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just about made it out unscathed from tonight's 2nd as sd, glad to know its all downhill from here!
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Feb 27, 2023 22:22
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Bargearse posted:Thanks, everyone involved did a great job and it certainly was a memorable night. Our WM even made allowances for my girlfriend to visit us in the south afterwards and I even got to let her in on the secret location of the fourth floor beer fridge. Honestly I'd suggest waiting at least a year or two before joining any other body. You've had a huge info dump and you need that time to digest what was taught you, see a few more degrees and start to take part in a few. You learn a lot by studying the ritual in preperation for degrees. If your location does it, I'd highly recommend learning the why's and wherefors from the 1st. Q&A is also good, but many people do that. If you learn the W&W's you get invited to other lodges to do it as well, which is a great opportunity.
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Feb 27, 2023 23:34
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Oi vey. I heard last night about some big drama in my state thats coming down the line. Apparently someone joined in 2019 and receieved the 3 degrees, but soon after transitioned to a woman.
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Mar 7, 2023 16:09
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Here are UGLE's relevant positions: Gender Reassignment Policy https://www.pglwilts.org.uk/media/files/1533399313ugle-gender-reassignment-policy-1.pdf Gender and Gender Reassignment FAQs Lodges https://www.pglwilts.org.uk/media/files/1533399446ugle-gender-reassignment-faqs-2018.pdf
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Mar 7, 2023 16:24
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Good for her, I hope she gets all the care and support she needs in her transition.
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Mar 7, 2023 16:26
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Iymarra posted:Good for her, I hope she gets all the care and support she needs in her transition. Normally i'd agree, however part of the discussion last night was involving the suspicion that she joined for the purposes of 'bringing awareness'.
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Mar 7, 2023 16:40
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And is that suspicion based on anything other than a prejudiced attitude?
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Mar 7, 2023 17:02
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Sub Rosa posted:And is that suspicion based on anything other than a prejudiced attitude? I don't know, this is what I've heard from the DD and someone in the grand line. I also don't know her personally. That being said, the DD is a really upstanding and ethical man, and he's bothered by this whole situation. I do not have any personal issue with transgender individuals myself. I believe they are free to follow their own path towards happiness, and I fully support their right to chose how they want to live their lives. That being said, I'm still trying to work out mentally how I feel about trans women in the fraternity. Not out of any prejudices, but how it fits with the obligation as written in my state. If someone is in the process of transitioning when she takes the degrees, and views herself as a woman at that time, does that violate the 3rd degree obligation? Does it constitute secret evasion of mind? If before surgery and hormone therapy does she consider herself a woman? If so, does that constitute as falsehood when filling out the petition? If the woman in question joined expressly for the purposes of causing drama and sparking a fight I would have a big problem with that. Like I said, I'm still trying to work all this out mentally, and I ask the other brothers here to be gentle with me. 
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Mar 7, 2023 17:16
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I very much think UGLE is getting it right, even if they are doing so in reaction to anti-discrimination legislation. We are obligated not to make women masons. We aren't obligated not to make masons women. I would also point out the time for questioning and examining a candidate is before they move through the degrees, not after. It seems that she answered all the required questions in all the required ways if she received all the degrees. You shouldn't then impugn her character without excessive proof. In fact in some versions of the obligation one should tend to their own obligation to defend a brother's honor. And it seems pretty likely to me that her honor is under attack just because she is trans. After all her very existence is sparking drama and a fight just the same no matter no matter when she stopped considering herself a man. Let's put it this way: if we presume that she entered the fraternity honestly, never lied about her self perception (and again, one might say we are required to give a fellow Master Mason the benefit of the doubt on this), perhaps even joined this masculine society in a last ditched attempt to salvage a struggling gender identity?, but then only after becoming a Master Mason submitted to her gender dysphoria and determined to transition. Can you not say that the woman I have described would have generated the same reaction in your jurisdiction? The same accusations? I'm sure she would have, and worse, where I live. So in my opinion, lacking direct statements of the woman in question, I would think it is unmasonic to impugn her character, or even to further investigate unless she has herself made statements to the effect that she did in fact lie about her gender identity or motivation to join.
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Mar 7, 2023 18:37
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drat, I did not see that FAQ before or I forgot what it was like...UGLE posted:One of our members is living as a woman what should we do? Loving that entire document. quote:One of our members has indicated that he will blackball a male candidate because the candidate lives as a woman/ wears female clothing/ is perceived by that member to be female/ has stated that he will transition to become a woman. Thank you for linking those documents, they shifted my perspective and made me more open to my fellow humans.
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Mar 8, 2023 09:21
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so is there a specific meaning to this? is there a difference to this?  And does anyone know if Mr Bill is still alive and would one of the brothers here have his contact details? Yes, dragging up ancient forums history.
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Apr 27, 2023 19:23
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Well, it's pretty much aesthetic and I've seen both on various emblems (the Widows Sons motorbike groups use variations of it with patches on jackets and metal emblems on bikes etc.) Unless you were asking about the meaning behind the symbology, in which case you better be raised to the sublime degree of a master mason or else gtfo 
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Apr 29, 2023 00:00
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Keetron posted:
I'm sorry to say that mrbill passed away. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3911290&pagenumber=9&perpage=40&userid=0#post513087856
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Apr 29, 2023 01:34
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Oh man, that's awful to hear. He was encouraging to me when I was exploring Masonry back when I lived in Texas.
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Apr 29, 2023 01:36
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the guy from Semisonic posted:I'm sorry to say that mrbill passed away. I was afraid this was the case, I hope he found peace. deported to Canada posted:Unless you were asking about the meaning behind the symbology, in which case you better be raised to the sublime degree of a master mason or else gtfo Considering I drive a motorbike, I'll be content in thinking this is otherwise not limited in use and will consider it, with some small modifications, as an upper arm tattoo.
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Apr 29, 2023 11:32
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Keetron posted:
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Apr 29, 2023 13:55
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Keetron posted:One comment: While I am raised a master mason, this was done in the Netherlands and there are differences across the globe. Trying to learn but you are right in saying this should not be done in a public forum. Sorry if that came across as me being a bit of an rear end; If you have been raised you should hopefully be aware of the importance of the skull and crossbones without thinking *shudder* pirates or the SS (which I have heard people/cowans confuse it with). That being said mate I have seen it on plenty of tattoos so its generally a good choice, I've also seen parts of the third degree tracing board on tattoos or people have incorporated parts of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd in their own little artistic style, maybe with the working tools hidden within. I've also seen it on lapel pins worn again by plenty of brothers. For tattoos my next one is going to be my 'Mark' which I received after joining a lodge of Master Masons. It's a good little ceremony if any of you haven't done it yet.
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Apr 29, 2023 14:31
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Which countries out there besides Scotland AFAIK do the MMM and HRA as part of craft?
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Apr 29, 2023 17:48
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HRA is a different body in scotland Source : PZ
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Apr 29, 2023 18:07
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Cimber posted:Well, there are differences, yeah, but those differences are not _that_ big, unless your 3rd degree didn't talk about GMHA. We did talk about that just not with that symbol but I can see how it works that way. deported to Canada posted:Sorry if that came across as me being a bit of an rear end; If you have been raised you should hopefully be aware of the importance of the skull and crossbones without thinking *shudder* pirates or the SS (which I have heard people/cowans confuse it with). quote:That being said mate I have seen it on plenty of tattoos so its generally a good choice, I've also seen parts of the third degree tracing board on tattoos or people have incorporated parts of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd in their own little artistic style, maybe with the working tools hidden within. I've also seen it on lapel pins worn again by plenty of brothers. Good to know, thank you. My upcoming tattoo in May is nothing masonry related, this is for the one after the one after that. Chubby Henparty posted:Which countries out there besides Scotland AFAIK do the MMM and HRA as part of craft?
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Apr 29, 2023 18:48
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Yeah you can Google Third Degree Tracing Board to see it in a context.
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Apr 29, 2023 20:39
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Iymarra posted:HRA is a different body in scotland Left handed 
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Apr 30, 2023 00:28
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The mysterious Mr Larsen: MI5 spy, terrorist or Walter Mitty fantasist? If you are wondering what any of this has to do with Freemasonry, just keep reading. That's my lodge they mention! Unfortunately, this particular aspect of the story has only been covered by the Danish press, but I am adding a link to a Danish newspaper article for people who either read the language or can be bothered to read Google translated text. SimonChris fucked around with this message at 18:28 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 18:24
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I guess that's why you have a Tyler!
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May 2, 2023 14:04
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About to go to my first lodge since moving house three months ago. Had to get really creative with public transport schedules to make it happen, though. Tonight were having a lecture from a visiting American mason, Shawn Momen if anyone here has heard of him.
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May 15, 2023 09:30
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I got pretty upset today at lodge when the WM used the term 'libtard' to describe one of the writers of a Masonic book, who also happens to be a brother.
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May 16, 2023 03:04
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Always the most disappointing when it comes from people who really should know better.
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May 16, 2023 23:26
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Cimber posted:I got pretty upset today at lodge when the WM used the term 'libtard' to describe one of the writers of a Masonic book, who also happens to be a brother. "Your Obedience must be proved by a strict observance of our laws and regulations, by prompt attention to all signs and summonses, by modest and correct demeanor in the Lodge, by abstaining from every topic of political or religious discussion." That would be my response to that if I were there.
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May 20, 2023 02:39
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Our Lodge is at a crossroads where the young guys are finally doing the work and ready to make new masons and the old sideliners of course want to bitch about every little change ever. Neither side listens to the other. At our last stated our WM was out of town so I subbed in and ran the meeting. Old codger didn't like that I followed my own agenda. Stormed out of a meeting after I gavelled him down because he interrupted me multiple times to cut his agenda in front of mine. Former DDGM. I just wish to christ our members would follow the teachings we talk about and practice. It's getting real old that nobody can communicate anymore. Thanks for hearing me bitch about lodge poo poo.
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May 22, 2023 03:27
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There very much seems to be a changing of the guard happening in Freemasonry in my jurisdiction. Like, everyone in my lodge seems to agree that for Freemasonry to stay relevant some things have to change, but for it to remain Freemasonry some things must never change, but nobody can agree which is which.
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May 22, 2023 09:30
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We had immense resistance to what is now such a simple thing - a website. Then, the old arguments were trotted out for a facebook page. Ironic, that both of these things have seen a marked turnup in membership, though I can't attest for the new brethren as I have been out since 2016. Still miss it, still think about getting back in but there's that, you know, the resistance? The anxiety? Anyway. 'We cant change <thing> because it's always been done this way' is an argument as old as time. I'd suggest perhaps approaching those with concerns in a quieter place, discuss their fears. After all, time is nobody's friend and the younger members will have to stand on their own two feet eventually, whether allowed by the old PMs or, well, when the PMs pass on.
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May 22, 2023 09:37
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Instead of learnign my ritual or supporting craft I joined a new degree. I finally found the one full of old part time wizards who love to debate the esoterica and it was a breath of fresh air. Gonna join a college.
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May 22, 2023 10:06
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Bargearse posted:There very much seems to be a changing of the guard happening in Freemasonry in my jurisdiction. Like, everyone in my lodge seems to agree that for Freemasonry to stay relevant some things have to change, but for it to remain Freemasonry some things must never change, but nobody can agree which is which. What it needs to remain is pretty clearly written and when it comes down to it, it is very little. At our lodge we have a few younger Brethren who run this side of things and the elderly are mostly happy to sit and watch the show. We had some people leave to other lodges over it but we also had quite a few come to us for the exact same reason. As a lodge I think we are doing well, as an order, I am not so sure.
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May 22, 2023 10:08
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There is a very old term called swarming to be mentioned. Traditionally the thing young discontented brothers are supposed to do is splinter. I have the impression that it's much harder to stand up a new lodge these days, which means it has been more likely the young and the restless end up bouncing off.
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May 22, 2023 16:25
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I actually haven't personally attended lodge since before the pandemic myself, but I'm lucky to be part of a small close-knit online study group of Masons studying old Masonic texts. Has everything from people like me that never did anything beyond reciting my third degree catechism all the way to published authors and former GMs.
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May 22, 2023 16:38
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Sub Rosa posted:There is a very old term called swarming to be mentioned. Traditionally the thing young discontented brothers are supposed to do is splinter. "Why do you want to go off and start a new lodge when you should stay at this lodge that is 112 years old and support it! I know the DDGM and i'll tell him not to allow you to form a new lodge!"
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May 22, 2023 16:59
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I appreciate the words of encouragement. I think I get frustrated because brothers are too busy forming counter arguments and defending positions before they've listened to a complaint. I understand why, and the old guard is very much to blame, however if we just perpetuate what they taught us we will continue to run off new brothers faster than we can make them. One of the most important reasons for Fraternity I thought was we could talk more frankly among ourselves and even be vulnerable with each other than with a mixed sex club.(toxic masculinity alive and well). My favorite moments are when I can strongly disagree with a brother but still meet on the level and hash our differences out in the social hall. We are to avoid piques and quarrels but it seems the only reason we have meetings anymore is to entertain them. I don't know if it's just American culture leaking in past the West Gate or what, but civility is becoming the exception not the rule it feels like. I know my lodge is not unique in this. I'll end on a positive note by saying the quality of our degree work and the quality of candidates we've seen has us buzzing. I am wary of failing them with the same BS I fought for 12 years.
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May 23, 2023 03:47
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As a general question, what is it that you feel is driving off newer members? I think most if not all lodges have some kind of internal quandary or disagreement going on, and the changing of the guard can be a troublesome time. In part I can understand it - my lodge has members of multiple generations belong to it and they want to do the workings the same way its been for their fathers and grandfathers. But I don't feel this is what turns newer people off, quite the opposite in my opinion as some enjoy seeing that things have been consistent for 100 plus years. Also our older brethren all say that once they retired they became full time freemasons so you have to admire their commitment (and their getting in early to set up the lodge/festive board!) I know getting on the ladder always causes problems when installation time comes with some brothers just assuming they are taking roles only to be told that they can't. Tends to be joining members who were something like JD in their last lodge so they assume they will come in as SD only to be told to join the back of the queue. The biggest drama causing incident I've witnessed was a blackballing and oh boy did that get messy. More because if you have an issue you are meant to tell the secretary in advance and the vote won't go ahead if the problem can't be resolved. Instead 5 brothers voted against and my goodness did everyone have strong opinions. Guys - don't ever do this in your lodge, speak to your secretary if you have any concerns about a candidate. My biggest gripe was last year when we were told to put up a placard on our building identifying it as a lodge; I really liked the 'hidden in plain sight' element of the building and now it looks like it has a tourist information sign on the wall. Clearly that isn't enough to make me consider my membership though.
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May 24, 2023 15:38
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deported to Canada posted:My biggest gripe was last year when we were told to put up a placard on our building identifying it as a lodge; I really liked the 'hidden in plain sight' element of the building and now it looks like it has a tourist information sign on the wall. Clearly that isn't enough to make me consider my membership though. The most drama I seen was the part where the lodge building was in disrepair due to ... well, reasons of incompetence and money and then it had to be fixed. All was sorta well in the end but yeah, I kinda stopped caring about the building and now care more about the people. We don't need many bricks to be a lodge, we need brethren. Anyway, look up the UGLE building and then reconsider how hidden that is. (https://goo.gl/maps/QMyND3jsHxGKnRs26) This is the Amsterdam building, also not very hidden: https://goo.gl/maps/swMbqywniwqwX3pRA or this one in Singapore: https://goo.gl/maps/ESHPSquBhdjQn1Qs6 So yes, I understand your point and to be honest, I think making our craft more known to people is not a bad thing in itself.
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May 24, 2023 16:28
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Keetron posted:So yes, I understand your point and to be honest, I think making our craft more known to people is not a bad thing in itself. You are absolutely correct of course, and the signage was to make our building more obvious and raise awareness to potential new members. The three examples you posted are good looking buildings that were purpose built with the symbology incorporated into the construction. Our signage has the same logo as the Masonic Charitable Foundation (https://mcf.org.uk/) which I suppose I'm not a big fan of the more modern design. I still loved turning up with my briefcase to what the locals called the "Library that was never open" and letting myself in. I guess the mystery was what appealed to me for a long time, like, what's going on inside that building?
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May 24, 2023 16:59
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