politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Farecoal posted:

I don't get it

From about 1805 onward the United States claimed what is today British Columbia while the British claimed modern day Washington. It was a hotly debated issue between the United States and United Kingdom, who shared joint occupancy of the territory with the Americans. For Americans, it was an opportunity to expand the United States while maintaining the delicate balance between the slave and free states. For the British, Vancouver was the nexus of fur trade. America and Britain nearly went to war in 1845 after President Polk adopted annexation of the entire territory to his platform. It is still a popular Point of Diversion in alternate history.

I am rather surprised by the map's suggestion that Russia owns everything west of the Rocky Mountains.

Abel Wingnut posted:

Is Turkey part of China there?

Turkey and China are suppose to be demilitarized minor states. The Soviets had a few crazy maps of their own. Let me see if I can find one.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Feb 3, 2013

# ¿ Feb 3, 2013 00:54

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 10:05

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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The terrifying world of 2053.

I just want to point out that the capital of the Greater United States appears to be Kingston and Bangladesh appears to have sunk beneath the waves.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2013 01:06

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Young Freud posted:

Where is this from, besides Russia?

It is from a Mikhail Yuryev's book, The Third Empire. In it he predicts that a Third Russian Empire, the first two being Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union, will arise by 2015. Following this, Russia will reclaim its Baltic territories and defeat the United States in the ensuing thermonuclear war. By 2025 Russia will own most of Europe, destroy the Vatican and force the Pope into hiding in Latin America.

Mikhail Yuryev is the former chairman of Russia's Council on Economy and Entrepreneurship and has served as Deputy Speaker of the Duma. He is an ultranationalist who believes Russia must reclaim its former glory, reassert its status as an Orthodox nation, and destroy all those who seek to oppose Russian interests. He left government a while back but still has friends within the Duma and Putin's Cabinet.

quote:

�Russia is a great state and must remain as such. This means that our existence as Russians inside Russia, not as nationals of a different country living in this country, however affluent and free it may be, is a value of the highest order.�

�Developing and consolidating the Russian nation and Orthodoxy, and fostering their interests, which in fact are one and the same thing, constitute the major goal for Russia. It has greater significance for us than the interests of other peoples, or religions in Russia.�

�Russia must retain the status of an imperial country.�

�Russia must be a common home to all Russians who live here and abroad; the conditions of our compatriots in other countries is our concern.�

�The people who allege that Western countries and monetary funds of various colors offer the only right methods for building Russia�s national economy and policies are foes.�

�Those who insist that the state has no right to introduce the basics of religion into school curricula on the basis of Orthodox teaching are foes.�

# ¿ Feb 3, 2013 17:04

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Freudian posted:

They're labelled Catholic...?

Unless I am misreading the map, they are labelled "Tribal and Christian".

# ¿ Feb 18, 2013 18:56

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Even though the United States failed to purchase Greenland from Denmark in the 1940s, America has done a lot of military operations in the region. It is really fascinating. My absolute favorite is Operation Iceworm, known better as Camp Century. It was a secret experimental "city of ice" built by the Army Corps of Engineer housing a nuclear reactor and bunkers. It was inhabited from 1960 to 1966 by a few hundred people. The Boy Scouts provided several members to serve as "Junior Scientific Aides".

# ¿ Feb 20, 2013 03:11

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Farecoal posted:

You're going to hate this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_divided_islands

I was on the island of Saint Martin during William and Kate's wedding. I spent lunch on the Dutch side, in a Chinese restaurant, decorated with British flags with a few French friends. It was quite the experience.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2013 04:22

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Amused to Death posted:

I've never been so happy to apparently be totally oppressed.

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. While America was becoming the first country in the history of the universe to have a constitution and "are freedom", they were doing the same! Of course Russia and Prussia then made sure it no longer existed a few years later.
E:
Whoops, wrong pic

One of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's biggest issues was the liberum veto which allowed any member of the 150 member Congress to veto a piece of legislation or annul any previously passed pieces of legislation. Austria and Russia were able to paralyze the nation by bribing a handful of nobles and asking them to veto everything. It was removed in 1791, far too late for Poland-Lithuania to be saved.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2013 22:43

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Ardennes posted:

The liberum veto is brought up a lot up not what established it, was that Poland-Lithuania's constitution was based around protecting a very large petty nobility from a very weak elected monarchy. However, while you were part of the nobility you had rights, if you were a peasant you might as well be living in Russia as far as the rights you got.

Poland-Lithuania was an "aristocratic" republic, and its problems largely stemmed from that fact. The rights of the nobility were priorized over everything else and the liberum veto was just one of the extensions of that. Another one is that they're army was quite small and heavily reliant on a relatively small number of heavy cavalry units. Once everyone figured out this whole mass use of musketry thing out, they were screwed.

Poland-Lithuania more or less reaped what it sowed.

Yes. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth wasn't as progressive as some make it out to be. It was a pretty depressing place to be for the average person. They did make some eventual reforms, but by that time it was because the nobility realized, "Oh poo poo. We might actually die" more than anything else.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2013 23:11

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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If I remember correctly, that map was published in a German satirical magazine in response to anti-German sentiment in Germany.

For an actual plan to divide up Germany there is always the Morgenthau Plan. Unfortunately, Wikipedia only has maps that look like they were made in MS Paint and are difficult to read.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Apr 1, 2013

# ¿ Apr 1, 2013 19:13

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Muscle Tracer posted:

What's the context of this map? Was this part of a historical plan, or is it just anti-German dreaming or what?

If I remember correctly, that map was published in a German satirical magazine in response to anti-German sentiment in Germany.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2013 22:22

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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In 1954 Leopold Kohr, Austrian political scientist and self described philosophical anarchist, published The Breakup of Nations. The book protested what he called the "cult of bigness". There is a general desire for expansion and Kohr argued that all the world's problems could be traced back to one power becoming too powerful. The division of the United States was perfect as no one state was large enough to dominate the others or cause much harm.

To illustrate his ideas, he drew an idealized version of Europe based strongly on US borders. This, in his mind, was what Europe should strive for:

He realized, however, that dividing Europe into rectangular states would clash with the �tribal� makeup of the continent�s culturally diverse peoples. He proposed the following borders:

# ¿ Apr 1, 2013 23:32

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Both during Texas' admittance to the Union and after the Civil War, there were numerous proposals to divide Texas. Although most these suggestions were not taken seriously, the following proposals were the most popular:

This was proposed during the Texan Constitutional Convention of 1866. Eastern Texas was densely populated compared to its western counterpart. The suggestion to divide the state was meant to ensure the interests of Eastern settlers who had little in common, culturally, economically and politically, with their rural counterparts. It also would have sold the largely empty basin and range region to the United States. This proposal was rejected and countered with the suggestion below.

At the same Constitutional Convention, Elisha Pease proposed that a much larger chunk of western Texas be sold to the US, but the rest of Texas stay together. The proposal received some mild support and was sent to committee. However, the committee degenerated into fights and when the delegates tried to divide Texas into North, East, South, and West Texas. Further attempts to break the territory down led to the committee's disintegration.

In 1869, Radical Republicans proposed breaking Texas down into two states: Texas and Lincoln. Southern Texas was perceived as far more Unionist and was an attractive destination for northern settlers after the Civil War. This suggestion died in committee.

In 1870, another proposal was made for parts of Texas to be made territories, to be admitted as States according to Reconstruction plans. The plan reached the House floor but was voted down. However, the plan saw a brief resurgence in popularity in 1914 in a dispute over utilities.

West Texas was constantly neglected for state-level government attention during the early part of the 1900s and its influence minimized because of gerrymandering. With the revival of the 1870 plan, West Texan politicians appeared with a different suggestion. It was popularly received by West Texan residents and received significant news coverage. However, state lawmakers were able to negotiate a settlement and the issue died around 1915. It was the last serious proposal to divide Texas.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2013 15:34

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Lycus posted:

Nearly all of Christian Europe being "enlightened" except for the Italian Peninsula, which is just "civilized", is curious.

Woodbridge was an American educator and educator. His maps were based upon personal travels and interviews with the people there. From 1820 to 1821 he lived in Italy and spent significant time comparing Italian culture to his American experiences. For an American protestant and supporter of democratic government, the amount of control the Papacy exerted over the peninsula would have shocked him. Nearly half of all territory in the Kingdom of Two Sicilies were untaxable Church lands. The Vatican Banks supported projects in Tuscany and Modena. The Index of Banned Books was a powerful list that could kill an author's reputation. It would have been extremely difficult for an American to comprehend.

His research probably was not helped by a series of widely publicized writings on the Papal State in France. There's a famous quote about the Papacy being "more interested in polishing the statues of the Saints than in repairing potholes in the streets". The situation in the Papal States was improved under Pius IX, but the Secretary of State's assassination and the Pope's complete political reversal following the Revolutions of 1848 mitigated the effect.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Apr 15, 2013

# ¿ Apr 15, 2013 03:11

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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BOWLES'S EUROPEAN GEOGRAPHICAL AMUSEMENT (or a Game of Geoography)
Designed 1795.

quote:

DIRECTIONS for PLAYING

Two or more Ladies or Gentlemen having agreed to make an elegant and instructive tour of EUROPE, are represented by Pillars and play the Game according to the following Rules:

Take the Totum and mark it on the sides from 1 to 8.

Every Traveller is to have one Pillar, and four Counters of the same colour.

Each Person is to spin the Totum once, observing who has the highest number, as that determines who is to play fist.

Begin play by spinning the Totum; if it turns up 4, place your Pillar on that number, Orleans; when it is your turn to spin again, if it comes up 6, then add 6 to 4, and travel to 10, Rochfort.

Read the description of each place you arrive at, and follow the directors there given.

When you are directed to play one or more turns, lay down so many Counters, as memorandums thereof, taking up one of them again every time you omit spinning, till they are all got back, and they spin again in your turn.

When you arrive at a station occupied by another, you are to go forward to the next vacant one.

As often as you exceed 102 you must go back to 81 Bergen and spin again in turn, till some one is so fortunate as to arrive at London (the GAME) and consequently become entitled to the applause of the company and honor of being esteemed the best instructed and speediest traveler in EUROPE.

ENTERED AT STATIONER�s HALL
1. CALAIS, the key of France, lost by the bigoted Queen Mary.
2. ROUEN, capital of Normandy, where the famous Maid of Orleans was burnt in 1430.
3. PARIS, capital of France; stay 2 turns to contemplate the New French Constitution, to view the Palace of Versailles, and site the Bastille demolished in 1789.
4. ORLEANS, capital of the Orleanois; here the traveler will be shown a brazen statue of the famous Maid of Orleans.
5. BLOIS, a pleasant town upon the Loire; here flay two turns, and learn to speak the French language in its purity.
6. RENNES, the capital of Britany
7. ST. MALO, a sea-port town of Britany; in war time a nest of privateers.
8. BRES, the principal sea-port of France; stay one turn to view its fortifications and dock yards.
9. NANTES, a sea-port town of Britany, famous for its brandy trade, and the edict of Henry IV. For establishing the Protestant religion, repealed by Lewis XIV
10. ROCHFORT, a sea-port town in Guienne.
11 BOURDEAUX, a capital of Guienne, where the traveler stays one turn to regale himself with good claret.
12. BAYONNE, a sea-port town in Gascony, famous for its hams.
13. BURGOS, the capital of Old Castile
14. MADRID, capital of Spain; here you must be imprisoned for four turns in the Inquisition, if before your arrival it should not have shared the fate of the Bastile.
15. SALAMANCA, a town in Spain, famous for its university.
16. OPORTO, a sea-port town in Portugal; noted for its wine trade
17. LISBON, capital of Portugal; stay one turn to talk with Count D�Oyeras, on the subject of Portuguese gratitude.
18. SEVILLE, capital of Andalusia, noted for oranged.
19. CADIZ, key of the Spanish commerce; land to see the king�s dock yards, but when you put to sea again beware of the bilboes.
20. GIBRALTAR, a sea-port in Andalusia, taken by the English in 1704; on account of the late gallant defense of this garrison by the brave Eliot, lord Heathfield of glorious memory, the traveler may step forward to Turin, 37.
21. MALAGA, a sea-port town in Spain, famous for its wine trade
22. GRANADA, the capital of a province of that name.
23. CARTHEGENA, a sea-port in Spain.
24. VALENCIA, the capital of a province of that name in Spain; stay one turn to examine into the state of the silk manufactures.
25. MINORCA, an island in the Mediterranean, famous for its excellent harbor, and fine honey.
26. BARCELONA, the capital of Catalonia.
27. PERPIGNAN, the capital of Rousillon, the subject to France.
28. NARBONNE, a city in Languedoc; stay one turn to view the antiquities of this place, and the royal canal.
29. MONTEPELIER, noted for falubrity of air and cheapness of provisions, will not doubt induce the traveler to flop two turns, to repair his constitution and restore finance.
30. MARSEILLES, a sea-port town of Provence, and principal of the French trade to the Levant.
31. TOULON, a sea-port town of Provence; stay one turn to see its fine harbour and the royal dock yards.
32. LYONS, capital of the Lyonnois.
33. DIJON, the capital of Burgandy, famous for its excellent wines.
34. BASIL, a town in Switzerland; stay one turn to view the library of the great Erasmus, who died here, in 1536.
35. BERN, capital of the largest canton in Switzerland.
36. GENEVA, the birth place and residence of the learned John Calvin.
37. TURIN, capital of the kingdom of Sardinia; stay two turns to visit the court, and the university.
38. MILAN, capital of the duchy of that name; famous for the church and library of St. Ambrose.
39. MANTUA, the capital of the duchy of that name; stay one turn in honour of the Mantuan poet, Baptista Mantana.
40. VENICE; the capital of the republic of that name, furnamed the rich; stay three turns to partake the diversions of the carnival, and congratulate the Doge on his nuptials with the Adriatic sea.
41. FERRARA, once a flourishing city, but greatly on the decline, since it became subject to the pope. This being so unfortunate a place, the traveler must turn back to 7. St. Malo.
42. PARMA, the capital of the ducky of that name, is possessed of the finest theatre in Italy.
43. GENOA, capital of the republic of that name; surnamed the proud, from its grand buildings; here the traveler must stay four turns, and then go back to Rouen, 3. On account of the cruelty of the Genoese to the Corsicians.
44. LEGHORN, a sea-port town of great trade in Tuscany.
45. CORSICA, an Island in the Mediterranean, celebrated for its long struggle with the Genoese, in the glorious cause of liberty.
46. FLORENCE, surnamed the fair, capital of the grand dukedom of Tuscany.
47. SIENNA, a town in Tuscany; stay two turns and learn to speak pure Italian.
48. VITERBO, a handsome town in the pope�s territories.
49. ROME, once mistress of the world, but now only capital of the Pope�s dominions; stay two turns to view its curiosities, and reflect on the abuses of papal government.
50. NAPLES, a capital of the kingdom of that name, beware of the Lava of mount Vesuvius
51. SCYLLA, a famous rock on the Calabrian shore, where the traveler being shipwrecked, loses the chance of the game.
52. MESSINA, a sea-port town in Sicily, lately destroyed by an earthquake.
53. PALERMO, capital of the island of Sicily; on your way to Syracuse, see the famous volcano, mount Etna.
54. SYRACUSE, a very ancient town, once a flourishing state in Sicily; stay one turn to see the cave of Dionysus the tyrant the burying-place of Archimedes and the fountain Arethusa.
55. MALTA, a famous island, residence of the grand matter of the kings of St. John on Jerusalem.
56. ATHENS, a town in Greece; stay two turns to view the antiquities of this once celebrated feat of learning.
57. SALONICHI, formerly Thessalonica, the capital of Macedon, a town of good trade; where the traveler will pay a visit to the English consul.
58. CONSTANTINOPLE, the capital of the Turkish empire, and the residence of grand seigniors stay one turn to see Santa Sophia.
59. ADRIANOPLE, a large city of Turkey in Europe.
60. BELGRADE, a town in Servia, subjected to the Turks.
61. BUDA, capital of lower Hungary
62. PRESBURG, capital of Hungary
63. VIENNA, capital of Austria and residence of the emperor of Germany; stay one turn to view the fortications.
64. MUNICH, capital of the electorate of Bavaria.
65. AUSBURG, an imperial city in Swabia, where the protestant princes presented their consession of faith in 1530.
66. RATISBON, a town in Bavaria, and feat of the imperial diet.
67. NUREMBERG, an imperial city in Franconia; stay one turn to see the regalia of the emperor.
68. PRAGUE, capital of Bohemia; stay one turn to see its rich cathedral and fine bridge.
69. BRESLAW, capital of Silesia.
70. CRACOW, a large city in Poland.
71. WARSAW, capital of Poland; here the traveler must stay two turns and go back to Cadiz, 19, on account of the Poles calling in the Turks, and persecuting the Dissidents.
72. DANTZICK, a sea-port of great trade in Poland.
73. KONIGBERG, capital of the Kingdom of Prussia.
74. MITTAU, capital of Courland
75. MOSCOW, second city of Russia.
76. ST PETERSBURGH, capital of Russia; stay one turn to view this city, founded by Peter the Great.
77. ARCHANGEL, a sea-port of Russia, on the White Sea.
78. STORNEA, a town in Swedish Lapland, where the French Mathematicians measured a degree of the Arctic circle.
79. STOCKHOLM, capital of Sweden.
80. FREDERICKSHALL, a town in Norway; stay one turn to lament the fate of Charles XII of Sweden, killed here by a cannon ball in 1717.
81. BERGEN, capital of Norway.
82. COPENHAGEN, capital of Denmark.
83. HAMBURG, an imperial city, famous for its extensive commerce.
84. STRELITZ; stay two turns to view the duke�s fine palace, and the pretty town of Mirow, where her Majesty Queen Charolette was born.
85. BERLIN, capital of the king of Prussia�s German dominions.
86. DRESDEN, capital of the electorate of Saxony; stay one turn to view the cabinet of curiosities, called Kunst Kammer.
87. LEIPSICK, a town in Saxony, famous for its two annual fairs; stay one turn to view the field of battle where the great Guslavus Adolphus was slain in 1632.
88. HANOVER, capital of the British king�s German dominions: this being a fortunate number, the traveler will be moved to Brussels, 99.
89. OSNABRUCK, capital of the bishopric of Westphalia; stay one turn to view the palace of his Royal Highness Frederick Duke of York, present bishop of that see.
90. CASSEL, capital of the land-graviate of Hesse: remarkable for its palace and the cascade at Weissen Stein.
91. FRANKFORT, an imperial city on the river Maine: famous for its two annual fairs.
92. MENTZ, capital of the electorate of that name, and birth place of John Guttenberg, who invented the art of printing in 1450.
93. COLOGNE, capital of the electorate of that name.
94. DUSSELDORP, town subject to the elector Palatine.
95. AMSTERDAM, capital of Holland; stay three turns to view that stadthouse, the arsenal, and the sardom.
96. HAGUE, the finest village in the world, and feat of the States General; stay one turn to see Scheveling and the house in the wood.
97. ROTTERDAM, the second city in Holland. The traveler must go back to Naples, 50 least his modals be corrupted by the smugglers of this place.
98. ANTWERP, a fine city in the Austrian Netherlands.
99. BRUSSELS, capital of the Austrian Netherlands; stay one turn to see Charles�s curious cabinet.
100. LISLE, capital of French Flanders.
101. OSTEND, a sea-port town in Austrian Flanders; from hence a packet boat to Dover.
102. LONDON, capital of England, THE GAME.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Apr 21, 2013

# ¿ Apr 21, 2013 13:57

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Kurtofan posted:

43. GENOA, capital of the republic of that name; surnamed the proud, from its grand buildings; here the traveler must stay four turns, and then go back to Rouen, 3. On account of the cruelty of the Genoese to the Corsicians.

45. CORSICA, an Island in the Mediterranean, celebrated for its long struggle with the Genoese, in the glorious cause of liberty.

Genoa

The glowing compliments toward Corsica might be because the island's government petitioned England for annexation about a year after the map was made.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2013 17:35

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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In that vein, throughout the 1870s King Victor Emmanuel II offered Pope Pius Lateran City as a consolation prize for losing Rome. The Pope repeatedly reject the offer because he saw himself as the sole legitimate ruler of Rome. Had Pius accepted the offer, however, Vatican City would be nearly twice its current size.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2013 12:33

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Purno posted:

On the same topic, I made this:

Interesting to see the US and UK rank behind such progressive nations as Iraq, Afghanistan and Sudan.

Iraq, Afghanistan and Sudan have quotas that force the government to allow women into parliament. In Afghanistan, at least sixty-eight members of the lower house must be women. In Iraq and Sudan, at least a quarter of parliament must be female. There are similar quotas for ethnic and religious minorities.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2013 12:13

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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The Narrator posted:

What's the context of this ad? I can only assume it's an ad for Mexican audiences, but I'm still unsure what it's meant to be insinuating? That if the Mexicans had drunk Absolut, Manifest Destiny wouldn't have worked and the Mexican concession wouldn't have happened?

For a while Absolut Vodka ran an ad campaign depicting perfect worlds. The advertisement above was used in Mexico until it made its way north. A few Americans became very annoyed by the implication that the US never should have conquered California and Absolut had to release an apology statement a few days later.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2013 03:43

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Kainser posted:

From Pole to shining Pole

This is a really annoying cliche in alternate history.

Decades of Darkness

# ¿ Jun 30, 2013 02:36

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Kainser posted:

That was actually exactly what I was thinking of, the one single good piece of alternate history.

The problem with most alternate history is that the writers are more focused on making the world as different as possible rather than writing a realistic world or making useful commentary on modern events. The easiest way to get attention is by changing borders so alternate history is often associated with maps. The alternatehistory.com community is particularly bad in this regard. The easiest way to get yourself noticed is be moderately talented in Photoshop. You could be copying literal encyclopedia entries but as long as you have regular illustrations, people will follow you.

I do have a few favorite pieces of internet alternate history, though:

Fear, Loathing and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72: Louisiana Governor John Julian McKeithen decides to stand for the Democratic nomination for the 1972 Election. McGovern becomes furious about being overlooked and decides to run as an independent under a 'Peace' platform. The result is an electoral college split and the House of Representatives is forced to choose the President. Sprio Agnew does beautiful, wonderful things.

A World of Laughter, A World of Tears

Eisenhower drops from the 1952 Republican Primary after a minor heart attack. The incident does not threaten his life but forces Eisenhower to come to terms with his health. He drops from the race and the GOP is thrown into turmoil. Hoping to throw the Democrats off-guard, the Republicans nominate Walt Disney who proceeds to win by a large margin. His term goes as well as you might expect.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jun 30, 2013

# ¿ Jun 30, 2013 22:10

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

As you command:

# ¿ Jul 1, 2013 01:37

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Social Mobility in the United States - Study conducted by Harvard University and California Berkeley

http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/

quote:

Enabling children to rise out of poverty is a primary goal of policies such as the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), the Child Tax Credit, and other tax expenditures. Building on our previous research on the EITC, we study the impact of tax expenditures on intergenerational mobility. We find substantial variation in the economic outcomes of children from poor families across areas of the United States. These differences are modestly correlated with variation in tax expenditure policies across areas, but much variation in children's success across areas remains to be explained.

EDIT: Son of a bitch.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2013 21:28

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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Peanut President posted:

I'm wondering in what part of america that there are people mad about the Canal Zone?

There is a non-marginal portion of the country that thinks giving up the Panama Canal Zone was a mistake and made the United States look weak to the world community. My father believed that the Torrijos�Carter Treaties were some of the worst mistakes Carter made during his administration.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Sep 8, 2013

# ¿ Sep 8, 2013 21:03

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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DrSunshine posted:

Fantastical Alt-history maps okay? If so, let me present Greater California.

I think this map is from Union and Liberty at alternatehistory.com. The timeline is currently in the middle of its World War I parallel.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 13:24

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
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DerLeo posted:

What in hell happened to Europe

I haven't read the timeline in a while, but from what I remember the point of divergence is Jackson being assassinated by Richard Lawrence. If I remember correctly, Austria is invaded simultaneously by Prussia and Italy over minor land holdings. France jumps in to assert its hegemony and the Hapsburg rule completely collapses. The powers of Europe are left holding a bag of poo poo and try to settle various land disputes in a Conference of Europe. (It fails.)

Better map of North America in the timeline:

The World in a New Century, Section II: Ibero North America posted:

California:
The Republic of California lies west of the Rio Bravo and south of the Oregon Country. A fairly wealthy state, California has received much of its progress from the gold and silver found in the Sierra Nevada and other mountain ranges of the country. Because of this, large cities like San Diego, San Francisco, and the capital at Monterey have arisen along the coast. The cities around San Francisco Bay have grown to become some of the largest in California. The city of San Francisco itself has become the major port and commercial center in the country, and is often known as the "Valparaiso of North America". In the interior, the majority of the population of California lives in the fertile San Joaquin Valley or along the Sacramento River. However, there are some settlements in the far interior, particularly those of the Mormons around the Great Salt Lake.

California is one of the most diverse countries in all of the Americas. Like Cuba in the United States, the people are mainly Ibero and mestizo. California, however, has been a destination for much of the immigration of Asians to North America. In fact, the cities in California have the largest population of Mongolians in the entire continent. These immigrants primarily come from the Philippines and China, and are concentrated in the coastal cities. Many Mongolians also inhabit the portion of the Hawaiian archipelago that is owned by California. Further east, the Mormons are the dominant people and their church remains the dominant religion there. The more remote desert regions of the country are populated by Indian tribes and do not receive much attention from the local authorities so stick to their barbarous ways.

While California claims to be a republic, the actual practice of the government is rather bad. The people are given some representation, but often the President will go against the wishes of the people with few consequences. The Mormons have recently been barred from representation within the Californian Senate. The country has also been subject to many coups in the past decades as generals or political opponents of the ruling president can easily gather enough support to oust whoever is in power.

Mexican States:
South of California and the state of Tejas are several small countries. These countries used to be united as the country of Mexico. In the 1830s, the United States fought a war with Mexico to free the Republic of Texas, which later joined the United States. Mexico suffered further political instability and collapsed into a number of countries in the late 1850s. Since then, the countries have been led by warlords though they claim to be republics. This is partially due to the ignorance of the people after breeding with the local Indians for centuries, and partly due to the ease at which such governments have been overthrown.

Of the Mexican states, Veracruz, Chihuahua, and Rio Bravo are the most important to the United States. Veracruz is a thriving port city-state and is the main point of entry and exit for goods going between the United States and Mexico. Recently, the United States has been getting more involved in the Mexican states. Just in the last decade, the United States freed Chihuahua from Rio Bravo. The other countries in the region are Durango, Granidalgo, Tlaxcala, the Mexican Republic, Queretaro, and Jalisco. Tlaxcala is of particular interest because it is governed by a splinter group from the Catholic Church known as the Anti-Papacy.

Mesoamerican Union:
The Mesoamerican Union is a collection of formerly independent countries that formed a unified government only in the last two decades. The component republics of the Mesoamerican Union are Oaxaca, Guatemala, Yucatan, Honduras, Salvador, and Nicaragua. Each republic has its own government but is subservient to the federal Mesoamerican government, much like our own states. The federal government of Mesoamerica contains a unicameral legislature and is led by a president elected by the legislature. The Mesoamerican legislature is peculiar in that it not only includes seats for each constituent republic, but also for certain Indian tribes. No other republican government in the world has been so accommodating to the uncivilized races in its country.

The Mesoamerican Union is a very important trading partner to the United States. From here, we import many agricultural goods that are unable to be produced in the United States except perhaps in Cuba. The principal goods that the United States imports from Mesoamerica are rubber, sugar, and fruit. The United Fruit Company has many land holdings in Mesoamerica and thanks to the support of the Mesoamerican government, tariffs have been reduced between our two nations and have allowed for American companies to prosper in the region.

There is one other nation in the region that has a significant importance to the United States. This is the small nation of Costa Rica, which lies south of Mesoamerica. While Costa Rica is small, its significance lies in its location as a strategic transportation route between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. Here is where the plans have been drawn up for a canal to connect the two oceans. The canal is planned to be dug through the northern part of Costa Rica, from the Atlantic Ocean along the San Juan River up to Lake Cocibolca, then through the narrow isthmus on the other side of the lake to connect with the Pacific. The canal has the potential to greatly influence American trade and interests in the Pacific and throughout Ibero-America.

Aside from these independent nations, the colony of British Honduras is the last possession of the Europeans in Central America.

Caribbean:
Unlike the other areas discussed in this section, most of the Caribbean has failed to become independent of Europe and the majority of the islands remain colonies. The reason for this are geographical and cultural. The geographical reason is that the warm tropical climate causes people to become lazy as food and agriculture is so easily accessible in the islands of the Caribbean, the people are not compelled to work hard in order to better themselves. The cultural reason is that the abundance of uncivilized negroes and Indians as well as half breeds has prevented the islands from recognizing the benefits of independence.

The only independent nation in the Caribbean thus far is Haiti on the island of Hispanola. Haiti achieved its independence from the French almost a century ago after the negro slaves overthrew their French masters. Sixty years prior to the abolition of slavery in the United States, Haiti became the only country in the Americas to be led by negroes. However, the Haitians remained savages for the most part and their government has become very bad. Haiti is led by a brutal emperor who does not allow his people a voice in the affairs of government and punishes them for objecting to his rule.

The rest of the Caribbean is mostly governed by European colonies, with the exception being our own state of Cuba. These colonies produce much of the world's sugar and the sugar planters on the islands have become very rich. Great Britain has several colonies near Cuba such as the Bahamian Islands and the isle of Jamaica. France, Britain, and the Netherlands also possess a number of islands in the Lesser Antilles in the eastern Caribbean. Between Haiti and the Lesser Antilles, Spain and Denmark also have minor colonies. After selling Cuba to the United States in 1848, the only Spanish possession in the Caribbean is now Porto Rico. The Danes also retain a small number of islands east of Porto Rico. All of the European colonies are mostly populated by negroes or Indians, and it will be a while before they can become civilized enough before they can be trusted to govern themselves.

EDIT:

Peanut President posted:

Congo Territory? I guess that's a replacement for Liberia?

Essentially. I think they buy it off the Belgians.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 13:50

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Oh God, those borders.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 16:43

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Nevermind. I am stupid.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2013 01:10

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Here is a House Map for last night's vote to reopen the US government and avoid a default.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2013 15:04

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

I like how the state of Ohio does not actually contain the Ohio River.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2013 23:08

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Is there a reason why Google has street view for all of Switzerland, except for Zurich?

# ¿ Nov 23, 2013 02:07

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Skeleton Jelly posted:

What are you talking about? Z�rich is covered and it's clearly to the north of that empty blob. The areas not covered in Switzerland are not covered because there's no point in covering bumfuck nowhere mountain regions.

It looks like I misread the map. Sorry.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2013 03:13

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

DarkCrawler posted:

So...the Catholic Church is pretty racist, apparently.

I don't think there is malice behind the discrepancy. Europe's over representation is more symptomatic of the Church's difficulty to change. In 1913, over 70% of the world's Catholic population lived in Europe. There is also over 1000 years of history behind certain offices. Berlin may not currently have a large Catholic population but they have always had a cardinal-elector so it is expected that when the current Cardinal dies, a new one will be appointed. These regions would be extremely offended if they were ignored in favor of a younger diocese.

Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI did try to make the number of Cardinals a little more representative of the Church population. I expect Francis to do the same.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2013 17:08

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

The concept of dividing Texas originated in the Joint Resolution for Annexing Texas to the United States, signed in 1 March 1845. Under Article II, Texas may be divided into "new States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution." The provision was included to calm fears that Texas would undo the fragile Missouri Compromise. If either the Free and Slave states threatened to overpower the other, Texas could always be divided until balance was reached again.

Article IV Section 3 of The United States Constitution expressly prohibits Texas, or any other state, from dividing up and forming smaller states without Congressional approval. Modern Texas divisionists argue that Congress already granted Texas approval by ratifying the Texas Annexation Treaty and that the state would not need to petition Congress if it wanted to divide itself in the future. As unlikely as it is that Texas would divide itself, it is an interesting possibility to imagine. In addition to the maps above, there were a few pre-21st century proposals.

QuoProQuid posted:

Both during Texas' admittance to the Union and after the Civil War there were numerous proposals to divide Texas. Although most these suggestions were not taken seriously, the following proposals were the most popular:

This map was proposed during the Texan Constitutional Convention of 1866. Eastern Texas was densely populated compared to its western counterpart. The suggestion to divide the state was meant to ensure the interests of Eastern settlers who had little in common culturally, economically and politically with their rural counterparts. It also would have sold the largely empty basin and range region to the United States. This proposal was rejected and countered with the suggestion below.

At the same Constitutional Convention, Elisha Pease proposed that a much larger chunk of western Texas be sold to the federal government, but the rest of Texas remain a united state. The proposal received some mild support and was sent to committee. However, the committee degenerated into fights and when the delegates tried to divide Texas into North, East, South, and West Texas. Further attempts to break the territory down led to the committee's disintegration.

In 1869, Radical Republicans proposed breaking Texas down into two states: Texas and Lincoln. Southern Texas was perceived as far more Unionist and was an attractive destination for northern settlers after the Civil War. This suggestion died in committee.

In 1870, another proposal was made for parts of Texas to be made territories and later admitted as States according to Reconstruction plans. The plan reached the House floor but was voted down by southern Republicans. The plan saw a brief resurgence in popularity in 1914 in a dispute over utilities.

West Texas was constantly neglected for state-level government attention during the early part of the 1900s and its influence minimized because of gerrymandering. After the revival of the 1870 plan, West Texan politicians proposed different solution. It was popularly received by West Texan residents and received significant national coverage. However, state lawmakers negotiated a settlement and the issue died around 1915. It was the last serious proposal to divide Texas.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 21, 2013

# ¿ Dec 21, 2013 16:59

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Nessus posted:

Is this... Greater Ohio?

Not even close. The Framers of the 1802 Ohio Constitution thought that Congress was granting them the Detroit River as well as exclusive access to Lake Erie. It was one of the many issues that complicated Michigan's admission to the Union and caused the Toledo War.

Greater Ohio would probably look something like:

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 3, 2014

# ¿ May 3, 2014 21:08

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Ofaloaf posted:

My stomach actually churned at the sight of that map. I feel ill.

e: Wait a minute, Hub City? Fawcett City? Is this Ohio in the DC universe?

I just grabbed the first map I saw on Google and edited accordingly. Thought it was just a generic map of the Great Lakes region.

The Enabling Act of 1802 drew Ohio's border at the southern most point of Lake Michigan, which was thought at the time to be parallel with Lake St. Clare. When the error was discovered, the Ohio government tried to revise their borders to encompass the Maumee River Watershed, but the matter died in committee.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 01:22 on May 4, 2014

# ¿ May 4, 2014 01:16

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Pakled posted:

Uh, so, the Catholic Church wants to keep the Bible out of public schools?

Whereas some Protestants like to criticize Catholicism for worshiping the Popes and Saints, some Catholics accuse protestant groups of Biblical idolatry. Scripture is not ultimate reality but a sign that points to ultimate reality. It is not infallible and should not be studied at the exclusion of other aspects of the faith, like Tradition. By elevating the Bible to an unquestionable status, Protestants are unintentionally replacing God with the Bible.

There are some Catholic scholars that go further by saying that the Bible is not even necessary to be Christian. The early Christian communities obviously had no scripture. Until the printing press the Bible was not accessible to anyone except the most educated and the most wealthy so Christian communities relied on oral tradition to keep the faith.

Provinces and diocese of the Catholic Church in the United States. Each colour represents an ecclesiastic province, each shape is a diocese.

Diocese designated by the Church to be "Mission Diocese" requiring financial or institutional aid. These are generally communities where there is severe economic hardship or limited institutional presence (i.e. there are no ordained leaders, Catholic schools or religious buildings).

EDIT: Just noticed how the diocese borders for Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia line up with that ancient shoreline that appears so frequently on political maps.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jun 10, 2014

# ¿ Jun 10, 2014 15:57

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

I went to the Catholic Extension website to double check. Here's how a "Mission Diocese" is defined in the institution's own words:

FAQ and Policies posted:

A mission diocese is a place where the Catholic Church is emerging, and even thriving, but the financial resources are scarce. A mission diocese is often limited in terms of infrastructure, Catholic educational institutions, professional opportunities, and philanthropic opportunities.

In a Catholic Extension supported mission diocese, often one or more of the following conditions exist:

There are many Catholics, but little institutional Catholic presence (i.e. ordained leaders, Catholic schools and church buildings).

There is a rapidly growing Catholic population, but limited financial means to support this growth.

Catholics are spread throughout great geographic distances, making pastoral outreach difficult.

Catholics are located in areas facing economic hardships.

Catholics represent the religious minority in their communities.

So some areas are designated as mission communities just because they are extremely rural. I was hoping there would be a specific breakdown on why certain areas were selected but it doesn't look like they publish that information.

My grandparents used to have a calendar with information on the Mission Diocese and it only ever discussed economic hardship or limited institutional presence as factors determining which areas were chosen.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2014 18:38

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

The best U.S. flag is Ohio:

The best Coat of Arms is from Zheleznogorsk, Russia:

Here's a 1984 proposed redesign of Washington D.C. by Leon Krier. The plan would have involved flooding the National Mall as well as several Washington's major roads to turn it into an American Venice.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jun 10, 2014

# ¿ Jun 10, 2014 23:47

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Does the Swiss Guard have a band?

Yes, the Swiss Guard does have a band. They hold a concert every Christmas and released an album in 2012.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 13:10

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# ¿ May 8, 2024 10:05

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

DrSunshine posted:

What is a "good" country, then? Is there a single country in the world that passes the D&D test for Goodness?

As your question stands now, the only country that would fit Debate and Discussion's standards is probably the Most Serene Republic of San Marino. It carried out its last execution in 1468 and abolished the death penalty in 1848. Since establishment, it has only ever used its military in self-defense. Although a tax haven, San Marino has one of the most transparent banking systems among the microstates. The rapid turnover rate for leaders makes political corruption almost non-existent.

At worst, you could criticize it for having no formal asylum policy.

If you want to discuss whether any bigger countries can be "good," you will need to define your question a little better. Are we talking good in context of citizens, the world community, the environment? Domestic? International? Macro-level? Micro? Is good defined in relation to other states?

Back to maps: Here's a cartogram of the world. Let's all laugh at Russia.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2014 23:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

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