Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa
That's definitely true, the French command was all sorts of hosed up. I still find it hard to believe that even in Gay Black Hitler territory they wouldn't agree to "maybe let's have our superior archers shoot at those guys"

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

Sulecrist posted:

How many troops tended to be in blocks/formations of pikes or bills or bows or men-at-arms or whatever? I'm sure it varies massively and a ballpark answer would be fine. If I need to narrow it down, let's say Wars of the Roses England and answer for dudes with polearms, dudes with ranged weapons, mounted knights, and dismounted knights.

I'm sorry if this has come up before; I'm still working through the thread and haven't seen it yet.

Armies at the time you're referring to aren't really organized and regimented in the way I think you're imagining. It's still mostly based on standing around with guys who are from the same area as you, and you're standing there because your lord is there, and he's there because that's where all of his lords retainers are standing, and his lord was told to stand in that part of the line by the king or whatever, etc. Your infantry formation is basically just going to be a big line, a few rows deep. Sometimes there are multiple lines.

If you're an archer or mounted, you might be standing somewhere else by virtue of being in a more specialized (for lack of a better term) role, but even then it's not really broken into units with subordinate commanders or anything like that.

Rabhadh posted:

The English didn't have to do anything to get the French to fight, they really wanted to fight. The hold up was because they realised the English were in too good a position, which is why the English had to advance and loose a few arrows to get the party started.

Well that and the French were waiting for more reinforcements. The French were pretty sure they were going to win, but recognized the defensive strength of the English position. They wanted to hedge their bets a bit by waiting for the rest of the French army to arrive. In hindsight it's hard to say if those extra men would have really made a difference, but Henry certainly felt he needed to goad the French into battle before their forces got any bigger.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

JaucheCharly posted:

Dude posted this in the milhist thread, not a single soul responded.

awww man, I found out from one of the albums that the Higgins Armory museum in Worchester, MA closed. I used to love going there as a kid when we visited my grandparents. It was a really neat museum. I remember they had a section where you could wear reproductions of medieval armor as well, at least they did one time I visited. Somewhere my parents have a picture of a 7 or 8 year old me struggling to stand while wearing a barbute.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa
In medieval times? aside from sieges, basically none. Even the bloodiest battles lasted a day or two at most. My guess is many of the longer/bloodier ones involved a class of cultures or religion like the Crusades or Mongol invasions.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

Hastings is the most famous example but Kulikovo, Falkirk, and Legnano all come to mind.

Note, however, that we don't have precise casualty counts for any of these battles, and these are infrequent even late in the period.


Given the number of men we're usually talking about, "a day or two" is an extremely long time. I mean, consider that even the Battle of Antietam was only a one-day affair and contained enough men to comprise an impossibly large host by medieval standards.

Also, historiographically speaking, "battles" are generally separate from sieges, especially when the term "pitched battles" is used.

In all this it is important to keep in mind that battles are rare affairs in medieval warfare. Richard the Lionheart only participated in 2 or 3 battles in his life. Louis VI of France participated in 2, one of which is arguably only a skirmish.

As far as casualty count, one of Louis' battles, Brémule, comes to mind because it is in the earlier part of the period and is especially interesting given that nobody died. Out of a force of 400 knights Louis lost 140. Considering that these were all captured and the rout was not heavily pursued, that still comprises about 1/3 of his force. Thus even in this relatively bloodless affair you have a significant casualty count. For a more extreme example, with a more considerable cavalry element, the battle of Evesham in 1265 resulted in the destruction of the majority of the approx. 5000 strong barionial host.

very good point. in terms of percentages, medieval battles could be devastating in terms of casualties/captures, like you mentioned. I was interpreting the question as pure body count, though.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

This, more or less, is my hunch. I also suspect that gisarme might, in Wace's time, be a catchall term for non-spearlike polearms. This is partly because Wace is using a French term, which suggests that there is, at least, a polearm of some kind in France. The other major reason is because of the "giserne" in the 14th century manuscript of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which is an crescent-shaped axe (not too unlike a berdysh).

I mean, this is based on a cursory googling so take it with a grain of salt, but I read that Chaucer also used the terms "gisarme" and "bill" (referring to the tool/weapon) somewhat interchangeably in a few of his writings.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa
make me a mighty blade, for dragon slaying

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa
Not super scientific, but relevant to the discussion:
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/i-tried-a-medieval-diet-and-i-didnt-even-get-that-drunk

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

Rabhadh posted:

Everybody's talking about swords and I'm just here thinking about which stick I want to buy



B or E imo

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

Kopijeger posted:

Why French- and Russian-speakers? You'd expect most of the scholarship to come from areas that were actually part of the Empire, so you'd think there would be more from Italy and the Balkans than from France or Russia. Come to think of it, to what degree do North Africans, Levantines and Turks study the Roman and Byzantine legacy of their countries?

Not sure about French speakers, but part of the Russian mythos for centuries has been that they're "the third Rome" and the heirs to Byzantium. Historically they had pretty strong ties to the region as well, like the Eastern Orthodox Church for example.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

Kopijeger posted:

I knew about that, but it still seems relatively flimsy compared to the connection the areas which were actually part of the Empire would have. Though I suppose it could simply be a question of Russia having a greater population than any Balkan country and thus more historians studying the era.

I guess my point is that people often study what they are interested in, so it makes sense for the culture that has long considered itself to be the heir of Constantinople to produce many more historians who choose to study the topic

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa

HEY GAL posted:

turks? in 1096?

Seljuks

  • Locked thread