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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Right. If you have no problem with the horse alien and the frog picking up the hammer, it's as uncontroversial as it gets. It's honestly not even as radical as the horse alien. He's got his own hammer and just got Thor's powers when he picked up the hammer. It's exactly like the Frog though, in that it's literally just Thor but now he looks different. Unless you're talking about the OTHER Thor Frog that had his own hammer made and was a separate character and...Well, that's a topic for another thread, I think.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:48
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TheJoker138 posted:Also the new Thor isn't a "new character." Just like when Loki was a woman for a while it was still just Loki. This is just Thor in a different shell. Actually, the new Thor is a new character. Thor is, apparently, unworthy of Mjolnir for whatever reason, and a new character picks up the hammer and becomes Thor, because it's now a title instead of exclusively a person. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=54083
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Jul 18, 2014 21:49
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Xeremides posted:That's why it's perfect. And with Rogers acting as Bruce Wayne to Falcon's Terry McGiness, there's a lot of room for interesting story-telling. They didn't need to kill off Rogers to make Falcon Cap. Granted, they made him physically useless, but at least its old age and not because he's a piece of poo poo. You realise your comics will be back to the same old poo poo by next summer? Like Thor will be regular Thor in time for Avengers 2, just like Spider-man came back in time for that movie. Comics are soap operas. Status quo is king.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:49
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Xeremides posted:Actually, the new Thor is a new character. Thor is, apparently, unworthy of Mjolnir for whatever reason, and a new character picks up the hammer and becomes Thor, because it's now a title instead of exclusively a person. Nope. "This is not She-Thor," writer Jason Aaron said in a press release. "This is not Lady Thor. This is not Thorita. This is THOR. This is the THOR of the Marvel Universe." It's a new host, just like Donald Blake was a host, but that's it. When she's got the hammer she's just straight up loving Thor.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:50
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LesterGroans posted:You realise your comics will be back to the same old poo poo by next summer? That's why this feels so disingenuous. They're not doing it to promote strong female characters, or even the playing field for minorities. It's purely business, and it's an extremely cynical move. That's why it's difficult for me to swallow Thor being an rear end in a top hat just so someone else can pick up the hammer. TheJoker138 posted:Nope. It being Thor in a woman's body would make it she-thor. He specifically states its a new character, and Thor, the guy, is incapable of lifting the hammer. I don't know that it would make sense for Thor, the man, to be unable to lift the hammer, so he's banished into a woman's body to become worthy again. For reference: quote:CBR News: Jason, the big news is that a new volume of "Thor" launches in October and its protagonist is female. I understand you have to be wary of spoilers here, but what can you tell us about the new title character? Has Thor been transformed? Or has another character received Thor's powers? Xeremides fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 21:51
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TheJoker138 posted:Nope. Nah, it's not Thor. It's just a new person getting the hammer. Thor, the actual dude that is the son of Odin, has an axe now and is deemed unworthy of lifting the hammer. That quote is misleading and he's explained it other interviews.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:55
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So are you mad that Marvel are messing with your precious characters to "push an agenda" or are you mad that they aren't actually pushing an agenda and are just cashing in temporarily? I don't even know what the gently caress you're arguing for and against anymore.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:56
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Xeremides posted:That's why this feels so disingenuous. They're not doing it to promote strong female characters, or even the playing field for minorities. It's purely business, and it's an extremely cynical move. That's why it's difficult for me to swallow Thor being an rear end in a top hat just so someone else can pick up the hammer. But isn't that just an unfortunate reality of the business? The fact that they need to introduce a strong female character in a well-established book for, like, a year before it even has the chance of selling on its own? I mean, there's no way if she's popular she won't get her own book once Dude Thor returns.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:57
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Whenever Marvel does these temporary changes (and they are temporary) it's just a fun diversion from the ongoing stories of these people that you've been reading for years. I usually really enjoy these things when they do them because they're different for a while. And it also has the fun side effect of making people who take these things way too seriously lose their poo poo and show how dumb they are.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:58
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Yeah, I honestly don't get what the beef is. Did Geoff Johns sign up for an account here?
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Jul 18, 2014 21:58
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Deadpool posted:Whenever Marvel does these temporary changes (and they are temporary) it's just a fun diversion from the ongoing stories of these people that you've been reading for years. I usually really enjoy these things when they do them because they're different for a while. And it also has the fun side effect of making people who take these things way too seriously lose their poo poo and show how dumb they are. This is how I feel about stuff like this as well. The only exception is stuff like Superior Spider-Man, but that's only because the guy writing it executed on the idea so poorly. I am pretty excited for both the new Thor and the new Captain America.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:00
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Shut the gently caress up. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 22:00
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TheJoker138 posted:So are you mad that Marvel are messing with your precious characters to "push an agenda" or are you mad that they aren't actually pushing an agenda and are just cashing in temporarily? I don't even know what the gently caress you're arguing for and against anymore. Anymore, or you never did and decided to get angry, anyway? The idea that they're co-opting an agenda, be it feminist ideology or pushing to have minority representation in comics, solely for the purpose of making money in the short-term, only to get rid of the characters or completely return to the old narrative, to me, is bullshit. If you're going to push a character, that character needs to not necessarily remain at the forefront, but not be thrown to the wayside or forgotten about when it's clear they're not making the big bucks, anymore. Ms. Marvel being Captain Marvel is a pretty good example of making a decision and sticking to it. Mar-Vell didn't come back and become Captain Marvel again, Ms. Marvel didn't just disappear into the ether. That's why I like the decision to make Falcon Captain America, even if its temporary, because he isn't going anywhere. He's his own character, and this is just supplementary, rather than his defining purpose or role. NOT SHE-THOR BUT REAL THOR? They don't seem to like having multiple Thors around, so at some point, Thor is going to be worthy again, and she'll get a knock off hammer from Odin and kind of fade away. This is more of a publicity stunt than anything else. Yeah, I'm not going to take part in an echo chamber, so you might want to just make that your avatar or something. Xeremides fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 22:01
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So I've completed my rewatch of the new Batman trilogy and my opinion remains the same: The Dark Knight is way too long. It has moments of brilliance, but it feels as it it goes on an hour too long. The entire ferry scene is overkill - the movie should have ended with the death of Rachel and the Two Face standoff. Ranked: 1. Batman Begins - by far the best 2. The Dark Knight Rises - I liked that Batman almost plays a secondary role in this film 3. The Dark Knight - the Joker is amazing, but drat is this a long movie.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:02
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So are they pushing an agenda or co-opting an agenda? Which are you mad at? You know what CBR News is, do you know who Jason Aaron is?
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Jul 18, 2014 22:05
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:So are they pushing an agenda or co-opting an agenda? Which are you mad at? You know what CBR News is, do you know who Jason Aaron is? You can co-opt an agenda and then push it as long as you need to to suit your purposes, and then jump ship when its time to stop pretending or caring and return to the original narrative. Also, I just googled she thor and that was one of the links. I don't know anything about either of them. Xeremides fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 22:08
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Stop confusing marketing material with work, or, in other words, shut the gently caress up.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:15
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Stop confusing marketing material with work, or, in other words, shut the gently caress up. Right, I'll add that to my list of things to do after you suck my dick. The line's getting long so take a number.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:16
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What are you, high fiving your little brother after that? I don't know who you're performing for.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:20
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What are you, high fiving your little brother after that? I don't know who you're performing for. Rather than attempt to elucidate your points and explain why you feel I'm wrong or you're in the right, you've instead chosen to shout me down. So, you know, what am I supposed to say to that? Yes, suh, thank you, suh? Pass. I have an opinion, you don't agree with it. Normally people just say so and move on. Here, you get told to shut the gently caress up. Sorry for having an opinion. But not really. Xeremides fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 22:22
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Who still uses "suck my dick" as an insult
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Jul 18, 2014 22:22
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Hat Thoughts posted:Who still uses "suck my dick" as an insult The kind of person who gets told to shut the gently caress up for having an opinion. I mean, are we pretending silencing differing thoughts is the adult thing to do or what? I didn't get that memo.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:25
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Xeremides posted:Rather than attempt to elucidate your points and explain why you feel I'm wrong or you're in the right, you've instead chosen to shout me down. So, you know, what am I supposed to say to that? Yes, suh, thank you, suh? Pass. I have an opinion, you don't agree with it. Normally people just say so an move on. Here, you get told to shut the gently caress up. Sorry for have an opinion. But not really. You know enough to know enough, but not enough that you can be bothered to do the tiniest amount of looking into what you're talking about. At least know what you're talking about before you shoot your mouth off.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:28
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:You know enough to know enough, but not enough that you can be bothered to do the tiniest amount of looking into what you're talking about. At least know what you're talking about before you shoot your mouth off. Holy poo poo, let's break this down Barney-style. What is it I need to be looking into? What don't I understand, that I should be understanding? If I'm wrong about something, and you have information that contradicts what I think, I'm absolutely willing to read it and look into it. As it stands, all I have are that dude's interviews about the comic. So, you know, stop being a loving child and take part in a dialogue. Goddamn. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 18, 2014 22:30
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Xeremides posted:Yes, suh, thank you, suh? Dang.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:30
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Alright, let's start with the first part of your premise: How do you know they are "tearing down" these characters?
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Jul 18, 2014 22:32
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So often the Comic Book Movie Megathread Returns Thread forgets that Goku's most powerful ability was forgiveness.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:33
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That Xeremides is a moron is by now beyond dispute, but I will say that there is something to be said about the fact that when you introduce a minority version of a popular character, they're only ever gonna be the minority version of that character. It makes them implicitly subservient. It's what iirc David Brothers has referred to as "the John Stewart problem"; John Stewart is only ever gonna be "the black Green Lantern." The inferior (to a subset of long-term fans, anyway) version of the classic original. Whereas, say, Luke Cage is always gonna be the original Luke Cage.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:33
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Alright, let's start with the first part of your premise: How do you know they are "tearing down" these characters? First, your premise is incorrect. I'm talking about a single character. I've already established I'm completely fine with Falcon being Cap. In order for Thor to be unable to wield Mjolnir, he needs to be unworthy. Reading interviews regarding what makes him unworthy, it has something to do with Frost Giants invading the Earth, and him not being up to the task. We're talking about a guy who's been unworthy, found his way, and learned from his mistakes in the past, and for the sake of the comic, we're essentially back to square one. Thor hosed up, and now he has to prove himself again. Great. That's tearing him down. That's destroying an apt complex to throw up a mall. The mall is Thor, who isn't She-Thor or Thor-Girl, but isn't really Thor-Thor, either. Which is kind of dumb. Her name better be Thor, because having Thor's powers doesn't make you Thor in much the same way throwing on Iron Man's armor doesn't make you Iron Man. But whatever, that's purely subjective. See? We're talking like people. This is good. Uncle Boogeyman posted:That Xeremides is a moron is by now beyond dispute, but I will say that there is something to be said about the fact that when you introduce a minority version of a popular character, they're only ever gonna be the minority version of that character. It makes them implicitly subservient. It's what iirc David Brothers has referred to as "the John Stewart problem"; John Stewart is only ever gonna be "the black Green Lantern." The inferior (to a subset of long-term fans, anyway) version of the classic original. Whereas, say, Luke Cage is always gonna be the original Luke Cage. Which is why Ms. Marvel works. Mar-Vell is dead, and not coming back. She isn't simply a replacement. She is Captain Marvel. Xeremides fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 22:38
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Xeremides posted:We're talking about a guy who's been unworthy, found his way, and learned from his mistakes in the past, and for the sake of the comic, we're essentially back to square one. I don't understand how you can read comics and not be used to this.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:39
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Hat Thoughts posted:Who still uses "suck my dick" as an insult  Hey Gang! GOTG comes out in a couple of weeks!
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Jul 18, 2014 22:39
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:That Xeremides is a moron is by now beyond dispute, but I will say that there is something to be said about the fact that when you introduce a minority version of a popular character, they're only ever gonna be the minority version of that character. It makes them implicitly subservient. It's what iirc David Brothers has referred to as "the John Stewart problem"; John Stewart is only ever gonna be "the black Green Lantern." The inferior (to a subset of long-term fans, anyway) version of the classic original. Whereas, say, Luke Cage is always gonna be the original Luke Cage. Kids growing up watching that cartoon know him as Green Lantern, though. It shouldn't prevent you from doing it, because you can do whatever the hell you want in a comic book. The last time they did something like this in Captain America, it was bringing back one of the only characters people whose death people consider sacrosanct (for some reason), and it's fine now. Look at that, he was just in the last Captain America movie.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:42
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Xeremides posted:So, you know, stop being a loving child Xeremides posted:Right, I'll add that to my list of things to do after you suck my dick. The line's getting long so take a number.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:43
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Xeremides posted:Which is why Ms. Marvel works. Mar-Vell is dead, and not coming back. She isn't simply a replacement. She is Captain Marvel. I'm actually of two minds about that particular case, but I'm also not sure which version of the character you're referring to. She's still just "the female Captain Marvel." Bumping her up from "Ms." to "Captain" seems like an upgrade, but it also serves to make her less distinct from the original Captain Marvel. A more ideal solution in the terms I was speaking of would be to make her her own character, distinct from a previous property (which I guess they tried with Warbird and Binary).
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Jul 18, 2014 22:44
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I hope we can all come together and agree GotG is gonna be awesome. TWO WEEKS!
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Jul 18, 2014 22:45
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Because when reacting to a thing, the reaction completely negates the thing. Being told to shut the gently caress up multiple times? That's just standard protocol. Responding in kind? What an rear end. Reaching out and attempting to create a civil discussion? Completely ignored because look at his response to incitement. Uncle Boogeyman posted:I'm actually of two minds about that particular case, but I'm also not sure which version of the character you're referring to. She's still just "the female Captain Marvel." Bumping her up from "Ms." to "Captain" seems like an upgrade, but it also serves to make her less distinct from the original Captain Marvel. I feel like he's been dead so long, people don't really even care or remember him. For a lot of people, Ms. Marvel is Captain Marvel, and that's about all there is to it.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:47
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Xeremides posted:First, your premise is incorrect. I'm talking about a single character. I've already established I'm completely fine with Falcon being Cap. In order for Thor to be unable to wield Mjolnir, he needs to be unworthy. Reading interviews regarding what makes him unworthy, it has something to do with Frost Giants invading the Earth, and him not being up to the task. We're talking about a guy who's been unworthy, found his way, and learned from his mistakes in the past, and for the sake of the comic, we're essentially back to square one. Thor hosed up, and now he has to prove himself again. Great. That's tearing him down. That's destroying an apt complex to throw up a mall. The mall is Thor, who isn't She-Thor or Thor-Girl, but isn't really Thor-Thor, either. Which is kind of dumb. Her name better be Thor, because having Thor's powers doesn't make you Thor in much the same way throwing on Iron Man's armor doesn't make you Iron Man. But whatever, that's purely subjective. Then that's even stupider, because you're taking offense to a character in the falling action of a character arc.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:47
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Then that's even stupider, because you're taking offense to a character in the falling action of a character arc. And we're back to square one. It was worth a shot.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:48
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Kids growing up watching that cartoon know him as Green Lantern, though. Yeah, the John Stewart situation is complicated. Basically, it was going great until the lovely Green Lantern movie came out and was (A) a big media blitz, (b) got back to Hal Jordan, the boring white guy version of the character, (c) cast one of Hollywood's premier boring white guy actors to play him, and (d) sucked. quote:It shouldn't prevent you from doing it, because you can do whatever the hell you want in a comic book. The last time they did something like this in Captain America, it was bringing back one of the only characters people whose death people consider sacrosanct (for some reason), and it's fine now. Look at that, he was just in the last Captain America movie. The Captain America situation isn't really what I'm talking about though, because it's replacing one white dude with another white dude. I'm specifically referring to when they introduce a minority version of a character, and that version thereafter becomes known as "the black Green Lantern" or "the black Spider-Man" or what have you. And I'm not saying you should never do it, because the Miles Morales Spider-Man stories have been great. And I'm not saying it always has to be this way, because Samuel Jackson's Nick Fury is coming very close to being the definitive Nick Fury of this generation, if he's not there already. And I certainly don't have any problem with a female Thor series; I haven't read Aaron's work on the title, but he's a great writer 9 times out of 10 and I hear his Thor work has been great. But I do think that to frame "Hey, we made Captain America black/Thor a woman" as a progressive action is *deep breath* problematic.
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Jul 18, 2014 22:49
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Xeremides posted:And we're back to square one. It was worth a shot. Sounds like you just can't wait to get your hands on the next issue to see how it all comes out in the end, Mighty Marvelite. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 22:49
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