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The 'treating the narrative as something you found rather than something you assembled' does seem to come up here and there, I know Stephen King is a big advocate of it in his writing books. After Tolkien's time, of course (if obviously aware of the former)
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Mar 8, 2024 18:02
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It's pretty incredible how well he captures what he is going for. Like as a kid, the Song of Earendil was gently caress, gently caress, another wall of text delaying me from the adventure. But now being old and having read the Silmarillion, I just wish I could sit there and listen to Bilbo in Imladris' fire hall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdFbFtCNXCY
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Mar 8, 2024 18:08
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Arc Hammer posted:I like when they first get to Rivendell and Bilbo and the Elves keep sassing each other over his poetry. At this point I want to try to identify which of the elves are meant to represent which of the Inklings
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Mar 8, 2024 18:18
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soviet elsa posted:It's pretty incredible how well he captures what he is going for. All marvelling at how many five-dollar words this little dude can cram into a poem about the boss's dad Turn to the other elf next to you and whisper something like "holy poo poo is he getting us back for that thing where we rhymed valley with 'tra-la-la-lally'?"
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Mar 8, 2024 20:43
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keep punching joe posted:The Lord of the Rings isnt a work of fiction however, it is merely a translation into English of the Westron adaptation of the Red Book of Westmarch.
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Mar 8, 2024 22:07
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You can include poetry when it’s banger and Tolkiens poetry is banger. Those are the rules
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Mar 8, 2024 22:17
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Re reading the Hobbit and lotr directly after the Silmarillion has me wondering if Tulkas wants to stomp Sauron more than he did Morgoth or less??
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Mar 8, 2024 23:42
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skasion posted:There are no rules in fiction lol. Just get a pen and paper and start lying.
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Mar 9, 2024 03:19
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Tom Smykowski posted:Re reading the Hobbit and lotr directly after the Silmarillion has me wondering if Tulkas wants to stomp Sauron more than he did Morgoth or less?? Tulkas' vibes definitely give me the impression he'd be very angry at a divine mandate that he is not allowed to run over and punch Sauron in the face.
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Mar 9, 2024 10:19
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Tom Smykowski posted:Re reading the Hobbit and lotr directly after the Silmarillion has me wondering if Tulkas wants to stomp Sauron more than he did Morgoth or less?? I feel like it'd be a less interesting fight for him? He already fought the end game Superboss, and he does love a challenge. The amount of runes he'd get from Sauron might feel a bit pitiful in comparison
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Mar 9, 2024 12:21
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Just noogieing Sauron and going "stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself" while rings pop out of his head with a jingling sound like in Sonic
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Mar 9, 2024 12:44
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Tulkas has been sleeping for 3 ages
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Mar 9, 2024 15:33
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And he's been snoring like the Three Stooges the entire time.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:00
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zoux posted:Tulkas has been sleeping for 3 ages Tulkas owns Something Awful??
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Mar 11, 2024 18:50
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Nessus posted:The 'treating the narrative as something you found rather than something you assembled' does seem to come up here and there, I know Stephen King is a big advocate of it in his writing books. After Tolkien's time, of course (if obviously aware of the former) I enjoy that Bram Stoker's Dracula is basically a found-footage horror story. I don't recall any meta-narrative about how the book found its way to the reader, whether Stoker pretended he didn't write the thing, but you're reading assembled letters and news clippings and then halfway through the characters say "hey, we should make a Book about all this stuff to keep it straight" and even start writing their portions with awareness that it's being archived.
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Mar 11, 2024 19:17
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I like how Gildor and the other elves don't say poo poo when they run into Frodo and crew right after a Black Rider was trying to sniff them out. No hint of "oh gently caress we know the entire history of this one", just like "hmm come with us for a long rear end walk"
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Mar 12, 2024 16:36
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Tom Smykowski posted:I like how Gildor and the other elves don't say poo poo when they run into Frodo and crew right after a Black Rider was trying to sniff them out. They're wise enough to know that if they did tell Frodo what was chasing him he'd piss his pants and fling the ring into a river.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:49
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Tom Smykowski posted:I like how Gildor and the other elves don't say poo poo when they run into Frodo and crew right after a Black Rider was trying to sniff them out. SEP, baby! That's for those nerds in Rivendell to figure out, they're off to catch the Cirdan Express
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Mar 12, 2024 17:49
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Ginette Reno posted:They're wise enough to know that if they did tell Frodo what was chasing him he'd piss his pants and fling the ring into a river. That wouldn't be wise, that would be foolish because Frodo would not do that. He knows the Ringwraiths exist. What I think the elves are afraid of is that Frodo's fear might give the Ringwraiths additional power. Of course their blind fear is probably more dangerous, but Gildor doesn't know that Frodo has the Ring. If he did, he would probably realize that Frodo is already expecting the worst.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:03
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Tbf Gildor also has a vibe of "I feel like if I say anything I'm gonna gently caress this up in a way I can't even foresee"
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Mar 13, 2024 04:34
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sweet geek swag posted:That wouldn't be wise, that would be foolish because Frodo would not do that. He knows the Ringwraiths exist. What I think the elves are afraid of is that Frodo's fear might give the Ringwraiths additional power. Of course their blind fear is probably more dangerous, but Gildor doesn't know that Frodo has the Ring. If he did, he would probably realize that Frodo is already expecting the worst. Frodo doesn't really remember much about the ring wraiths iirc. Gandalf talks about them when he's briefing Frodo about the ring but by the time Frodo leaves on his quest he doesn't know what's chasing him. I think Gildor is right to not make his fear even worse by saying oh yeah Frodo you're getting chased by undead wraiths who if they catch you are going to turn you into one of them and then torment you for eternity for daring to take Sauron's ring. By the time Frodo leaves Rivendell he's aware of the stakes of the quest but he's hardened his heart to do what needs to be done. I don't think he's quite at that point yet when he leaves Bag End. He just wants to get the ring to Rivendell and isn't sure yet that he has to go further than that.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:36
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Ginette Reno posted:Frodo doesn't really remember much about the ring wraiths iirc. Gandalf talks about them when he's briefing Frodo about the ring but by the time Frodo leaves on his quest he doesn't know what's chasing him. I think Gildor is right to not make his fear even worse by saying oh yeah Frodo you're getting chased by undead wraiths who if they catch you are going to turn you into one of them and then torment you for eternity for daring to take Sauron's ring. Except that Aragorn immediately tells Frodo the identities of the Black Riders when they meet. Of course, Aragorn most likely knows hobbits better than Gildor does, but he also knows that Frodo has the Ring. That being said, neither of them does tell Frodo their full power and danger, but Gildor is definitely being a bit overcautious.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:44
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How much of that is the usual Tolkien author weirdness? Like, Gildor is evasive and short on details because JRRT himself wasn't yet sure of what the wraiths could do?
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Mar 13, 2024 04:47
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sweet geek swag posted:That wouldn't be wise, that would be foolish because Frodo would not do that. He knows the Ringwraiths exist. What I think the elves are afraid of is that Frodo's fear might give the Ringwraiths additional power. Of course their blind fear is probably more dangerous, but Gildor doesn't know that Frodo has the Ring. If he did, he would probably realize that Frodo is already expecting the worst. He also trusts Gandalf's judgement, and figures that if the guy wanted Frodo to know he'd have told him. Since Frodo doesn't know what a Black Rider is, Gandalf must think that he'd be better off not knowing. He's willing to help Frodo but not to the extent of possibly messing up a Wizard's plans. He all but says as much, in the proverbial "do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards" line.
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Mar 13, 2024 04:57
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Tree Bucket posted:How much of that is the usual Tolkien author weirdness? Like, Gildor is evasive and short on details because JRRT himself wasn't yet sure of what the wraiths could do? So I looked this up in Return of the Shadow, and in the original version Gildor knows that Bingo(Frodo) has the ring. But also importantly Bingo does not know who the Ringwraiths are at all, and it seems that it was almost immediately after this scene was written that Tolkien began working on his extended exposition sequence from 'Shadows of the Past.' It's an entirely different context originally, though the text is remarkably similar.
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Mar 13, 2024 05:07
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Aragorn explaining what the hell is going on is important both for gaining the Hobbits' trust by speaking candidly, and for getting them to understand how little room for error they have now that Gandalf is missing.
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Mar 13, 2024 09:07
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sweet geek swag posted:So I looked this up in Return of the Shadow, and in the original version Gildor knows that Bingo(Frodo) has the ring. But also importantly Bingo does not know who the Ringwraiths are at all, and it seems that it was almost immediately after this scene was written that Tolkien began working on his extended exposition sequence from 'Shadows of the Past.' It's an entirely different context originally, though the text is remarkably similar. Yeah, and in the original drafts Gildor basically lore-dumps on Bingo/Frodo for a page's worth of weird expansions on destiny and providence and the Baggins/Took halves of his personality which he apparently knows all about. That all got moved earlier into Gandalf's fireside chat, and Gildor's scene becomes a lot more circumscribed.
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Mar 13, 2024 10:34
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YaketySass posted:Aragorn explaining what the hell is going on is important both for gaining the Hobbits' trust by speaking candidly, and for getting them to understand how little room for error they have now that Gandalf is missing. Ya that and ofc frodo's near death/shade experience are what influence him greatly to choose to be the ring bearer at the council of elrond.
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Mar 13, 2024 11:15
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Thank god he didn't stick with "Bingo"
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Mar 13, 2024 14:09
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zoux posted:Thank god he didn't stick with "Bingo" Parralel universe where Strider is a hobbit with wooden feet (and also called Trotter).
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Mar 13, 2024 14:18
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keep punching joe posted:Parralel universe where Strider is a hobbit with wooden feet (and also called Trotter). And Sauron is a cat.
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Mar 13, 2024 14:44
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Deformed Church posted:And Sauron is a cat. A++ would read.
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Mar 13, 2024 14:56
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zoux posted:Thank god he didn't stick with "Bingo" You think that’s bad…I’m quite sure that if the wizard in The Hobbit had gone to press as “Bladorthin”, no one nowadays would ever have heard of Tolkien
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Mar 13, 2024 15:10
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What if he had managed to get someone to publish the Silmarillion in the 40s, along with or possibly before LotR Would he be even more respected, or would he be forgotten as some Henry Darger type
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Mar 13, 2024 15:12
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also Sauron was never a cat. The Book of Lost Tales precursor to Sauron is Tû/Tûvo from Gilfanon’s Tale, not Tevildo. Tevildo’s role in Tale of Tinuviel was later taken (in Lay of Leithian) by Thû/Sauron, but this corresponds with a shift in emphasis from “cats vs dogs” to “wolves vs dogs”
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Mar 13, 2024 15:15
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skasion posted:You think that’s bad…I’m quite sure that if the wizard in The Hobbit had gone to press as “Bladorthin”, no one nowadays would ever have heard of Tolkien Bladorthin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not
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Mar 13, 2024 15:24
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He wouldn't go to the East because they called him Blandalf.
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Mar 13, 2024 15:33
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zoux posted:He wouldn't go to the East because they called him Blandalf. He tried once but he was yet unseasoned
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Mar 13, 2024 15:36
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They named him "Ill-news" and he went back crying.
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Mar 13, 2024 15:37
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Look he really loved hobbits ok
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Mar 13, 2024 15:38
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