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Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
That redrawn Middle East map is automatically poo poo because it has a Kurdistan, a Baluchistan, but no Pashtunistan. Without going into any complexities about the lines of borders that on its face automatically discounts the thing. Looks like even when someone gets to just crap all over a phoney map with their ideas of compact nation-states, the Pashtuns still get the shaft. Does the author just imagine that the redrawn Afghanistan would be basically a Pashtun state? Gotta gently caress over a lot of people for that to happen in their personal concept of Afghanistan.

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Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
Pick yourself up out of the muck and mire of transit maps and flagchat and educate yourself on the littlest border dispute in US history

The Wedge

This is a tale of how a tiny triangular piece of land became a disputed zone from colonial times all the way up to the 1920's.



If you drive through the area on 896, you'll pass by this local establishment.



Best picture I could find really.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

ekuNNN posted:

Possibly "I don't let my kids drink soda"?


This animation shows all land in the American southwest as Indian-owned land up till the 1860's. And you posted it below a map of New Spain! I think it's pretty disingenuous for a map to claim all land in the Southwest outside of eastern Texas as one undifferentiated mass of "Native American Lands" from 1784 to the 1860's. Not to mention hideously USA-centric. Also poo poo like the Mormon colonists and the Oregon settlers and all these other subtleties.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

SombreroAgnew posted:

Alternate historychat: The new flagchat? Time will tell.

I had to actively turn away from this. It's... horrifying.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Strudel Man posted:

That seems like a bizarrely strong reaction.
I mean I was looking at it and sort of mentally listing all the things that were wrong and awful about it and just had to stop and say whatever dumb alternate history map just look away.

It's the little things, like how in everybody's wacky alternate history maps the Italians still somehow get South Tyrol.

Here's an actual contribution. It's a map of all the countries that have been visited by a US president. Not sure how current it is.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
It's kind of a dumb map because it's sitting and former presidents.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
I know the HRE has been posted, but it bears repeating just how incredibly complex and convoluted the territories which comprised it were. Here is a map of Further Austria, a collective name for the states under direct control of Austria in SW Germany, after 1648. It's doubly relevant because it pertains to both stupid shaped borders chat and Swiss chat.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
Look, here is a map. It is politically loaded.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Frostwerks posted:

Good god Delaware is the most improved name.
It's accurate for a state whose animal is a special breed of fighting cock, which was basically run for most of its history by a rich family that got its start in gunpowder production, whose people contributed some harsh soldiers to the Revolution and Civil War.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Lawman 0 posted:

Thats... kinda metal? :stare:
I'd like to introduce you to one of Delaware's minuscule bodies of water, the Murderkill River.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderkill_River

edit
Drains into the Delaware Bay just north of Slaughter Beach.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

prefect posted:

Ile de France seems awfully large. And how come Sweden/Norway/Finland don't get broken up at all?
Nobody ever remembers to give Skane its deserved separation and independence.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

twoday posted:

"Kill" is a 17th century Dutch word for a stream or small river, and was commonly used in areas of North America colonized by the Dutch, and has been preserved in names like the Catskills of upstate New York, or around Staten Island:
This is true, but it's not like Hellgate, which has a completely innocuous meaning. Hellgate was a toponym that came from "Die Helle Gat", or The Beautiful Passage. The Murderkill literally means "Murderer's Creek" and it's got a horrible origin story involving murder.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

DarkCrawler posted:

Hahaha at Delaware having the least number of national parks. No poo poo, it's loving tiny!
We've got the fewest national parks, 0!

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Killer robot posted:

It's almost as shocking as an enormous state with a scattered population and few roads having a lot of airports. How awful that all those small isolated towns have little airstrips connecting them to the world.
It's funny though because it talks about Delaware having the fewest national parks,and it doesn't have any. "No National Parks" would be a way more accurate label.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
Isn't GDP a little 20th century?

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
It's in the Colorado Constitution. All county-level health departments report directly to a state Board of Tourism.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Hitch posted:

What is happening in Kentucky with cancer?!
Horses produce very high levels of background radiation. This is why human life expectancy went up after the invention of the automobile. Also there are severe dendritic deformities associated with long-term exposure to Kentucky Bluegrass.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Guavanaut posted:

All of China, all of Mongolia, and then some, at least according to some claims.



That must be some kind of record for claimed:controlled territory ratio.
That map, while complex, is basically Qing China in 1911. So you can excise all the bullshit and erase all the boundary changes if you think of events in this fashion

1. The Qing are overthrown by the great revolution of 1911
2. Sun Yat-Sen's successor, Chiang Kai-Shek, is driven off the mainland by godless Communist bandits
3. The legitimate government of China waits in the wings off the mainland on a small and insignificant island that may make a good base for reconquest

Yes, there have been a lot of boundary changes since 1911, but none of them have ever been acknowledged by the legitimate and real government of the great Republic of China.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
I thought Mauretania was pretty safe.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
With open and legal slavery a country can still be safe for tourists to visit, though. Not morally right of course.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
Are there kidnappings in Mauretania? Active terrorist bombings of civilians in the capital? Endemic crime, both organized and unorganized? Some sort of sputtering rebellion? I don't mean to harp on this, I just don't see why the Canucks rated it so badly. I know all about the awful slavery and how horrible a country it is, I'm still just not seeing the danger to your average fat Canadian with a fanny pack and a straw hat and zinc oxide on their nose. I'm very curious and would like to learn.

edit

Kassad posted:

Besides the slavery, there have been several cases of foreigners getting kidnapped and held for ransom by bandits or islamist groups.
Okay, like that.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Angiepants posted:

The end result of the Berlin Conference.


Post the best horribly stupid European-imposed colonial borders!

I'm particularly fond of the Congo Pedicle

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
It was only a month and a half later that neutral Iran would be conquered by an unprovoked Anglo-Soviet invasion, it's ruler packed off to British exile, and its territory partitioned.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
I have a question about maps that is politically-loaded, but not a map to share.

So in the 1600's/1700's Connecticut and Pennsylvania had conflicting land claims about certain territory, especially the Wyoming Valley. The Royal government sides with Connecticut in the early 1770's and this decision stands until it is overturned about 10 years later by the Continental Congress. Why then do all maps of the American Revolutionary War show that area as part of Pennsylvania? It was Connecticut until 1782.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Itious posted:

It still doesn't meet the dreams of Hungarian nationalists, but Hungary practically doubled in size thanks to the two Vienna awards which gave it large swathes of Romania and Czechoslovakia as well as land transferred to it during the war

Fun fact after the war Hungary was forced to go back to Trianon borders and everybody got all their land back. Except for that Eastern bit of Czechoslovakia. The USSR got to keep that because

1. Stalin wanted it
2. Western Allies didn't give a poo poo

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

3. Majority Ukrainian.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

He was concerned about being more Russian than the Russians though. But really, does it matter why he did it? There's really no reason why Carpatian Ruthenia should be part of Czechoslovakia, and plenty of reason for it to be part of the Ukraine.
Do you think the German annexation of the Sudetenland was right, then?

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
With my last two posts, I was trying to communicate two things, in the context of an already-begun discussion about Hungarian national frontiers.

Post #1. Traditional Western views of WW2 at their simplest trace the beginnings of the conflict to Munich and "appeasement", when Western powers allowed the Third Reich to annex Czech territory. This is seen as wrong. However, these same powers allowed the USSR to annex Czech territory after the war. This is either not paid any attention to at all or handwaved away.
Post #2. It's wrong to allow murderous dictators to decide the borders of other countries.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
You're talking about self-determination, which is actually one of the reasons behind the existence of Czechoslovakia in the first place. Yes, self-determination does open up many cans of worms but I don't think it's ever truly been applied. Post-WW1 selective application of the principle of self-determination practically resulted in the ignorance of the will of several groups of people (mostly Germans or Hungarians) because the victors of that war really loving just vindictively wanted these people to suffer, and in the attempted subordination of certain nationalities to the will of other "good" ones. Like Croats to Serbs or Slovaks to Czechs. All that really happened was that I tried to throw in a little-known historical fact into a discussion, and then got my hackles up because I believed someone was defending one of Stalin's horrible landgrabs.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
Look, that Chinese claim line is so ridiculous, it has it's own special name!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dotted_line

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Lord Hydronium posted:

During the World War II equivalent. The Confederacy annexes Kentucky and Houston, and a few other bits of land, sending the two countries into war again.
Just to be overly pedantic about a really poorly written alternate history, I'll clarify this. Confederate President Jake Hitlerston pressures US President Al Smith into allowing plebiscites on their status in the US-annexed states of Houston, Kentucky, and Sequoyah. Smith agrees on the condition that there are no further territorial demands, the black residents of those territories are allowed to vote, and any state that rejoins the Confederacy stays completely demilitarized. Houston and Kentucky vote to rejoin the CSA, Sequoyah votes to stay. Hitlerston immediately floods the reannexed Kentucky and Houston with troops and then starts to demand the chunks of Confederate Arkansas, Sonora, and Virginia that the USA annexed after their victory in the WWI analogue. Smith refuses. In the context of this, France and Germany go to war in Europe, with Imperial Russia, Austria-Hungary, the UK, the Ottoman Empire, and other allies of both sides joining in. The Confederacy invades the USA in a surprise attack on June 22, 1941.

I'm sad I just typed all that out.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
I'm sorry, it's actually "Featherston", I just wanted to make a joke to make myself feel better about knowing all that off the top of my head.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Ofaloaf posted:

In the Southern Victory series, it's remnants of the Republicans who become socialists (something about the party imploding and an elderly and defeated Abe Lincoln reading Marx), while the Democrats maintain a more conservative role-- that story's Theodore Roosevelt is a Democrat, if memory serves, while Al Smith is a Socialist Party member and the socialists control the urban machines.
Actually, in the Southern Victory series, Abe Lincoln takes the more liberal wing of the Republican party and adds it onto a tiny, crazy and insignificant Socialist party. However, the Republican party lives on as a very diminished and insignificant third party which tries to forge a way between Socialists and Democrats, mostly in the Midwest. You see, after Lincoln loses the War of Secession in 1862, no Republican is elected President until 1880, when James Blaine gets voted in, starts a war with the French, CSA, and UK. In that alternate history the Republicans had been regulated to minority party after 1862. The losing war of 1880 is their final end on the national stage. But Republicans continue to exist forever and ever and ever.

Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Jul 2, 2013

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

foobardog posted:

The real signifying factor is the different barbecue styles that tear the state apart.
I can testify to this. I once took a 4 day meandering car trip across the state, from the farthest points west all the way to almost where the state meets the sea, eating nothing but local bbq for every meal. It's crazy how much variation there is and how serious people are about it there.

edit: chopped with slaw, lunch and dinner. Cheerwine only once, in Lexington.

Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jul 9, 2013

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Lord Hydronium posted:

On that note, this seems politically loaded:

The contiguous US minus all Indian territories.


Here's a more accurate map of the US minus all Indian lands.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Phlegmish posted:

Yeah, take that you loving palefaces.

A less RATM-y map:



The territorial distribution of Serbs in Croatia before the civil war. Unsurprisingly, that's where most of the Serb-occupied territory in Croatia was during the war.
You said mean things about my post, but I love your map! I'm an amateur expert on the Yugoslav conflicts of the early 90's. Are you familiar with the RSK and what happened to it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Serbian_Krajina

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
Has anyone ever read Europe by Norman Davies? Lot of fun maps in there.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
Yeah direct contact between the Chinese and the Romans was definitely a thing. I have noticed in the Ask/Tell thread about Roman history that for some reason, a lot of people who post on the Something Awful Forums have a really really special and particular interest in learning about China-Ancient Rome contacts. I've wondered why that is for months now and I've come up completely empty as to a reason.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
I love Boston as the capital city of glorious New England. It's like a map from an alternate secession happened after the Hartford Convention world. Wherein CT pissed everybody off somehow.

Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
There were plenty of Greeks in Anatolia, and they all got kicked out in the early 20's.

A short history of the 20th century: many many people die to delineate a boundary on a map, then many many more die turning that invisible line into an actual divider of peoples.

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Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.
I can't see any scenario where the Chinese get Tuva back.

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