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The Grand Orient de France sounds super rad, I wish we had something like that here.
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Dec 18, 2012 16:53
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| # ¿ May 3, 2024 09:32 |
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Well, they're not Masonry but if you're looking for them I'm sure you'll find them in North America. They seem to describe them selves as masonry. "The Grand Orient de France (GODF) is the largest of several Masonic organizations in France and the oldest in Continental Europe" Do continental masons say american style masonry isn't real masonry? Is it a matter of opinion or are continental masons not "real" masons?
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Dec 18, 2012 18:05
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I've always been pretty interested in masonry, me and a few friends were fairly seriously considering joining up. Does Canadian masonry differ much from american? I'm trying to read up on it but I can't really tell if it's any more progressive than the american version. Any Canadian masons around? Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Dec 18, 2012 |
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Dec 18, 2012 18:10
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Where did the whole "no women" thing come from and how is it so deeply essential to being a mason? Is it just a matter of blindly guarding a tradition or is there some deeper importance? Society as a whole has progressed quite a bit since freemasonry has been around, why does it get a "pass" for not advance with it? Is there any sort of movement within masonry to try to separate the historical baggage related to the time in which the rules were created from the core elements?
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Dec 18, 2012 18:35
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So it all just comes down to tradition basically? All I'm hearing is "yeah its sexist, but we're not sexist, we just can't change the sexist rules because they're the rules and besides we actually like being a sexist boys club (not sexist for reals though)" or did I miss something? The sports analogy doesn't really work because it's also a pretty clear example of sexism. Should it not be purely based on athletic abilities? Should masons not be based purely on moral character? If a ritual would be awkward to do with a woman maybe the ritual needs to be changed, or the reasons for the discomfort among the male members examined and maybe "gotten over" ? Discomfort and awkwardness over women being included in traditionally male activities is not an excuse for sexism, it's an opportunity for personal growth (see: getting over being awkward sexists) Maybe it's a secret but I still don't understand how women would be so incompatible. Is there a ritual that involves actual genitals? Other than that I'm either too stupid or not good and old enough to get it. I don't want to get all tumbler social justice warrior in here but I'm just really curious how people and organizations, specially ones claiming to be all about upstanding morality and character (including not really being sexist), can rationalize such discriminatory rules and ideas regarding gender.
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Dec 18, 2012 19:14
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| # ¿ May 3, 2024 09:32 |
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We don't have fraternities where I live, in fact they are banned from university for being discriminatory among other problems. From what I know about them yes I think they are deeply sexist and more often than not harmful to both their own members and society at large and I'm supportive of their ban (as were a large majority of the voters here) I'm not getting much of an answer other than "well we aren't sexist, we just really like being a traditional boys club with the trappings of sexism and sexist rules". I can't think of a definition of sexism where willingly being part of a sexist organization, specially when one agrees with the sexism within it, doesn't make one a sexist. Anyways, I don't want to poo poo up your thread with SJW bullshit I'm sure you've heard a million times so I'll bow out if this isn't a line of discussion you guys want to go down.
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Dec 18, 2012 19:34
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