thinking on her own is good. Nosework, tracking even more so, puzzle games, etc. Agility actually isn't isn't so fantastic for it because she constantly has to look at you for instruction of what to do next. It's great for building bonds and pushing boundaries when it comes to odd situations, but you're looking for independence rather than bonding. Sounds like you guys have had a hard time with those things, and obviously you're making strides in working on them. Just keep moving in the right direction! All this stuff is connected.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Double post, wah wah, but this is just loving hilarious and I would totally want it for Future Dog if I wasn't 100% positive my husband would think it's too sad:

http://www.julius-k9.us/nobodylovesmevelcrolabel-p-24.html

(Triangulum, did you already post this before? I think you might have...)

It's made to fit on this harness:
http://www.julius-k9.us/juliusk9originalpowerharness-p-2.html

I have a feeling after going to see the club train tonight, I'm going to be more determined than ever to get involved with SchH, I hope we can actually manage it. :ohdear: I'm honestly thinking of dropping my (EXTREMELY small) side business training so I can focus on my own dog and just do that all the time. Much more fun allocation of funds than paying for business insurance, right? :iamafag:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Geeze, and here I was wondering if staggering protection work every other weekend for budget's sake would be stretching it too far. :( How does that affect the work you've already done? If we CAN space out protection a bit, it might be more affordable and reasonable.

So, since you're a beginner, too, what equipment would you suggest to start, and what would you like to get down the line? What about the different phases, differences in ideal collars, harnesses, etc? I'm going to ask the trainers at the club, too, but it's better to get a broad sampling of suggestions. :) What are your favorite suppliers, too?

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Thanks! You've given me a bunch of fun stuff to look at. :allears:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

OH my god, today was so much fun!!! :dance: Everyone at the club was just so nice and inviting, and it was just non-stop GSD talk and it was wonderful. :3: I've never seen so many stunning animals concentrated in one place before, it was great. It was nuts talking to so many like-minded individuals, too, it felt like a goon meet. :iamafag: I told my husband, chatting with the one trainer was like she was answering questions I hadn't even asked yet. Yeah, long story short, I REALLY do want to do SchH, and definitely with this club. The only concern, now, is being able to afford it!

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

a life less posted:

This girl posts her progress with her (loving amazingly gorgeously beautiful) puppy on another forum I frequent. Love her. The videos she posts show a really amazing progression as the pup matures. I expect you do be doing this with your dog ASAP.

http://youtu.be/6HLsCruyjHM

E: Because I'm smitten.



I finally got to a computer to watch this, that music choice is hilarious, haha! She IS a really pretty girl! I love how fast she scoots her rear end around on the turns.

It was really interesting watching the showline dogs work yesterday. They were all doing really well, but you could see they were antsy. Then this BEAUTIFUL sable working-line girl comes out, and she's rock solid, all business, agile, quick as poo poo... AND I guess even though the lady had her for awhile and did obedience, she only just recently started her in protection. I know the club doesn't discriminate, and they were mostly showline dogs there, but drat could you see a difference in the work ethic!

OneOverZero posted:

So glad to see this because I grew up with a GSD / Border Collie...

What cute dogs! :3: Thanks for sharing!

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Triangulum posted:

I know I've mentioned a few times how much training recall with a ball has changed Vecna's compliance and how awesome the book Schutzhund: Theory and Training Methods is

I went back to look this up, do you have any more reading suggestions now that you're really involved in the sport? As good as you say the book is, I'm hesitant on anything over 20 years old. :shobon: (Although, I'll probably still pick it up!)

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Stregone posted:

She seems to have finally picked up her search command. Which helps alot keeping her focused. After she finds a hide I can say "Where is it?!" and she spins around and pokes the hide again :3:

That is just too cute. :3:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

cryingscarf posted:

Probably would have been more helpful to include this with your first reply to the king shepherd stuff. Sludge seems to be handling it well, but better to educate someone than risk chasing them off and then post good info. I mean, I can see how someone who isn't as involved in the dog world could fall for shiloh/king shepherds and instead of shaming them like notsowelp said, give them a friendly nudge in the right direction. If they then continue to be stupid? Attitude is justified.

Edit: and not to mention, I have been reading up on archives and many PI regulars were innocently clueless to stuff like this not long ago (myself included). You have to start somewhere.

Yeah, this. :shobon: As much as I absolutely agree with you, Triangulum, we were all ignorant at one point. Putting someone down before they know any better doesn't help them learn. I really wish I did have archives, because I'd love to be able to go back and read some of the stuff I'VE written and likely cringe at it.

notsowelp posted:

Frankly, show shepherds are gross and pointless too: at least 'King Shepherds' don't appear to be literally crippled by their conformation - plus, their community seems to be super big on health testing too. If someone is looking for a pet GSD, where would you suggest they go? Frogdog show lines? Super hardcore working lines? Being snooty at people for being drawn to a GSD type dog that isn't falling apart in the rear and/or too intense and drivey to fit comfortably into their home is dumb and counterproductive. The breed is a mess, I'd far rather a novice go to a ~~byb~~ breeding for sane conformation and doing health tests than get some wobbly-hocked no-butt travesty from a show kennel.

Ok, so here's the problem with the large dogs... even with health testing, not having a sloping back or flat hocks is only going to go so far. Down the line, larger dogs with more weight are going to be more prone to hip and other joint issues, even if it isn't hip or elbow dysplasia. They're also going to be more prone to bloat. If you're looking at meaningful structure, you're looking in the wrong place because the size limits agility and endurance, two hallmarks of the breed. There's just plain no reason, health or otherwise, to be breeding larger dogs.

I have a notion that the majority of these people that get starry eyed thinking about the GSDs they had as kids are just skewing their memories. Even if you're talking less angled show lines, the standard size still hasn't changed. The thing of it is, when we were little, WE were smaller, so EVERYTHING seemed bigger. Of COURSE we could go up to these dogs and give them huge hugs, they were as big as we were. But it doesn't mean they were bigger than the breed standard, that's just not right. So, look for a moderate, male, West German Showline dog if you want a blocky head and a chance at long coated pups, but don't change what the dogs are entirely just because you want to feel like a kid again.

As far as what I would recommend for people interested in seriously researching GSD lines and breeders, I'd say to really get a feel for the type of dog you want, and really research not only lines, but the types of dogs breeders are looking to produce. Dogs have both nerve and drive. Drive is what keeps them wanting to work all day long, but if they don't have the nerves to go with them, that's when you see those skittish dogs that don't know how to settle down in the house. They're constantly on edge because they were bred from lines that only care about the sport and the "GO GO GO" part of it without keeping a clear head to go with it. On the flip side, you'll have dogs from show lines that have practically zero drive for work because they are SO bred to be calm and at ease in the show ring that it takes a lot of effort to get them moving. It's important to find a breeder aiming for the sort of dog you're looking for temperament wise, that breeds the STRUCTURE of dog that you're comfortable with, and that has a list of health tests a mile long (AND knows the health history of their lines, and is willing to share that information, good or bad). If you can weed through the breeders, the forums, the training groups, the clubs, and come out the other side, you'll find exactly the sort of dog you're looking for.

This is why I've been researching GSDs for 5 years, and still no puppy, btw. :sigh:

Sludge Tank posted:

Didnt mean to put people against each other.

Do NOT feel sorry in the slightest!! Dogs in general, but GSDs especially, have a lot of controversy surrounding them. They naturally breed conflict, but having discussions like this is how we educate eachother, bring in new perspective, and hash out our own ethics on the situation. I happen to think in all things in life, we should strive to maintain fluidity in our opinions, because there is absolutely zero chance of any given person being right 100% of the time, and these things carry with them a lot of gray areas. So honestly, thanks for posting, because it's bringing about some great conversation. :)

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Was she bred by Mittelwest? They're right around the corner from here. Are you near Chicago by chance?

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

GUYS! Maika von Wildhaus is up for adoption! :stare: She sounds peeerrrfffeecctttt...... :cry:

Edit: And they had to spay Heidi!!! :cry: I'm so sad!! :(

WolfensteinBag fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Aug 23, 2013

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Skizzles posted:

To those of you doing SAR, how much of a pain in the rear end is it to get into and how much would I hate myself for doing so? It'll be quite a while before I get another dog, let alone get into anything seriously. But SAR has always piqued my interest. I've heard it's a massive time sink and a ton of work/stress, though. In the future I'm looking to either get a rescue GSD or a Groen (it's all still up in the air, I might just wind up with a border collie, hurr). I'm also curious about trying agility, and perhaps some plain old nosework.

If you don't want to go full-blown SAR, but you want a step above nosework, you could look into trailing clubs. I think bloodhound clubs get really into it. I learned about it through CsVs, the club is looking to those trailing competitions to develop a breed survey for CsVs in the future. It uses air scenting like you'd use in SAR, which is much more direct than tracking with the nose to the ground. Or you could even just get into tracking (AKC tracking is more lenient on air scenting than SchH tracking is.)

In the mean time, I got this book when I was first getting interested in SAR stuff. I have to admit I haven't read the whole thing yet, just up to puppy training stuff, then skimmed the rest, but it not only goes into training the dog, but also all the poo poo YOU would have to know about setting search patterns and not getting your rear end lost and stuff. Once I started really thinking about and being honest about that part of it, I knew I'd only ever get into it as a hobby, unless I didn't work or something. I don't multitask well, haha. But the book is awesome for trailing in general, it has all sorts of exercises/games to play with your dog to teach air scenting. :3:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Man, this is amazing! Someone posted this video in the GSD forums, this dog is trialing for his IPO3, and scored 99 out of 100 points. He is SO happy and clear-headed the whole time, it's so fun to watch! He's a super handsome dog, too:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Your dog is beautiful, thanks for posting!! Would you mind sharing where he's from and/or his pedigree? :haw: I really love looking up dogs and breeders. That is so awesome that you work with your club, too! Do you do all the phases of SchH? Is it a large club, or something smaller? We're still waiting waiting waiting for our dog, but I've done nothing but research in the mean time, and I love getting to read about other people's experiences. :)

Also, I'm so sorry about your last GSD. :( DM is horrible to watch, I had a client with 2 siblings, and the female wound up with DM. I know there are issues with the test and all, but I really feel that the only way to learn more about it is for breeders (and even just owners!) to get their dogs tested and at least use that information a LITTLE when deciding on a pairing. Feel free to post pictures of your West German boy as well! We might rag an awful lot on non-working line dogs, but I honestly feel that the different lines are good for different people. I've also seen some beautiful dogs of ALL types, it all depends on the breeder. I actually considered a West German dog for a while, but it seems like that nervy temperament crops up too often, and I really want the odds to work out for a dog with a rock-solid temperament.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

I think you're being too hard on Malloy! He's definitely large and a little off, but when I hear "West German Show" and someone is being critical of their own dog, I'm expecting to see this:



And large dogs like that give the best hugs. :3:

Your pup is absolutely stunning, can't wait to see him grow up! That's so funny and true about working line dogs looking "serious" earlier, I'd never thought of it like that before. Must be something about them being smaller.

So I'm just curious, why aren't you planning on doing the protection phase? Is it something you might change your mind about later on? The club I was looking at tends to lean a lot towards show line dogs, but there was one working line dog the day I went to see them. It was crazy how much more serious and focused the dog was about the work. The best/craziest part is that they said the owner had only recently decided to work in protection, and the dog was already a few years old (I wanna say 3 or 4, but I could be mistaken). I thought it was interesting that there was this dog who hadn't grown up doing bitework showing more drive and seriousness than a bunch of dogs who were raised doing it. I guess the owner had said her dog seemed like he went, "FINALLY!" once he got to start, too, haha. At any rate, it's encouraging to see things like that, so you don't have to feel stuck if you think you don't want to do a sport, but change your mind years later.

Edit:

Hey! Depending on how things go, your dog and my future dog could be related! :dance: Are these the parents?
http://www.zutreuenhanden.com/Deja.htm
http://kulladogs.smugmug.com/Pets/Athos-von-den-Wannaer-H%C3%B6hen/i-vvsq9mF

Your dog's grandsire on his mother's side is V Hannes vom Spadener Holz? That's also the sire of the dog that might end up being the dam of the dog I get. :haw:
http://www.wildhauskennels.com/isis.htm

That's so funny! It's also funny that I actually recognized a dog like that, haha. It all depends on what happens with their litters, if there's something for us at the right time, etc, though. But I have my fingers crossed!

Oh, also, Bill Kulla, the breeder of your sire, is out by me. :) Small world! Are you in the midwest, I'm guessing?

WolfensteinBag fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Oct 10, 2013

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Awwwww, son-of-a-bitch!! We're busy this weekend!! :( Stupid niece's birthday...

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Finally getting a chance to really reply to all of this!

Pez Rattie posted:

Well, remember that stacking makes for a more extreme looking angulation. However, his mother was extreme even when not stacked. Here were Malloy's parents:

Father: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=130421-carlo-vom-holtkamper-hof

Mother: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=337123-ginie-vom-altenberger-land



See, I still don't think your dog was as over exaggerated as either of his parents. It could be the pictures, but I don't see so much of the roach in the back, and some WGS dogs are so large and over angled that they practically look like english bulldogs in the rear. Like you could cover up either half of a picture of one, and your brain would fill in the gaps entirely different for the part you're not seeing (if that makes sense!) Either way, you're dead on about how hard it is watching a dog go through that. Aside from my client with DM, my in-laws had a GSD with horrible, crippling hip dysplatia. :( She was an awesome dog, her name was Freedom. She came from a breeder that pretty much took no stock in what they were breeding aside from "large family dogs". So to be fair, her temperament was outstanding, but her structure was atrocious, the poor thing. I loved her to death, she passed away way too early.










quote:

You are right, on the parents! My breeder was zu treuenhanden. Hannes was Deja's sire and Deja's mother, Vala, was a gifted tracking dog who has produced search/tracking/police dogs as well as accelerant and drug dogs and Athos' sire came from a dog named Urs. I have a ton of information about the producers on both side of the pedigree, and what has come out of them. The odds are genetically stacked in my favor!

As for the protection phase, that is because I haven't yet decided which route in SAR I'm going to go. Currently, the state of Illinois USAR does not support HRD (human remains detection) and do live find only. HRD is one of the distractions planted in the certification tests, so I wouldn't be able to train for that. On the other hand, another SAR team who does both live-find and HRD does not allow protection trained dogs. You and I both know that dogs trained in this type of work are very stable and safe but they err on the side of caution probably considering some of the handling that does go on out there in that area, depending on individual and group practices.

I haven't decided which way I'll go - with IL USAR or the other but I'm tending towards the live/HRD.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that depending on the sire Isis would be paired with, that could be, should be, a great union!!!

Oh, I hadn't thought about the SAR teams not allowing protection work! It makes sense, though, like you said, not everyone trains the way they should, and the last thing you want is to find a missing person and have the dog put them in a bark-hold, or worse! haha I'm super interested in the trailing method that's used for SAR, but I think, at least at this point in my life, it's too much dedication for me. It might be all volunteer, but the work involved is like having a second job, and my next dog is going to be for sports that can be a stress reliever for me. But I'd love to hear how you train for it as you go through the process!

So do you mind my asking where in IL you are? And what groups you work with? I'm trying to get to know the community here. I live south of Chicago in the suburbs, and I've been looking in to Topline for SchH training, but I'm on the fence as to what I want to do with a young pup for obedience classes, since I haven't gone to see the Topline classes for that, yet. If you don't want to talk about it here, you can PM me if you want. :)

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Holy crap, that thing with the plastic bottles is hilarious!! That does look fun, and more serious as far as the training needed on the dog. We're just looking for a club to go out and have fun, though, if we never title, that's fine with me. Talking to the people at Topline, it seems like we have a similar mindset. Bonding with your dog comes first, if you happen to work towards titles, that's cool, too. Not to mention where they train is super convenient for me! Love to know more options exist, though, you never know how serious you'll get until you're actually working with your dog. :)

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

AAAHHH!!! Wildhaus finally has a timeline for a litter, and are breeding Isis!! :ohdear: Currently working on my husband about getting on a list for a potential puppy in March.... :ohdear:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Pez Rattie posted:

The dog is also most likely a kenneled working dog, not a social animal and was uncomfortable during the situation previous to the demo.

Totally didn't think of this, but it's probably true. When the dogs get their "working" gear on, all of a sudden they understand EXACTLY what is expected of them. Just out and about, not so much. I'm glad there's more places moving away from this situation and having the dogs in their handlers' homes, you would think you'd want a dog to be more socialized for various situations, right? Guess it could be a liability thing, though, or they ONLY want the dogs focusing on work? I was just watching a show about it the other day (police dogs in general, just a little half hour show about working dogs). They were showing the dog training in a subway station with a guy wearing a sleeve under his jacket, and the dog bit and held so hard (and then wouldn't let go, not very good! haha) he had pieces of the guy's jacket on his tongue. :haw: The dog was living with his handler, and the guy's wife said she was nervous about him at first, but can't believe how he could go out and do what he does every day, because at home he's just a big, lovey dog. :3:

Edit: Oh yeah, a life less, if you're interested in the training aspect, I had someone in the GSD forum post this link for me, it's pretty great! Goes through all sorts of stuff with starting a puppy and training in SchH and utilizes positive reinforcement (although it still lists a pinch as recommended starting gear, because the dogs get big? I dunno, I'd think you could teach a dog to walk on a flat collar if you could teach it all that other amazing stuff with a clicker...)
http://www.schutzhund-training.com/index.html

My favorite was watching the videos of puppies starting in scent training. :3:

WolfensteinBag fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Oct 31, 2013

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

That is an awesome picture, thanks for posting it. :3: I'm so jealous of your nosework stuff, it seems so fun! I keep talking about bringing Buddy to a nosework class because I think it's the only sport he'd ever have the patience for, but it hasn't happened yet. GOOD classes are hard to come by. :/


Wildhaus finally posted their breeding plans, so I'm trying to keep hopeful! Right this second, things still aren't working out for a puppy. :cry: Big thing of it is, my husband just finished school a little bit ago, and he's been trying to land a better job. So blah blah blah, e/n bs, that's sort of the thing holding us back from going for it. BUT, Wildhaus just posted that they're planning to breed Eris for the last time in the spring/summer, so there's another litter in the works if we miss out on the breeding with Isis, so that's making me feel better. Both litters are going to be interesting, and very similar to the last litter they had, which is working out amazing for them, apparently. The temperaments they're expecting sound perfect for our puppy plans, so I'm just hoping hoping hoping things work out at this point. :ohdear: After all this time, I'd hate to have to wait ANOTHER year...

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Hahaha It's less about patience and more about being prepared and researched to a fault. :downs:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Totally agreeing on the littermate thing. Raising one puppy is enough work on its own without adding to the frustration. Think about how much work it is for people who have twins. Much easier to have one, then add another in a couple years. :)

As far as breeder recommendations, I don't know anyone in your area, but a good place to start your search might be the forums at germanshepherds.com. Keep in mind, you'll have to take a lot of their suggestions with a grain of salt, because not everyone has the same standards for looking at breeders. But at the very least, you'll have a list of breeders to start looking in to. They'll give you some good things to think about, and you can always share the breeders you find here, and we'll be more than happy to give our 2 cents. :)

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Malacept posted:

I will definitely just be getting one puppy to start now. I found two breeders near pittsburgh:

http://www.kirchenwald.com/

http://www.wolfstraum.net/ (what is up with breeder websites looking straight out of the early 90's?)

Kirchenwald might be my best bet. I'm looking for more of a working-line companion that can stay active and healthy. What do you guys think?

Well, I only did a glance over the two and haven't dug too deep, but from what I've seen, I personally prefer the second breeder. It looks like the first breeder deals with mostly West German Showline dogs, so that's a different "flavor" of GSD than the second, who is breeding working line dogs. For WGS dogs they do seem to have a decent structure and aren't ridiculous with the roached backs, but it really looks like their main focus is showing since that's how they got started in the breed in the first place.

I really like how the second breeder talks about temperament, and that's something really important if you're looking for a family companion that's going to be able to settle in the house:

Wolfstraum posted:

Solid Temperament and nerves - The ideal in temperament for the breed calls for a discerning intelligence. The ability to distinguish a threat, the ability to function in a social situation in an appropriate manner, to live as a devoted companion and a protector of family and home. The ideal personality combines confidence, both socially and environmentally, loyalty, sound nerves, strength of character and a dog who is at home on the couch, or on a working field!

Working Drives - The German Shepherd is first and foremost a working dog, too many breeders lose sight of the "whole dog" while attempting to "fix" characteristics of color and appearance or of some specific ability. DESIRE to work - to hunt, to discern between a threat and a neutral situation, to protect, to guard sheep or home and family.

Don't let a crappy website deter you from a breeder. Not everyone is able to make a good website or pay someone else to do it for them. The thing you need to look at is whether or not they're good with the DOGS, whether they're breeding for health and temperament, and whether they seem like they're actually accomplishing their breeding goals instead of haphazardly throwing two dogs together.

I'd say you're off to a good start in your search. Now is when you start digging a little deeper! :) You want to contact any breeders you're interested in and find out specifics of how they test and track health in their lines/puppies, how the puppies are raised, how they evaluate temperament to place the puppies in the best homes, etc.

Here's a great (long) guide to help you get started asking questions. It's definitely worth the read, as it's aimed at prospective GSD owners. Remember not to limit yourself to breeders right in your area, too. There are plenty of GSD breeders here near Chicago, but I'm personally more interested in the ones I've found in MI and WI, and driving for a day to get the perfect puppy for my family and my goals is worth it to me. There's also the option of shipping a puppy, too!

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

I'm so glad you posted more pictures! He sure is growing up handsome. It sounds like you guys are having a blast, I can't wait to start getting into all that fun stuff. It's awesome that you're doing real detection work, too, I just do not have the dedication for that serious commitment.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Holy crap is she pretty!!! :3:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Ok, so seriously.... how does The German Shepherd Dog Club of America manage to have This:

GSDCA posted:

Topline-- The withers are higher than and sloping into the level back. The back is straight, very strongly developed without sag or roach, and relatively short.The whole structure of the body gives an impression of depth and solidity without bulkiness.

RIGHT next to this picture:



:psyduck:

I mean, it's like they've never even read it.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

I really
REALLY
REALLY
like the way this guy talks about dogs. He sounds like he approaches temperament in the same way Wildhaus does that made me really want one of their dogs. In general, someone breeding for WORK is going to breed for a better temperament, because the dog needs really solid nerve. I know exactly what that guy is talking about in relation to kennels that focus on sport, and that's exactly the reason I'm going to end up going two states over for a dog when I could easily get a sport dog that's only about an hour away.

I'm really interested to read more on the site. I'd say as long as there's health testing to back it up, on paper the guy knows what he's doing in terms of temperament.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Aww, thanks! :blush: Good to know the gobs of over researching is coming in handy, haha.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Pez Rattie posted:

Honestly, "stacking" them exaggerates the topline, though the picture of this dog, which is obviously American lines does look to have a sloped back in the first place. Here is a video showing a straight-backed dog being stacked to elongate and stretch them, giving the dog more slope then it appears to have. If we looked at that dog in only the stacked position we would think he was more slope-backed then as you can see, he really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGX0G-KTlAE

I meant to say thanks for posting that video! I always wondered why show stacked dogs always looked like they were going to fall sideways when stacked. I still maintain that dog has too much slope, though. :colbert:

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Saw this on Facebook, I'll just leave it here...

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

Merry Christmas to me! :dance:


So excited to read this, finally! Really starting to gear up for possible new puppy.

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

:neckbeard: Yay Xmas bitey faces!!

WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

GUYS. I guess I've spilled enough on Facebook, I might as well talk about it here. Depending on how our tax return shakes out with paying a bunch of stuff off, we might be ready for a dog sooner rather than later. Just in case we're ready in time for the Wildhaus P litter, we're penciled in for wanting a pup, and yesterday I finished up and send over a questionnaire that ended up being, I think, 12 pages. I'm totally on edge here, guys. :ohdear:

http://wildhauskennels.com/litters.htm

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WolfensteinBag
Aug 7, 2003

So it was all your work?

So on a scale of 1-10, exactly how crazy would I look if I decided to use this for our training/trialing collar? :allears:
http://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Pets...fursaver+collar

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