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Guy A. Person posted:It also gets some really basic facts wrong in order to paint Superman as indifferent and ineffectual: The moment could have been played as Jenny, and the other citizens of the city, misunderstanding or being otherwise confused about Superman's appearance -- "What did he just do? Where has he been all this time? Has he been helping or hurting us?" -- which would have actually made sense given the continuity of events we just experienced. Instead? It tried to play the scene off as a cathartic moment, with the (very few) people Superman saved finally understanding his heroism. This is the exact sort of tone-deafness that the article is referring to. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 01:15
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| # ? May 5, 2024 13:41 |
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She witnessed a god descend from the Heavens. It's not subtle.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:18
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She just witnessed tons of other similar "gods" threatening to murder her and her entire race! Meanwhile she sees this one "god" -- who, incidentally, she knows is the only reason the other gods are here to kill everyone in the first place -- flying down after thousands of her peers are murdered, and immediately somehow understands that he did something -- what, exactly? Who knows! -- to save the rest of them from being smashed to death? You're right that it's not subtle, it's just completely nonsensical.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:26
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BrianWilly posted:Jenny isn't watching the Zac Snyder film Man of Steel in the movie theater, Jenny is a character in the film. There is no way that Jenny, or literally any other person in Metropolis, would know a single thing about anything Superman did in the Indian Ocean, much less what fuckall it would have to do with saving them. For the film character Jenny -- who has never met Superman in her life and doesn't interact with him in any way whatsoever throughout the entire course of the film -- to then say "He saved us!" is, in fact, absolutely delusional. She saw him tear through the alien ship that was piloted by one of the malevolent gods.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:53
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She would have had to have Kryptonian vision herself to have seen that from this vantage point, but sure why not.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:01
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BrianWilly posted:Jenny isn't watching the Zac Snyder film Man of Steel in the movie theater, Jenny is a character in the film. There is no way that Jenny, or literally any other person in Metropolis, would know a single thing about anything Superman did in the Indian Ocean, much less what fuckall it would have to do with saving them. For the film character Jenny -- who has never met Superman in her life and doesn't interact with him in any way whatsoever throughout the entire course of the film -- to then say "He saved us!" is, in fact, absolutely delusional. You're right. This movie's retarded.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:01
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BrianWilly posted:Jenny isn't watching the Zac Snyder film Man of Steel in the movie theater, Jenny is a character in the film. There is no way that Jenny, or literally any other person in Metropolis, would know a single thing about anything Superman did in the Indian Ocean, much less what fuckall it would have to do with saving them. For the film character Jenny -- who has never met Superman in her life and doesn't interact with him in any way whatsoever throughout the entire course of the film -- to then say "He saved us!" is, in fact, absolutely delusional. She knows that this guy exists, that some evil aliens came looking for him, that he turned himself in, that the aliens attacked the city anyway, that all of a sudden the alien attack stopped and their ship spontaneously disappeared from the sky and now the guy is standing there making out with her friend. It's not a huge leap to make using basic inference. EDIT: Also, just for reference, I was responding directly to the part of the quote where the author proposed that Superman had nothing to do with saving her. I wasn't arguing about her personal knowledge, but the objective fact of him saving her. Guy A. Person fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 02:29
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BrianWilly posted:She just witnessed tons of other similar "gods" threatening to murder her and her entire race! Meanwhile she sees this one "god" -- who, incidentally, she knows is the only reason the other gods are here to kill everyone in the first place -- flying down after thousands of her peers are murdered, and immediately somehow understands that he did something -- what, exactly? Who knows! -- to save the rest of them from being smashed to death? You're right that it's not subtle, it's just completely nonsensical. Look out, we got an atheist here! Real telling of criticism of this film are two falsehoods repeated as truth. 1. Thousands die. People got the gently caress out of town when the machine started, we see them running, and the machine advancing slowly. Later during the fight with Zod we see how empty the streets and buildings are. Even if we were to accept that thousands of people died horribly, he literally saved billions from the same fate. 2. Metropolis was destroyed. I mean yeah, ground zero is ashes, but literally the next scene is Supes and Zod flying through block after block of skyscrapers.  Superman saves the day, as Superman is wont to do. Saying otherwise is whiny rear end nerd bullshit that has nothing to do with this film presents.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:43
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Guy A. Person posted:She knows that this guy exists, that some evil aliens came looking for him, that he turned himself in, that the aliens attacked the city anyway, that all of a sudden the alien attack stopped and their ship spontaneously disappeared from the sky and now the guy is standing there making out with her friend. It's not a huge leap to make using basic inference.  Yes, this is a huge leap. This is a virtual word-for-word description of a huge leap. You are literally saying that she believes Superman saved them when she does not see, hear, or experience anything that would logically lead her to understand that fact. Let us just reiterate that no one in Metropolis knows anything at all about Superman. They don't know that he's inclined to help people, they don't know what he's been doing these past years or even these past hours, they don't know he's cooperating with the military...heck, do they even know that he turned himself in in the first place?? The fact that he is physically present in the aftermath of the attack is not an indication that he did anything against it. For all Jenny knows, he was there the whole time, since she wasn't even aware that he was ever anywhere else!Moreover, there are tons of reason why the attack could have stopped that Jenny would have assumed before connecting Superman to any of it. Why, for instance, would she assume that he specifically did anything to stop the Kryptonians instead of the military plane that just rammed itself into their base and sucked them all into a vortex? Even assuming she makes the leap that Superman fought these aliens at all, why would she elevate him specifically above the servicemen she saw actively fighting the aliens?
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Jul 2, 2014 03:01
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wyoming posted:Superman saves the day, as Superman is wont to do. Saying otherwise is whiny rear end nerd bullshit that has nothing to do with this film presents. Why are you so agitated dude. This isn't a battle between the forces of light and darkness, as depicted in the film Men of Steel. What does all this invective lead to, aside from an unpleasant thread to read and post in? What's this war in the heart of nature?
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Jul 2, 2014 03:19
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Superman's able to leap over skyscrapers in a single bound. This film is all about huge leaps.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:19
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DNS posted:Why are you so agitated dude. This isn't a battle between the forces of light and darkness, as depicted in the film Men of Steel. What does all this invective lead to, aside from an unpleasant thread to read and post in? What's this war in the heart of nature? Deep down everybody knows that the actual answer to why Superman punches so much poo poo in this movie is because all the dinguses who didn't like Superman Returns said "durr, Superman should punch a lot of poo poo in the next movie!" and Hollywood listened.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:22
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Deep down everybody knows that the actual answer to why Superman punches so much poo poo in this movie is because all the dinguses who didn't like Superman Returns said "durr, Superman should punch a lot of poo poo in the next movie!" and Hollywood listened. This is 10000000% the truth, and why I find it especially funny that this argument keeps happening, because I know that there are people out there who clamorred for it, got it, and realized what exactly it entailed.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:26
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DNS posted:Why are you so agitated dude. This isn't a battle between the forces of light and darkness, as depicted in the film Men of Steel. What does all this invective lead to, aside from an unpleasant thread to read and post in? What's this war in the heart of nature? I'm actually discussing the movie, unlike people that make up poo poo that never happens in the movie so they can claim "Not my Superman!" I don't really care if people like or hate the movie, if they actually watched it though, it would be nice for discussion. Yoshifan823 posted:This is 10000000% the truth, and why I find it especially funny that this argument keeps happening, because I know that there are people out there who clamorred for it, got it, and realized what exactly it entailed. And it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:42
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Since you're so intent on digging this grave...quote:'Man of Steel' director Zack Snyder has spoken out about the fight between Superman and General Zod… and it looks as though the Metropolis death toll soared into thousands.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:50
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No one who is not an idiot is arguing that no one died in the fight. Snyder is probably right, people probably died. But I mean, come on.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:04
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Deep down everybody knows that the actual answer to why Superman punches so much poo poo in this movie is because all the dinguses who didn't like Superman Returns said "durr, Superman should punch a lot of poo poo in the next movie!" and Hollywood listened. Yeah. Some people think superhero = super action hero. There's this appetite for seeing massive powers being deployed in the most gigantic way. They don't think "Oh yeah, Superman uses his massive powers to save or protect people!" they want him to his something as hard as he can, with the full might of modern special effects.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:09
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Yoshifan823 posted:No one who is not an idiot is arguing that no one died in the fight. Snyder is probably right, people probably died. But I mean, come on. Some guy with a personality disorder declared that BrianWilly was presenting "falsehoods repeated as truth" when he said thousands died, just 8 posts above you. This is a direct response to that. What are you "come on"ing? Do you think he's being ridiculous, to respond to the guy who literally called him a liar who didn't even watch the movie?
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Jul 2, 2014 04:11
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^yeah thatYoshifan823 posted:No one who is not an idiot is arguing that no one died in the fight. Snyder is probably right, people probably died. But I mean, come on. So I mean yeah, come on.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:12
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For some reason "thousands of people dying" wasn't an issue in Transformers 3 when literally the same thing happened.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:12
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Well, for one thing I'm not certain I could conjure a gently caress to give about Transformers 3 if I was paid to, and for another thing even associating MoS with it would probably make this film look worse, not better 
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Jul 2, 2014 05:27
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BrianWilly posted:Jenny isn't watching the Zac Snyder film Man of Steel in the movie theater, Jenny is a character in the film. There is no way that Jenny, or literally any other person in Metropolis, would know a single thing about anything Superman did in the Indian Ocean, much less what fuckall it would have to do with saving them. For the film character Jenny -- who has never met Superman in her life and doesn't interact with him in any way whatsoever throughout the entire course of the film -- to then say "He saved us!" is, in fact, absolutely delusional. And yet, she knows. Maybe she was with someone who knows about Superman, who could tell her. But that's unimportant. She knows he saved them, and she is correct.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:31
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BrianWilly posted:Let us just reiterate that no one in Metropolis knows anything at all about Superman. They don't know that he's inclined to help people, they don't know what he's been doing these past years or even these past hours, they don't know he's cooperating with the military...heck, do they even know that he turned himself in in the first place?? They literally do know all of this stuff about Superman because Lois has been obsessively pursuing a story about an alien who has been going around saving people (which everyone in the office knows and teases her about), and as soon as Zod shows up and issues his ultimatum there is a scene where Perry instantly figures out that this is the same guy. Then the military shows up to take her into custody and the next time her friends see her she is making out with this guy who just floated down from the sky. And once again, the original quote was about how Superman didn't save them at all, not about this girl's logic. Moving the goal posts that drastically to claim that the "tone-deafness" of the scene was due to that comment is a bigger leap than anything else in this film. Also what SMG just said.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:41
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DNS posted:Some guy with a personality disorder declared that BrianWilly was presenting "falsehoods repeated as truth" when he said thousands died, just 8 posts above you. This is a direct response to that. What are you "come on"ing? Do you think he's being ridiculous, to respond to the guy who literally called him a liar who didn't even watch the movie? Oh no, noted shitposter DNS has psychological opinions about me. Get the gently caress over yourself. My point still stands. wyoming posted:Even if we were to accept that thousands of people died horribly, he literally saved billions from the same fate. We don't see the thousands die, which is important, because this is a film. Synder pulls a number out of his when he's asked a random question, and that changes the movie, how? The point isn't the blocks of Metroplis that get leveled, it's Superman going to India and saving the world. Literally, the world.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:47
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I would love to have the powers of Superman.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:48
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wyoming posted:We don't see the thousands die, which is important, because this is a film. Synder pulls a number out of his when he's asked a random question, and that changes the movie, how? The point isn't the blocks of Metroplis that get leveled, it's Superman going to India and saving the world. Literally, the world. If it's not the point then why did you go to pains to correct him while calling him a liar, clearly relishing it all the while? What was your goal in fussing over Not The Point while also calling him names and lying about what he said? Was it to make the thread better? Or was it to make yourself feel good?
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Jul 2, 2014 05:54
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computer parts posted:For some reason "thousands of people dying" wasn't an issue in Transformers 3 when literally the same thing happened. Meh, probably hundreds of thousands in Chicago died, so that only makes them an unimportant statistic.
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Jul 2, 2014 06:01
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DNS posted:If it's not the point then why did you go to pains to correct him while calling him a liar, clearly relishing it all the while? What was your goal in fussing over Not The Point while also calling him names and lying about what he said? Was it to make the thread better? Or was it to make yourself feel good? Because it's a point about movie literacy. I wasn't calling anyone a liar, I was saying they didn't pay attention. We don't see thousands die, the entire city is never destroyed. These are both complaints leveled that really don't have anything to do with the film Man of Steel, and are more complaints about some personal ideal of Superman. I'm not trying to post with any animosity here, it's just this is the thread where this was argued to not have anything to say about decadence:  And that this took nothing from the Matrix:  The film is a pretty simple story of Clark becoming Superman, he saves the world. People are getting caught up with a number the director makes up because some asks him to, or wondering how Jenny could know Superman was a hero. We learn the lesson that sometimes people can't be saved from Clark's father and Jenny knows because he'd become Superman by that point. No more playing around with the name by the end of the film.
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Jul 2, 2014 06:20
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Super angry nerds in the Super Man thread
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Jul 2, 2014 06:55
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it's not funny man, Nerdrage is a serious and destructive thing, if not channeled into scene by scene movie review/thesis Whole city blocks could crumble, many thousands of people could be killed.
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Jul 2, 2014 07:33
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Rocksicles posted:it's not funny man, Nerdrage is a serious and destructive thing, if not channeled into scene by scene movie review/thesis The exact number who die in the nerdsplosion could also become another potential focus point for new nerdrage and the cycle would begin anew.
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Jul 2, 2014 07:42
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BrianWilly posted:Moreover, there are tons of reason why the attack could have stopped that Jenny would have assumed before connecting Superman to any of it. Why, for instance, would she assume that he specifically did anything to stop the Kryptonians instead of the military plane that just rammed itself into their base and sucked them all into a vortex? Even assuming she makes the leap that Superman fought these aliens at all, why would she elevate him specifically above the servicemen she saw actively fighting the aliens? So Jenny's supposedly not able to connect the dots between "attack stops" and "Superman is floating there" but it's more feasible for you that she saw the military plane crash into the alien space ship while she was buried under rubble? 
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Jul 2, 2014 09:03
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Bob Quixote posted:The exact number who die in the nerdsplosion could also become another potential focus point for new nerdrage and the cycle would begin anew. Someone buy Henry Cavill an SA account
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Jul 2, 2014 09:07
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Grendels Dad posted:So Jenny's supposedly not able to connect the dots between "attack stops" and "Superman is floating there" but it's more feasible for you that she saw the military plane crash into the alien space ship while she was buried under rubble? For pete's sake, Jenny might not even be aware that Superman even has any particularly useful superpowers other than flight at this point, since she hasn't actually seen him or any of the other Kryptonians in direct action! So, yes, it is more feasible for me that Jenny would assume the military stopped the Kryptonians since it is a thing she might possibly be aware of, than that she would assume Superman stopped the Kryptonians since it is a thing she couldn't possibly be aware of. Actually, just to be clear, the most feasible thing in this situation would be that Jenny simply has no idea what the heck just happened and couldn't venture any guesses as to who exactly saved them, instead of just wildly attributing their salvation to the literal first person she sees after crawling out of the ground. wyoming posted:People are getting caught up with a number the director makes up because some asks him to BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 11:29
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DNS posted:Some guy with a personality disorder declared that BrianWilly was presenting "falsehoods repeated as truth" when he said thousands died, just 8 posts above you. This is a direct response to that. What are you "come on"ing? Do you think he's being ridiculous, to respond to the guy who literally called him a liar who didn't even watch the movie? Note I said "No one who isn't an idiot." Also, holy gently caress you are placing too much emphasis on a "plot hole" that would be filler in a loving Buzzfeed article. You are right that in the real world, Jenny probably wouldn't know that Superman was the one out saving the world and that kept her from dying, but guess what, It's a movie! Movies do not have to be 100% accurate to real life, and if this is the thing that bothers you (which it probably is just a symptom as opposed to a root), then you are missing the point in a spectacular way.
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Jul 2, 2014 11:46
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I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something?
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Jul 2, 2014 11:48
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JediTalentAgent posted:Meh, probably hundreds of thousands in Chicago died, so that only makes them an unimportant statistic. They specifically say 1300 in TF4, which just seems absolutely loving ridiculous.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:07
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Jenny works at the Planet, it'd be dumb as hell if she didn't know everything there was to be known about Superman's dealings with the military and other Kryptonians re: his surrender to the US and his fight in Smallville. If the attack stops and you look up and around and see no signs of the military whatever but Superman floating down to the ground it's pretty easy to reach the obvious conclusion, especially if you know from reports of previous encounters that human jets were near worthless against even single alien footsoldiers and only Superman was able to turn the attack on Kansas around. I guess it's important to BrianWilly that Jenny be helplessly stupid and unable to make basic inferences, though.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:10
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Ferrinus posted:Jenny works at the Planet, it'd be dumb as hell if she didn't know everything there was to be known about Superman's dealings with the military and other Kryptonians re: his surrender to the US and his fight in Smallville. You are right that there were probably reports about the fight in Smallville, though those reports would be hazy at best considering that they're coming from terrified eyewitness sources who have no idea what's happening and passed onto bewildered reporters thousands of miles away who also have no idea what's happening. Seriously, read any news article about any kind of major conflict around the world nowadays and try to come away with any clear sequence of events about who did what in which way and how specifically effective it may or may not have been. Again, the characters of this universe are not watching the movie with us in HD IMAX quality, they are relying completely on hearsay and second-hand information. I suppose we can assume that anyone hearing reports of the incident in Smallville could come to realize that Superman is fighting against the other aliens at the very least, so there's that. Of course, this would be disregarding that witnesses probably could have seen Superman putting them all in danger by throwing Zod straight into the middle of town in the first place. Hey by the way, nice job on the whole "helplessly stupid" strawman. It does strengthen your argument to make it sound like I've said ludicrous things that I haven't.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:12
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| # ? May 5, 2024 13:41 |
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Actually, I didn't make up that Jenny works at the news organization most closely tied to Superman or that you have founded your claims on the premise that she is an idiot. You even said she'd be as likely to believe that Lois saved everyone as Superman! It boggles the mind. As always, complaints about supposed plot holes reveal themselves to be frustrations at limited problem solving abilities. How could she have known that Superman A) was powerful enough to fight the other aliens and B) actually was fighting the other aliens? Well, I'M either too lazy or too unimaginative to figure out even a single way she could have come to that understanding, so it must actually be impossible and so I have beaten the movie at last.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:24
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