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RE: the talk of AE making an appearanceNaegi at the end of DR1 Chapter 5 posted:Alter Ego saved my life. Putting aside question of how Naegi would know that, the game made it seem like what was left of AE pretty much expired in the system after he used his effort to stop the execution. Just wanted to bring up the line for a refresher; I may be interpreting it wrongly. I also think our survivors had reason to believe there was nothing left of AE at the game's end, or they would've checked for him before leaving. VanSandman posted:Yeah. If it's Togami. I'm not convinced it was. Why didn't he mention that he'd been through Monobear's poo poo before if he was? He's hinting pretty hard at it during this bit in chapter 1 (also another tick in favor of this being a sequel rather than prequel or concurrence): orenronen posted:
Seems like he's talking about his experience of being locked up with others in the first game, and that this conversation was meant to solidify the belief that he's the same Togami. He did imply he wanted to talk about it eventually, and that he'd actually have no choice but to do so if their island life remained peaceful. Why peace would be the condition to necessitate him "having no choice but to tell", I don't know.
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Nov 18, 2013 03:27
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There are things in my past I can't tell anyone about... They are the reason I became so prone to suspicion.
There were people I couldn’t trust... and people who couldn’t trust me. My life was like a nightmare...
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 18:53 |
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Van Dine posted:Looking over the conversation there, I think it's more likely that what happened was that they were baffled about how a normal guy like Hinata could get into Hope's Peak, and then one of them told the others about the prep school's existence and they realised that he probably wasn't going to the main Hope's Peak after all but to the prep school. The prep school's function is to funnel funding into the main Hope's Peak, preying on the hope of the prep school students that they might get some reflected prestige from attending there or that it might help them get into the main school. It looks to me as if they felt sorry for Hinata's parents for spending their money on getting Hinata into the prep school. This makes good sense to me. One of the students said judgmentally, "well, he's free to revere whatever he wants", which doesn't seem like something a fellow prep school student would be saying. All prep school students would share the same reverence for Hope's Peak, the same hope for getting in. It seems like they're trying to set us up to think one of the despair-ridden will kill, since Ibuki was caught wandering around and Hinata commented on the strangeness of that, but I don't think the murderer will be one of the infected. Killing under influence of fever removes responsibility for the killer's actions, and that's not in keeping with Monobear's trend. I have more faith in the writers than that, especially after they got everyone to believe they were pushing the serial killer angle again up until the last minute.
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Jan 18, 2014 15:25
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Van Dine posted:Togami in DR2 seemed nicer and much more focused on protecting the group than Togami in DR1 ever was. If Togami really has older brothers, maybe DR2 Togami is one of them? I don't think so. After the fourth trial, Togami changed how he handled the situation; he realized that uniting against Monobear was actually the best solution, and became a leader in the fifth chapter. He'd come into this second go-around already prepared with the awareness of what's the best bet for overcoming: group cooperation and an understanding of each other. He retains what we know and love of the Togami from the first game, still that condescending air and sense of self-importance. I think the differences that have people believing he's an impostor are just nuances that show his character growth (haw haw  ) from the first game and possibly from whatever happened in the interim between the two games. As Togami himself said when talking about his past,orenronen posted:
This is also my thinking regarding Kuzuryuu's change in approach, which had people theorizing that could be attributed to despair fever. As you mentioned in one of your last posts, his personality's still the same (still the vulgarity and bluntness when he's aggravated!), he's just gone through some character development that changes the way he's handling things. I also feel like the bits of conversation Togami's had that hint at his past are genuine clues that point to him being the real Togami. Yeah, one could say if he's an impostor, he's just throwing those in there to further convince people that he is who he says he is, but what need is there to do that when he already looks just like Togami, has the same height, the same mannerisms, and sounds exactly the same? Those characteristics are really all he needs to ensure that anyone who knows of Togami will believe he's the exact same person. Psychodrama fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 23:02
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Poulpe posted:I'm guessing you were only meant to look at those images for a few seconds each and not even notice how tall the person is. Normally I'd agree, but I only looked for a split second at those images while reading the update. Initially, based on the first picture, I assumed Saionji's build matched the figure and thought "yup, has to be her", then doubted myself immediately when seeing the second picture. That's just me, though. I guess it could be Kuzuryuu also, but something has me thinking it's Saionji in the first pic...maybe it's just a trick of my perception since her usual outfit fits her similarly to how the robe's sitting on the figure. Baron O Beefdip posted:Guys, it can't be Saionji because: Everyone said Junko couldn't possibly be Monoluchador in DR1 for the same reason, and well
Psychodrama fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 02:33
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TKMobile posted:Mikan, on the other hand, has been desperately trying to keep all the invalids alive or in care all this time to the point of exhaustion. She's had, what, between two and four days to construct any sort of murder set up, but if most of that time was actually spent tending to her charges, then it becomes that much harder to buy that she was plotting anything or killed two people. Has she really, though? After she said two lines which first drew my suspicion towards her (dissuading Hinata from checking in on Ibuki, and then later "I'm gonna rest; why don't you go into the lobby?"--where coincidentally a video transmission will be ready to start playing! Not a set-up at all!), I started thinking she might also have the best opportunity for killing here. We only have her word that Nagito was in danger of dying. From then on, she's always seen watching tirelessly over him. I've been wondering if his condition really was as dire as she said. Maybe she was contemplating murder since before that, and saw the role of a sole someone's caretaker to be a means of avoiding suspicion. It gives her the illusion of an alibi when she might not really have one; Hinata and Kuzuryuu won't be suspecting her because they'll be assuming she was too busy looking over Nagito as constantly as she had before they left. Her seeming exhausted serves to make that more believable, but she could be affecting that. Mikan's actually only been focusing on one patient, not watching over them all equally. She said so herself in this last update, and we saw it for ourselves when Hinata caught Ibuki wandering off due to lack of supervision. If Mikan was seen to be tending to all her charges, then she would quickly be asked how someone could've gotten in or how Ibuki could've gotten out without Mikan detecting it, and that'd make some suspicion fall on her. Instead, everyone will now be thinking she just didn't notice anyone entering or exiting because of her exhaustion while staying at Nagito's bedside, and she'll avoid being questioned. Come to think of it, it doesn't seem likely to me that a SHSL Nurse would be ignoring her other patients even if someone was in danger. I'd think someone with her nursing skill could definitely find a way to make sure the others get some care. It's not like leaving Nagito for a moment would cause his death if she cycled her time between him and the other two. I don't know if I like the idea of Mikan stumbling upon Saionji murdering Ibuki. I'd think Mikan would've gone to Hinata for back-up instead of search for Ibuki in the middle of the night all alone. She'd have either had to come prepared with a weapon in case of encountering a murderer, or just so happen to find something capable of slitting Saionji's throat lying nearby in the club--the last seems too convenient, the former seems like something she wouldn't do. None of these kids ever seem to think of being prepared for possibly coming across a killer. I feel like I do agree with you that Ibuki seems the most likely to have been the original target given the planning of the video, yet Saionji's death seems almost equally well-thought out if there's truth to the thread hivemind's prevailing idea that her body was hidden on the pillar. And compared to Ibuki's corpse which still has color in it, Saionji's has a pallor tinging on blue to my eye, which is making me wonder if she was actually killed first. I'm not going to put much stock into that observation unless and until the characters remark on it, though. Maybe the killer wanted to reveal Saionji's body last, hoping people would think it really occurred while Hinata was on his way to alert others about the first body, so as to make it appear like it happened at a time when the true perpetrator couldn't possibly have done it. It could also serve as a possible frame on Hinata; the killer might be hoping the others start to suspect he's lying about only discovering one body on his own, in order to cover up his own involvement. Hell, maybe the killer's just hoping the other kids' brains give out while trying to figure this one. 
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Jan 30, 2014 08:21
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TKMobile posted:Actually... Hinata did feel Nagito's forehead, which was burning up, and he loving passed out immediately after Monobear explained Despair fever. He was the only one who had to be carried to the hospital. Kuzuryuu and Hinata were there at the hospital all day with Mikan doing her thing to the point where she tried to nap on top of Hinata. That night, Kuzuryuu was the one who discovered Nagito was barely breathing, not Mikan. Nagito had the lying fever; if he had any energy to do so, he would have lied about his condition, and did before going into a fever coma. Now, admittedly, how long he was actually under the effects of this is up for debate, but we can assume he was hosed up pretty bad for awhile, at least, and that Mikan honestly did need to devote most of her attention to administering to him. In fact, she was so busy with that, during the second day of the hospital, she didn't even notice Hinata walking into the room until he spoke directly with her and it freaked her out. Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting he didn't have a fever in the first place. That did occur to me as a possibility a few updates ago, but then I went back and saw that Hinata had tested Nagito's forehead along with all the others, just as you're saying here. My thoughts after that weren't that he was feigning fever at all, but rather that Mikan might've been pretending that his condition was worse than it really was. Point made about Kuzuryuu being the one to notice it looked like Nagito wasn't breathing; I'd forgotten that. So it wasn't something she was lying about...but it's possible as time went on, she exaggerated how badly he was still doing, to use that as a pretense; if she was forming plans, she'd want to make it appear impossible for her to have carried them out. It might be worth noting that Mikan says the next day that she thinks he might getting worse and we have only her word for that. True, whenever the light turned blue the past two times, it was always when a live call was waiting, but maybe if recordings can be sent, it acts just the same way? If it definitely was recorded live, well...whatever the case, I think it wasn't Ibuki in the video. There'd be no need for the tote bag then. I'm still perplexed by perspective as the figure in the first picture immediately brought Saionji to mind, and others pointed out the way her obi looks now might hint she'd been in the robe prior. But that poses more problems: if my observation about the corpses has merit, it couldn't have been a live feed because Saionji definitely doesn't look to have been killed recently enough for her to have been the one in the video. Not to mention, in the second picture, the robed figure seems like they'd obviously be too tall to be Saionji if standing straight. So if one believes the video was live and also thinks Mikan was the mind behind the video, the idea that fits in most with that is the makeshift room theory--supported by the presence of two stepladders--with her playacting as Ibuki. Again, that poses a problem: there's only one tote bag, and in this scenario there'd need to be two. Of course, at this point it's possible Souda could be the culprit, but with the cameras involved, I feel like that'd lead back to him too strongly for him to be comfortable coming up with this plan. Psychodrama fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jan 30, 2014 |
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Jan 30, 2014 21:13
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Yeah, keep saying it's a slip of the tongue when you reveal details, Monobear. We all know it'd ruin your fun if the kids found the murders to be too difficult to solve.  Clarste posted:It seems blatantly obvious by now that the imitating the movie was just supposed to further throw people off the true timing of the murders. I doubt they really cared about being a copycat or planned a third murder, they just used every trick in the book to mess with the order. Which means that that's somehow key to the whole thing and knowing the correct order will make it obvious?  Reading that just made me remember something from the previous update. Who first called this a copycat murder? orenronen posted:
I remembered her talking about the copycat nature of it all, but seeing now she'd also deemed the order as "pretty obvious" coupled with that? My suspicion of her just keeps mounting, especially with Komaeda consulting her in the same update to confirm something mysterious. CuppaGodot posted:The only thing that still is something of a sticking point is that Mikan met him outside, and if the fake suicide was indeed performed in the break room, how could he manage to get out of a second story building in his condition. Not only that, but what the case entails seems too physically demanding for a convalescent like him. The act of murder, the manipulation of the bodies, the wallpaper placement and subsequent tearing down, and all the running around in between that would have him looking more run-down than he appears now, if it even would be possible for him to do all that in his state; don't think there could be any hiding it. I went back to check: Hinata mentions he and Kuzuryuu "explained the situation" to Mikan before they went to their cottages that first night, so there was at least one off-screen conversation that we didn't get to follow. I can't imagine they wouldn't let her know about the camera communication, but I guess I could be wrong there. I'm trying to be as objective as possible despite strongly suspecting Mikan. 
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Feb 20, 2014 10:22
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Yeah... I’ve seen everything, so, it’s obvious...
Besides, this is a copycat murder, so the order is pretty obvious anyway!
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mangoman321 posted:Thing is, I've been kind of turned off of the idea since then, since even if it was a massive collaboration between Mikan and Nagito, why then would Nagito make a comment about the murder not being made in the name of hope. Not only that, but I don't think he'd have had that consultation with Mikan from a couple updates ago if they were in on this together. orenronen posted:
The way I'm interpreting it, it seems like he's feeling Mikan out for possibility of involvement. Many were positing before that Ibuki was strangled, and that Mikan would look more suspicious if her assessment of the body aligns with what the killer wants them to believe (hanging). She maintains it's unquestionable that Ibuki died by hanging, and Nagito drops the conversation. He said he wanted to "confirm his suspicions" and her answer seems to have done just that; it seems to me that he suspected strangulation and the answer Mikan gave him instead confirmed to him she has something to do with this. But he wouldn't have started this conversation if he was her accomplice, right? I was going to say it's possible that he complied with her in his fevered state and forgot about it, but he was so freaked out about the idea of death when he was under the influence of Despair Fever. I can't imagine Mikan could've coerced him to do anything for her in his paranoia. Spatula City posted:more than anything else, the extremely elaborate, technical aspects of the murders point squarely towards Souda. Which is exactly why I'm not suspecting him as much. If I was the tech guy and wanted to commit a murder, I'd want to distance myself from a tech aspect, particularly something everyone knows I'd set up to begin with and had the best understanding of. It'd point right back to him rather quickly once conversation gets to the topic of the communicators, and he has no known alibi so I'd think if he had something to do with it, he'd be outed pretty fast. I do agree with you about the despair motive, though. Peko had hope Kuzuryuu could get out and Hanamura had hope he could find out whether his mom was okay. So this murderer has only despair in mind for some reason, but not despair caused by Despair Fever (insert usual explanation about lack of blame if the killer had the Fever). Sonia, like Souda, also doesn't have an alibi, but she's edged out by Kuzuryuu and Mikan in that Sonia hasn't said anything that could be construed as suspicious. Suspecting Kuzuryuu has its problems, as does suspecting Mikan. I already pointed out my issue with suspecting Kuzuryuu; we saw for ourselves how bad his injuries were. Yeah, he's getting better, but enough by now that he could do all this? Timing's so tight for Mikan to have pulled all this off, but if it's possible she did it, that'd just help her appear less suspicious. As it is, for both Kuzuryuu and Mikan, all we've got against them is behavioral observances that can seem sketchy, rather than any possibly incriminating evidence.
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Feb 22, 2014 04:07
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...Are you sure about that?
Hey, Tsumiki-saaaan! Can you come here for a second?
U...Um... Do you need something?
There's something I want to ask you.
Yep, there's that too! Well, that’s all I needed to hear!
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 18:53 |
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Van Dine posted:I will definitely miss speculating alongside the people in this thread. Yeah, I'll really be missing that. This LP was really a unique experience: a big group getting to hash out a mystery together with each added piece of information, and sharing in collective reactions to updates. I'm sure I'll be wondering what everyone else's thoughts would be at certain times of my own playthrough!  So thanks for giving that to us, oren, and for all your hard work translating. From what I have seen of the first game's localization, it's very good, but even so I'd say there's still some bits I saw which I preferred less to how you handled them. For instance, Mondo calling Chihiro "that dude" in the second trial, which stuck out like a sore thumb in the official game, as opposed to your subtle choice of "that kid". It seems like these kinds of translation decisions would definitely pose more difficulty with this second game (moreso now knowing that you've found two instances coming up which would make for tricky translating.) Ibuki makes many Japanese language-centric puns, and I'm curious what they'll do about all of Sonia's Japanese TV show references. And of course, I don't think anything can top DULL Start, but we'll see! I also wonder if Gundam's dialogue can match Fedule's awesome rendering of how he speaks  I'm really glad to hear you still plan on finishing DR0. Count me as another who's really enjoying it. Uh, speaking of novels, since the first game's English release, I've been following DR discussion on a forum that thankfully keeps spoilers strictly tagged, and I read there that a novel came with the release of the game in Japan. People seemed to think that it'd also be included in the Limited Edition release here, but it doesn't look like it, unless I missed seeing it when buying my copy. I'd look it up, but you know...spoilers and poo poo What's the deal with it, and is it worth a read like DR0?
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Jul 16, 2014 13:34
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