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Well, let's go ahead and advance to the last segment. You may read up to the end of Chapter 12, and everything above this post can be unspoiled. Lock in your theories, for the next chapter will reveal the culprit. For the American Version readers, the stopping point is 82% of the way through the book, and reads: I observed Paul's disregarded letter with some pleasure. Plainly, Joanna was cured of Paul.
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Nov 29, 2013 15:34
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This last section didn't seem to add much, except to emphasize some points. And maybe explain why Megan is in the story if she's not the killer to begin with :-) The murder was due to a man marrying the wrong woman, and someone wanted to bring a halt to that. It seems this can only be Mr. Symmington, which means that the death of his wife was very much an intended act and not a side affect of letter writing. This points to the letter writing actually being a diversion. The letter writer might have picked up the idea from something that happened up north. The killer knew something of the state of Mrs. Symmington, the jealousy of Mr. Symmington. Also note how methodical the maid was killed. Not blunt trauma, a precise piece of wood. A murder like that would, IMHO, require someone with medical knowledge. Like, the sister or a doctor, or someone who wanted to be a doctor at a time. The killer access the typewriter after hours. This is consistent with the Barton/Burton letter being a spur of the moment thing. (I would normally say this could also mean the killer is a male, but the last section actually hints against it). Joanna Burton is also after Dr. Owen, which might have been another reason to dislike her. All in all, this is consistent with my belief Aimee Griffith is culpable. There's two problems remaining: - Why did Elise Holland not get a letter? The last section even hints that she's now in prime position to become the new Mrs Symmington. I explained this before by the killer possibly not wanting Mr. Symmington to be stuck with the kids by himself, which makes sense if she cares for him. But another explanation would be that the killer actually wanted to give Elise a shot at Dirk. I don't know how to link that with Aimee, though. Maybe there's a hint in the description she gives of people she likes? - The hint regarding Wednesday or Thursday, but not Tuesday. We know the timing of the two murders was Wednesday, when the maids at the Symmingtons had a day off. But I can't find the clue here.
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Nov 30, 2013 10:52
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Miss Marple.  Why do these stories always seem to have a romance that pops up out of nowhere? Anyway, it can't be Megan now and I'll laugh if it's Mrs. Cleat, who has been such a non-entity so far. There IS one person that stands to gain from Mrs. Symmington's death and wouldn't have a grudge against Miss Holland. Mr. Symmington. Nash said Symmington didn't leave his office (he's like a lawyer?) on the afternoon of Agnes' death. I know the doctor said that the exact hour of death was vague but I just checked and apparently he went back to the house for lunch with Elsie and kids. No idea what to make of the Wednesday or Thursday message though. It's just scribbled on a telephone block and does sound innocent. Anyway, the list of suspects: - Mr. Pye - Miss Ginch (I barely remember her but apparently she's Symmington's secretary and had the timing) - Mrs. Calthrop - Aimee Griffith (definitely the most suspicious of the bunch) - Emily Barton - Partridge - Miss Cleat (the village witch, but I really doubt it's her; we've never even met her I don't think) There's also Mr. Symmington, Elsie Holland, Dr. Griffith, Megan, and the vicar, which rounds out the list of characters that have shown up.
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Nov 30, 2013 19:45
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I know your new let's play is cool and all that, but come back Prof. 
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Dec 13, 2013 02:48
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Dang. Is this all the theorizing we're getting out of this one? Okay, go ahead and finish the book.
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Dec 13, 2013 03:32
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I was just wondering if you'd forgotten us.  (Also the due date for the book is coming up  ) I guess I'll lock in Mr. Symmington based entirely on motive because I've got nothing and head off to read the rest. Miss Marple is a lot smarter than me.
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Dec 13, 2013 05:38
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ProfessorProf posted:Okay, go ahead and finish the book. drat it was looking so good for me for a few pages! We got most of the key elements though, just missed the relevance of the suicide note. Automncomet got the killer, so we can mark it as a success.
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Dec 13, 2013 13:31
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Very nice bait and switch there with Aimee.  I was completely had. If you want to give me the credit I'm not going to complain Prof but really I was just guessing at the last minute there because I hadn't locked in a guess yet and Skuto had already guessed Aimee.That suicide note was completely staring us in the face and we didn't get it. Romantic sideplots are always a bit silly feeling in mystery novels but Jerry and Megan feel natural together and I guess Owen Griffith seems like an okay dude. It's not like other novels we've read in this thread. Is  ) running the next book?
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Dec 13, 2013 15:32
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Autumncomet posted:Is (There were way, way too many people named Sherringford around the internet. I got a few too many "Hey are you the same guy from--" and figured it was easier to just change the name. Also Hopeford comes from Sherrington Hope, which was another name Conan Doyle had considered for(just like Sherrinford) before settling on Sherlock eng101: ...I'm such a nerd) I'm all up for running the next book, if you guys are up for some Carr. The Problem of the Green Capsule would be a good fit for the thread, I think.
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Dec 13, 2013 17:43
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Hopeford posted:I'm all up for running the next book, if you guys are up for some Carr. The Problem of the Green Capsule would be a good fit for the thread, I think. If you're looking at the Kindle edition, do not scroll down. There may be spoilers in the reviews.
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Dec 14, 2013 10:28
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Hopeford, did you die?
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Feb 12, 2014 08:01
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I'm totally here, I thought the thread had died and people weren't up for another book. If you guys are up to it, I can start The Problem of the Green Capsule whenever you guys want!
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Feb 12, 2014 08:15
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No, we were waiting for you
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Feb 13, 2014 02:51
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I'm keen as well since I haven't read this one.
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Feb 14, 2014 01:59
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Well, if you guys are up to it, I'm ready for it! The Problem of the Green Capsule. I'd recommend the kindle version since it's cheaper and it's a pretty short book. It has 20 chapters total. So how about we start going Up to the end of chapter 4? It's pretty short(under 40 pages to get there) and it ends on a really nice note. If I can geek out for a moment, this is one of my favorite John Dickson Carr books because he is clearly having a lot of fun with it. It doesn't have his "Supernatural" prose that comes with most of his other books and instead focuses on the murder mystery aspect of it to an almost cartoonish degree. It's like he went "I'm writing a puzzle—a great puzzle mind you—and I will make the story around it make sense, whether it wants it or not!" It's one of those books where the logic and plotting just feel...elegant. Hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did! (I have a few other comments about the book, but I'll shut up about those so I don't accidentally give out a hint) Hopeford fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 02:48
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Yay, we're back. Do you mean to the end of chapter 4 or the end of chapter 3, to be clear?
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Feb 14, 2014 03:23
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Oops, I meant to the end of chapter 4. My bad!
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Feb 14, 2014 03:25
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What's happened so far:
Of course, that's just Marjorie's POV and everyone else's is going to be a bit different, but drat. I bet the film is going to be mysteriously missing too.
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Feb 15, 2014 06:23
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I think Dr Joe must have been there, because otherwise he wouldn't have kept saying that he wasn't. Very curious what the deal with the film will be, too... Besides that I don't know really, haven't read enough yet.
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Feb 15, 2014 09:08
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Just got the book, will get started tonight. Looks pretty interesting on the Amazon page. Edit: Ok got caught up, and so far I think that whoever killed Marcus did it in part to take the heat off Marjorie. This makes the most likely candidate Dr Joe, as a family member. However, he is being slightly too suspicious at this point. George would also be a suspect for that reason - obviously not as the mystery interloper but he could have put the poison somewhere else (in a glass of water or something) where Marcus would eventually drink it or come into contact with it. Given Marcus seemed fine after eating the green capsule, I think it's likely that the poison was not actually in the capsule at all. I thought initially that it might have been a suicide by Marcus, to stop suspicion of Marjorie but that would have required him to beat up Walter. It's possible that it was Walter dressed up, then Marcus followed him out and knocked him out after he took off the odd clothes so that Walter would be in the clear. I don't know if that would be possible, it would depend if Marcus went offstage or shut the doors after the performance at all. Meander fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 04:56
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It's interesting that the book is emphasising the unreliability of witnesses. Usually if that happens in a story it'll be something like the witness is colour-blind, and doesn't realize a red scarf is actually yellow, or similar. Here though it seems like we're going to get at least one completely wrong or missing statement from at least one of the witnesses. Also I suspect that'll figure into the original poisonings, too.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:42
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Got book, caught up. Don't have much to note other than that Marjorie seems to know Elliot from somewhere that he doesn't want to be known from, and that I could really use a character/suspect list. Maybe after the next segment.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:40
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ProfessorProf posted:Got book, caught up. Don't have much to note other than that Marjorie seems to know Elliot from somewhere that he doesn't want to be known from, and that I could really use a character/suspect list. Maybe after the next segment.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:46
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You might be right. I didn't read that part very closely.
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Feb 18, 2014 01:52
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Not all that much info so far. I guess we should discard everything coming from an eye-witness. For that reason, we can't discount Marjorie despite the shopkeepers assertion. How could Marcus' assailant have known what show to put on? If he was totally off from what had been agreed, Marcus surely would've smelled a rat? Wilburt wasn't killed, so it can't have been someone who he knew and chatted up with him about it. Given Marcus' assertion that eyewitnesses are unreliable, and the bet from the Professor that he would recall everything perfectly, they'd had to have agreed beforehand on what performance to put up or it would've been impossible to verify. Unless they expressly relied on George recording everything. But the book made it sound like that was his own initiative.
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Feb 18, 2014 10:29
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I think we are all caught up on it, so let's go to the end of chapter 7. Just three short chapters, but it packs a lot of info so I figured it would be better to take it slowly.
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Feb 21, 2014 18:35
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I will probably have to reread this segment again. Some general thoughts: Our protagonist is nuts over Marjorie, and I am secretly rooting for her to be the murderer because that would be hilarious. Ingram is pretty savvy and I'm under the impression he knew a bit of what Marcus and Wilburt were planning. With the reveal at the end of 7, is Ingram implying that the chocolate murderer just swapped out a whole box when they went to the shopkeeper's? Strange that Marjorie and Harding both remembered a second pen-like object but Ingram said one wasn't there (and Marjorie claims the killer didn't go anywhere near it). I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.
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Feb 26, 2014 08:32
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It's very early in the book but I have this seed of an idea as to who's culpable so I'll spit it out. First, there is a problem in that we're lead to believe the murderer of Marcus, which can only be very few people, also has to be the murderer of the kids. Why would he or she kill the kids? Remember the previous murder Marjorie was associated with? This is the same, but in reverse: the killer first takes out some innocents to make it look like a killer is on the loose, and then takes out Marcus, who was his original target. Knowing Marcus well, as his family members ought to do, might have brought ideas as to what he was likely to do. Marucs was rich and cranky. Early in the book, he calls Doctor Joe incompetent, which angers the latter. He's a doctor, he has access to the chemicals. The clock is a critical point. We're told the time was accurate, Marjorie swears it is, all witnesses agree on this, but the policeman points out that this makes it likely wrong anyway ("that's probably the most thoroughly wrong of the lot"). On page 46 it's pointed out there has to be something in the plan that offers the murderer protection, and provide him with an alibi. The clock provides exactly the alibi to Dr. Joe. Marcus wanted to know the exact size of the box of chocolates and demonstrate how they were swapped. What is "Emmet" carrying when he does the swap? A bag marked as if from a doctor. So I find all of this pointing to Dr. Joe. But it's still very early. What happened to the "dart" Marcus was writing with? Where did it disappear?
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Mar 3, 2014 12:26
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I think enough time has passed we can now read to the end of chapter 11. It's a great stopping point that should make for some interesting discussion. It's around the time the book gets really interesting, in my opinion. Also as a small comment, chapter 9 has the most interesting footnote I've read in a long time.
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Mar 9, 2014 04:33
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Poor Emmet. If I had to pick an innocent person, it'd be him. He's been such a nonentity so far. The fact that Marjorie went to get the HCN (this would have been a great thing to mention earlier) really implicates her. Unless she was getting it for Harding I guess, but he could just make it himself. I feel like there is something very plainly obvious that I'm missing.
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Mar 9, 2014 05:46
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I think I burned out on my reading pace from doing 52 books last year, gonna have to drop out of this round. Good luck!
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Mar 10, 2014 01:52
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- The non-changeability of the clock, and therefor the doctors alibi, is reinforced, although it's still strongly hinted there is something suspicious there. - The change in the candy shop could be done by anyone, but they'd probably have to carry a bag. Like a doctors' bag. - Marjorie can get pretty bad temper outbursts. Her visit to the drugstore seems irrelevant, as she bought the same stuff her photographer fiancee claimed he used, and it's different from the murder poison? - Still unclear what the second pencil/dart was. Something to adjust the clock with, hmm? - The unnecessary question: I'm going to assume it perhaps wasn't supposed to be Wilbur giving the show after all, and his declaration afterwards was to mislead them into misreporting the height. Note that two of them (Marjorie, Harding) reported it as 6 feet, Wilburs' height. Five feet nine is the height of Harding and Ingram (but not doctor Joe, so this is a strike against my theory). - One (and no more) of the witnesses may be lying. The footnote also seems to forbid a collusion between for example Marjorie and Harding.
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Mar 13, 2014 14:10
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Sorry for taking this one a bit slowly, I was waiting to see if anyone else would catchup/join. Let's go up to the end of chapter 14. This is a pretty short book(20 chapters) so we should finish this pretty soon.
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Apr 2, 2014 01:13
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I'd like to join but I actually just read this one recently. Looking forward to the next mystery!
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Apr 2, 2014 04:19
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The last few chapters seem to reinforce what I said. Which makes me doubt it's correct. Need to think a bit about the Wilbur situation. Hiowf fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 16:11
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Well, Wilbur is dead, so at best he was working together with someone. Of course, the only hints of conspiracy so far, unless I'm misremembering, have been between Marjorie and Harding, so. I do think the best method of murder would be for someone to swap the capsule, but that would require someone learning about the plot ahead of time, which was ruled out? What confuses me is the motive. There's no reason to poison the chocolates in the beginning, unless the murderer really is just crazy. I could see them testing out the poison maybe, but surely there are better ways to do that.
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Apr 6, 2014 04:20
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:Of course, the only hints of conspiracy so far, unless I'm misremembering, have been between Marjorie and Harding, so. Didn't the footnote forbid that? At some point I'll have to reread the book with all the fresh info, but not now.
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Apr 7, 2014 08:19
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Alright, finish line! To the end of chapter 17. This is the point where you can solve the crime. This is a very, very detailed and elaborate solution so I wouldn't worry too much about reconstructing the whole crime. If you want to solve it, I'd try focusing on the major trick. Really fond of this book, but--but I should really save my comments for after this, right? Okay, let's get on with it!
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Apr 23, 2014 01:49
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The last few chapters just confuse me more. Good time to reread everything. Some thoughts: * The height of the killer. ** Introduction in the book: "Professor Ingram, a better observer than Marcus Chesney would have guessed". ** Marjorie and Harding: 6 feet (Wilbur, Dr. Joe). Ingram: 5 feet 9 (Harding, Prof. Ingram) or taller and bending knees. ** The unnecessary question suggests Wilbur's height, so it is probably the opposite. ** Movie shows 6 feet. (Strange hat?) Walk is consistent with Emmett (can be emulated?) * Harding ** "Harding is a red herring if I ever saw one" * Emmett ** Is in love with Marjorie. ** Scapegoat? * Fell ** Seems to exonerate Marjorie and Harding. ** Chesney wrote him a letter. Why? * Marjorie ** Can read lips. ** Has her reasons to get married. * Random ** Why is the cardboard box for the photoflood lamp that ended up containing the capsule a clue? * Motive ** http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_White_Ship_%28Dante_Gabriel_Rossetti%29 ** What's the point of the original chocolate shop murder? Could it have been aimed at Marjorie instead? Was Chesney murdered because he figured it out, or was he murdered because someone needed him out of the way?
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Apr 24, 2014 16:04
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* Why is the cardboard box for the photoflood lamp that ended up containing the capsule a clue? There are several references throughout the book about these lamps. Too many, for my taste. After the crime, Dr. Joe sends them away to the other room because the lamp may burn out, Fell is inquiring how long the lamps usually last, Marjorie is buying spare ones. There's a notable scene around page 82 were Ingram says nobody can have left the room during the scene, but Elliot says they can't check it because the lamp burned out. Here Marjorie wants to say something. Either that it's strange it burned out, or that she has a spare? Page 113 again hints it was strange the bulb burned out so fast. * Page 106 points to Emmett being a scapegoat. There's several paragraphs where the author hints it's important, but I can't put it together yet. * Marjorie and Joe Chesney will inherit Marcus' fortune. * The significance of the final murder attempt seems to be that someone still wants Marjorie or Harding out of the way? Or did they bet that Joe would accidentally shoot himself? * The list of characters says: Police, Victims and Poisoners. PoisonerS, not poisoner.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:03
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