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Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
:siren: The Rules :siren:

The OP has a streamlined version of the rules. Herein lie the minutiae.

Buyin: $20
Website: ESPN
Tiers: 2
# of teams per tier: 12
# of teams promoted each year: 3 winners of a 6 team playoff
# of teams relegated each year: 3 losers of a 4 team playoff
Roster: QB 2 RB 2 WR TE FLEX K 1 DL 2 LB 2 DB DFLEX 7 BN
Offensive scoring: 0.5 PPR, otherwise ESPN Standard

IDP Scoring

quote:

Tackle Solo: .85
Tackle Assist: .43
Sack: 2.5
Interception: 3.5
Fumble Force: 3
Fumble Recovery: 3
Defensive Touchdown: 6
Safety: 4
Pass Defended: 1
Block Kick : 3
Tackles for Loss: .65

Payout
Each tier has a separate, but equal, payout

quote:

1st place: $115
2nd place: $40
3rd place: $20
Highest points total each week of regular season: $5 (x13)

Keeper System

quote:

A) Every keeper has a one round penalty.
B) Penalties that can't be enforced will transfer to the next highest keeper.
C) If a round is not available, a greater round will be used. If a greater round is not available, the first available lower round will be used and a penalty will be assessed for each round below the keeper's value.
D) All penalties must be enforced.
E) The following season, keepers are valued with their initial penalty in mind (not including transferred penalties).
F) Once a player hits free agency in any form, that player is no longer eligible to be kept the following season.

Example:
code:
2012 Draft:
1.) Drew Brees
2.) DeMarco Murray
4.) Percy Harvin
16.) Alfred Morris

2013:
1.) Brees (1st)
2.) DeMarco (2nd)
3.) Harvin (4th)
  -1 for keeping Harvin
13.) Morris (16th)
  -1 for keeping Morris
  -1 for keeping Brees
  -1 for keeping DeMarco

2014:
1.) Brees (1st)
2.) DeMarco (1st)
3.) Harvin (3rd)
10.) Morris (15th)
  -1 for keeping Morris
  -1 for keeping Brees
  -1 for keeping DeMarco
  -1 for using a second round pick for a first round keeper (DeMarco)
  -1 for keeping Harvin

2015:
1.) Brees (1st)
2.) DeMarco (1st)
3.) Harvin (2nd)
8.) Morris (14th)
  -1 for keeping Morris
  -1 for keeping Brees
  -1 for keeping DeMarco
  -1 for using a second round pick for a first round keeper (DeMarco)
  -1 for keeping Harvin
  -1 for using a third round pick for a second round keeper (Harvin)
Keeper system endorsement:

HiroProtagonist posted:

I like this system. It's effective and not too obtuse.

New people to FF might think it's crazy complicated, but putting helpful explanations like this one

...in the OP would explain it pretty well I think.

Supplemental Draft
Every year at least three teams in Tier A will be disbanded. The players comprising their rosters will be put into one large player pool. Teams from Tier B will be promoted to take their place, and they will be able to select keepers from the player pool in a supplemental draft.

Any players selected in the supplemental draft will retain the same value they would have if they were kept by their previous owner. For example, if a relegated team drafted Andrew Luck in the 14th round, drafting Andrew Luck in the supplemental draft would let the new owner keep him in the 13th round (barring any other penalties).

Owners will have an unlimited number of picks in the supplemental draft, but their keepers must abide by the same keepers rules as the rest of the league. Once every owner opts out of the draft, and the commissioner determines that their keepers adhere to the league's keeper rules, the supplemental draft is over.

The supplemental draft will be in order of their finish in Tier B. The draft will snake.

Draft Order
The first year the draft order will be randomized. After that, the two tiers will follow the following draft order:

Tier A
1: 1st place Tier B
2: 2nd place Tier B
3: 3rd place Tier B
4: 9th place Tier A
5: 8th place Tier A
etc, etc

Tier B
1: 10th place Tier A
2: 11th place Tier A
3: 12th place Tier A
4: 12th place Tier B
5: 11th place Tier B
etc, etc

The draft will snake. Every attempt will be made to accommodate a live draft.

Trades
Trades will have a 48 hour review window. During this window, either of the two teams involved in the trade can opt out at anytime by posting here before the 48 hours are up.

This way, if you think a trade is stupid, unfair, etc, come here and post about it. Tell the people involved why you think it's an unbalanced trade. Try to convince the person being screwed to opt out. Or, better yet, feel free to offer them a better deal.

I'll obviously reserve the right to veto extreme attempts at collusion / cheating. We've got a good group of people here, so I doubt it'll ever come to that.

Trade Draft Picks At Your Own Risk
Future draft picks can be traded in Tier A. However, keep in mind that the draft picks of a relegated team are valueless.

Furthermore, if you trade your own future draft pick to a team, your rights to that draft pick are forfeited (even if that team is then later relegated).

Ties
During the regular season, matchups can result in a tie. It's not very likely because we're using fractional points, but I've seen it happen before.

Overall record determines playoff seeding. Ties will be broken in the following order:
- Points For (season)
- Points Against (season)
- Coin flip

During the playoffs, ties will be broken in the following order:
- Points For (season)
- Points Against (season)
- Coin flip

Relegation Cannot Be Avoided
If someone in Tier A decides not to continue on next season for whatever reason, their roster will join the player pool for the supplemental draft and an additional team from Tier B will be promoted to take their place.

Zypher fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Dec 17, 2013

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Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause
I think that making the lower tier a re-draft would probably be better and a lot easier to manage. I also think that the keepers should either be round-dependent or at the end of the draft, otherwise everyone will probably just keep their first rounder every year or drop everyone and try to get their pick from the player pool of the relegated teams. Unless you end up with two of the top tier guys (Foster/Peterson/Brees/Johnson etc.) there's really no incentive to burn a 2nd round pick on a keeper player who you can probably just re-draft in a later round. And then you'll just get 7 teams keeping the same guys every season if they don't get relegated and then just a regular re-draft player pool

dalstrs
Mar 11, 2004

At least this way my kill will have some use
Dinosaur Gum

Zypher posted:

Also, it should be noted that teams changing tiers should have a disadvantage. But the tricky thing is to keep it at just a slight disadvantage.

They shouldn't have a disadvantage if they are moving up though. I still like the idea of the different fee tiers for the different leagues. Gives more incentive and an easy way to split up the tiers the first season. IE anyone who only wants to pay $10 is in tier 2 and those who want $20 are in tier one. Then the teams that win tier 2 can use part of their winnings to pay for the increased tier one fees. I just threw those numbers out there for examples.

Also the keepers costing 1st and 2nds, etc. seems a bit steep especially with a non-snaking draft.

dewey7788
Oct 10, 2004

Don't Toews me bro!
I'm in if there's still room.

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
You're in! We're at nineteen right now. Well, twenty-two if you include 89, Darko, and Tae. Darko and Tae have posted in the thread but haven't explicitly said that they're in.

Obama Yo Mama posted:

I think that making the lower tier a re-draft would probably be better and a lot easier to manage. I also think that the keepers should either be round-dependent or at the end of the draft, otherwise everyone will probably just keep their first rounder every year or drop everyone and try to get their pick from the player pool of the relegated teams. Unless you end up with two of the top tier guys (Foster/Peterson/Brees/Johnson etc.) there's really no incentive to burn a 2nd round pick on a keeper player who you can probably just re-draft in a later round. And then you'll just get 7 teams keeping the same guys every season if they don't get relegated and then just a regular re-draft player pool

I'm now leaning towards the lowest tier being redraft as well.

Fair point regarding keepers. I personally don't think top of the draft is that stifling to players keeping players, but I might be wrong. Of the two, I would prefer bottom of the draft over round-dependent because I hate the disparity between the choice of, say, keeping Doug Martin in the 3rd vs Alfred Morris in the 16th.

dalstrs posted:

They shouldn't have a disadvantage if they are moving up though. I still like the idea of the different fee tiers for the different leagues. Gives more incentive and an easy way to split up the tiers the first season. IE anyone who only wants to pay $10 is in tier 2 and those who want $20 are in tier one. Then the teams that win tier 2 can use part of their winnings to pay for the increased tier one fees. I just threw those numbers out there for examples.

Also the keepers costing 1st and 2nds, etc. seems a bit steep especially with a non-snaking draft.

The fee tier is a good idea, but it would suck if someone plays because they want to join the $10 league and then they drop out next year when they get promoted and don't want to pay $20.

Is bottom of the draft keepers more fair with a non-snaking draft?

dalstrs
Mar 11, 2004

At least this way my kill will have some use
Dinosaur Gum

Zypher posted:



The fee tier is a good idea, but it would suck if someone plays because they want to join the $10 league and then they drop out next year when they get promoted and don't want to pay $20.

Is bottom of the draft keepers more fair with a non-snaking draft?

If they are getting promoted then they will have won something, if we make it so 3rd place pays out at least enough to cover the higher fee I don't think we would lose anymore than we normally would due to life. No big deal for me either way.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)
Holy crap this is going to be hardcore and I cannot loving wait :3:

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause
Zypher, here are the Scoring Settings/Rules for the keeper league I run with my friends (and will probably be starting a variant of in TAQ next season). I know a few of the rules aren't applicable here, but feel free to pick out any ones, if any, you like and want to use.

quote:

Roster Positions: QB, WR, WR, WR, RB, RB, TE, W/T, W/R/T, K, D, DB, DB, DB, DL, LB, LB, LB, IR, IR, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN

Offense
Completions: .1
Incomplete Passes: -.125
Passing Yards: 50 yards per point; 3.5 points at 325 yards; 8.5 points at 400 yards; 8.5 points at 475 yards
Passing Touchdowns: 4
Interceptions: -3
Rushing Attempts: -0.07
Rushing Yards: 15 yards per point; 3.33 points at 100 yards; 6.67 points at 150 yards; 6.67 points at 200 yards
Rushing Touchdowns: 6
Receptions: .40
Reception Yards: 20 yards per point; 3 points at 100 yards; 4.5 points at 150 yards; 2.5 points at 200 yards
Reception Touchdowns: 6
Return Yards: 40 yards per point; 1.25 points at 150 yards; 3.75 points at 200 yards; 8.75 points at 250 yards
Return Touchdowns: 6
2-Point Conversions: 2
Fumbles: -1
Fumbles Lost: -1
Offensive Fumble Return TD: 6
Pick Sixes Thrown: -3
40+ Yard Completions: 2.5
40+ Yard Rushing Attempts: 3
40+ Yard Receptions: 2.5

Kickers
Field Goals 0-19 Yards: 3
Field Goals 20-29 Yards: 3
Field Goals 30-39 Yards: 3
Field Goals 40-49 Yards: 4
Field Goals 50+ Yards: 5
Field Goals Missed 0-19 Yards: -3
Field Goals Missed 20-29 Yards: -3
Point After Attempt Made: 1
Point After Attempt Missed: -5

Defensive Players
Tackle Solo: .85
Tackle Assist: .425
Sack: 2.5
Interception: 3.5
Fumble Force: 3
Fumble Recovery: 3
Defensive Touchdown: 6
Safety: 4
Pass Defended: 1
Block Kick: 3
Tackles for Loss: .65
Turnover Return Yards: 20 yards per point

quote:
GENERAL RULES:

A. There are 5 keeper slots every year: 2 offensive players, 2 defensive players, and 1 player of choice either offense or defense.

B. The teams in the League Championship will each receive an extra choice keeper.

C. If a player is claimed as kept, there will be a 1 round added to his draft position in the next year's draft

D. In order to keep a player who was drafted in the 1st round, the keeping team must add TWO rounds to the two lowest valued keepers on the roster. For two 1st round players, two rounds must be added to every other keeper on the roster (not including Project Keepers). For three 1st round players, THREE rounds must be added to the other keepers AND the team in question will be ineligible to select a Project Keeper that season.

E. In order for a Free Agent player to be claimed as kept, he must be on the team's roster prior to the start of the Week 11 Monday Night game and for the duration of the playoffs. Players acquired via trade can be kept regardless of when they were acquired, providing they are on the team's final roster.

F. If a Free Agent pick is being kept, a 16th round pick must be given up (and a pick from subsequent rounds for each additional FA player kept).

G. Keeper players can NOT be cut. Otherwise, there is no Can't Cut list.

H. If a keeper player goes on IR or is traded, he may be cut but the right to claim him for the next season will be forfeited (unless the criteria is met from Rule E).

I. If a player is drafted in the first 5 rounds, then subsequently cut and acquired by a new team and the new team wishes to keep said player, he will retain his original draft slot instead of being given a Free Agent draft slot.

J. Any trade where only one side is sending a keeper player is subject to veto if it is deemed that the keeper player in question is being traded simply to be removed from the roster. Any manager that has a trade vetoed has the right to an appeal.



PROJECT KEEPER RULES:

A. A Project Keeper is a player, either offense or defense, that is picked in the last 5 rounds. Project Keepers are not required.

B. In his first kept season (the season following his original draft selection) a project keeper will NOT count against the team's original 5 keepers, or 6 keepers for Championship Game participants.

C. If a Project Keeper is chosen, he will retain his original round value in the next years draft.

D. If a Project Keeper is kept again in the following draft, he will be defaulted to the round following the team's final kept player (ie. If kept players cause a team to lose picks in rounds 2, 4, 6, 10, and 15, the project keeper will be defaulted to round 16)

E. If a Project Keeper is kept for a 2 or more seasons, he will then count against the team's original 5 keepers, or 6 for Championship Game participants.

F. If a Project Keeper for a 3rd season, his round value will be based upon his round value from the previous season, not the round following the team's final keeper.

G. If an original keeper is supposed to be in the same round as a Project Keeper (ie. PK drafted in round 22, keeper drafted in round 23 and supposed to move up to round 22), the original keeper will be slotted into the round AHEAD of the Project Keeper (in the stated scenario, the player from round 23 will be selected in round 21)
H. Project Keepers CAN be cut if desired.



DRAFT ORDER RULES:

A. Team owners will choose their own draft slot based on the previous season's final standings.

B.The order of draft slot selection will operate as follows: There will be a Consolation Lottery Bracket* playoff for choices 1-6 and choices 7-12 will be decided based on playoff performance. The choice order will be:

1. Lottery Bracket Champion
2. Lottery Bracket Runner Up
3. Lottery Bracket 3rd place game winner
4. Lottery Bracket 3rd place game loser
5. Lottery Bracket 5th place game winner
6. Lottery Bracket 5th place game loser
7. Playoff 3rd place game winner
8. Playoff 5th place game winner
9. Playoff 5th place game loser
10. Playoff 3rd place game loser
11. League runner-up
12. League Champion

*CLB will not be decided by the default Yahoo Consolation Bracket. It will be seeded in reverse, with 11th and 12th place teams receiving the first round bye, 7v10 and 8v9 in first round, rounds re-seed.


SCHEDULE RULES:

A. Teams will be placed into two divisions according to the Final Standings, as set by record:

Division A: 1, 6, 7, 12
Division B: 2, 5, 8, 11
Division C: 3, 4, 9, 10


B. Each team will play a 13 game schedule (6 games within division, 7 games outside division) where they will play every team once during Weeks 1-11. Weeks 12 and 13 will be:

Week 12: 1v12, 2v11, 3v10, 4v9, 5v8, 6v7
Week 13: 1v7, 2v8, 3v9, 4v10, 5v11, 6v12

C. 6 teams make the playoffs, three division winners will receive the top seeds. Teams will re-seed after each round

zeroordie
Aug 27, 2004

Obama Yo Mama posted:

C. If a player is claimed as kept, there will be a 1 round added to his draft position in the next year's draft

I think this make a lot more sense than just a blanket first round pick cost.

That being said, I'm new to keeper leagues so I don't really know what I'm talking about.

zeroordie fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Dec 15, 2012

Boywunda
Jun 25, 2003

LmaoTheKid posted:

Holy crap this is going to be hardcore and I cannot loving wait :3:

I'm with ya...I'm excited for it. I did a "goon" money league this year, that I'll probably drop for this one next year. I like the specific rules that will develop in this one. Plus Zypher and OYM really sound like they know what they are talking about, so when it's all hashed out, I think it will be solid!

Boomer The Cannon
Oct 27, 2011

Gotta see it live!


I want in, this sounds badass.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

zeroordie posted:

I think this make a lot more sense than just a blanket first round pick cost.

That being said, I'm new to keeper leagues so I don't really know what I'm talking about.

I definitely see the appeal with both, and I get where Zypher is coming from for the purposes of this league as it'll make it even more unbalanced for promoted teams.

I do think though that for a non-snaking draft, it makes more sense for the keepers, however many we allow per team, to be at the end of the draft. I already talked about how having them at the top won't give most teams incentive to keep more than one or two players, but I also think that giving everyone equal access to the top of the remaining player pool will promote more parity, especially when the promoted teams are getting the first picks of every round, therefore getting the better talent.


e: I also would really like to see some sort of scheduling system like the one I have set up for that keeper league where your previous years performance will help determine your schedule/division so that it would add even another wrinkle making where you finish important even if you don't get promoted/relegated.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Dec 15, 2012

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause
What are we capping this at? 26 people (14 team Tier A, 12 team Tier B)?


Tier A: Easy, 13 weeks, play each team once, 8 team playoff, bottom 4 in a relegation bracket

Tier B: 3 Divisions of 4 set as such:

Div. A: Relegation #1, #6, #7, #12
Div. B: Relegation #2, #5, #8, #11
Div. C: Relegation #3, #4, #9, #10

Weeks 1-11: each team plays each other once
Week 12: A1 vs. A4, A2 vs. A3, B1 vs. B4, etc.
Week 13: A1 vs. A3, A2 vs. A$, B1 vs. B3, etc.

Top 6 make playoffs, division winners get top seeds, two teams in the final and winner of the 3rd place game get promoted.

The Tier B playoffs is the same playoff structure I posted for that keeper league. We could also just do a straight 12 team with no divisions, have the last two games scheduled as random but that's not as fun, and I feel like anything we can go to make it more in depth, the better.

e: an 8-team playoff might be fun in Tier B, even though 8-of-12 is a pretty lovely playoff ratio, it leaves promotion wide open, and then there's little chance of someone winning a division with a lovely record and bouncing someone out, then division winning would only determine what your seeding is.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Dec 15, 2012

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
That sounds great.

I would, however, prefer a 6 team playoff in Tier A with round 1 BYEs for the top two seeds. Eight teams in the playoffs would be mean more than half the league gets in, which waters down the regular season.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo
Just to make sure I'm not really missing anything here- the tiers don't really matter? The theory here being that Tier-A is going to be more competitive with more active managers, the NHL to Tier-B's AHL (only they're both playing)?

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
One big difference that we're leaning towards right now is having Tier A be the keeper league and the lowest Tier be redraft. But the tiers are mostly for bragging rights down the line. Within a season, there wouldn't be much of a noticeable difference.

It also makes it much easier to expand the league. If more goons want in, it's pretty simple to create a Tier C. At that point, both Tiers A and B become keeper leagues and Tier C is redraft.

Actually, in case we do expand next year to a third tier, it might be better to keep both A and B the same size.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

Zypher posted:

That sounds great.

I would, however, prefer a 6 team playoff in Tier A with round 1 BYEs for the top two seeds. Eight teams in the playoffs would be mean more than half the league gets in, which waters down the regular season.

Personally, I've always done 8 playoff teams in 14-team leagues, but that does make sense. Let me ask you, are you dead-set on Tier A being the bigger tier? Because we could always do it in reverse, with Tier A being the 12 team and Tier B being the 14 team. Tier B could be a a straight league with an 8-team bracket, top 3 still getting promoted, and Tier A could be the 12-team league with the 6-team playoff and 3 losers of the 4-team consolation getting relegated. Then we could set up the more complex scheduling system for the keeper tier with the 3 promoted teams taking the bottom spot in each division.

Feel free to disagree, I'm just spitballing here.


e: then the "watering down" of the regular season wouldn't really matter because all of those teams are basically just fighting to get up to the big show, so turning the entire season into one long seeding battle isn't really a problem, it would if anything, make the trek toward promotion a little more difficult and exciting.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Dec 15, 2012

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
See above, I actually think it might be better to have both leagues be the same size. We can keep them both at 12 with the complex scheduling.

Faltese Malkin
Aug 22, 2005
Georgetown
:siren: this is just me thinking out loud with half baked ideas. Feel free to call me stupid :siren:

- I know it's a money league, but it'd be cool if the winner donated to a charity of their choice. Or maybe the teams that are relegated from Tier A have to donate a certain amount. The league would be finishing up around the holidays, and maybe we could get SA to help

- what if only the Top 4 teams in Tier A have the ability to use keepers or receive an extra keeper slot (with the rules you guys mentioned). The rest are dumped back into the redraft. Of course, that might make "only the rich get richer", and would be unfair to the rest of the league

- This is a stupid idea, would be incredibly difficulty to maintain, and a logistical nightmare, but i wish there was a way to implement college fantasy football into the lower tiers. I like the idea that Tier B is college, and them you're promoted to the pros in Tier A.

Again, I don't necessarily want to implement these or anything but just wanted to get some different discussion going while we're still working on how the league is set up

On a related note that's actually relevant to the league: I agree with most of the rules Obama Yo Mama's posted. The only one I don't like is the negative points for a rushing attempt, and that's only because I don't really understand the impact (I think OYM mentioned it somewhere though)

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

Zypher posted:

See above, I actually think it might be better to have both leagues be the same size. We can keep them both at 12 with the complex scheduling.

Oh, I thought we were doing a 12 and a 14, carry on then.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

Faltese Malkin posted:

On a related note that's actually relevant to the league: I agree with most of the rules Obama Yo Mama's posted. The only one I don't like is the negative points for a rushing attempt, and that's only because I don't really understand the impact (I think OYM mentioned it somewhere though)

In a 15 yards/point league, each rushing yard is worth .07. so having each attempt being worth -.07 makes a run for one yard a neutral play. Then I added an extra 1.75 to the 100-yard bonus (25x.07=1.75), so essentially what it does is rewards your RB for having a better YPC. I'm assuming that a 4 YPC is the average (even though it should probably be a little higher), anything above is slightly rewarded, and anything below is slightly punished. 100 yards on 25 carries would get you the standard bonus, but 100 yards on 10 carries would get you a few more points. 100 yards on 30 carries would get you slightly less.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Dec 15, 2012

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
It's not set in stone yet, but I really like the 12 team schedule you proposed, and I do think it would be crazy/fun to eventually add on a third tier.

I guess that's something to keep in mind when deciding keeper rules. If we do add a third tier next year, Tier B would eventually become a keeper league that has 6 teams with keepers and 6 "new" teams (3 relegated, 3 promoted). Not sure how that affects things yet, but just throwing that out there.

Faltese Malkin
Aug 22, 2005
Georgetown

Obama Yo Mama posted:

In a 15 yards/point league, each rushing yard is worth .07. so having each attempt being worth -.07 makes a run for one yard a neutral play. Then I added an extra 1.75 to the 100-yard bonus (25x.07=1.75), so essentially what it does is rewards your RB for having a better YPC. I'm assuming that a 4.5 YPC is the average, anything above is slightly rewarded, and anything below is slightly punished. 100 yards on 25 carries would get you the standard bonus, but 100 yards on 10 carries would get you a few more points. 100 yards on 30 carries would get you slightly less.

Wow that's a really good idea. So Jamaal Charles' 233 yards on 33 carries against the Saints is (slightly) less valuable then Doug Martin's 250 yards on 25 carries against Oakland

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause
And all of the sudden Arian Foster is going 7th overall



e: :negative:


e2: Charles would get 31.64 and Martin would get 33.33 not including whatever the TDs/40+ yard rushes/catches/rec. yards are

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Dec 15, 2012

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!

Faltese Malkin posted:

:siren: this is just me thinking out loud with half baked ideas. Feel free to call me stupid :siren:

- I know it's a money league, but it'd be cool if the winner donated to a charity of their choice. Or maybe the teams that are relegated from Tier A have to donate a certain amount. The league would be finishing up around the holidays, and maybe we could get SA to help

- what if only the Top 4 teams in Tier A have the ability to use keepers or receive an extra keeper slot (with the rules you guys mentioned). The rest are dumped back into the redraft. Of course, that might make "only the rich get richer", and would be unfair to the rest of the league

- This is a stupid idea, would be incredibly difficulty to maintain, and a logistical nightmare, but i wish there was a way to implement college fantasy football into the lower tiers. I like the idea that Tier B is college, and them you're promoted to the pros in Tier A.

Again, I don't necessarily want to implement these or anything but just wanted to get some different discussion going while we're still working on how the league is set up

On a related note that's actually relevant to the league: I agree with most of the rules Obama Yo Mama's posted. The only one I don't like is the negative points for a rushing attempt, and that's only because I don't really understand the impact (I think OYM mentioned it somewhere though)

I don't feel comfortable asking someone to donate their winnings to charity, but that would certainly be a cool gesture. Maybe the first winner can set a precedent/tradition, but with such a small buy in it's hard to endorse splitting the winnings up even more.

Also, I personally hate college fantasy even though I follow college football more closely than the NFL. I find CBS's college football fantasy website an absolute chore to navigate, and I've never really heard of any other site doing it right.

Faltese Malkin
Aug 22, 2005
Georgetown

Zypher posted:

I don't feel comfortable asking someone to donate their winnings to charity, but that would certainly be a cool gesture. Maybe the first winner can set a precedent/tradition, but with such a small buy in it's hard to endorse splitting the winnings up even more.

Also, I personally hate college fantasy even though I follow college football more closely than the NFL. I find CBS's college football fantasy website an absolute chore to navigate, and I've never really heard of any other site doing it right.

Yea, I guess it would be difficult to tell someone what to do with their money.

And I've never played college fantasy before, so I'll trust what you say. I only know its "college + fantasy football". What is it that makes it bad? I assume it'd be near impossible to tell what player to draft, since there might be a RB for Random College that gets 300 yards a game

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
I don't want to go on too much of a tangent regarding CFB fantasy, but it boils down to a combination of:

-An insane amount of players/teams. Even if you limit conferences, it's still more to keep track of than the NFL
-Less information available on players (injuries, starters, etc)
-Lack of parity in competition (good player on Sun Belt team > good player in SEC)
-Most players have two BYE weeks
-The CBS site is absolutely atrocious; it was probably designed in the late 90s and never updated. Navigating free agents is particularly painful.

darkspider42
Oct 7, 2004

Best Buy security. You'll have to come with me sir.
Thought to fix the up/down keeper problem:

All of the players on the teams going down are put into a pool and a three (2?) round draft is held by the players going up to choose their keepers options. The rosters being drafted lock at the end of the season to stop any shenanigans of dropping all players and picking up a bunch of kickers. Thoughts?

A large farva
Sep 5, 2006

Ramrod XTreme
I saw mention of not snaking. In most keeper leagues, you do not snake through the rounds that have the keeper as an option, but do snake after that. Thus in a 2 keeper league

Rnd1: 1-12 keeper or pick
Rnd2: 1-12 keeper or pick
Rnd3: 1-12 pick
Rnd4: 12-1 pick
Snake after that.

dalstrs
Mar 11, 2004

At least this way my kill will have some use
Dinosaur Gum
Here is a question, what site would we use?

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
ESPN, most likely. Yahoo is trash in my experience, and I've never used NFL.com before.

darkspider42 posted:

Thought to fix the up/down keeper problem:

All of the players on the teams going down are put into a pool and a three (2?) round draft is held by the players going up to choose their keepers options. The rosters being drafted lock at the end of the season to stop any shenanigans of dropping all players and picking up a bunch of kickers. Thoughts?

A supplemental draft could be a good option.

And, yes, the moment a team is relegated, their rosters will have to lock. That's part of the reason why I like having a four team playoff at the bottom of the rankings -- even if your team has sucked a big one the entire season, you still have a chance to stay alive. Hopefully that will be incentive enough to not troll the league with terrible managerial decisions.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause
I actually kinda like the idea of a supplemental draft for the promoted teams. Then the new teams won't be at a complete disadvantage, not to mention we can just throw all of the keepers at the front of the draft and be done with it.



e: Now are we going to be doing this dynasty style, where everyone keeps an entire starting roster and we just draft bench players? Or are we going to have an X amount of keepers? I was under the impression that it's going to be the latter.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Dec 17, 2012

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
OYM, what's the method behind the madness of your receiving scoring setup? Is it simply 20 yards per point because your league has so many WR slots?

quote:

Receptions: .40
Reception Yards: 20 yards per point; 3 points at 100 yards; 4.5 points at 150 yards; 2.5 points at 200 yards
Reception Touchdowns: 6

Also, minor tweak, but instead of X yards per point, I prefer fractions of a point per yard. In your example: 0.02 pts per passing yard, 0.066 pts per rushing yard, 0.05 pts per receiving yard.

It's basically the same thing except it makes it that much harder for a result to end in a tie.

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!

Obama Yo Mama posted:

e: Now are we going to be doing this dynasty style, where everyone keeps an entire starting roster and we just draft bench players? Or are we going to have an X amount of keepers? I was under the impression that it's going to be the latter.

The latter, but we haven't yet touched upon the number of keepers.

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

Zypher posted:

OYM, what's the method behind the madness of your receiving scoring setup? Is it simply 20 yards per point because your league has so many WR slots?


Also, minor tweak, but instead of X yards per point, I prefer fractions of a point per yard. In your example: 0.02 pts per passing yard, 0.066 pts per rushing yard, 0.05 pts per receiving yard.

It's basically the same thing except it makes it that much harder for a result to end in a tie.

The method to the madness is that I find that those scoring settings allow for the top-50 players in the league to be pretty balanced between the positions. Obviously the top QBs will rise to the top (that's the reason why it's 50 yards/point, 4 for TD, and -3 for INT to kind of nerf them a bit), but 15 yards/point rushing and 20 yards/point passing end up working out to a pretty even scoring.

That's the scoring settings for a Yahoo league, which allows for fractional points, so it has the same effect. I've ran that league for 4 years and I've never seen a tie (although there have been two games within .1)

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Dec 17, 2012

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause
And I just had a a interesting idea for a tweak re: Supplemental Draft

If we have a supplemental draft, we can actually have keepers with value based on where they were drafted, which I personally think is a lot better. Then let's say a team drafted Andrew Luck in the 8th round but then got relegated, you can almost bet that Luck would get taken 1st in the supplemental draft because his inherit value would be more than, let's say, Andre Johnson who got picked in the 2nd. Then that team would get Luck in the 7th round in the actual draft.


I think that has potential to be pretty awesome.


e: And let's say we only have 5 keepers, then there would be a 5-round Supplemental Draft. Let's say we want to neuter the promoted teams a little more, we can make it that all players drafted in the first 2 or 3 rounds of the Supplemental Draft would have 2 rounds added instead of 1. So Luck in the aforementioned scenario would be a 6th round pick if drafted #1.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Dec 17, 2012

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!

Obama Yo Mama posted:

That's the scoring settings for a Yahoo league, which allows for fractional points, so it has the same effect.

Well, even if the league allows for fractional points, if you enter the settings as (using passing as an example) 50 yards / point it will award 0 points until you hit 50.

50 yards / point
1/1 49 yards passing is scored as 0.10 pts
1/1 50 yards passing is scored as 1.10 pts

0.02 pts / passing yard
1/1 49 yards passing is scored as 1.08 pts
1/1 50 yards passing is scored as 1.10 pts

(includes your 0.1 bonus for the one completion)

Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause
That's not how it's worked for my league. When Charles only had 2 yards earlier today, he was listed as having 0.14 points. I guess ESPN scores differently.

Obama Yo Mama posted:

The method to the madness is that I find that those scoring settings allow for the top-50 players in the league to be pretty balanced between the positions. Obviously the top QBs will rise to the top (that's the reason why it's 50 yards/point, 4 for TD, and -3 for INT to kind of nerf them a bit), but 15 yards/point rushing and 20 yards/point passing end up working out to a pretty even scoring.

2012 leaders YTD:

1. RB A. Peterson - 288.78
2. QB R. Griffin III - 247.37
3. QB T. Brady - 246.81
4. RB D. Martin - 234.18
5. RB A. Foster - 225.43
6. QB C. Newton - 221.02
7. QB A. Rodgers - 216.22
8. QB D. Brees - 210.45
9. QB P. Manning - 208.58
10. QB M. Ryan - 202.18
11. WR B. Marshall - 199.90
12. WR A. Green - 197.78
13. WR C. Johnson - 194.70
14. QB M. Stafford - 190.71
15. RB J. Charles - 190.17
16. QB J. Freeman - 188.53
17. RB R. Rice - 186.39
18. QB A. Dalton - 186.37
19. RB M. Lynch - 179.91
20. QB C. Palmer - 176.21
21. QB T. Romo - 170.22
22. QB M. Schaub - 169.45
23. QB A. Luck - 169.01
24. WR D. Thomas - 164.30
25. WR V. Jackson - 163.75
26. RB T. Richardson - 163.32
27. WR V. Cruz - 163.30
28. WR R. Cobb - 162.95
29. RB C. Spiller - 162.89
30. RB S. Ridley - 161.77
31. QB J. Flacco - 155.59
32. QB E. Manning - 155.52
33. WR D. Bryant - 155.07
34. WR R. White - 148.65
35. WR A. Johnson 146.45
36. RB A. Morris - 145.16
37. RB F. Gore - 143.01
38. RB B. Green-Ellis - 141.77
39. WR R. Wayne - 141.37
40. WR J. Jones - 141.17
41. WR W. Welker - 140.58
42. RB C. Johnson - 139.67
43. QB B. Roethlisberger - 138.60
44. QB R. Wilson - 135.91
45. QB R. Fitzpatrick - 131.28
46. TE R. Gronkowski - 128.95
47. WR M. Colston - 128.30
48. RB A. Bradshaw - 127.66
49. TE T. Gonzalez - 124.50
50. RB M. Turner - 123.04

QBs: 19
RBs: 15
WRs: 14
TEs: 2




e: Bonus Top-20 IDPs YTD:

1. DL J. Watt - 135.45
2. LB V. Miller - 130.60
3. LB D. Washington - 130.60
4. DB C. Tillman - 122.95
5. LB L. Kuechly - 115.70
6. LB J. Mayo - 115.40
7. LB A. Smith - 113.00
8. LB L. David - 111.08
9. LB P. Posluszny - 109.75
10. DB R. Barber - 108.93
11. LB W. Woodyard - 108.15
12. DB D. McCourty - 107.80
13. DB S. Brown - 107.45
14. LB J. Laurinatis - 105.68
15. LB L. Briggs - 105.65
16. LB C. Greenway - 104.95
17. LB D. Jackson - 104.73
18. LB B. Wagner - 102.90
19. LB D. Johnson - 102.53
20. DB R. Sherman 102.00


Which puts most of the IDPs aside from the top-5 guys starting around 60th overall in scoring.

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Dec 17, 2012

Zypher
Sep 3, 2009

Rutgers

Your 2006
Mythical National
Champions!
Ah, that's really interesting to see. I thought the WR scoring would have been watered down more, but it seems on par with what you would expect.


Obama Yo Mama posted:

And I just had a a interesting idea for a tweak re: Supplemental Draft

If we have a supplemental draft, we can actually have keepers with value based on where they were drafted, which I personally think is a lot better. Then let's say a team drafted Andrew Luck in the 8th round but then got relegated, you can almost bet that Luck would get taken 1st in the supplemental draft because his inherit value would be more than, let's say, Andre Johnson who got picked in the 2nd. Then that team would get Luck in the 7th round in the actual draft.


I think that has potential to be pretty awesome.


e: And let's say we only have 5 keepers, then there would be a 5-round Supplemental Draft. Let's say we want to neuter the promoted teams a little more, we can make it that all players drafted in the first 2 or 3 rounds of the Supplemental Draft would have 2 rounds added instead of 1. So Luck in the aforementioned scenario would be a 6th round pick if drafted #1.

I like the way this is shaping up. I think a supplemental draft might be the way to go.

One potential problem -- does it give promoted/relegated teams an unfair early advantage at grabbing fantasy free agents that have had major offseason changes? For example, if Frank Gore announces his surprise retirement, would I be able to pick up Kendall Hunter at an insane discount?

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Teemu Pokemon
Jun 19, 2004

To sign them is my real test

With full no movement clause

Zypher posted:

One potential problem -- does it give promoted/relegated teams an unfair early advantage at grabbing fantasy free agents that have had major offseason changes? For example, if Frank Gore announces his surprise retirement, would I be able to pick up Kendall Hunter at an insane discount?

Not unless he was already rostered by one of the relegated teams. The Supplemental draft pool would be compromised only of players from the 3 relegated teams.

All free agents, ie. players remaining after the non-relegated teams have set their keepers and the 3 promoted teams have the supplemental draft, can only be acquired by being drafted in the main league draft.


Zypher posted:

Ah, that's really interesting to see. I thought the WR scoring would have been watered down more, but it seems on par with what you would expect.

When I first made up this scoring system 4 years ago, I literally spent two weeks tinkering with it before I got it to a point I like. There was a shitload more math and equations involved than I'm ever going to admit. But it has resulted in what I really believe is the best scoring system I've ever used so v:shobon:v

Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Dec 17, 2012

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