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cdyoung posted:Well, firing the head writer half way through the third game sorta does that. It's all but confirmed that he was brought back to pen Suikoden V's story due to how it worked with what meta was left from the first three... But by then the fatal blow IV did was too advanced to save anything. You say that last part like they were forced into it. As I recall, Konami's CEO basically smiled as he burned as many bridges as possible with a bunch of skilled programmers and a certain famous developer, JUST so they could make cheap-but-high-selling garbage like mobile games and slots/pachinko machines with old franchises slapped onto them for a few extra sales.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:22
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Bufuman posted:You say that last part like they were forced into it. As I recall, Konami's CEO basically smiled as he burned as many bridges as possible with a bunch of skilled programmers and a certain famous developer, JUST so they could make cheap-but-high-selling garbage like mobile games and slots/pachinko machines with old franchises slapped onto them for a few extra sales. I think most of us know that Konami is secretly headed by bunch of retarded monkeys. That, and Jim Sterling has made it his life mission to tear Konami a new one (not that they don't deserve it). mauman fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 04:37
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Glad to see this is back! I'm definitely looking forward to the commentary you'll have on Luc's chapter. Honestly, given how Konami treated the series for IV and V, I'm kinda glad they didn't make a direct sequel to this game. We're all painfully aware of what a trainwreck IV was thanks to Vilk's LP. If they brought that sort of "vision" for a game designed to continue or wrap up the overarching plot, it'd be...eeugh.
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Jan 2, 2017 05:55
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IV wasn't-- well, it was the worst Suikoden, but it wasn't the worst game ever. With some tightening up they could have improved on their weak points and continued the plot in a satisfactory way...! In my imagination, where anything is possible, anyway.
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Jan 2, 2017 06:29
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Amidiri posted:IV wasn't-- well, it was the worst Suikoden, but it wasn't the worst game ever. With some tightening up they could have improved on their weak points and continued the plot in a satisfactory way...! Gotta disagree, Suikoden IV was just a bad RPG in general.
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Jan 2, 2017 08:01
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Testekill posted:Gotta disagree, Suikoden IV was just a bad RPG in general. Get game genie type codes Activate lower random encounters Speed up boat travel Game gets a lot better.
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Jan 2, 2017 12:03
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hanales posted:Get game genie type codes Slow movement on a world map and a lovely encounter rate kill RPGs, it says a lot that the game gets a fair bit more bearable once you recruit Viki or you start NG+ with a champion rune.
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Jan 2, 2017 13:02
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Testekill posted:it says a lot that the game gets a fair bit more bearable once you recruit Viki But isn't that just true in general?
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Jan 2, 2017 15:30
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Testekill posted:Gotta disagree, Suikoden IV was just a bad RPG in general. The loving SEAAAAAAAAA
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Jan 2, 2017 15:42
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Glazius posted:Empty world and somehow beep boops. I am curious what was supposed to happen to create that future, honestly. The runes were drawing all the power into themselves? They kept getting used for conflict and ran out? Fister Roboto posted:Honestly it was kind of a weird plot revelation that came entirely out of nowhere and I'm glad they dropped it completely. mauman posted:It made sense to me. If nothing else, I really like the imagery involved in the empty world. But yeah, they were leading up to some pretty crazy poo poo in Harmonia, so it was probably tied into the Circle Rune. Part of me is sad that we'll never know, but part of me is happy that Konami didn't even try it without the lead writer. Testekill posted:I.... completely forgot about the empty world thing. Hunter Noventa posted:So did everyone else. There was no sign of it in IV and V. I remember it, but not there being encounters inside of it. I always think it happens earlier than it does. Was kind of expecting it for the scene on the bridge when the FC gets their rune taken by Luc instead, but I think that's because it happens around (the equivalent of) that time in the manga. It's also a little more central to the plot in the manga, because it happens earlier. vilkacis posted:Hey, I've only played like a third of the series! ...so far. There are a lot of fights you can struggle through out of sheer determination and healing items with only Hugo riding on Fubar.
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Jan 2, 2017 20:35
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The fight with Harmonia and the secret of Hikusaak were always meant to be the climax of the saga, the conclusion, with all the misteries, or at least MOST of them, finally wrapped up. To be honest I'd have appreciated another prequel: the story of Hikusaak gaining the Circle rune and the founding of Harmonia.
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Jan 2, 2017 20:58
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Guy Fawkes posted:The fight with Harmonia and the secret of Hikusaak were always meant to be the climax of the saga, the conclusion, with all the misteries, or at least MOST of them, finally wrapped up. hah, so a tenkai star that stuck around after their true rune war to rule? that's a neat idea.
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Jan 2, 2017 21:04
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:hah, so a tenkai star that stuck around after their true rune war to rule? that's a neat idea. To be fair, you can choose to stick around in Suikoden II - it's not the best ending, though. Maybe Hikusaak didn't get all 108 stars and got stuck on the normal ending. Maybe that would explain what a jerk he is (he's gotta be a jerk right?) since his friend/sig other/parent/sibling/etc stayed dead. Who knows, though it could have been an awesome story. I know that V had some issues (loading times, camera angles, missable recruits) but story wasn't one of them. (Yes, it takes time to start up, but it's all necessary to building a coherent, interesting, multi-layered story and give a good idea of the politics and history that you can piece together. I quite liked that.) They did a great job on the game.
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Jan 3, 2017 00:16
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silversatyr posted:To be fair, you can choose to stick around in Suikoden II - it's not the best ending, though. Maybe Hikusaak didn't get all 108 stars and got stuck on the normal ending. Maybe that would explain what a jerk he is (he's gotta be a jerk right?) since his friend/sig other/parent/sibling/etc stayed dead. Who knows, though it could have been an awesome story. There's some amazing gut punching scenes in V. A couple that are missable even. And of course they inserted even MORE FREAKING MYSTERIES of backstory, instead of resolving anything at all.
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Jan 3, 2017 00:22
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Sometimes I think to myself that if I suddenly had a billion dollars, I would totally buy up the rights to Suikoden and get someone to actually make me a Suikoden VI. I mean odds are nobody could make it work but drat, even games like Suikoden just don't have the same feel as actual Suikoden games.
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Jan 3, 2017 01:45
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Amidiri posted:IV wasn't-- well, it was the worst Suikoden, but it wasn't the worst game ever.
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Jan 3, 2017 17:16
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Edvarius posted:I dunno, was it really worse than Tierkreis? Yes. quote:it at least managed to keep fairly entertaining war battles I disagree. Much like the entire rest of S4, the war battles are based on a promising concept that the game then proceeds to do nothing interesting whatsoever with. quote:and fit into the series mythology. It doesn't actually do anything with it, though. I mean, I suppose Ted's bit does exist, but all that accomplishes is pissing you off by hinting at something that would be more interesting than the game you're actually playing. quote:Tierkries didn't even accomplish that much. But unlike IV, Tierkreis is a decent jrpg taken on its own.
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Jan 3, 2017 19:01
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vilkacis posted:I disagree. Much like the entire rest of S4, the war battles are based on a promising concept that the game then proceeds to do nothing interesting whatsoever with. Haha, you can say this again re: S4. I remember doing the first war battle and thinking it was a really neat concept, and then I don't think I took a single hit in any war fight in the entire game. Like I know that they were intentionally trying demonstrate that Snowe is a useless garbage baby but no other enemy was remotely competent either.
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Jan 3, 2017 19:03
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But IV has two very good things going for it! One, it has Eleanor, and she is amazing. And two, it has Graham Cray, who, when he got a True Rune, decided that he really didn't feel like being dicked around by a sentient symbol, cut his arm off, and got a robot arm instead. Yeah, okay, he regretted that later and spent the whole game trying to get it back, but still. Even if we do have an example of someone both safely removing a True Rune and not going on a murder-spree to get it back later (Iroh), it's still pretty cool.
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Jan 3, 2017 19:44
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I thought Glen was one of the few good characters in that game, especially with how prone he was to countering Snowe's whining and cowardice with a punch to the face. So of course he has to die a couple of hours into the game. I'm only slightly bitter
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Jan 4, 2017 00:54
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vilkacis posted:But unlike IV, Tierkreis is a decent jrpg taken on its own. As long as you play it muted. I will defend Tierkreis as being a decent game (just not a decent Suikoden game; it would have worked better without being a franchise rider), but I will not defend that voice acting. 
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Jan 4, 2017 01:00
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KataraniSword posted:As long as you play it muted. Japanese voice acting is solid, it's just a combination of Konami being cheap with the dub (Jale/Rajim, Nhazu/Moana/Lao-Kwan & Diadora are the only characters with someone that has a notable voice acting history) and having to cram the English audio into the same amount of space as the Japanese audio which means that Sieg HASTOTALKREALLYFASTTOFITEVERYTHINGIN. edit: The voice actress for Chrodechild had never done voice acting before or since. I'm not trying to be mean but she was so wooden and is clear proof that voice acting is nothing like regular acting. edit2: Lucinda Davis (Nhazu/Moana/Lao-Kwan) & Patricia Summerset (Diadora)are actually regulars in Ubisoft games. Teirkreis was actually Summerset's second ever role so well done to her for how her voice acting career has panned out. Testekill fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 05:07
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mauman posted:It made sense to me. I am pretty sure the True Circle Rune is what's actually ruling Holy Harmonia. Hikusaak founded Harmonia something like 1000 years ago and hasn't been seen in centuries. We've never heard of anyone hosting a True Rune for this long with the exception of Sierra, and she somehow got the Moon Rune off her body onto an altar in Blue Moon Village. Hikusaak used gross rune magic to clone himself vessels for the True Wind and Earth Runes. I think under the main temple/palace of Harmonia is the Circle Rune in it's true form, having diced up most of Hikusaak's human body to create rune vessels. Thankfully, the Holy Harmonian Empire are tremendous fuckups when it comes to actually getting the runes. They had the Beast Rune and couldn't contain it. They never even went after Neclord's Moon Rune. Leknaat stole Luc from them somehow. The Rugner's managed to revolt against them and steal the Sovereign Rune. Also, they never made a serious play for either the Sun or Punishment Runes.
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Jan 4, 2017 14:35
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Well to be fair to 4, the beginning is solid. Like. Everything up to getting your ship and leaving Obel is decent to good, even with 4's IssuesTM bogging it down. It's just that the part where the game should really have taken off was instead the point where everything fizzled into elves, ocean, and fuckall else for 10 hours and then you fight a tree. Poque posted:Like I know that they were intentionally trying demonstrate that Snowe is a useless garbage baby but no other enemy was remotely competent either. Hey, don't be like that, the very final boss actually has a very small chance of inflicting damage on you!! yokaiy posted:But IV has two very good things going for it! One, it has Eleanor, and she is amazing. And two, it has Graham Cray, who, when he got a True Rune, decided that he really didn't feel like being dicked around by a sentient symbol, cut his arm off, and got a robot arm instead. Yeah, okay, he regretted that later and spent the whole game trying to get it back, but still. Even if we do have an example of someone both safely removing a True Rune and not going on a murder-spree to get it back later (Iroh), it's still pretty cool. vilkacis posted:Much like the entire rest of S4, Elenor and Cray are based on promising concepts that the game then proceeds to do nothing interesting whatsoever with. Don't get me wrong, drunk and bitter Silverberg is best Silverberg, it's just. They do nothing with her beyond pissing away potential. Cray telling the RoP to gently caress off is legit one of the most badass things in the history of the series, but they still don't use him nearly as much or well as they could have.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:23
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vilkacis posted:Well to be fair to 4, the beginning is solid. Like. Everything up to getting your ship and leaving Obel is decent to good, even with 4's IssuesTM bogging it down. It's just that the part where the game should really have taken off was instead the point where everything fizzled into elves, ocean, and fuckall else for 10 hours and then you fight a tree. It's kind of the opposite of Suikoden V where the beginning is horrifically slow and boring but then the rest of the game is incredible even if so much of it is clearly just "well hey this worked in previous games; let's just do it again with different people." The "3 parties against 1 dude" thing being the most obvious, except Childerich is a poor stand-in for Luca Blight. (at least I think that happened; it's been a while. I know there was certainly a zillion duels with Childerich who is a silly villain and not scary like Luca Blight.) vilkacis posted:Don't get me wrong, drunk and bitter Silverberg is best Silverberg, it's just. They do nothing with her beyond pissing away potential. Cray telling the RoP to gently caress off is legit one of the most badass things in the history of the series, but they still don't use him nearly as much or well as they could have. I seriously didn't even understand Graham Cray's motivations the first time I played because the game was so goddamned boring and I just used Jeane to nuke everything so I could get to the end and see what happened. It wasn't until Suikoden Tactics came out that I bothered to play Suikoden IV for real so that I could get Lazlo in Tactics.
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Jan 4, 2017 15:47
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FairGame posted:I seriously didn't even understand Graham Cray's motivations the first time I played because the game was so goddamned boring and I just used Jeane to nuke everything so I could get to the end and see what happened. It wasn't until Suikoden Tactics came out that I bothered to play Suikoden IV for real so that I could get Lazlo in Tactics. I've played Suik4 twice, but only because the first time I wasn't paying attention at the end and sent Lino/Jeane/Ted away for the stealth mission and couldn't use them for the more difficult fights. I lost interest basically immediately in training up anybody else at all because nobody in the game besides those three is remotely fun or good.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:13
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dragon_pamcake posted:Thankfully, the Holy Harmonian Empire are tremendous fuckups when it comes to actually getting the runes. They had the Beast Rune and couldn't contain it. They never even went after Neclord's Moon Rune. Leknaat stole Luc from them somehow. The Rugner's managed to revolt against them and steal the Sovereign Rune. Also, they never made a serious play for either the Sun or Punishment Runes. To be fair, the Sun Rune is an apocalyptic nuclear weapon and loving nobody wants the Rune of Punishment. Harmonia would probably rather mop up every other rune they can get their hands on first before making a move on Falena or trying to track down the RoP. It's a shame we never got to see what the Eightfold Rune's deal was, or if Pesmerga had something similar going. How did that guy not show up in Suiko 3 anyway?
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Jan 5, 2017 18:22
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dragon_pamcake posted:They never even went after Neclord's Moon Rune. In addition to what was said right above, they did make a move on the Blue Moon Rune by sending Nash after Sierra. It just so happened that he married her instead of... whatever the intended endgame was for that scenario. Assumedly they would go after Neclord's Moon Rune after getting Sierra's, considering Blue Moon effectively works as a control bolt for it.
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Jan 5, 2017 20:06
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Neclord's rune was the Moon Rune, there wasn't a second one. He stole it from Sierra, it's just it still considered her its rightful owner. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 21:23
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Stormgear posted:To be fair, the Sun Rune is an apocalyptic nuclear weapon and loving nobody wants the Rune of Punishment. Harmonia would probably rather mop up every other rune they can get their hands on first before making a move on Falena or trying to track down the RoP. There is also the matter of Falena being in the southern continent: there are a ocean and several big countries to divide the Sun Rune from Harmonia. Without Viki's teleportation abilities (in IV she can carry several ships in a single spell) the logistic of a conquest army would be a nightmare in this era, in a pseudomedieval setting is a recipe for a disaster. Stormgear posted:It's a shame we never got to see what the Eightfold Rune's deal was, or if Pesmerga had something similar going. How did that guy not show up in Suiko 3 anyway? The only clue we got about the role of the Eightfold Rune is a comment in II, when he tells Riou that the Shield Rune is the one True Rune he hates the most; it is to be remembered that in Suikoden the counterpart of the Circle Rune is non the Eightfold (Chaos) but the Change Rune.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:25
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Well, you also have to remember that the Bright Shield Rune is only HALF a True Rune. Its real form is the Rune of Beginning. Is there a Rune of Ending? I'm talking like, the apocalypse here.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:36
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Tallgeese posted:Well, you also have to remember that the Bright Shield Rune is only HALF a True Rune. Yes, it is called Konami.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:37
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Guy Fawkes posted:There is also the matter of Falena being in the southern continent: there are a ocean and several big countries to divide the Sun Rune from Harmonia. Without Viki's teleportation abilities (in IV she can carry several ships in a single spell) the logistic of a conquest army would be a nightmare in this era, in a pseudomedieval setting is a recipe for a disaster. I imagine that this is made worse by the fact that at any time (so long as Dawn and Twilight runes are on hand), the Queen of Falena can presumably just glance vaguely in the direction of the invading fleet and set all the boats on fire. Man, I wish we'd have gotten another chance to visit Falena. The Eightfold Rune thing is interesting, though, as I seem to remember Yuber working with Jowy at times. Also apparently the Bright Shield Rune represents chaos, while the Black Sword is order, which is especially mind-boggling, but that's from the Suiko 3 Manga, so I'm not too sure how true it is. I'd put it down to Yuber disliking the role the Bright Shield had in bringing about the world, and the powers and runes that descended from it as a result. Also, if Luc really wanted to break the order of the world by shattering a true rune, why would he do it to the one that governs what everyone breathes? Break the Dragon Rune, or something. What do Dragons bring to the world other than being awesome sidekicks?
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Jan 5, 2017 21:47
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Poque posted:Yes, it is called Konami. Tierkreis Rune
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Jan 5, 2017 21:50
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Stormgear posted:What do Dragons bring to the world other than being awesome sidekicks? you're a monster
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Jan 5, 2017 22:15
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Stormgear posted:
Pesmerga is currently hosting the Beast Rune. It turned him into a dog. Stormgear posted:
Luc really wanted to say, "gently caress you, Dad" to Hikusaak. Also I know the manga isn't canon, but it makes the point that Luc was in two really terrible True Rune wars at a very young age so he may be a little hosed in the head and it's a lot easier to blow up the rune you're carrying instead of one way the gently caress off in Tinto surrounded by dragons and knights.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:28
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Guy Fawkes posted:There is also the matter of Falena being in the southern continent: there are a ocean and several big countries to divide the Sun Rune from Harmonia. Without Viki's teleportation abilities (in IV she can carry several ships in a single spell) the logistic of a conquest army would be a nightmare in this era, in a pseudomedieval setting is a recipe for a disaster.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:51
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dragon_pamcake posted:Pesmerga is currently hosting the Beast Rune. It turned him into a dog. I mean, that lines up with the first two games he makes appearances in, so it sounds legit.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:08
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hanales posted:I mean, that lines up with the first two games he makes appearances in, so it sounds legit. There are six dogs in this game. Totally lines up.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:48
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Edvarius posted:Plus the Sun Rune carries the unfortunate side effect of giving its bearer a massive god complex. Beyond jokes about Hikusaak not wanting the competition, it would probably be near impossible to keep a bearer of the Sun Rune under control as a subordinate, or even have one as a partner, for long. Well, unless you have the Night Rune. Or supposedly the Twilight and Dawn Runes. But yeah, some True Runes you really don't want to gently caress with. Hunter Noventa fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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