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monkeyharness posted:I originally read The Hobbit when I was eight, and the Lord of the Rings when I was about ten. I got the softcover Silmarillion while on a family vacation when I was about twelve, and although it was difficult to keep up with some of what was going on, I read it, and then read it again a year or so later. It's probably my favorite of the Tolkien books in spite of what you mention above. For whatever reason, Lost Tales has always been more difficult for me to try and get through, and I have yet to finish the first book. 'sup fellow Silmarillion fan. There's something so grand and sweeping about the Silmarillion that I love, even more than the Lord of the Rings. Maybe it's because it's  as all hell, maybe it's because Morgoth is a kickass villain, maybe it's because it makes you understand why Sauron might fear somebody like Galadriel, who is probably the oldest thing on Middle Earth before she leaves.For those who don't know, Feanor, the creator of the Silmarils which are then stolen by Morgoth, vows to seek vengeance without the help of the gods. Most of his fellow tribesmen follow suit, including the youngest to make the vow, Galadriel.
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Feb 16, 2013 10:33
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I wish it'd been Beren and Luthien's story instead. That one is as hell.
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Mar 25, 2013 03:40
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He has recurring pains for a few reasons - one is the morgul blade, one is when the ring was destroyed, and I think one is for Shelob. I could be wrong about Shelob.
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Mar 29, 2013 01:55
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Hiro Protagonist posted:So, I've seen the movies, and I've read the Hobbit, but I've never read the Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion. However, because I'm already somewhat familiar with Lord of the Rings through of the movies, I decided I'd read the Silmarillion first, because while I've heard a bit about some of the stories(via references and ultra-Tolkien-fan friends), I know a lot less, and I figure reading the Silmarillion will help me get the most out of Lord of the Rings. Also, I'm weird and love religious and mythology-based texts. Is there any advice or things I should know ahead of time? First off, you're making a mistake. Second off, I wish I had made that mistake. Third off, good luck.
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Nov 9, 2013 06:19
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Based on my reading, I think there's good evidence that Orcs are so murder-happy because they have literal Lords of Evil in their head; the lines from Return of the King describing the fall of Sauron as lifting his will from his Orcs and captains. I have no doubt that the Balrog in Moria held his goblins under sway, and that Saruman held some power over the Uruk-Hai. I also think this accounts for inter-Orc conflict: Usually it's Orcs of different allegiences, like the fight after Frodo gets captured is between Morgul-orcs and Orcs of Barad-Dur. Maybe on some level the Witch-King of Angmar hates Sauron? Or, perhaps, his death drove his Orcs crazier than normal. So my theory is that Morgoth, in his desire for control, made Orcs very susceptible to mental domination, even at large distances. After Sauron's defeat, perhaps, the Orcs of Mordor could make and keep treaties of other races, even if they would never be friendly.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:03
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I'd read her story. I love what little we get of her character: In her youth, brash and ambitious, then later desiring to rule in her own right, then finally one of the White Council.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:35
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Yeah, the closest you'll come to APCs are siege towers. Numenor probably had pretty sweet ships though, maybe mythril-clad if they were feeling particularly gratuitously wealthy, or it was a King's Flagship. Most of what we know of Numenor comes from the appendices and the Silmarillion. Does anyone else like the theory that the Arkenstone was related to the Silmarils somehow? I always pegged it as a lesser work that Feanor chucked into a handy volcanic chasm because he didn't like it. One Silmaril in the sky as a star, one in the molten earth, and one in the sea. Shouldn't the sea one have made its way back to Valinor by way of the Sea-God? Maybe they're keeping it for the remaking of the world.
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Dec 20, 2014 17:31
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There is an explosion in Helm's Deep, yes, but it is attributed to sorcery rather than fireworks. Gimli and some men of Rohan are driven back into the glittering caves by the breaking of the wall, and you don't learn they lived until the battle is over. Gimli's helm is split by an Uruk blade, but he comes out singing because of the aforementioned glittering caves. I choose to believe Gandalf knew how to make what we would think of as fireworks and Saruman grabbed a few and learned the explosives part but ignored the 'is pretty and blows up far in the sky safely' part. Does anyone know of any decent fanwork that expands on Galadriel's story? VanSandman fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 17:16
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Effectronica posted:Specifically, I'm getting this from Unfinished Tales, which has a lengthy section on Galadriel and Celeborn as they develop and Galadriel is introduced into the Silmarillion. Tolkien mentions this in early drafts and doesn't explicitly contradict it in later ones, but in brief, his basic elements are that "Galadriel" is a Sindarinified form of Alatariel, which is Quenya for, roughly, "Blondie". This is Celeborn's pet name for her. Her birth names are Artanis ("noble woman") and Nerwen ("man-maiden"). She excelled in hunting, games, and lore in Valinor, and sought with her lover Celeborn (this use of "lover" contradicts some later Silmarillion stuff, which may be a misstatement or may be an interesting clue depending on whether Tolkien left any notes about his proposed changes for the second edition of LOTR) to prove her capabilities by going forth and enlightening the untutored of Arda. Feanor once asked for a strand of her hair and she told him to go to hell, but when he swore the Oath she went along with the vanguard of the Noldor, seeking a place to put her theories to work. I love the idea that Galadriel gave to Gimli, who asked humbly, what she would not give to Feanor, her rightful king.
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Jan 7, 2015 17:27
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SirPhoebos posted:When did Gandalf and company first come to Middle Earth? (particularly in relation to the events in the Hobbit and LotR?) The arrival of the Wizards was one of the events that marked the start of the Third Age. I believe they were sent to help the Numenorians not turn evil, and keep Sauron from returning.
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Jan 31, 2015 00:43
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SirPhoebos posted:When did Gandalf and company first come to Middle Earth? (particularly in relation to the events in the Hobbit and LotR?) The arrival of the Wizards was one of the events that marked the start of the Third Age. I believe they were sent to help the Numenorians not turn evil, and keep Sauron from returning.
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Jan 31, 2015 00:44
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Beren and Luthien would make a kickin' rad animated film.
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May 2, 2015 15:16
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MonsieurChoc posted:I like to think that the one of them managed to live through to the time of Lord of the Rings. Nope, all dead. Feanor was lucky in that his curse consumed only one generation after his.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:28
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Beren and Luthien is one of my favorite myths and love stories, to be quite honest.
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Nov 29, 2015 21:39
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Thunder Moose posted:A line from the Fellowship that has bugged the hell out of me, when Frodo is just setting off from the Shire: Driving is a thing you can do with carts! Sam drove the cart with all the furniture, for example.
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Jan 9, 2016 15:29
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Thought that was Merry? Could be! I don't remember perfectly.
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Jan 9, 2016 16:17
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Time Stood Still at the Iron Hill is just a good name for a song.
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Aug 27, 2016 22:02
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webmeister posted:Frodo essentially dies on Mount Doom anyway, he doesn't really do anything afterwards aside from making Sam his heir and going to the Havens (which is an allegory for death). After a long, fulfilling life of scholarly work (Sam works on the Red Book, right?) and peaceful political leadership.
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Sep 6, 2016 13:08
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Frodo pleading for mercy has always rubbed me the wrong way. Not the mercy part - being willing to forgive the wretched is a major part of his character - but HOW he does it. He says something like 'Saruman is a very rare and chosen kind of person and we don't have the right to kill him, as he was appointed by powers greater than us,' which is partially true, Saruman being a Maiar and all, but Saruman abandoned his divine mission and his mandate when he turned against the free people of Middle Earth. Gandalf broke his staff with pure will, after all, showing just how far Saruman had fallen. I don't like his argument that the hobbits don't have a right to enact what they see as justice. This is a man who has been oppressing and murdering throughout the Shire out of nothing but spite, for goodness sake.
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Sep 6, 2016 14:14
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Agreed! That's why it bothers me. Turn Saruman over to the White Council, sure, but don't couch it in terms like 'right to judge.'
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Sep 6, 2016 14:24
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I demand Elise shitpost here!
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Sep 9, 2016 20:56
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Roark posted:There's going to be a Christopher Tolkien edited standalone The Tale of Beren and Lúthien in 2017. Good. I love that story.
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Oct 19, 2016 22:05
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Harsh truth: Glorfindel was a lame character and one step removed from a deus ex machina and Arwen replacing him is a massive improvement, not just in terms of like gender and poo poo, but also in terms of narrative and character development. Having a major character's love interest not show up till an appendix is not good writing, folks. Yeah, Glorfindel was such a non-entity Tolkein apparently forgot he had killed the bastard once already in his unpublished Silmarils and had to retcon him (don't think retcon is the right word here) for the Lord of the Rings.
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Jan 4, 2017 14:50
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I liked the movies AND the books. I always read Fingolfin going after Morgoth as him completely losing his poo poo and pulling a Feanor at last: an epic, legendary, story-worthy mistake in judgement backed up only by one's own personal raw power.
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Jan 7, 2017 13:02
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I'd rather have the elf-dick lady personally.
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Jan 31, 2017 05:07
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I've always felt Hobbits were a result of mass interbreeding of Dwarves and Elves.
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Jan 31, 2017 12:59
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:Was there any homosexual element to Nordic/Viking societies - aside from homosocial bonding - or was that just a Mediterrenean culture thing? I mean I'm sure Vikings were occasionally gay because literally every culture everywhere has gays in it, it's part of the human condition.
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Jan 31, 2017 13:56
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The movies were fun, and literally any character development for Arwen is better than none.
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Feb 3, 2017 13:18
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Around dunedain, never refrain.
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Feb 17, 2017 23:13
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Abolish the monarchy, either in the pretender to Elendil's throne or in the stewardship!
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Mar 2, 2017 20:01
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skasion posted:It's a cultural trait, they're descended from primitives whose reaction to meeting loving immortal warlords fighting an suicidal war against a god was "sweet, what can these guys teach us? Also, can we have sex with their women?" I mean, wouldn't you?
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Aug 4, 2017 13:22
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Feanor would cast his practice-pieces into the depths of the earth, the overly-dramatic rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 5, 2017 18:43
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my bony fealty posted:Bilbo probably talked to a lot of elves during his time in Rivendell, maybe he took what ol' loremaster Elrond told him and got some secondary, maybe primary, sources from other folk there? Maybe Galadriel came visiting one day, who knows.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:22
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skasion posted:The way I see it Gandalf the Grey has mostly forgotten what the hell he is supposed to be doing and it takes the arrival of the ring on the scene to catalyze him into fulfilling his mission again. I forget if this agrees with The Quest of Erebor/Appendix take but I really don’t see Gandalf as having a master plan stretching back to the beginning of The Hobbit. He‘s a general do-gooder type and will gladly help the dwarves take back the mountain if he can, because dragons are bad news, but I don’t see him as working constantly against Sauron for 2000 years. I’ve always liked to think that the blue wizards who hosed off south and east did enough to stop the lands of the Easterlings from sending overwhelming reinforcements to Sauron against Gondor, but as far as I know there’s no evidence any which way.
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Feb 13, 2018 21:30
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I need to read the Lord of the Rings again. And the Silmarillion. And Beren and Luthien, which is my favorite.
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Mar 26, 2018 02:41
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:The main character of the books, Sam, would have willingly destroyed the ring. Because Sam wields the truly heroic spirit of the proletariat man. His (as written) subservience to the landed gentry does not change this fact.
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Apr 15, 2018 06:14
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HIJK posted:I think around the time the movie trilogy was first released some university in the UK did a survey to find out what people considered to be the best book of the 20th century. There were many worthy contenders but the surveyors were shocked to discover that the UK at large considered The Lord of the Rings to be the best book of the 20th century especially when a group of professors kept saying "But what about Ulysses?" I remember a similar poll. Pratchett wrote about it, once - that the English may nod and agree that Mona Lisa is a great painting, that David is a great sculpture, but dammit LOTR is a worldbeater of a story and they’ll defend it.
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May 4, 2018 22:44
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If you’re going to do the adventures of Aragorn, you kind of miss a lot of the innately good framing and stakes-raising that Fellowship has going for it as it builds to Rivendell.
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May 20, 2018 04:20
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skasion posted:That is a real bad scene but it’s still the best movie. Bombadil sucks and you know it.
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May 22, 2018 00:45
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Yeah the wights are cool and I love that they are barely explained as old kings that can’t stop haunting poo poo.
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May 22, 2018 01:27
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