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Know what I love, Book Barn? Mystery novels. The only thing better than reading one, though, is reading them together, and bouncing theories around! Thusly, I propose a mystery fiction group reading thread/game. The rules are as follows: 1. A book is selected. 2. The thread reads through the book togther, discussing the contents in the thread, elaborating on theories, in chunks of 3-5 chapters at a time. 3. When we reach the chapter before the final culprit revelation, everyone locks in their final theory for who dunnit. 4. We all read through to the end, and find out who was right and who was wrong. Winners are recorded in the top post. 5. Repeat with a new book. Spoiler Policy We're progressing through the book in chunks, allowing time in between each one to discuss and theorize about the new information revealed. When discussing the most recent chunk of the book, lock new information behind spoiler tags. However, when the thread moves on, it's fine to edit your old posts and de-spoiler them to make the thread more readable. Under no circumstances should you ever spoil anything ahead of what has been read. Spoiler tags or no, this is extremely against the rules. Don't even think about it, no matter how minor. Previous books: #1: A Murder is Announced, by Agatha Christie Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? We did! #2: Murder is Easy, by Agatha Christie Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? Pretty much, albeit with some confusion and guesswork! #3: The Ponson Case, by Freeman Wills Crofts Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? Not a traditional whodunit, but most of the key points were at least touched on! #4: The Body on the Beach, by Simon Brett Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? This was our first defeat! #5: She Died a Lady, by John Dickson Carr Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? We had a lot of the tricks correctly identified, but not the killer! #6: And Then There Were None, by Agatha Christie Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? Quite successfully! #7: Pit Prop Syndicate, by Freeman Wills Crofts Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? Not at all, sadly. #8: The Moving Finger, by Agatha Christia Discussion begins here. Did we solve it? Sort of! #9: The Problem of the Green Capsule, by John Dickson Carr Discussion begins here. Did we solve if? Nearly, but not exactly! #10: Crooked House, by Agatha Christie Discussion begins here. Did we solve if? Not even slightly! Future books: He Who Whispers, by John Dickinson Carr Thus Was Adonis Murdered, Sarah Caudwell Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2012 07:27
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It sounds like people want to get started, and there's near-unanimous support for compromise style, so let's go ahead and get going with the first book. You may begin reading, but stop reading at the end of Chapter 3 until further notice. If the pacing isn't working, we can always change it up again.
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 18:37
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Is 3 too early? I just chose it because that's when the crime is committed. If people want to have more substantial material to discuss in the first chunk, I can expand it. I'm figuring this out as I go here.
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Dec 12, 2012 19:11
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Some clarification about the situation! The following people are known to have been present at the house when the incident took place: Letitia Blacklock Julia Simmons Patrick Simmons Dora Bunner Mitzi Phillipa Haymes Colonel Easterbrook Mrs. Easterbrook Miss Hinchcliffe Miss Murgatroyd Mrs. Swettenham Edmund Swettenham Mrs. Harmon The mystery shooter (now deceased) Incidentally, for a spoiler policy, should we eschew the use of spoiler tags all together, or tag information from the latest chunk of the book being discussed? Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 23:17
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I'm starting to think a thing to do to make this thread readable would be to keep the most recent chapter spoilered, but encourage people to go back and edit old posts to de-spoiler them as we move forwards. Otherwise, this is going to end up as an endless sea of black bars. Not moving ahead just yet, though, people seem to still be working on the first segment. Maybe move on tomorrow morning?
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Dec 14, 2012 01:11
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I'll keep the OP updated about what's spoiled in the thread and what the current progress is.
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Dec 14, 2012 01:47
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All right, everyone go ahead and advance to Chapter 7. Spoilers above this post may freely be unspoilered.
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Dec 14, 2012 20:52
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To kick things off, a non-comprehensive list of straightforward clues from chapters 4-7! Chapter 4: The shooter was Rudi Scherz, a receptionist at the Royal Spa Hotel. Rudi Scherz posted the announcement himself. Miss Blacklock does not keep much money in the house. The revolver that killed Scherz was discharged at short range. The revolver was foreign made, and Scherz did not hold a permit for it. Scherz may have been helping himself to small sums from work. New character: Myrna Harris, Scherz's girlfriend. Waitress. Chapter 5: No windows or doors were forced at Little Paddocks. Mitzi says that the front door was locked all afternoon, but Blacklock says the door isn't usually locked until the house is shut up for the night. The fusebox is out by the scullery - nobody could have tampered with it without being seen by the maid. Blacklock: "Rudi Scherz? Is that his name? Somehow, I thought... oh, well, it doesn't matter." Blacklock was acquainted with Scherz from having gone to the hotel. Scherz showed up at Little Paddocks about ten days ago asking for money. Blacklock locked the side door around a quarter past six. Patrick and Julia are Blacklock's second cousins. Mitzi is a compulsive liar. Chapter 6: According to Julia, when the lights went out, Mrs. Harmon was on the sofa, Hinch was in front of the fireplace, and Patrick had left the room to get the sherry. She was by the window. Scherz moved the flashlight around the room while the lights were out. Chapter 7: New character: Dayas Hall. Gardener? Phillipa Hayes came in from work at half past five. She came in through the side door, which was not locked. She locked the door behind her. Phillipa saw the torch light up Miss Bunner's face. Colonel Easterbrook's theory: Scherz wants to make an image of a tough guy for himself, gets carried away, thinks he killed Blacklock, turns the gun on himself. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Dec 20, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 20:00
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Autumncomet posted:Is the xenophobia a running thing? I'm not going to quit over it, it's just a bit bothersome. I think the xenophobia is as much a product of Christie as it is a product of the time and place of the story's writing. It's not always obvious, but I think it's at its worst in Murder on the Orient Express, a book about a murder committed onboard a train populated entirely by ethnic charicatures.
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Dec 18, 2012 12:36
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This was a very information-dense chunk. I'm probably giving it at least one more day.
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Dec 19, 2012 20:21
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All right, we've had a pretty good chunk of time with the initial investigation - let's read up to Chapter 10 now. Everything above this post can safely be de-spoilered.
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Dec 20, 2012 20:57
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Continuing my role as Clue Archivist. Chapter 8: Scherz has a criminal history. Scherz took the 5:20 bus from Medenham to Chipping Cleghorn. Marple thinks Scherz was put up to the whole affair. Nobody should have been able to see anything but the torch. Scherz told Myrna he was going to stage a sham hold-up. He did not say who put him up to it. Chapter 9: Letty insists there's no motive for anyone to try and murder her. Mitzi says she locked the front door soon after 4 PM, but she did not lock the side door. Mitzi also says she heard Scherz and Haymes talking out in the summerhouse. Conversation: S: 'But where can I hide?' H: 'I will show you' H: 'At a quarter past six' The hall table was against the broken door until about 10 days ago. Phillipa may have suggested moving it. The broken door isn't actually broken at all, and was in fact opened recently. Chapter 10: Anybody could have slipped around behind Scherz through the 'broken' door. Patrick and Julia get Letty's money if she dies.. Letty was secretary to millionaire Mr. Goedler. When he died, he left all his money to his wife. When Mrs. Goedler dies - and she is in poor health and may die very soon - Letty will get all her money. If Letty dies before Mrs. Goedler, the money goes to Mr. Goedler's sister Sonia. Sonia married an alleged crook named Dmitri Stamfordis. Sonia and Dmitri had twins, named Pip and Emma. If Letty were to die, then Pip and Emma would ultimately get the money. Pip and Emma would be about 25 years old. Mrs. Haymes denies having spoken with Scherz, saying she was working away from the home at the time. Mrs. Haymes hesitated at the words "that morning". Patrick and Julia are about the right age to be Pip and Emma. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Dec 26, 2012 |
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Dec 22, 2012 22:18
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With the holidays over, I think we can safely advance to Chapter 13. Spoilers before this post can be removed.
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Dec 26, 2012 16:53
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Some quick research suggests that "Pip Emma" is an old-fashioned (circa 1917) English military term for PM (as in after noon).
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Dec 30, 2012 18:55
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How are people doing on chapters 11-13? Are we ready to move on yet?
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Jan 2, 2013 17:03
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Let's move on again - everybody advance up through the end of Chapter 16. Posts above this one no longer need spoilers.
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Jan 3, 2013 17:29
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I don't think anyone's got much else to say about this set, so in the interest of moving towards the conclusion, let's move ahead to Chapter 19. Everything above this post can be de-spoilered.
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Jan 10, 2013 03:00
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There is one more section before the final reveal.
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Jan 11, 2013 17:03
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Very well, let's now advance to the end of Chapter 21. Posts above this one can be unspoilered. This is the final segment before the culprit's reveal. Everybody please lock in your final theories. e: Also, why don't we start discussing options for our next book? If there are enough people who haven't already read it, I nominate And Then There Were None. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 14, 2013 |
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Jan 14, 2013 17:03
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I am certainly open to other authors! Christie's just all I know, so it's what I suggested.
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Jan 15, 2013 05:04
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Major theories posted so far: "Letty" is the culprit, but isn't actually Letty. Letty is Charlotte. Dora is Sonia. Colonel Easterbrook is Dmitri. Are we ready to move on to the grand finale? Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 8, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 17:20
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All right, let's call this the moment of truth, then. Everyone, go ahead and read to the end! All spoilers above this one can now be unspoilt. Ending spoilers:Congratulations, thread! Aside from being a bit overzealous on your predictions of who's actually who, you were basically spot on in the end. The culprit was Charlotte Blacklock masquerading as Letitia Blacklock. Now, someone else suggest some followup books - I'd like to actually participate next time. Maybe something by an author besides Christie? Whatever we decide on, I'm gonna start keeping a record of suggested future books in the OP. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 19:02
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Autumncomet posted:ProfessorProf, how madly were you laughing at our predictions over the course of the last 3 pages? Massively, for the first two pages - then I was just buttmad that you guys figured it out when I never did! This book kicked my rear end when I read it.
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Jan 19, 2013 00:32
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Zola posted:ProfessorProf, if need be, I'm sure any one of us would be happy to act as "guide" to be sure you get a turn--whoever was in charge of that mystery could just PM you to update the OP. Even that much shouldn't be necessary - I follow my own threads pretty obsessively. Whoever wants to run the next book is free to do so, and I'll update the OP whenever we move onward.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:31
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I think the only actual requirement is to know good stopping points to pace the thread, but it'd be a shame to skim over a book just enough to get that much without the fun of reading it properly. In the interest of getting things moving again, let's just pick one for now and continue the discussion of future book candidates as we go through it. If there are no objections, Maud Moonshine, would you mind walking us through Murder is Easy?
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Jan 23, 2013 00:35
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OP updated with the new book. Time to pick this up myself! Big Edit: Done through Chapter 3. So far, mainly impressed with how funny the book is. The dialogue writing in this is brilliant on every character. Clues/characters: Wychwood-under-Ashe Not a character, exactly, but the town. Notable for having a history of witchcraft accusations and the occult. Luke Fitzwilliam Our hero and detective. Retired policeman returning from abroad. He seems very gung-ho about everything. Newcomer to Wychwood-under-Ashe. Mrs. Pinkerton Old lady who Luke met on the train. She was going to Scotland Yard to tell them about the murders - she claimed to know who the murderer was. She is now deceased, probably on account of more murders. Dr. Humbleby Doctor who Pinkerton claimed would be the next victim of the murders. Died, probably murdered. Jimmy Lorrimer Luke's old friend. Got him an excuse to go to Wychwood-under-Ashe through his cousin Bridget. Bridget Conway Jimmy's cousin and Whitfield's secretary. Very mysterious young lady. Gordon Whitfield Owner of Ashe Manor. Egotistical moron who runs a series of gossip rags. Very wealthy. Bridget lists several more (Thomas, Wake, Ellsworthy, Horton), but I'm not inclined to count them until they've actually entered the story. The murders: Mrs. Pinkerton was killed in a hit-and-run car accident, either before or after talking to Scotland Yard. Motive is obvious, if before - killed to protect the killer's identity. Dr. Humbleby died of Septicaemia, apparently. Likely another murder. An unknown number ("There have been a lot of deaths this year") of other victims before Pinkerton. No details on them. "It's very easy to kill - so long as no one suspects you. And you see, the person in question is just the last person anyone would suspect!" Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 21:03
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In addition to all the Golden Age classics, I'd be interested in reading some of the more recent additions to the genre, maybe something like Simon Brett's Fethering series. For more obscure books, though, someone'd probably have to read it in advance in order to act as mediator...
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Jan 24, 2013 22:41
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Zola posted:Well, pick out the next two mysteries so Guy A. Person and I can get ready to host. It doesn't bother me to have two books going at the same time. If it's up to me, then I'll go out on a limb and nominate... The Body on the Beach, by Simon Brett The Ponson Case, by Freeman Willis Crofts As a disclaimer I haven't read either of these, so the possibility exists that they're no good, but the word on the internet seems positive.
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Jan 25, 2013 00:32
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Zola posted:ProfessorProf, if you would be so kind to update the OP so that everyone knows what books will be next, that would be great. Done. Also, finished chapter 7. On the subject of the hat paint, I see four possibilities: The murderer got the color wrong because he's a man, the murderer got the color wrong to make it seem like it was a man, Bridget is lying, Bridget is mistaken. Bridget is lying: I can't see why she would pull this. The color of the hat paint ought to be easy to confirm, and if she was lying about it, her lie would be called into question, and it would just make her look more suspicious. Ruling it out. Bridget is mistaken: I can't see why this would be the case. Ruling it out. The murderer is a man: Luke came to the conclusion, so that's a point against it, but not ruling it out. The murderer wants people to think it's a man: Almost seems too convoluted for a Christie scheme - simplify, simplify. What would this case look like? The murderer sneaks into Amy's bedroom and replaces her cough linctus with hat paint, but specifically chooses a tacky color on the off chance that somebody picks up on it and concludes that only a man would have that little fashion sense? It's too contrived for me. I'm going to sit on the other side of the fence for now: Either there's some crucial detail we don't know about that crime scene yet, or the killer is a man. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 22:53
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Finished chapter 10. Reiterating that I love this dialogue writing in this book. Luke and Thomas's cheerful discussion on the pros and cons of killing anyone unfit to live was charming to read. Speculation on new info: This is just a theory, but I've been focusing on Dr. Thomas's description of the murderer mentality - specifically the bit where he says that a true homicidal maniac believes themself to be acting in self-defense. This, and the witchcraft subplot. What if it's not the murderer who's into the dark arts, but the victims? A lot fits this theory, I think. Someone's scared for the sanctity of their community and is trying to kill all the perceived satan-worshippers before they get out of control. The killer believes that she is acting in self defense for the good of the community. We know that at least one of the victims was part of Ellsworthy's little cult. Submitting theory: The murderer is Rose Humbleby, and her next target is Bridget. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 00:11
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And so Rose gets a motive on another one of the victims! There's not much else keeping the theory together, though. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 07:23
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I'm on board with the Bridget Theory at this point. The important murders, in my eyes, are Amy, Pinkerton, and Rivers. Amy: Poisoned via hat paint. The hat paint was for the wrong color, making it appear as if a man did it. We know for a fact that Bridget was aware of this distinction, and easily could have made it to move suspicion off of her. Pinkerton: Run over. Chapter fifteen revealed that Whitfield has a car. Who could have better access to it than his secretary? Rivers: Luke ran into Bridget on the way back to discovering the body. This means that she's the only person other than Luke who we know to have been up and about at the time of the murder. As for the love confession: -Strangely sudden. -Far too early in the book. -She still hasn't told Whitfield about it. -In fact, she hurriedly put off doing so when Luke tried to bring it up. -Right before discovering a dead body immediately after encountering her in the dark. All this points to Bridget having pulled it out as an emergency measure to deflect suspicion from Luke. In all likelihood, Luke is the designated seventh victim... By the way, since we're getting near the end of this round: Zola and Guy, how are our future picks going? Are they fit for challenging? Which one does it look like we'll be doing first? Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 8, 2013 23:53
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Wisp posted:Oh, it's not actually a problem, since I rarely have much to contribute anyway. Luke is totally the best thing about this book. It's a shame he isn't one of Christie's recurring protagonists (is he?).
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Feb 10, 2013 02:12
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I'm not going to ask everyone to wait for me just so I can post "I agree with those guys."
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I think it's Waynflete at this point, but I do want to keep the conversation going until we can support the theory better. I'm not 100% on it. New information from chapters 18-20 and possible significance: According to Bones, Whitfeld's car was standing outside Boomington House at the time of Pinkerton's murder, and it didn't leave the house until 6:30. He has "the perfect alibi", but the details seem vague. Could this be a lie told by someone in the household? Whitfeld himself, because he didn't know the car was missing? The chauffeur has been established previously to be a very unreliable character, and is now dead. Waynflete "stared at Luke in astonishment" when he showed up at her house. I agree with what Entenzahm seemed to be getting at, that she thought he was dead. Rivers was never meant to be the sixth victim - Waynflete thought it was Luke coming out of the house, and struck him from behind. Waynflete broke off her engagement to Whitfeld after he killed her pet bird. This one throws a bit of a wrench in the plans. Our previous theory was that Waynflete was motivated by love, but she does seem to think Whitfeld is a very dangerous man. However, she could be lying, as the killer. Waynflete urged Luke to take Bridget and flee the country without talking to Whitfeld. If she's the killer, then getting Luke out of her hair would definitely be a bonus to her. However, she went along easily enough when Luke insisted he was going to stay, instead urging him to get Bridget away instead. What's the significance? Bridget told Whitfeld that she was going to marry Luke. This more or less kills my previous 'Bridget agreed to marry Luke to distract him before she makes him the next victim' theory. Waynflete once spoke to Whitfeld about how evil doesn't go unpunished. She planted the idea in his head to keep him from suspecting that she was the one committing the murders. Whitfeld and Waynflete's conversation in the drawing room. What a weird scene. "Put it away, Gordon, for goodness' sake" could be more about trying to keep Luke/Bridget from seeing it than about any safety concerns. Waynflete was also very nervous in this scene - why? She has no reason to worry about being a victim. She's nervous that she's going to be found out. I think this conversation bears some closer examination, though. A lot's going on here, and it could be important. Waynflete insisted on taking Bridget home. If she's killing as Whitfeld's guardian angel, then Bridget is the clear next target. Questions: When did Waynflete break off her engagement to Whitfeld? Was it a long time ago? Didn't Pinkerton somehow imply that she was a social equal to the killer in her speech at the start? That's more points for Waynflete. Is there any murder that absolutely couldn't have been performed by Waynflete? Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 22:17
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Zola posted:The thing with Miss Waynflete is that if Whitfield killed her bird and it frightened her enough to break off the engagement, it's more reasonable that she would resent him--it doesn't make sense that she would be murdering people on his behalf out of love. I don't even know if she drives, but it's perfectly possible that Bridget could have taken the other car to London and just used a spare set of keys to take the Rolls. This actually ties into the alternate theory presented by Guy - she's not doing it because she loves Whitfeld, but because she wants to frame him. I'm going to go ahead and lock in, for better or for worse: The killer is Mrs. Waynflete. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Feb 13, 2013 06:22
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Three posters! Three different predictions! The suspense is already killing me!
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Feb 13, 2013 06:34
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I WIN edit: Looks like Guy was right with his theory that Waynflete was trying to frame Whitfeld for murder. Interesting, too, that none of us considered the possibility that Pinkerton was shoved in front of a car, rather than the driver being the killer. A bit bummed that my theory that Waynflete mistook Rivers for Luke was off, but the other explanation provided makes plenty of sense. All things considered, I agree with Entenzahn that this book wasn't quite as fair as some of Christie's other works. I'm not convinced it was possible to logically deduce beyond any doubt that it wasn't Bridget or Rose. Props to Bridget for remembering her villain cliches and getting Waynflete monologuing. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Feb 17, 2013 |
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Feb 17, 2013 18:09
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Incidentally, if nobody else steps forward with new ideas between now and the end of Zola and Guy's rounds, I'm nominating The Moving Finger, another Christie book, for a future challenge.
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Feb 18, 2013 00:19
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I've already read The Moving Finger (it's fantastic), but if you want to run it then by all means.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:24
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I'm still on chapter 1, being sick is really killing my ability to brain the text. Might be best to just move on without me and I'll catch up. 
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Feb 21, 2013 19:10
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